Obviously I can understand why mysoginists are hated upon, As their belief is all women are trash or men are superior etc. But why are incels also generally hated upon? They are lacking in a way that makes them unable to gey in a relationship, but that shouldn’t necessarily mean they are mysoginists, right?
What am I missing here? I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?
Stereotypes. That’s basically it. The way they go about their dilemmas has left an impression, which isn’t unique in the slightest among subgroups of humanity. Especially as an asexual woman, I’ve had bad encounters with some, and although I recognize not all of them are guilty of anything, the ones that do make things difficult cloud the identity.
That itself would be enough of an issue, but then along comes Jordan Peterson. He is the choice idol of the majority of incels, and he uses this power and esteem imposingly. Without saying it explicitly, he encourages the idea that physical fun time is a human right to receive and a duty for all peoples to give. They cite him frequently and such ideas have shimmied us into a world where asexuality is somehow uncanon in reality, when it shouldn’t be hard simply to have a bit of voluntaryism.
There’s a crucial distinction between someone that wants to have sex, but cannot, and someone that chooses to identify as that. To really become an “incel” in the negative sense, you lose the desire to have sex because being denied sexual contact by others is part of your identity now.
People that merely don’t find others that are sexually interested in them can do things to help themselves, learn better grooming habits, dress nicer, practice approaching and talking to people, etc. Someone that has adopted the identity of “incel” can only help themselves by changing their perception away from the toxic void they found.
You’ve already had some great answers, but I’ll just leave another point here for you to consider - they are literal terrorists.
Not one, but several have used their “inceldom” in their manifestos before going on mass shootings (often targeting, or trying to target women exclusively) and many other shooters were active members of incel forums (and many active incel forum users who still haven’t gone on a shooting spree openly talk about going on one).
I will strongly second whenigrowup356 - stay as far away from these people and their spaces as possible, they are toxic violent terrorists, and you should not only not want anything to do with them, but also not let them convince you to feel sorry for them, because as opposed to what they call themselves, the state they are in is anything but “involuntary”.
There’s something very unlikable about anyone who blames all their woes and mishaps on someone else.
For incels it’s the women who have ruined society, for MAGAts it’s the left, for tankies and left reactionaries it’s the libs.
The one true facet stringing them all together is their inability to take personal responsibility for their situations (especially when there is any amount of public scrutiny, pride limits their growth potential).
I think it’s important that we define what an incel is first and foremost, because the word has lost a lot of its meaning over the past decade.
Incel is short for ‘involuntary celibate’, or somebody who hasn’t had sexual relations not out of a voluntary vow of abstinence, but rather because mental and/or physical factors have made them into an undesirable partner and have left them feeling shunned by society. This could be things like autism, personality disorders, physical disfigurement or major injury as examples.
Many people in that situation refuse to identify as an incel, because the incel community which several mass shooters like Elliot Rodger came from is deeply misogynistic and talks about women as if they’re subhuman. They also idolize mass shooters as heroes. So maybe incel refers to that deeply misogynistic sect of the manosphere.
But more recently, incel has become something of a catch-all insult towards low value misogynistic men. Andrew Tate for example has been branded the ‘Incel King’ for the views that he preaches, even though 1. unlike an actual incel this guy fucks, and 2. a real incel wouldn’t have the charisma to run a MLM scheme, cam girl business and an alleged sex trafficking operation.
Uh one correction, Tate rapes.
The claims that Andrew Tate is a huge misogynist aren’t even overblown either.
There are legitimately video clips around where Tate is visibly giddy over the thought of women being stoned for adultery. If someone is laughing and cracking jokes over a woman being pelted to death with rocks, they should not be trusted with dating advice.
An “incel” is inherently and unavoidably misogynistic. The concept of being “involuntarily” celibate is implying that it is the other woman (or man) at “fault” for not allowing the incel man (or woman) to have sex when the incel very much wants to. Being an “incel” absolves the user of the term of any and all responsibility for their condition and is basically an admission that they will never work to improve themselves or make themselves into an attractive option for their desired mate. It turns their target into a complete sexual object without any other considerations for their own desires.
You can be single and celibate without being an incel. That is just called being single, but open to a relationship or casual sex. It’s also called being a normal ass human being who can hold a conversation and develop normal human connections without viewing anyone or everyone as just a slab of meat to be obtained.
Great answer, and to add to this:
There’s a world of difference between someone who’s single, not satisfied with it, and actively desiring/seeking a relationship (single and looking) and someone who actively self-identifies as inherently doomed to be single due to the actions/perceptions of others (incel).
People in the former category NEVER call themselves incels.
Yup! It’s a self fulfilling prophecy life, and then they wonder why they’re so lonely.
Exactly. The issue with incels is that they actively do nothing to improve their chances in the dating world, and then instead of looking inward, blame women for their own shortcomings. “I’m a stupid moron with an ugly face and big butt and my butt smells and… women should still want to fuck me because I’m owed sex.”
Fuck these people.
I feel that your second sentence is too narrow. It goes beyond blaming a woman (or man). It includes society in general and/or any external construct or group. They may blame genetics, the patriarchy, feminism, or whatever other Boogeyman they want.
The underlying issue is that they are absolving themselves of any blame and refusing to accept themselves as the cause. It’s unsurprising that this very concept is often a self perpetuating issue. Their incel mentality and refusal of accepting any responsibility pushes any potential women (or men) from a desire to be in a relationship with them. It also builds an “us vs them” mentality that is reinforced by the echo chamber communities they build for themselves.
Yes, I suppose they can target basically any group, which makes my initial description too narrow. But I was focusing on addressing OP’s concerns of misogyny, which is gender focused.
The echo chamber is a very big part of it, you’re right. The more validation they receive for thinking that the “other people” are the problem, the more they think it’s okay to do.
This is vey true, they have almost as much as a hate-on for sexually successful men (‘chads’) as they do women in general (‘staceys’)
they’re just insufferable. the problem isn’t the situation. it’s the mindset they develop.
it basically becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for them. they can’t get a woman, they develop unhealthy views, related to self-entitlement, and they become walking red flags to normal, adjusted individuals, which drives their isolation, and then feeds into what they think always happens.
a defeatist attitude never gets anything done. being a person is, in part, about self improvement.
if your skills won’t get you hired for a job, you need to improve your skills. dating and having successful relationships is not much different. the problem with many incels is that they improve all these other aspects of their life (job, property, car), and then can’t understand why the other sex doesn’t flock to them. they fail to realize that hitting all these various metrics is just a part of the equation, but not the whole she-bang.
if you haven’t had a relationship, maybe you haven’t had the right circumstances, or met the right person. the trick is to understand not to necessarily take that personally, as recursive as that sounds.
Terrorism and mass murder. I actually lived near one, a van attack in Toronto.
Hold the fuck on. What?!
There was also Elliot Rodgers or something like that. He was an incel who wrote a manifesto about how the world screwed him over his entire life and drove him to inceldom. So then he went on a killing spree targetting women, then killed himself.
Oh I know about that one. I just wasn’t aware of the Van Attack. Should have been more precise.
Also George Sodini, who shot up an LA Fitness.
What’s the what? Go Google it
Must be this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_van_attack
The attack is characterized as misogynist terrorism because it was motivated by revenge for perceived sexual and social rejection by women. At the time of his arrest, Minassian described himself as an incel to the police and in prior social media postings, and described the attack as the continuation of an “incel rebellion”, started by the late Elliot Rodger.[11]
Sorry for the mobile Wikipedia link.
Denying oneself sex is an unhealthy practice for mind and body. They are sick people and need help. That’s it. To have a conversation beyond help is just ignoring the obvious and denying treatment. The misogyny is just poor mental health and lack of understanding about women and generally themselves. They’re just mentally and physically ill and refuse help.
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I think theres what the word actually means, and then theres the stereotyped version that maybe has more power, ie angry about being celebate, poor mental health, usually hates women because of it.
Perhaps involuntarily celebate and incel mean slightly different things to each other by now.
I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?
No, if you don’t hate women you’re not an incel.
“Incel” doesn’t just mean someone who is involuntarily celibate.
It’s a bit like how “Democrat” doesn’t just mean someone who participates in a democracy and “pro-life” doesn’t just mean someone who likes life on earth.
Incels are a specific subculture, it has a violent misogynistic ideology and has spawned several mass murderers.
Im pretty sure an incel blames women for not being able to get a relationship.
Its the change in mental framing from “maybe i should work on myself” or “i just havent had the right opportunity” to more of a “women hold too much power over me and are playing with me” or “ive done everything right, women owe me this”Wikipedia sums it up better than i can:
Description of incels
The subculture is often characterized by deep resentment, hatred, hostility, sexual objectification, misogyny, misanthropy, self-pity and self-loathing, racism, a sense of entitlement to sex, blaming of women and the sexually successful for their situation (which is often seen as predetermined due to biological determinism, evolutionary genetics or a rigged game), a sense of futility and nihilism, rape culture, and the endorsement of sexual and nonsexual violence against women and sexually active people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
So, unless you find yourself blaming/resenting women, then you arent an incel. Your still just figuring things out like tge rest of us!
The word incel has evolved beyond its literal meaning to refer to a specific subset of people.
Also I may be wrong here - but I think the term originated as a self-designation by a group of openly misogynist men? So even when the term originated it would have had that connotation.
Either way, there’s a big difference between someone who can’t get laid an an incel, even if the terms don’t reflect that difference.
Mostly the murder. Murder is generally frowned upon.
