I’d like to know other non-US citizen’s opinions on your health care system are when you read a story like this. I know there are worse places in the world to receive health care, and better. What runs through your heads when you have a medical emergency?
A little background on my question:
My son was having trouble breathing after having a cold for a couple of days and we needed to stop and take the time to see if our insurance would be accepted at the closest emergency room so we didn’t end up with a huge bill (like 2000$-5000$). This was a pretty involved ~10 minute process of logging into our insurance carrier, and unsuccessfully finding the answer there. Then calling the hospital and having them tell us to look it up by scrolling through some links using the local search tool on their website. This gave me some serious pause, what if it was a real emergency, like the kind where you have no time to call and see if the closest hospital takes your insurance.
Scary. That’s what I think of the US healthcare.
The other side of the spectrum is that in the US, anything goes. If you got the money any and all treatment is possible.
Overhere that’s not the case. Some medicine and/or treatments are deemed way to expensive or unproven and are unavailable.
I didn’t read the article, but I read your story, OP. Your situation sounds shitty. As a Canadian, we take our kid to the doc when we feel it’s necessary. We live in a rural community and we don’t have a family doctor, so that usually means a trip to the ER, but we consider the cost in time (ie, how many hours will I have I take off work), rather than money.
I think it would be fair to say that we take our kids to the doc too often. I’m not proud of that, but I’ll happily pay taxes for other parents to do the same.
Having to think about price when your boy is having difficulty breathing sounds dystopian.
If you feel you need to take them, it’s not too often.
I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why I’m happy my taxes pay for me (and others) to hit up their doc.
Same story here in Australia.
That said our hospitals are in a bad state post covid and needs a lot of TLC
My wife needed her gall bladder out last year the most expensive part of the whole week-long ordeal was paying for parking at the hospital. She has private medical insurance through her work, but needing to deal with the paperwork and all that from the hospital wasn’t worth the effort.
The fact that people have to choose between bankruptcy or dying of preventable illness is kinda like school shootings: the fact that you tolerate this at all - let alone having a major party campaign on “these things are actually good and you should be happy about them” - is pretty much proof that all of you are completely insane.
We feel lucky we’re not there.
Two main benefits/“public goods” from having your lives in a societal arrangement:
- Having an educated population allows overall advancements that wouldn’t be possible where education standards are low. If the protestant dogma of “work hard and you’ll get salvation” was still prevalent in all groups we’d still be chiseling stones as that is real manly work. Intellectuality is still mostly frowned upon in the US. The whole purpose is to work less and enjoy living as the benefit of having basic needs solved for. Access to free education has plenty of positive externalities that we aren’t even able to quantify. Would the US still be engrossed in its culture wars or other wars?
- Having a healthy population allows a sense of group and care for a country. Belonging to a country should mean that your fellow countrymen have your back in time of need. Father time comes for us all. How unpatriotic it is that people proudly wave their flags whilst letting their own fellow countrymen die from preventable causes or having to face choices such as living longer and getting bankrupt or let sickness fester until perishing. Not having free healthcare from an outside perspective is as unpatriotic as you could get.
The US seems a prime example of too much emphasis on GDP and limited focus on quality of life. I’d rather be homeless in Cuba than in the US albeit all wealth and quality of life indicators are better in the US.
I was offered by my employer to move to the USA with the husband and children to set up a local team for a few years and then return to Europe. Didn’t have questions about the pay, housing, nope. I had questions about healthcare. I usually end up once a year in the ER for myself, last stint was a miscarriage over Christmas with 6 ER meetings but I have a shit ankle and break various bones on the yearly because I don’t pay attention to where I walk. Add children: usual sickness plus all the stupid shit they do and end up in the ER for. Asked is the insurance had a zero deductible or something similar to what we have. Long story short, I didn’t want to leave our healthcare system and we stayed in Europe as all they offered wasn’t up to par with what we got.
Usually the jobs in the US pay better. I know people who moved from Europe to expensive areas in the US. They take their kids to the doctors all the time. It’s worth it.
Also, you can just go to urgent care instead of the hospital. If you are going there a lot, you just learn which ones take your insurance.
Just curious- if I get hit by a car and it shatters my femur and I don’t have insurance, which urgent care facility is going to allow me to do the necessary months of physical therapy I can’t afford?
US jobs need to pay better for the chance of sickness and bankruptcy you’ll face
The pay was on par with NYC finance salaries but due to social inflation, i didn’t see how it was worth it to move due to potential medical costs getting out of hand.
We wonder if that could happen to our healthcare services and what steps we can take to prevent it.
“Voting out Tory scum” is about what I’m left with.
It absolutely could happen on that side of the pond, and yeah. Globally we should be voting out anyone that wants to privatize healthcare. The US experiment has clearly been a failure for 99.99999999% of us.
On 4chan /k/ a while back, an American ND’ed his gun into his hand and asked the board whether he should go to the hospital or not. It boggled my mind that he was having this conversation and I am from a 3rd world nation.
One thing that’s different out that there is no such thing as not being able to pay for health insurance. You are required by law to be insured. This also means the government mostly covers it for you if you can’t.
You may have to pay out of pocket for the first few hundred euros when something happens, but insurance covers the rest. There’s no way a person’s life savings would disappear overnight because of a medical issue. I’d rather die than pay what I sacrificed 30+ years to save up for.
That’s similar to how it works in Democratic states in the US. It’s more expensive, but there’s no such thing as “not being able to afford insurance”. It’s required by law and subsidies make the premiums low for poor people. Although you may not have a huge choice in doctors, you will get medical care.
If anyone from the US complains, that they “can’t afford insurance” ask them where they live. I guarantee that state is run by Republicans.
I make between 60-100k a year, (sorry, I know that’s a wide range, but I rather not be specific) and I can’t afford insurance worth having. The only plans without a 10k out of my pocket before they cover anything at all started at $450/ month. I ended up with a plan that covers nothing until I spend like 5 grand out of pocket. Just shy of $300/mo.
But, I live in a red state, so maybe you’re not wrong. Private Insurance for healthcare is still an assinine idea in general high.
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Do they offer a Health Savings Account? These high deductible plans should normally be paired with an HSA, and together they make a more reasonable choice.
I’ve actually been wanting to switch because I think I would save money. I have a more traditional plan right now and it’s very expensive but covers my family for most things, with a minor copay. For the same cost to me, I could get both a high deductible insurance plan and fund an HSA sufficiently to cover that high deductible. In years we use it all, it break even. However if we don’t use the full HSA, it builds toward future costs
This is wild, in the UK, if you were in an accident and needed years of surgeries, it will always be free. The cost of parking to visit the hospital will be the most expensive thing anyone ever gets billed for, and that will be around 10 dollars a day. We do pay income tax, but lower income earners pay less or none. Theres also sales taxes, and things like sugar, alcohol and nicotine are taxed quite highly as they can contribute to health problems. But it’s all well worth it to never worry about medical costs. https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sugar-tax-revenue-helps-tackle-childhood-obesity https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/alcohol-tobacco
HSAs are actually pretty good if you don’t use healthcare. They allow you to invest $4K tax-free per year per person. You can use them for any medical expenses, including condoms, dental care, glasses, nasal spray, tampons, acne medicine, masks, sanitizer, mental health care, in-home caregiver services, and long term care. You are definitely going to use the money eventually, and you can invest it tax-free.
https://www.goodrx.com/insurance/fsa-hsa/hsa-eligible-expenses
For any people from the UK, “dental care” means a special doctor just for teeth. Yes, that’s a thing.
In the UK you can invest £20,000 (25,000 USD) per year into a fully tax free ISA savings account. You can spend it on anything you chose at any time, and you will never need to spend any of it on healthcare against your will. https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/how-isas-work
Dental care is free in the UK for under 18s, people who are pregnant or given birth in the last 12 months, or people on low income. https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/who-is-entitled-to-free-nhs-dental-treatment-in-england/
Also if you were to unfortunately become disabled and are unable to work, you will be supported fully for the rest of your life. These benefits are not based on previous taxes paid like in the US. https://www.gov.uk/financial-help-disabled https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-much-youll-get
Among the many problems we have in heading there is that vice taxes are implemented at the state and tribal (for tobacco) levels, so it’s impossible to have a consistent policy.
Cigarettes are a perfect example with a wide range of taxes depending on the state, and last I knew, sales on reservations were tax free.
Looking it up, I see
- lowest is Missouri at 17¢/pack
- highest is New York at $5.35/pack
That is such a huge difference: how do you turn that into a national policy?
You can also lol at life expectancy by state and see how each values its citizens
- lowest is Mississippi at 71
- highest is Hawaii at 80
How the heck can there not be an uproar at that life expectancy difference? How can some states keep following the same pattern despite such clear impact on life? Sure, a lot of it is likely poverty rates, but it’s the same set of policies, not just one particular vice tax
The UK also has much higher income taxes. Comparing US and UK income taxes:
- in the US, for someone earning 578,126+ USD (£457,000) it’s 37%
- in the UK, for earnings over £50,000 (~65,000 USD) its 40% , equivalent US earners only pay 22%
- and when over £125,000 (~157,000 USD) this increases to 45% in the UK
US income tax is ferarally controlled. I don’t have exact numbers but increases in income tax for the highest earners should be able to fund a public healthcare system, at least for the lowest earners in the US.
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/united-states/individual/taxes-on-personal-income https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates
Edit: There are also state income taxes, which vary for some reason, I’m sure theres also county and city based taxes as well, processing them must be a nightmare. Is the US just 52 countries in a trench coat?
Is the US just 52 countries in a trench coat?
It seems that way sometimes.
There’s variation between states as a form of competition. For example Texas might attract people by claiming no state income tax, whereas Massachusetts might attract people with 100% medical insurance coverage, best education, highest quality of life.
When someone compares income tax rates and claims US is lower, I really don’t believe it because I know there are many taxing entities that are all separate from each other. I have no idea what other countries’ tax situation is, but are you really picking a fair comparison, if your taxing model is simpler? I’m cynical enough to expect we’re probably worse off than a simple comparison would show
Frankly I don’t recall. They dropped on us they were self insuring with like two weeks of open enrollment left, I made a snap choice and bought my plan on the “marketplace”.
You can afford insurance and still go bankrupt.
“Medical expenses directly cause 66.5% of bankruptcies, making it the leading cause for bankruptcy. Additionally, medical problems that lead to work loss cause 44% of bankruptcies”
Blue state cab be better…
But these stats are concerning. More herehttps://www.retireguide.com/retirement-planning/risks/medical-bankruptcy-statistics/#:~:text=Medical%20expenses%20directly%20cause%2066.5,loss%20cause%2044%25%20of%20bankruptcies.
In Europe the US healthcare system is seen as a joke and medieval. Same for most social services I’m the US. Like somebody else said I stopped feeling sympathy a while ago.
Been in both the healthcare systems of the US and several European healthcare systems for many years.
I honestly don’t know why Americans accept their healthcare system. It’s insane. Everyone’s worried about healthcare all the time. People pay excessively out of pocket for almost no coverage. And God forbid you get sick. Not only will you have to deal with the illness, you’re also staring down a possible bankruptcy.
Edit: In Europe, you just go to the emergency room or the doc or the hospital. No need to look up anything. In most places you have a small healthcare ID card that you show when you check in. Many systems don’t have any co-pays or deductibles. You just go and done. Some systems have a small co-pay for hospital stays or other services. In Germany, the co-pay for a hospital stay is €10 per day with a max of €280 per calendar year. In Denmark, there are no co-pays or deductibles for any healthcare service except dental. In Germany, most dental services are included without co-pays.
If you’re an EU citizen and you need medical care in a different EU country than where you reside, you have a special EU health card that gives you the right to the same healthcare services as a citizen of the country where you are seeking treatment.
If you’re an EU citizen and you need medical care in a different EU country than where you reside, you have a special EU health card that gives you the right to the same healthcare services as a citizen of the country where you are seeking treatment.
Wow. EU, I belive in you!
I honestly don’t know why Americans accept their healthcare system.
We don’t have enough money to pay off our lawmakers compared to the healthcare industry’s bribes.
You pay taxes but get no benefit of them . They are used for subdivise automaker ,wallmart ,meat and dairy lobby and killing ciilvilan in other countries . I don’t understand why american are OK with that .
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It’s more famously going towards banks, ISP’s, and airlines… Basically all the things we hate the most.
I pray there comes a time when the people decide what their taxes are spent on. Could be done using a simple form, with a dozen or so broad categories to choose from, submitted with your tax return.
I bet the results would shock the shit out of the politicians.
I’d like to just start with having to send a check every two weeks instead of allowing them to just deduct it.
Make people physically pay their tax, that’s how you get engagement. And they know that, which is why it’s NOT like that.
The only thing that would do is make people hate taxes.
Americans already don’t include taxes on their prices in shops in order to make the consumer mad at politicians because of “how much tax they have to pay”, while it is just a ploy by the corporations to lower the taxes so they can improve their profit.
Society needs money in order to exist. Taxes are the best solution to pay for the stuff no ordinary individual would want to spend money on. Like road repair, firefighters, huge healthcare costs, …
I am not against taxation. Tho, I am against taxation when my government doesn’t represent me; and until I see studies, and enacted legislation that show public support influences policy than I will continue my position that our government has been coopted by an unfriendly occupying force. It’s as if at the macro level, we’re quartering the soldiers of our own oppression.
I hate throwing good money after bad, absolutely. And where do you live that spends money on their roads? Firefighters are famously and shamefully volunteer services and health care…that’s an institutionalized shell game to grift your life saving away from you. You didn’t think they’d let you keep that did you? Back to work, prole.
I’m from the US, and I moved to Canada for 4 years for work. As a young adults, my partner and I had revolving medical debt. Not a ton, but enough to make it annoying. A couple thousand here and there. It felt like I was always had a hospital bill that we were trying to pay off. When we moved to Canada it was weird for us because, just as another person in here stated, you just didn’t have to think about going to the doctor. I had major stomach surgery, we had a kid, we got monetary support for our other kid who’s on the spectrum to take them to therapy… We got gtube supplies, meds for infections… Anything we needed was covered. Not once did I think oh man, this is going to wreck us. Well, that’s not true, I thought that the first time I took my oldest to the doctor to get an xray because we thought they might have broken a bone, but that was just a thought and it didn’t actually cost us a penny.
Every time we went to our PCP, a specialist, or emergency, the only thing we had to pay for was parking and maybe a few bucks for pain meds. But each time we had to get pills it was less than $5 to fill the prescription. One of the kids fell and hit their head? Straight to the doctor. A cold that’s been taking too long to go away on its own? To the doctor!
Now we are back in the US, and I just paid off another medical bill because my insurance only covered a small amount of an ECG, because they wanted to check make sure my kids heart was strong enough to put her on medication, and that the meds wouldn’t kill her.
We should move to a single payer medical system.
I regularly fear for the Americans I have connected to since the days of covid stretched my group of friends more into online spaces.
One got beaten to shit by a bad boss when he tried to retrieve his tips. All at once he had injuries that kept him out of work, mental trauma and legitimate fear for his safety that meant he couldn’t return to his job but also because work and insurance are tied down there he was in an immediate precarity. He couldn’t return to work, the cops showed active disinterest in helping him press charges and his hospital bills blew through his savings… And because he had technically quit there was no EI safety net either.
I was struck so hard by the dystopian nature of it all. There is so much under the Canadian system which is just never a factor. I didn’t realize how free I actually was because I had never tied my considerations of my health to what job I chose or whether I was unemployed. I was used to my medical services bill just being this tiny expense I had set to autopay that was so small I didn’t even have to think about. They don’t even charge that any more.
All I ever had to do to get help was ask and it was freely given. I had no cause to ever question exactly how much of a blessing… How much of a privilege… that actually was.
Living in Europe, it’s easy to forget how much is covered by the national health insurance. I just had one tooth fixed, another pulled a few months ago, and getting a dental X-ray done in a few weeks. All 100% covered. My whole family got their COVID vaccines for free. My grandmother has issues with mobility, so the hospital sent a car to our house with her vaccines for free. I can just take a bike to the doctor and get a diagnosis or papers for further examination for free.
This is why I’m happy to pay taxes. I know that crooked politicians take their unfair share, but it also funds public services like healthcare.
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I saw a tiktok recently with an american explaining that people just don’t finish the course of antibiotics so they have an emergency stash. FACEPALM.
Back in the day I had a friend who ran essentially a fish dispensary and had a good connection on quality fish antibiotics. I would stock up on a bunch of stuff whenever they were making an order.
My numbers are surely off but I was paying something like $5 for ~500 amoxacillan, where at a rite aid or CVS you’d be paying, what $50 for 14 pills. The same ingredients, the same markings, the same thing. Just a lot cheaper for fish.
You think this is fucked. My son is type 1 diabetic here (Canada). In America people routinely ration insulin because of the cost
For those not in the know, a diabetic needs insulin constantly to survive. Failure to meet this requirement introduces a laundry list of complications that all end in death.
Despite this, they play Russian roulette with their lives not because they want to but because their government does not care about them.
It’s infuriating.
Also, worth noting that if you’re in the know, red Cross has deployed in America multiple times in recent memory. Something that used to be for “3rd world” countries deployed in the richest country in the world.
America is a failed state. People continue argue over the semantics of that definition but I will continue to argue it’s justified.
Isn’t that how antibiotic resistance develops?
exactly. :(
It is that pesky 99.9% effectiveness. That 0.1% that survived did so because they had some minor resistance. Rinse and repeat a few hundred thousand times and you have forced evolution. It doesn’t even take that long to happen in a population with the over-prescription rate we have had here. Something about the people in charge being undereducated religious ideologs who see expertise as a threat or fraud because experts make mistakes and learn from them.
Not really. Antibiotic resistance is mostly a thing due to how over prescribed it is, not from an extreme minority of idiots not finishing their dose
