I’m done, I’ve been banned for expressing a different opinion (without insulting or personally attacking anyone), I’ve been accused of evading a ban with multiple accounts (this is my only account I’ve ever had on any lemmy instance), I’ve had people selectively ignore my comments and accuse me of things which I never said, and I’ve had people ignore valid criticisms and keep attacking me.
Reddit has many issues with trolls, one-sided discussion, and just general bullshit, but many Lemmy instances are way worse. The newfound freedom of Lemmy has attracted many extremists, from both sides, and many of them are moderators, who are more than happy to remove any contrarian opinions. This results in discussions being echo chambers
one of the reasons i dont use lemmy all the time tbh. i changed instances like 3 times cause of random disappearances and defederation. the mod situation is far worse here than on reddit because you have like 3 different groups of people who can remove your post.
3 different groups?
Please ELI5 because I don’t know any better.
- mods of community
- admins of community instance
- admins of your instance
from what i understand they all can remove your post.
Is this an unpopular opinion? My block list on Lemmy is like 4 times bigger than it was on Reddit.
This, there’s some crazy people no matter where you go.
For example, yesterday some loon was attacking another poster because he viewed it as, anti-American. Suffice to say, it was not and he misconstrued what was said and he was humanly incapable of admitting wrongdoing. His response was to make burner accounts and downvote bomb the user.
My block list is extremely large too. It seems someone wants to make a community for everything no matter now niche it is. And so many random anime comms I have to block as I am not a anime fan. I get the message when browsing all “you have blocked all posts on page x” so often it’s become an annoyance.
Once in a while I search for communities I might like and subscribe to them. I then only browse my subscribed communities, so I don’t have to block communities. I think of it as white listing my Lemmy feed.
Browsing all and then blocking communities I don’t like seems like black listing. It seems like it’s a lot more work.
I would love if my app would let me block a community from the post on all. I do it SO often.
Connect has a block community and block instance feature, give it a shot!
Lemmy 0.19.X allows that.
Lemmyworld will update in March (forgot the exact date)
Voyager does, fwiw
i have said this before, but don’t have the energy to do something about it: a problem in lemmy is, that there are no categories to subscribe or block. like if someone hates sports, he can’t block all sports, but must either subscribe everything but sports (impossible) or block/filter every new spots sub or sports post author (impossible as well)
Lemmy is still in the alpha stage, but absolutely this would make a heck of a lot easier:-).
Otherwise it’s a continual issue - every month someone creates new communities that you have to first visit, then block, and then again, and again, and again.
It’s not that bad, but it could be better:-).
And it grows every day. WHY can’t I just FUCKING BLOCK an instance yet! I guess shitjustworks doesn’t fucking work.
Edit: there is nothing worth seeing on blahaj.zone, ani.social, or hexbear. Period. Who will rid me of these meddlesome instances.
I mean, I like anime so ani.social is nice for me. There are some interesting discussion posts and memes I enjoy seeing from there. But the other two I have often found the users to be difficult to converse with, so I have them both blocked. Its unfortunate that blocking instances isn’t easier (I use Connect for Lemmy on Android, which supports blocking instances), but such is the price to pay for Lemmys very rapid expansion in such a short amount of time. Lemmy wasn’t ready for that kind of growth, and it has the growing pains to prove it. The experience will be somewhat poor for early adopters, but the newcomers will have it a bit better probably.
There was a post recently from your admin stating they would be updating soon.
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Instance blocking is very nice, it was introduced in 0.19
SJW and LW are supposed to update soon, looking forward to it
More freedom means more spam and propaganda.
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I haven’t seen too many right wingers on lemmy. I think the lefties have managed to make it hostile enough to conservatives to deter the bulk of them
There are so many more extreme “leftists” that their beliefs seem to loop all the way around. Lots of people that want to see Trump win because “fuck America”. Lots of tankies that bootlick everything Russia and/or China do.
It’s not so much that there is a wraparound. Or any sort of “horseshoe”. It’s that authoritarians are authoritarian first. Notions of left or right boil down to what’s convenient to them as an afterthought.
The actual extreme leftists are generally pretty chill and supportive. Unlike authoritarians.
Yeah, it’s pretty funny how extreme some people are. Of course in real life they don’t say shit.
They probably do, but no one listens to the weird guy arguing with his reflection on the bus.
It’s almost getting too long.
I’ve considered going the other way, and only browse “subscribed” - but then I would miss smaller/newer posts & communities… so I leave it on “all” and block away.
I prefer tagging people’s profiles, not sure if that’s just a sync feature though.
Still get to see their comments, but it has your tag for them next to their name so you can prepare yourself lol.
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The opposite of totality is anything less than. Disproving you merely requires pointing out a single instance.
No u.
This is satire, right?
I don’t think so. I think it’s a metaphor.
No it is trolling and skillful disproval of himself, at least of the trolling part.
Wow 6 downvotes so far. I’m learning more and more about who’s on here
While Reddit is mainstream, Lemmy is populated by the fringe. The mass exodus didn’t occur by the mainstream, and people with moderate views. It was people with more extreme views from various fronts (privacy, anti-corporation, etc). If Lemmy’s and Fediverse growth continues, it will too become mainstream thereby attracting people with mainstream, moderate views.
Mastodon’s got some professional machiavellian gaslighters on it, I promise you.
Until some Fediverse portion grows spine-enough, and methodical-systematic-process-enough, to mitigate the malevolent, then they always will win.
That’s how Natural Selection works.
That’s why most natural/wild mammals are filled with parasites & things, in their “utopian heaven”.
We do have the potential to do better, but it requires a bedrock of spine & uprightness, of carefully blocking malevolence, & not-permitting it to own/torque our world.
I’ll not “hold my breath” waiting for it.
Considered-reason’s the toughest position to hold-onto, as ALL ideology/prejudice wants it obliterated, left & right, theist-religion-ideologies & anti-theist-ideologies, ALL want their ideological/prejudice supremacism.
The Great Filter, it is called: a world-species reaches adult-technology while still fundamentally unconscious-mind toddler.
Consequences are … “expressed”/enforced.
You’re spot on correct. Lemmy has become a safe-haven for both tankies, and right-with trolls disguising themselves as tankies. And if you find yourself responding to some of their propaganda in the wrong community/instance…. It’s an insta-ban. No questions asked or answered. No appeal.
It’s as bad if not worse than Reddit, but there’s not as many bots here. So… it’s a 50/50.
What lemmy has going for it, is that it’s new. I consider it to be in the formative rebellious phase and I hope things even out and the hive starts to become more reasonable. As things seem, it’s slowly happening as more and more of the kids that whine and complain about bOtH siDeS and gEnOciDe jOe are being downvoted a lot more.
So there’s hope.
You’re spot on correct. Lemmy has become a safe-haven for both tankies, and right-with trolls disguising themselves as tankies. And if you find yourself responding to some of their propaganda in the wrong community/instance…. It’s an insta-ban. No questions asked or answered. No appeal.
Ohhhh nooooo. Whatever will we do without your rationalization of genocide and blocking strikes?
The better question is, what will we do without your manufactured outrage?
Ive this one tagged as “Russian shill.” Theres a bunch of these whose primary purpose on lemmy seems to be spouting as much kremlin approved talking points as possible, often attempting so lowkey, all while projecting absolutely nonhuman levels of confidence. They typically show up with at least a couple alt accounts just to upvote all their “opinions,” and downvote dissenters.
Are you saying everybody who voted for Biden in the 2020 general election is going to vote for him again? And if not where do you suppose those people are sharing their perspective?
I’ll bet I know who it is.
Buddy, manufactured or not I’m not voting for Biden again. I’ll be voting 3rd party or write in. If you think Biden needs my vote to defeat Trump then you best get on Biden to start compromising with leftists and progressives.
It’s truly crazy to me how you all think that continuing to repeat the same tired arguments is going to change our minds. It won’t. It’s time to focus your energy on something that might have an effect. Try calling out moderates for refusing to compromise. Call Biden out for refusing to compromise.
Nope. I’ll be calling YOU out for crossing your arms and throwing away a vote. You KNOW 3rd party won’t win. It’s absolutely impossible at this point.
So what you do, is vote to keep the dictator out and buy us 4 more years to put together something better for everyone. Because this isn’t about YOU. It isn’t about what YOU want. There’s LGBTQ that’s going to get squashed if Trump wins. There’s women and their autonomy that’s going to get squashed if Trump wins. There’s Christian evangelicals that will be making LAWS… If Trump wins.
Get your head out of your ass and plug your Jose like the rest of us and keep Trump out of power.
Once that’s done, maybe start paying attention the remaining four years instead of waiting it out and only whining during election years.
The rest of us are trying to keep this ship floating for everyone. Either help out, or hop out.
Moderates are the major voting bloc of the Democrat party. They hold the lions share of the responsibility for how the candidate they chose in the 2020 primaries does in the general elections.
The rest of us are trying to keep this ship floating for everyone. Either help, or hop out.
If Biden is going to continue to block strikes and support genocide I’m out. If you want my help then give us a seat at the table. Compromise on some policy decisions. If the only way you’re willing to try to keep the ship floating is by screaming at people to vote for someone who refuses to compromise with them you have nothing to offer.
How about you just fold your arms and keep pouting somewhere else while the rest of us try and keep you from under trumps thumb.
How about you compromise with leftists and progressives if you need their votes so badly?
characterizing their legitimate complaints as with manufactured or outrage is just a rhetorical device. it doesn’t address what they said at all.
Legitimate complaints? Where?
this is just more rhetoric
Blocking strikes and supporting genocide. Is this the first time you’re hearing those complaints?
Not voting for the lesser of two evils leaves room for the greater of two evils to take root
The people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries voted for the greater evil.
Shit post, or actually an honest opinion?
If that’s an honest opinion, what’s your reasoning?
Not trying to bust your balls or anything, just curious.
Biden is a strike blocking, genocide supporting procorporate piece of shit.
Ahh, sorry I misread where you specified “primaries” in your original statement. No real mystery there.
I thought it was originally pertaining to Trump vs Biden. My bad.
No worries sir :)
Shout outs to all my homies in; l/ithinkbikesarenifty and all the losers in l/carssuck. I miss chatting will each and every one of you…
I think this is the new normal bud, at least here in America (god bless)… the Age of Enlightenment has passed. Find your corner and tune up your yelling voice.
Thing is, I don’t think anybody ever actually wants discussion or debate, we just all want to win our share of arguments. Sometimes with good open debate minds accidentally get changed, but that’s not what we show up for, more of a happy accident.
I think this is the new normal bud, at least here in America
We’re all living in Amerika, Amerika ist wunderbar.
Coca cola, sometimes war
And pork chops on Thursday.
I don’t think anybody ever actually wants discussion or debate,
I do!
No, you don’t.
I came here for an argument! Not just simple contradiction!
That assumption is often what keeps productive discussion and debate from happening, in my experience.
No it’s not!
I’m hoping we’re just pre-renaissance at the moment
I know the admin team here has been struggling diligently against pestilence :-S
And everyone says to just ban or block, but the problem is they’re brainwashing people that don’t know to look out for it They need to not exist; not for us to just hide from them.
Thank you for this post. It’s become unbearable and I felt like I was in a tiny minority for feeling this way.
My reasoning is that the people should be the “mods” essentially. If one community gets blocked by the majority of the people, then it might as well not exist. It will eventually die out through not enough people upvoting/downvoting, commenting, and basically interacting with them at all. The “any publicity is good publicity” saying applies to anything on the Internet.
If you have the energy to fight it, then fight it. If you dont, ban or block. Leaving the site itself has the same lack of impact against propaganda as deciding this fight isnt for you and banning and blocking. Change is hard
“Both sides” is a pretty gross over-simplification of the Human Condition.
I think it’s less that some instances are worse and more that people have consolidated into a few instances and turned eviler.
Hold up… If this is your one and only Lemmy account, and it’s banned… How are you making this post?
According to the modlogs: the only action ever taken against you by a mod or admin was having a single post removed. I don’t agree with the reason that it broke rule 1 though… I don’t agree with what you said because it’s misinformed, but what you said was not racist.
So you’re lying either about not having other accounts and evading a ban, or about how you’ve been banned or how often you’ve had content removed.
Modlog is weird. There is a possibility he’s been banned from an instance and that’s what he meant.
When I was banned from StarTrek.Website I had no idea. It didn’t show in Lemmy.world logs, only ST.W ones
Edit: Yep. He was banned from lemmy.ml. Funny enough, that should actually improve his lemmy experience.
As a leftist I absolutely concur with your assessment. The only time I go to .ML is on accident. And I’m usually down voted. Though I do get a good chuckle on the off instance I’m not.
Same experience here. Leftist who has studied political science and economics. I have very gently corrected some of the century-old, outdated leftist dogma on .ml and get nothing but bans for it.
They have pretty much been completely hijacked by right wing trolls, and it’s frankly incredible that the few remaining actual leftists can’t see it.
Banned from Lemmygrad Lite? What a terrible loss!
I couldn’t agree more (Also, for formality: I dislike you)
Anyway, this wrong loser is right: If you’re not going to vibe with the place, it’s not a big deal if you’re not welcomed. The beauty of the fediverse is that the admin of blahaj, who is quite open about their zero tolerance of nontolerance policy, does not have the capability to ban you from lemmy.
Like, if you were dating a chick who you weren’t compatible with, why the hell would you want to stick around? Accept the incompatibility and move on.
Seems like a pretty objective open minded comment to me, I wonder what they replied to.
I looked up rule 1 if lemmy.ml: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
The code of conduct is that of Lemmy org, I never read it till now and I’m very disappointed by the next part: “Remarks that moderators find inappropriate, whether listed in the code of conduct or not, are also not allowed.”. Basically total mod discretion, so by extension, “rule 1” of lemmy.ml also boils down to total mod discretion.
According to the code of conduct, there’s also supposed to be first warnings, temporary bans and the chance for repeals according to the code of conduct. Which does sound nice, but I wonder if it’s also done in practice in some Lemmy communities. It seems pretty hard to provide a system for this that is not based on happenstance. Does anyone have experience with this?
Lemmy.world has defederated from Lemmy.ml but even before I moved over here, I had been avoiding them on my old instance. Why? They were removing posts with no notification and had banned me with no notification or warning. What was the post? A Jimmy Neutron meme. “This is my first gay character!” “Disney, this is your 14th first gay character”. My title said something like “It’s always the first in China when they’re removed before airing”. What was the reason? Rule 1 of the site as a whole. I talked with another very heavy poster and he had stuff removed as well with no warning. Also had a dicey conversation with an admin. Just gave up and started avoiding it. I don’t think I ever got permanently banned from there (although I did from Hexbear for ‘perjery’) but if I did I wouldn’t have cared much.
I’m guessing this ban was on lemmy.ml? They’ll ban you for not sucking Xi Jinping’s peepee enthusiastially enough.
I think something one might learn over time from different sites styled like reddit and lemmy is that they are not monoliths,
There is a comment above that says the same thing, but in practice, think about it like, any give post attracts both people that agree, and disagree with it, generally strongly. The vast majority don’t engage with it.
Because of this the opinions seem both stronger, and more common. But realize that any given comment thread is a microscopic percent of even the highly active users, and always a biased sample.
With regards to echo chambers, this is why I personally oppose blocklists or how on reddit you can make something ‘private’. Pretending something that is problematic doesn’t exist does nothing to deal with the problem. I see this as fundamentally how r/TheDonald came to be, and reedit was fundamental in building the modern white nationalist movement. Through blocking and going private, r/TheDonald shielded itself from outside criticism, so that users didn’t see alternative view points, and specifically, were protected from open mockery. Originally the sub started as a troll/ joke but quickly became the defacto headquarters of the largest funnel for white nationalism the internet has ever seen. It might seem a bit over the top, but I argue that Trumps 2016 success would not have happened with out specifically r/TheDonald. Its why all of the ‘truth social’ and extended media took on a reddit style interactivity. It was the birthplace of the MAGA movement online. They morphed it into a self referential echo chamber, and used purity testing to filter out potential critics. Eventually it was banned entirely, but not until long after the damage was done.
So I don’t agree that ideas should be shielded from criticism. The problem with that is without criticisms, they can take hold, and grow legs of their own. But at the same time, you shouldn’t make too much of things when you see a strong binary online, because almost any internet discussion will be inherently polar (because only those who agree disagree with a principal or idea will be drawn to discuss it; 95% of everyone else just doesnt care).
This isthe take I agree with. I actually wish I could find more right leaning instances/communities on Lemmy - not because I agree with them or want to argue online, I just want to keep an eye on their discourse.
I agree, it is impossible to hold a contrarian view in a lot of subs. The mods and the user base on Lemmy have a very narrow range of their views than the spectrum that you find on Reddit. It is basically an echo chamber in a lot of subs.
The active user base is also soo much smaller that a handful of posters can be seen in certain subs. I see the same people posting over and over at a much higher rate than I saw on Reddit.
Yeah for a bunch of the subs on here I see the most common comments are the “circlejerky” responses despite being wrong or misleading but there’s no point correcting it cause the traffic is so low and it takes too much effort.
So are you posting good content to help the issue? Or are you just posting “contrarian” opinions?
I’ve never had a problem being banned and I argue with Tankies and Right Wing Chuds all the time (well I mostly just block the Chuds). It sounds like your comments are just bad enough to warrant a block.
I have detailed comments about how both Hamas and the IDF are bad. Here’s one: “Hamas is a criminal organization that is terrible at government. It’s Israel’s fault for letting them grow to be so dangerous. The IDF and Hamas are both bad for the people of Palestine and Israel.”
No ban!
Have you tried on hexbear or .ml?
I got banned for explaining the history of ethnic violence in China. Specifically when I brought up a quote about the dangers of Han chauvinism, which of course was called “reactionary”. The quote was from Mao.
Yep, got a ban on ML without even realizing what was going on and just for asking who people should vote for besides Biden if we weren’t voting for Biden. That was considered “reactionary” and “reddit” behavior. Was also cited Mao where he says that anyone who doesn’t fully understand all aspects of an issue has no right to ask questions–they literally believe that.
I didn’t get banned but got a couple of my comments deleted from ML. I don’t even know what they were but I don’t usually go back and forth with people in a thread so the mod had to go through my history and just delete comments from various threads that I had made on their instance.
ML is one of those instances filled with people who sort site-wide comments by new and hit F5 every 10 seconds all day long. They are literally waiting to pounce.
My mistake was trying to be closer to the devs, which would mean quicker updates. I had no idea that ML meant Marxism-Leninism.
ETA: I don’t actually have a problem with communism and more or less accept the basic tenants. These people, however, are no different from Evangelicals or Sovereign Citizens.
Was also cited Mao where he says that anyone who doesn’t fully understand all aspects of an issue has no right to ask questions–they literally believe that.
Yeah… Sounds about right. That sub likes to latch onto some pretty fundamental misunderstandings of Mao’s writings.
The real quote is “NO INVESTIGATION, NO RIGHT TO SPEAK”. Which basically boils down to - you should probably do some research before arguing with people.
Which on it’s face value is pretty generic, but decent advise. What it doesn’t mean is that you can’t question someone else’s viewpoint.
I think the most ironic part of this is in that same essay Mao writes about the importance of self criticism, and argues that we shouldn’t inherently trust appeals to authority.
"It is quite wrong to take a formalistic attitude and blindly carry out directives without discussing and examining them in the light of actual conditions simply because they come from a higher organ. "
That sub likes to pretend they spend time reading theory, when in reality its just an echo chamber that amplifies the vapid view point of a couple different active users. Users whom like to pretend that every bad decision the CCP ever made were errors forced upon them by the West. Even when it’s something like the cultural revolution, which even the CCP itself has admitted was misguided.
I am so thankful to read this comment. My experiences with them really left me feeling confused. It is good to understand that I was not alone in these experiences.
Imo they saw how effective shit posting on Reddit was for nursing extremist right wing views and decided to copy the formula. However, they didn’t understand that the motivation for fascist are fundamentally antithetical to what motivates most socialist.
Fascist are fueled by divisive propaganda, dividing and conquering your foes. While socialism is fueled by collectivism, turning your enemy into your friends via mutual support.
Wow. This is precisely what I’ve observed.
Yes, but… lol. They know very little about Marx, Stalin, Mao, or any of the differences between them. The USSR and the PRC only cooperated when they had to.
It’s amazing how “Capitalist” countries can have international relations based on shared ideals and “Communist” countries have mostly transactional relationships. Reminds me of college where the “Daily Worker” was the only paper that cost money. 🤣
Ok wasn’t just me then.
In my experience your views aren’t really contrarian to that of the majority of Lemmy users and mods. Your pretty mainstream and vanilla here.
Try taking a pro Israel stance or pro 2A stance and see how long it will be until you are banned even if you follow all sub rules.
Why would I take a pro-death stance? If you are being dumb, people are going to tell you. Welcome to the real world. Free speech doesn’t mean people have to listen to you.
Thank you for making my point for me.
Actually they pretty much drove over your point and then put the car into reverse.
Lemmy is getting bad FAST with virtue signaling in particular. It’s like the worst of the worst when it comes to things like that left Reddit and came here. So much tiny little bullshit gets twisted in to what a horrible a disgusting person you are and blah blah blah.
I really do like this alternative but… It’s turning pretty fucking toxic fast. I’m scared what road it’s going down.
I just had a discussion this past week with Lvxferre who convinced me that I was wrong and this is actually true, but I still think it is not equally distributed everywhere. Some communities are more known for it than others - in particular, Hexbear and Lemmygrad are so bad that I just outright blocked them, personally, and lemmy.ml (edit: I don’t personally know the deal with lemmy.ml, it just seems to often get floated as the name of an instance whenever things like “witch-hunting” come up, though I am not sure if that is an admin-level deal or more like users who happen to be on it, or what - or maybe it’s just its large size that makes it inevitable to come from there? at which point you would think lemmy.world too…) I put up with it. You cannot avoid all of the nonsense, but the fact that I am able to have a proper conversation with someone sometimes already puts Lemmy LEAGUES ahead of Reddit, where that just became outright impossible, near the end (even before spez ignited the protests).
And if someone wants to put in the work to moderate a place where we can have more fair & balanced conversations, I think I would like to join it? But I am not willing to moderate it - I did that on Reddit, and I am just done with that. If we want nice things though, we need to put in the effort to build them. :-)
