In the past few elections, voting feels more like a hostage situation than exercising my right to making a “choice”. This country is absolutely fucked if Trump is elected again.
It always has been.
We might be tempted to think that our Democratic heritage automatically protects us from such threats. This is a misguided reflex. In fact, the precedent set by the founders demand that we examine history to understand the deep sources of tyranny and consider the proper responses to it. - On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder (Chapter 1, Page 13)
I’ll have to read that book. Thanks for sharing.
Yes. That’s the end game of our type of voting system. You get two options and both suck.
We will get no progress until we get something like ranked choice voting.
Obligatory CGP Grey video about the inevitability of a 2-party system
That’s my favorite. I’ve watched it more than a few times
Which we won’t get, because it doesn’t benefit the right people
If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It’d be a start at least
This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn’t able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can’t check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you’d just have an unsustainable political yoyo.
Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect.
Wtf? Civil Rights?
Bless your heart.❤️
That’s far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising.
Easier said than done I know but if Trump wins my wife and I would strongly consider emigrating to another country. There’s only so much insanity one can take before needlessly going down with the ship. And if the calculus is that that my kids will have better prospects elsewhere, then so be it.
Fascism is on the rise globally. If enough decent people leave the US, we will fall into a fascist regime, and it will be the beginning of World War Three, with the US leading the equivalent of the Axis powers. No place in the world will be safe for you or your children. That’s the hard, honest truth.
With my partner, friends, and I being “degenerates” and likely the first group the fascists genocide… nope, see ya, I’m out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren’t in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It’s only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts.
You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go.
Agreed. We need to stay, and we need to fight to change the system from the inside. We can still prevent disaster at this stage.
You’re assuming that 1st world countries will have us.
Seconding this. Moving to another country without skilled work history and/or higher education in a niche field that would be of use to the destination country is extremely hard to do. You, basically, have to beat out a skilled worker that already lives there. The other option is to be wealthy and buy your way in.
A lot of people have this misconception that moving elsewhere is easy. Turns out, when assholes yell at you about leaving the country when you don’t like something, they’re not being genuine and more doors are closed to you than open.
And, if you’re asking yourself how all the other immigrants are doing it, I can guess that they’re possibly being exploited with by pay that won’t be a living wage and/or have a desperate situation back home.
Interestingly, I’ve seen a few people warn that, when poop finally hits the fan because of ww3, you don’t necessarily want to be the othered, new family on the block.
Take my words with a grain of salt, but reality might be much different than people think when it comes to jumping ship.
Good idea. I think it’s worth doing some research to find out where you might be able to go.
I’ll be in my 3rdW country eating popcorn
The problem is that without good people to stop them, evil people taking charge of the USA would radically change the entire world.
It’s not easy, but most of us have to stay. Maybe all of us…
I wonder if Haley is staying in the race betting that Trump won’t be able to run in November
Betting on Trump’s last hamburder
I think she would help Biden if she stayed in the race as an independent
That has been my assumption as well.
When’s the last time that hasn’t been the case? 1964?
When has a Russian puppet been the GOP front runner? This is bigger than politics.
Always has been that way
We need to focus on smaller winnable races. Unfortunately we can’t shortcut our way into the presidential candidates we want, we need to replace the establishment and build a foundation of allies to support it. I know a lot of us are in conservative areas where you can’t realistically get new candidates elected locally, but you can still volunteer for races in other parts of the country. If we can shift politics in the house and Senate the presidency will follow. It’s hard work but it’s possible.
It will be the end of democracy. Just like last time. Remember when democracy died?
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Also correct.
What fuckin crazypants logic is this
“Well what I have is way far away from what I want, so what’s the point in choosing the clearly better alternative”
As applied to this particular election, this is like saying “I want to climb this mountain, but the hill in front of me isn’t where I want to get to, it’s like thousands of feet lower than the summit, so what’s the difference if I jump into this ravine filled with lava instead”
Also what happened to that video call where you offered to prove that you were who you say you are? Not a right-wing shill posting anti-Biden things to discourage Democrats from voting?
I decided you’re obsessed with me and I don’t want to doxx myself by giving you my contact info. Go through my reddit history if you want. I’m not a right winger. Same username as here
Would you say you’re obsessed with Biden, and how it’s important for people not to vote for him in this election? You post about him way more than I engage with your stuff. And yes, I still think it’s sus for a couple of different reasons. That’s not obsessive, any more than noting from time to time “yo you should be aware, that dude at the bus stop seems like he’s acting weird” is obsessing over that dude at the bus stop.
Not doing anything to “prove” who you are seems perfectly reasonable, of course. You were the one who suggested that somewhat odd idea, and then fell silent when I said, sure sounds good, I am curious. But by all means, you do you, keep your privacy, that seems better.
Also, saying you can’t be a shill because you had an account on Reddit is like saying “I can’t have sand on me, I live at the beach.”
Ah yes, I’m such a right wing shill that I posted an article titled… ‘It will be the end of democracy’: Bernie Sanders on what happens if Trump wins – and how to stop him
Everybody should be critical of our politicians. Hold their feet to the fire. Always.
Critical is one thing – I actually was convinced recently by Ezra Klein’s editorial and Jon Stewart’s episode that there are significant reasons to try to put someone other than Biden up in the general election. Why is that? Because they made serious, sensible arguments and seemed genuinely concerned about the future of the country. They didn’t say grossly irresponsible things like that there’s no difference between Trump and Biden, or give reasons people shouldn’t vote in the election. They actually expressed the urgency of what’s going to happen in this election as a key reason why it’s important to take problems with Biden seriously.
If you were posting things coming at it from that perspective, I’d have no reason to be suspicious of your motives in posting this stuff.
Ah yes, I’m such a right wing shill that I posted an article titled
Yes, your MO seems to be a certain percent generically left-wing things, sort of the minimum required to maintain a fig-leaf of general political interest outside of your clear agenda, combined with a heavy percentage of just pure single-issue anti-Biden propaganda. Your most recent 10 articles show the ratio at 30%/70%. The fact that this is one of the 30% doesn’t excuse the 70%, to me.
I do try to post negative Trump articles too but then have to delete them as it’s a duplicate post already. The sub, or whatever they’re called, already has the anti-Trump articles on lock.
It’s not crazy, it’s true. Trump wants a full on fascist system, there’s no denying it. But we definitely don’t have a democracy. Corporations and billionaires run the country. That’s not even touching on the fact that most democrats don’t want Biden for a second term, but the DNC is going to force it on us anyway.
That’s not even touching on the fact that most democrats don’t want Biden for a second term, but the DNC is going to force it on us anyway.
Well, you might say that, but when Biden is winning with >90% as a write-in candidate in primaries where he isn’t even on the ballot, it’s a little bit hard to take it seriously.
There is no serious or viable candidate challenging Biden from the left in 2024, which is why Bernie is out here endorsing him. To pragmatic socialists like Bernie, electing Biden isn’t the destination, but the next necessary step to keeping the country on the right path and defending against an existential threat to our democracy. Don’t take it from me though, read what he’s been saying.
Ah both sides BS again.
“If the majority of people disagree with me, there is no democracy!”
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Yeah, it’s not fun. When the idiots vote to fly the plane instead of the dreaded experts, it is definitely stupid, but it is also democratic.
I’m just gonna stop replying to political stuff because I start to care, and then I get depressed.
Best of luck everybody.
Yeah. Can’t blame you.
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I’m writing in “free Palestine” for president this November thanks to this comment condescending about it
Why even bother going to the polls then?
initives
“Wow, someone online pointed out that the majority of people supporting two shitty candidates is still democracy! Because of that, I’m gonna do my best to make sure the guy who wants MORE genocide gets in office! That’ll really help anyone who isn’t a rich cis white conservative Christian male!”
We’re headed that direction anyways thanks to people like you
No, it’s people like you who will cause Trump to win. Not the DNC, but people who stupidly throw away their votes or vote Trumpnjust out of spite.
You’re either a shill or completely naive on how the world works.
it was hillary clinton’s primary voters in 2016 and Biden’s in 2020
… which, if you really feel that way, is exactly why we need to implement more democratic and efficient voting systems, like ranked choice (instant runoff),, STAR, approval, etc.
As American political systems are today, the only viable candidates to win the presidency in 2024 are Joe Biden (a well-meaning, old white man) and Donald Trump (old white narcissistic Putin-loving vindictive criminal rapist who doesn’t care for democracy and can’t remember his wife’s name).
I’ll be voting for Biden because even if you really believe he’s “evil”, he’s certainly the far lesser evil than Trump (for the reasons listed above and then some).
I’m not going to hold it against Biden for being old and white. All for moving toward equality but I’d be willing to give anyone a chance if they have some ideas (like an actual platform) and some drive to make some positive change. It’s more the fact that Biden seems slightly demented and acts like a prototypical old white man stereotype that worries me. Of course I’m not even going to talk about the alternative though, the choice should be simple here given the options but it’s a depressing choice either way.
Here’s the reality - it’s been 171 years since we’ve last seen a third party take presidency.
I repeat - 171 years! If you’re still foolish to think that this year is the year or foolish then to think that 2020 and 2016 were the years for the Independent Party. All that you’re doing is just wasting effort and time going out in the voter’s booth and voting Independent just for a self-pat on the back.
I’ll add that the only, and i’ll say it again, ONLY, viable path to 3rd party success in this country is through more democratic voting system reforms. (ranked-choice, STAR, approval, etc.)
Anyone who doesn’t understand this is either ignorant, stupid, or playing dumb for sophistry and manipulation’s sake.
Who’s arguing about the viability of third-party candidates? Your comment is a non sequitur.
Did you just charge in to try and sound smart by using a big word and asking a dumb question at the same time?
The fuck out of here, moron.
Which of those words would you consider “smart sounding” or “big”?
“All of them”
- That idiot
That’s what they said last time.
And?
Good needs to win each time. Evil only needs to win once.
It was true last time. It’s true this time. That’s the funny thing about fascism - it is usually a one-way choice. You only need to let fascists win once to forever lose your right to choose your leaders.
Citizens United needs to be removed.
The massive polarisation in the media needs to be addressed and the outright blatant lies told by the Rightwing goons needs to be legally stopped. ‘Free Speech’ my ass. They need to be labelled ‘opinion’ or ‘entertainment’ or something other than pretending to be ‘fair’ or ‘news’.
The massive polarisation in the media needs to be addressed and the outright blatant lies told by the Rightwing goons needs to be legally stopped. ‘Free Speech’ my ass. They need to be labelled ‘opinion’ or ‘entertainment’ or something other than pretending to be ‘fair’ or ‘news’.
Replace “rightwing goons” with “leftwing commies” and this is exactly Trump’s plan lmao. Do you not see how that is a problem?
What left wing media empire has spread lies so much as to be sued for hundreds of millions of dollars? This is not a two sides issue.
For Trump Left wing commies = literally anyone who disagrees with him
I’m not pushing it as a two sides issue. I haven’t seen anyone in the Democratic establishment advocating for media censorship like this. I’m talking about you, as an individual. You’re not a side.
I’m not advocating ‘censorship’. I’m advocating for standards of truth in news media. Unless it’s laid out as the facts, it’s opinion.
This used to be the case until Murdoch and the GOP changed the law to allow bullshit.
If you’re talking about the fairness doctrine, it required broadcast networks to devote equal time to both sides of controversial issues. It never applied to opinion shows, which are like 2/3rds of the content on 24 hour cable news networks, and it never applied to cable. You could bring it back tomorrow and it wouldn’t change anything about Fox News.
There is not, nor has there ever been, a legal ‘standard of truth’ for news media. There shouldn’t be. If you trust the government to decide what is true and punish the media for reporting otherwise, what’s to stop trump or the next trump from weaponizing that? That is why the first amendment exists.
I think an “equal air time” law that requires that corrections to misinformation and disinformation be provided at the same scope, scale and duration as the offending material. Since Fox news backed down on their dominion case, they ought to reprint every article, rehost every show and re-run every ribbon and banner on all of their platforms for next 3 years, admitting that they lied, linking sources to proof of their lies, and advising everyone that 2020 had no meaningful amounts of voter fraud on either side. Failure to do so should be fined at a rate of 1000 dollars per second of missed remediation time.
Unfortunately the law would’ve never applied to fox news, as it was broadcast only and cable was exempt. But even so nowadays so much of the information sphere is online, through Facebook, Twitter and the thousand different right wing blog news sites that you aren’t really going to be able to stop anything. The American system very dependent on the two parties having a bipartisan consensus. But after a few decades of the right wing media sphere whipping the base into frenzy after frenzy the ‘true believers’ are the ones in government now and the idea of compromise is done for.
That all breaks down though when you can point to foreign actors stirring the pot. Republicans are really letting other countries decide their fate at this point
We don’t have much of a democracy as things stand considering the average person doesn’t influence policy lol. If all hope is on Biden clutching it out then we better brace for the end. Dems had 4 years to plan ahead.
We did plan ahead, I’m sorry you don’t like what we planned but you were also fully welcome to participate in the process the entire time.
Damn you suck at planning lmao
Well, our guy is president and yours is not.
The same process that locked Bernie out?
The same one where biden literally promised he would be a one term president but now has turned around and is running again and there is no democratic challenger?
Yes that process. Sorry your internet comments didn’t work to stop us!
If becoming less popular than when you beat Trump and enabling genocide is planning ahead, then I guess it is over.
Sorry to hear you’re giving up but I guess that makes it easier for me.
What sort of plan do you think an incumbent president who has actually been doing policy should adopt?
This.
“Republicans are going to end democracy”
“Why would Joe Biden do this to us??”
Bernie wants to continue to support israel.
And Bernie refuses to acknowledge israel commits Genocide.
His words ring hollow.
Watch this pathetic man dance around the subject of a Genocide on two million people
Nice try. Go back to Truth Social and/or Russia.
Gets linked evidence
Screams incoherently about Russia gate and pizzas
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Your linked evidence shows him saying that he wants to stop supporting Israel, contrary to the first sentence of your post.
It’s a bit difficult listening to the interview with that YouTube guy telling you what to think, but it’s there if you endure.
I got you MLH because there is clear need for help to explain what words mean and MLH explains it very well.
Sanders goes on to say that he wants to continue to give israel 3 Billion dollars per year and does not want to sanction israel. Even when pressed on the double standard with Apartheid south Africa.
Thanks for the link. I watched it to the end and I don’t see the 3 billion claim, he kept saying he wants to stop money going to Israel. Feel free to timestamp where it is, maybe I missed it.
13:58. For more explanation you can watch the MLH video
There’s nothing “raw” about this video. It’s a fully produced and edited interview.
Did you just dodge the facts and respond with completely something irrelevant because you got proven wrong?
It is the raw video of the footage used by MLH so “raw” is the correct description here. Now respond to your claim of “Bernie not defending israel money.”
Sanders looks like Noam Chomsky in this picture.
Funny how many comments just went poof! Gone! So this place is basically /r/politics now? Mods smoking out every opinion they don’t like?
Funny thing is, the deleted comments were from liberals, not raging conservatives spewing bile and lies. Must not have passed the purity test.
My thoughts exactly. Why is it that these “politics” sites just end up going completely Left? Is this “politics” or “Democrat Politics?” I get confused… apparently, the Right isn’t allowed to have an opinion any where anymore…
You’re allowed to have an opinion and we’re allowed to tell you that your opinion sucks
Democrats are not left.
Does the right still have anything left to say that isn’t hate speech? The entire conservative economic schtick has failed the reality test so badly that most conservatives don’t even want to talk about it anymore. It’s all border wall nonsense, election denial, and reactionary isolationism now, and that’s the saner half of conservatism.
Yes. I’m Mexican American, family came here from Mexico, legally in the 50’s. Worked hard, and established a great life. We were raised in a strict Catholic household, so, ideally, my family always votes Republican. This doesn’t make us horrible people. We simply believe in different things than Liberals/Democrats. However, I’m also a firm believer in Gay Rights, Abortion, and social programs. But, I think there needs to be limits, rules, and restrictions on a lot of that stuff. That’s where most of my political beliefs start to lean more Right. Sounds like you’re just profiling based on what you read on Reddit and Lemmy. That’s like me saying all Democrats and Liberals are anti-gun, anti-religion, and hate white people We know that’s not true.
We were raised in a strict Catholic household, so, ideally, my family always votes Republican.
Political parties are not like sports teams and you aren’t required to vote for a particular party just because you were born into it. Anyways, there is no correlation between being Catholic and voting for Republicans. Also, Biden is Catholic, and Trump is not - just in case you think that’s relevant.
This doesn’t make us horrible people.
I never said anything about you being horrible. My comments were directed at the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, not the personal character of Republican voters.
I’m also a firm believer in Gay Rights, Abortion, and social programs.
Your Pope is also a firm believer in social programs. He doesn’t support Gay Rights and Abortion, but he takes a very different stance on them than Republicans.
But, I think there needs to be limits, rules, and restrictions on a lot of that stuff.
So do Democrats. I’ve noticed this tendency for people on the right to make these kinds of sweeping statements that sound like fundamental policy positions but are really so meaningless that anybody could say they support them. “I believe in small government.” “I am against excessive regulation.” etc. No real point there, I just find it interesting.
The biggest curtailment of the welfare state in the least 100 years came from the Clinton administration. Obama’s biggest safety net accomplishment was Obamacare, which was originally a plan from the extremely right wing Heritage Foundation.
You’re just profiling based on what you read on Reddit and Lemmy.
No, I’m really not. Again, my comments were on the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, so “profiling” doesn’t come into it. This goes back to my point about sports teams. My observations are also based on what I see coming out of Republican politicians and media figures. Conservatives on Lemmy, and especially Reddit tend to keep largely to their own insulated communities, and I don’t often visit.
Pray tell, these opinions of yours that you’re afraid of sharing publicly?
I think there should be limits and restrictions on social programs. I believe in tough on crime, funding more police, not less. I believe that we should be allowed to question the billions being sent to Ukraine, without being told we’re traitors and spineless. The Republicans are the ones trying to limit the amount of money we send all over the world, and for some reason, this makes them the party of the “bad guys.” I’m against many ultra liberal views, like allowing petty theft to go unpunished, allowing the homeless crisis to grow in California because apparently, it’s “not their fault.”
Oh I got it. You’re a moron who can’t bother to rub his last two braincells together.
Spotted the tolerant liberal!
So what do you think that means for mod bias if they’re deleting “liberal” comments on a platform that is largely home to leftists?
So this place is basically /r/politics now?
👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Funny how many comments just went poof!
Are they in the mod log? The link is at the bottom of each page.
Lmao, I gave it a quick glance and saw the most recent person I blocked for being an angry asshole get unblocked and then reblocked from an instance within a minute
The one who’s banned for the next 19 years?
Lol yep, thats the guy
Is there a way to filter by post? It’s hard to find anything when it’s everything from all communities.
Or maybe the mods are actually moderating by cutting out the off-topic arguments and BS threads that don’t contribute anything to the overall discourse of the discussion.
I can imagine most of the comments were 14yo’s and trolls saying GeNoCiDe JoE hUrRrR
By supporting a different Republican, how hard is it? In many states you can even vote in the primary of a party you’re not part of, people think it’s beneath them to pick a candidate of the party they dislike whose agenda is least-unlikable. There’s no law preventing you from switching parties on a whim.
lmao schizophrenic
They’ve been saying this every election. This line is the norm now. There never was much of a democracy.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that “this line” became normal at the same time the GOP has been enacting antidemocratic legislation and putting forward antidemocratic candidates.
at the same time the GOP has been enacting antidemocratic legislation
1940: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnice_P._Clement
1964: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Eye_(United_States)
1981: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_Security_Task_Force
From 1838 to Present: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_Florida
Were you alive in 2000? Bush & Gore were often parodied as too similar
Also, The End of History
It hasn’t been forever. It’s been since Trump started running, and the Republcan party pulled the Southern Stratgy Part 2.
Did climate change stop being real when we started breaking the record temp every year?
This literally every.single.election.fuck off with this whole thing.
Ironically, many of the kids that worship the ground he walks on won’t lift a finger to walk his walk, let alone talk his talk. And don’t even get started on any of them actually making it to the polls.
There too busy folding their arms and pouting over Biden.
Meanwhile, as Bernie said: our democracy at risk.
- they are = they’re
- they’re too busy
If you let typos be typos and focus on the point of the words, you’ll find it easier to interact with people.
And if you don’t think it’s a typo, go ahead and spell check my comment history.
Communication is a two way street. You aren’t wrong about listeners making an effort to look past mistakes, but you’ll also find readers will appreciate you more if you take the time to use clear language.
Readers, not listeners. Try using clear language next time.
On Quora there was “suggest edits” - we need it everywhere. Commenting is an ugly way to correct grammar. Suggesting edits allowed all sorts of improvements impossible to explain in a comment. Then the visionaries got fired and Quora went to shit.
God you’re insufferable.
⚡Smites you⚡
Oh brother… they say the same thing every time a Republican becomes President…if Trump becomes President, he’ll be exactly like he was before. This is just more fearmongering from the Left.
Well Trump did actively support an insurrection, I don’t know how you can’t see this as a threat to democracy in the US…
How did you get to this conclusion? What in the article makes you think that?
