I WFH, every year one of the goals that the rest of the team decides is that it’s “so great” to see each other in person. The past few years haven’t worked out but one did. I spent hours in a couple of airports, the huge expense for the company, I spent days away from my family, and for what? So you could look me in my same face you would see if we turned cameras on every once in a while? My husband says I’m being weird, but I legitimately want to know, what is the benefit? I hate being there and have to play nice so you can…look me even closer in the face?
look me in my same face you would see if we turned cameras on every once in a while?
Not the same as interpersonal interaction, misses much of the communication we evolved to express and understand.
OTOH, I’ve had a few Zoom-only relationships where we’re pretty tight, but that’s rare.
LOL, one of those is my Zoom rep. We email occasionally, trade pics and jokes. Every few months we Zoom and shoot the bullshit about our lives. She gets me the skinny on upcoming stuff, where my account’s at, what I might need or not need. Because we’re tight like that, she jumps when I need a thing, and in turn, I read all her correspondence carefully.
Another is a coworker, nearly my best friend at the company. When we finally met in person at a team meeting, we were tight. Boss was like, “Had you guys met before today?!”
Again, pretty rare relationships. Know who I’m really close to? The guy who lives here who I used to work in the office with. Man came to my wedding. None of those remote people did. When he needs my help, I jump.
And if anyone wants to poo-poo interpersonal work relationships, I will ask that person what they think of long-distance relationships. The conventional wisdom is that they don’t work out. (Yes, I know those are different. But how different and why? Think on that.)
Great post and question! Much food for thought as we navigate this new world.
Anyway, I had some thoughts earlier tonight, both pro and con.
I’m sure you have friends outside of work right?
That’s the part I never understand about people who connect working in office and with the fun of seeing others is person.
Why are you so willing to put up with commuting, office quality furniture, public restroom facilities, sick people who realllllly should have leverage optional work from home days or just regular old sick time… When you could just have more time for friends outside of the workplace.
I see my friends on weekends or they come over and we have game nights spending quality time with each other rather than infrequent unplanned interactions when we both should be doing something else.
My personal life friends are the people I “jump” for. Not coworkers. Having to “jump” for a coworker is and should be an inconvenience in the workplace because it means a failure of planning occurred somewhere. You can still have friendly camaraderie in the face of inconvenient circumstances but I don’t think you need to have some deep relationship to help out a colleague. That comes with the job to some extent.
When I’ve become friends with people from work, I invite them into my entirely separate personal life and in fact that is the case for one of my closest friends.
I just feel like If you wanna hang out with people from the office invite them to something outside of the office. The whole captive audience thing is such a demoralizing foundation to start a friendship with.
All of my adult friends I met at work. We all live hundred of km away from each other but go to our respective office 2 days a week. And on those days, we have lunch and drinks, they are my children godparents and we talk everyday. As a grown up if you move long distance, it is a lot harder to make friends and keep up with the older ones. You may not have a lot of time because of children especially is they are on the younger side. So your pool to get local mates becomes the school parents and work. It’s a lot easier to determine who you’d like to hang out with with people you spend 8 hours a day 5 days a week that the other mums you only see a few times a week as you all rush off your bicycle to drop you kid at school and have a very superficial relationship with.
All of my adult friends I met at work.
That’s crazy.
That’s not crazy. That’s life. Just shows how immature you are.
Or does it…?
Obviously some different life circumstances influence your options of making new friends as an adult. I can certainly understand your perspective there but perhaps it’s hard for me to relate since my significant other and I have no children nor do our friend and none of us desire to ever have them either.
I’m sure they consume a great deal of time and energy that probably drives a person to crave social experiences away from them. If work is the only place they can get away from them I can understand that too but hobbies can still be an option.
World feels overcrowded as it is. Getting a shit deal because so many others choose to have kids and then want to force people to spend time trapped in a box with them… It’s like a whole population of people having their cake and eating it too… Or whatever expression fits best here for an unfair, double-dipping advantage…
And actually now that I think of it, two of our friend group did have kids and we all drifted apart because they were no longer able to commit time and weekends like we did to each other.
They used to often say “we should all hang out again!” and such but then either we’re never available or had to leave early or host events at their place which required interacting with their kids and I gotta say toddlers are not skillful conversationalists.
I don’t have a solution for people with kids trying to find friends at work. I can understand why it might seem appealing to them but speaking from the other side, it feels like a burden I shouldn’t have to carry.
Honestly, our office has quality furniture and nice restrooms which are frequently cleaned and restocked throughout the day.
It seems like the difference in this thread is people that like their work vs people that hate it. It seems like the latter is in the majority.
Or people may like the technical side of their work but hate everything else.
I’ve seen people in technical roles that love to do technical design work, but they are middling at it because they don’t cross-learn from others nor do they choose to do the bare minimum in coordination before turning in a submission.
And we have written in the job description that the role includes cross-discipline coordination and direction of less knowledgeable staff, so it isn’t like it isn’t part of their job like they claim.
I like my work but I see my coworkers similar to the people I see on public transportation. Limited, friendly interaction when needed. Never consider your work colleagues as more than that. It’s creepy.
Depends on where you work. My colleagues are brilliant, I’ve made lifelong friends at my work place but then it’s quite a radical work environment so attracts interesting people. I’d be gutted if I couldn’t see them every week.
A “radical” work environment? What do you work for, the Red Army?
Not far off, it’s a worker co-op 😆
So why not hang out with them outside of the workplace?
Obviously I do, some of them are close friends now. But being around 100 people I really like for 27 hours a week is really good for me. During the pandemic I only went into the physical office once a week and it made me realise how much I appreciate that kind of socialisation.
Yep, I really enjoy my job too and I even work with some really good people but I keep my personal life… personal. It’s not like I hide my personality and life from my colleagues but I’ve got enough friends that I don’t feel like I need to add any more to my inner circle.
I don’t mean to say that the place can’t be nice but I would hope your home is of greater comfort than your workplace in most cases.
I’ve worked retail, office jobs, call center jobs and warehouse jobs. I made an office ‘friend’ in two of those jobs. One who id grab drinks with outside of work and another who id chat to via text occasionally. But as our jobs changed and lives moved on. So did we.
I don’t feel the need to be forced into social situations, people are tiring and there’s better things I could spend my time on that being shoved into a room with co-works who I have no interest in talking to and have no interest in talking to me.
Both my best friends are long distance friends. I’ve known one for 13 years, we’ve met up once. And one for 9 years who I’ve never met in person. And they’re the best friends I’ve ever had. If they have issues, I’m right there via text or call to help. Same if I have issues. We send eachother gifts for birthdays/ Christmas, or just because. The 9 year friend and I do a book trade and recommend eachother things we think the other would like (not just book recommendations).
My partner and I have been together for almost 2 years now, we live in different countries. And it’s honestly the best relationship I’ve ever had. Not because of the distance, we visit eachother multiple times a year. But the distance also isn’t an issue.
So long distance friendships/ relationships can work.
Just because some people need that face to face interaction, doesn’t mean everyone else does. Especially when it’s forced by a workplace. If it was to meet up with a friend, I’m sure it would be more welcomed. But being made to meet up with co-workers who aren’t friends/ close with, that sounds miserable. Being made to do something you don’t want to do/ aren’t interested in is never fun. Ever try get a teenager to clean their room? Often not very high on their list because it’s something they don’t want to do. The same can be said for social events with co-workers for a lot of people.
I think everyone just pretends to be honest. They’re a few fucking weirdos who enjoy waiting 5 extra hours for their delayed flight and having to rent a car to drive to some conference that could have been conducted virtually and all that other bullshit, but I’m fairly confident that most people would prefer NOT to do that and to simply wfh. Webcams are fine with me. I have friends. I have a wife. I have a family. I don’t need to see work people in real life. It literally adds zero benefit to my life. Also a lot of people suffer from chronic pain like back problems. Commutting and flying and sitting 8 hours a day in some piece of shit ergo chair from 1988 is literally torture for them. Work culture has no sympathy for disabled people. They can go get fucked. Work from home for life all you motherfuckers.
It depends a lot on the group of people, but sometimes introverts can prefer in person interactions. With online meetings, there’s usually one person in focus and that makes it harder to pop in and speak. With in person sessions, you can speak one on one.
It depends person to person, dynamics of the team, and the costs of meeting in person.
For example, this could be more true for younger team members who may not have a strong social network / a family at home
Yeah, I’ve met many people who literally have never spoken up in a meeting unless called upon… And then you meet them in person and they talk all the time.
Online dynamics are entirely different and it doesn’t work at all for some people.
But for most people it’s functional but much less so than in person. Humans were wired for in person interactions. Not just cropped compressed video of a persons face.
I’m the same way. I’m not anti-social, just picky with how I spend my time and with whom. I guess it’s more of a reflection on my job, but work people ain’t it – meaning I wouldn’t be friends with most of them outside of work. As I get older, I find that I increasingly put myself first and have less tolerance for bullshit lol.
Yea. Exactly. There have only been a handful of work colleagues who i actually wanted to be friends with. I’ve disliked or been indifferent talking to 95% of the people I’ve worked with.
Edit: I’m so sorry I haven’t responded in a while, I figured this post got buried because it never made it to my instance? Client? Idk, I’m still trying to figure it out. Than you all for the honesty, and I can understand some easily and other comments are just going to take me a minute to put myself in someone else’s shoes. You all have helped me a lot.
Its nice to meet the team, start nornal conversations not necessarily bound by work.
Getting to know the people in a way video calls rarely can fscilitate.
BUT how often depends on the team, the distances, the company, and most importantly how often this happens.I really like my WFH, but its not a full WFH job, so we meet for important events like sprint planning every few weeks.
But thats only 1-2 hours away and most of the commute is long distance train, so i can work that time and still get paid.
Its nice seeing the team and other people in the company i would have never seen, it could be a bit less for me, maybe once a month would be better…I also think many people only have their work colleagues as contact and little real friends to meet with outside of work… after all one is paid and theother time you have to maintain your life constantly.
Not to say that being in an office is better for everyone, and I think people should be able to freely choose a working style that fits them best. There are a few benefits of in person meetings and gathering, here are some I thought of.
A: To make sure You didn’t outsource work assigned to you to someone in a foreign country for a fraction of your salary.
B: To bring up the whole team in one place to look at something, and/or socialize in a way you just can’t over a virtual call.
C: To cross-communicate between departments more, and proactively avoid silos of information on multidisciplinary projects.
D: Meetings and calls can feel more transactional when done virtually than in person, there’s less ability to talk about other stuff besides a brief bit of small talk at the beginning or end.
E: Extroverted people feel lonely with prolonged work from home just as much as introverted people get tired out from being around others for long.
F: A manager needs to get more than just a verbal answer on something. Someone can easily just say “yeah yeah everything’s fine”, but there’s stuff with unspoken body language that can be gauged much better in an in-person conversation.
I think its the older generation, boomers and above. They always need someone to talk to
We do this sometimes but just people who live near the city lol! I can’t imagine doing a meet up where you had to fly somewhere and my company sure as hell would never pay for it!
Seeing everyone in person can be kind of fun because we can have a real conversation that’s not being monitored… We mostly talk shit the whole time lol
You’re not being weird. Some people like face to face, some don’t. Not everybody’s the same and to claim that would be naive. Unfortunately, there are more people who enjoy face to face than not, and most of them work in management: management is interacting with people --> you have to like interacting with people to be at least a passable manager --> the chances are much higher you enjoy doing that face to face --> management makes decisions --> face to face is valued.
Same goes for salary: management is there to delegate work --> they are disconnected with the day to day of workers because they don’t do their work --> management sees workers as less qualified than themselves --> logically never would pay those “less qualified” same or more than themselves. Management makes decisions so guess who gets paid more…
It’s just how things shake out. If workers become management, they too forget how things are and slip into the same pattern observed above. It’s just unfortunate how the human brain works.
The benefit is that there’s no practical benefit but they get mad when you point out that they’re just making you come in to sate either your busy body co-workers being terminally extraverted to the point where even just going to the bar after work doesn’t stroke them off hard enough, or to sate the middle manager’s wanting to squeeze you for in office metrics so the higher-ups stop asking what in the fuck the middle managers even contribute when the best the workers do is the time when it’s impossible for said middle managers to be metric squeezing them the entire day.
I love seeing my team in person, it’s happened twice since starting this job over a year ago, we get along well and always have a good time together. If they were in the same office as me I’d go in for team days if I could.
My life is lonely enough at home to want to isolate myself even more.
Over the past 4 years I’ve spent months at a time without seeing a single person. That’s not healthy and I hate being alone. The biggest joy in my work life was always getting to hang out with other people because generally I’m very lonely.
Now I go to the office maybe once a week because I don’t want to wake up more than 5min before stand up.
It’s hard to trust someone I’ve never met. I don’t want to travel either but I want to understand the people I work with in a way that’s only possible when we share space.
It’s work. It’s not always fun but that’s too be expected.
Agree. non-verbal comunication and body language, sincerity, humour, reactions and building trust are all things that are much easier in person.
If you can have that with the people you work with then it can makes work easier in all sorts of ways.
If I only ever have to see my team once a year, I take it as a win, fake it til I make it, pretend it’s amazing for flatter my boss and team.
Everyone would think I’m an asshole if I wasn’t positive and polite about the one whole day we are forced to eat fucking bagels together.
Some people really like in-person socialization. There’s something lost in the webcam only meeting. I’m glad you adapted well to the circumstances of the pandemic, but not everyone faired so well. I can tell ya I went a lil bonkers not being able to see people in person.
How you felt, going bonkers, is roughly how many introverts feel being around people. So, the three years that introverts felt good in the history of… forever, many of us would like to keep that. I just ask that extroverts respect how shitty the workforce is especially for introverts and maybe try to get their social needs met in their personal life and not demand that work time also fit only their needs. At the expense of others.
As an introvert, as much as I feel weird aroind people, I feel even weirder video chatting with people I’ve never met in person. In that situation, I have no idea how to read people and the expectations are way harder to try to meet. This makes meetings even worse until I meet them.
While I agree that forced in person work daily is insane, the OP is complaining about meeting people in person once after many years, which feels equally as ridiculous. IMO even for widely dispersed teams, meeting a few times a year seems ideal.
Some people do not care about reading people or meeting expectations of people at work. They just want to do whatever is strictly necessary to get some money to live, and then get away from the whole thing.
They may not care, but reading people and meeting expectations of your colleagues is pretty much a bare minimum level of functioning for most professional positions.
I’m a massive introvert and would love to not have to rely on those social aspects of work, but they undeniably make me more effective at my job and make life easier in the long run. It’s no different than physical exercise or any of the million other things in life that might be a bit unpleasant but are ultimately good for you.
Well… no
As long as you don’t get fired, there’s no need to do any of these things, if you literally don’t care what happens at your job, then there’s no need to be effective or anything like that. You don’t need to be liked, you don’t need to care what your coworkers think, you just need to do enough work that it’s useful to employ you.
Fared
We’re social animals, socialization benefits us. WFH is better overall, but meeting up now and again has clear benefits.
Just commented here, and the anti-social folks seem to disagree, even though I’m mainly agreeing with them. Go figure.
Some people need to be around others, some people hate it, some people are indifferent. Everyone is different.
I find social interactions very draining. While others find being isolated draining.
I think we are likely in the minority but that doesn’t make us weird. No one is normal.
Social interactions are totally draining for me, but I cannot understand a person until I had a face to face communication with them.
Same here. I am introverted and I hate social interactions. It drains me. BUT for me, after talking and meeting a person face-to-face a few times, all the rest of the online communication becomes a lot more smooth-sailing.
Thanks for posting that. I find social interactions pretty draining as well, and default to email or chat whenever possible, but your post made it click in my head that even a quick video call with a new (or old!) colleague makes later communications feel so much easier.
I find it difficult to put my penis in people of I don’t see them in person and I want to put my penis in people.
