Nah in a lot of cases the guy doing the bare minimum also makes more than you.
He’s a project manager!
Do project managers make decent money? In my field I’ve always been told developers make significantly more.
I would make more as project manager, but I don’t want to be on the phone and write mails with clients all day
When I was in college I learned I liked the idea of coding a lot more than I liked coding. Now I know just enough C++ to be able to translate dev speak into corporates speak and back, can claim to be an engineer, and get to talk to stupid people, who think they are smart, who think that I’m really smart, and I spend more of my day on social media. I had one job that in the six months I was there I think I actually did MAYBE 40 hours of work. If it wasn’t for “business conditions related to COVID-19” I’d probably still work there, though I’m making more, and working somewhat more, now.
May I ask what your field is? I am in software development.
Industrial automation
looks around barley, I think? 🤷
Ha. Ha. Ha. Lol, sort of
I would rather set myself on fire than to look at budgets, billable rates, timesheets, or talk to people.
I’m hardore technically aligned, and far enough along in my career (and at a good enough company) that I can turn down opportunities to PM.
Look at this fat cat who can turn down opportunities over here!
He’s such a dick
developers SHOULD make more, but in my experience they don’t. I suspect part of this is because the people that make the salary decisions frequently talk to the PM so they know he’s valuable, but the devs even if he has talked to them he likley doesn’t have a relationship with them, and sees them primarily as a number of spreadsheet that can be replaced with less expensive developing nation devlopers anytime the stock price goes down (or in my case went up but they thought it was going to go down, so they went ahead and laid off 1,000 devs in the States anyway, promising to hire 3,000 Indian devs in their place, and then not actually doing that even, which made the stock price go up again)
Every time I’ve been promoted I’ve made more money and done less work. At this rate I’ll be 9-5 on the golf course in a few years making $500k/yr.
Kidding. Golf blows.
Whoa there friend, let’s not disparage the game just because of its association with capitalist pigs and blowhards.
I like mini golf. Good use of land competitively. If CEOs met in the mini golf course I think the world would be in a better place.
More interesting too
Just misses riding the cart
Golf cart racing track! Adjacent to the mini golf
Free golf for everyone!
Can I disparage it for it’s ecological impact?
Fair
The real payment is all the traumas we got along the overtimes
Hah! You got overtime? I just got trama and toxic managers.
In a better spot now, though
Unpaid overtime probably (which would be a hard no from me)
We got straight banked time off in-lieu. It was bullshit.
Yeah, that’s a crock. My first corporates job did that to us, and then never approved the paid vacation requests, let-a-lone the banked time-off we were promised for being such good cubicle slaves working above and beyond, and it is all legal because “exempt salary employee”
Hah, cubicle. Not to shit on you, but that would have been much preferable to my situation. Seasonal environmental field work - 300ish hrs a month from May to November
True, but better than the places that expect it for nothing in return
At my previous job they had a special term for unpaid overtime: “Professional time”
So glad I’m no longer working there.
“Professional time” sounds like a euphemism for wanking off on the clock.
Later on: the employee who does extra work will make the employee who does the bare minimum getting fired, but he doesn’t get a wage increase. He will however complain about “lazy” people like immigrants, the disabled, etc. instead.
Going the extra mile is a good way to never get promoted because you are too valuable in your current position.
Bro, I’m salaried and only really need to work six hours a day. So that’s exactly what I do. My coworkers put in 12-14 hours a day six days a week… We get the same paycheck.
Granted, I’m consistently rated at the bottom of my department by my supervisors, but I’m also the most highly requested employee by our customers. Literally no one else gets requested by name and I have to triage projects.
Why do you think there is so much disparity between your bosses and your clients?
I show up late and leave early and don’t participate in the “work culture” stuff, this makes my employer upset.
I get requested because I’m the best at my job and the customers talk to each other. I’ve had clients from other employees ask to switch to me but that’s not allowed by policy. The best I can do is look at the work they’re receiving and give feedback.
Sounds like shitty management.
It’s crabs in a bucket and they’re mad I won’t get in the water. I’m paid well and they mostly leave me alone. They’ve only once fucked up my career once by bad-mouthing me to a department I tried to transfer to in order to learn a new skill.
Crabs in a bucket makes sense for the staff, but not the management. Management should be judging with outputs in mind.
See I’m salary but I’m forced to put in 8 hrs a day. Even if I have no work to do. It sucks.
That’s horrible. What’s the point of salary if you have an hourly requirement? That sounds like fake hourly.
The point of Salary is so they don’t have to pay for overtime. The slave labor is the purpose, forcing people to work more than 8 is just a nice little cherry on top ☺️.
Boom shakalaka. He shoots he scores.
This is the answer. I worked for a company before the law changed where “managers have to work 60 hours a week”. You know why? Because those last 20 hours made them half of what they would have had to pay someone else. Somehow people fell for it though. “It’s a guaranteed paycheck if I git sick. It’ll work out, won’t it?”
Nope.
It ain’t for you boo boo.
Having a one way street that can only work for them seems like some serious bullshit. I’m glad we don’t track our time where I work. If I had mandatory hours I’d insist on hourly rates.
do you have any other advice? they got us going back to the mines soon with no additional pay, no parking, and no bus passes. so I’m looking to adjust accordingly
Honestly, if you have time and are risk tolerant, going to flight school is a great career at the moment. You take on $200k in debt though.
I’m consistently rated at the bottom of my department by my supervisors
Unless you miss out on raises or promotions because of this or lose your job, this is meaningless. It’s “this will go on your permanent record” but for adults. This is coming from somebody who is pretty proudly the quiet worker who stays around the middle of the pack and does just enough to keep things slightly better than just maintained, so both coworkers and bosses can objectively see that I’m neither making things worse nor just keeping things coasting. And I got a promotion last year, so I guess it’s the right strategy (here, anyway) lol.
Yep, they’re only middle management as far as the company is concerned I’m still competitive for corporate level promotions and my “bad” reputation will stay back in my current office. I’m gunning for a promotion next summer, so hopefully these dingbats will be in my rearview mirror next year.
Good luck and Godspeed! Write down every recent and upcoming success so you can cite objective improvements in your interviews/meetings. Customer feedback will help too. If you have any big clients who can vouch for you personally being the reason that your company kept their business, even better. The only risk there is that they may decide that you’re too valuable in your current role, but you can get ahead of that by pitching that you’ll be able to apply your success to bigger wins in a higher role and guide others to learn how to do what you’ve done. Worst case scenario, you don’t get that promotion but you still have it all compiled for interviews elsewhere. If you want to be at the level of that promotion, you should chase it whether it’s within the company or without! You got this!
Profit sharing fixes all of this because it provides incentives for everyone to go the extra mile so they can make more money.
Yeah, but those profits could go to the shareholders!
If you see me going the extra mile, it’s probably the side-effects of me using the company’s resources to learn and do crazy experiments for my own gain.
“But you could get bonuses each pay period up to $100”… which after taxes comes to about $60, after union dues $58. Extra stress and work that makes you more than $100k more a year is not worth $720/yr to me thank you. Give me percentage and we’ll talk.
“Okay but the guy who goes the extra mile will get a promotion and do better in the long run.” —a guy who has always gone the extra mile, never gotten a promotion and is doing exactly the same as everyone else
I got a new job last year. It was a massive pay cut. 1/3 of what i was making. Skip to the end for a TL/DR.
I hit the ceiling hard at the old job and people i had never worked with or worked with only a handful of times had basically all said i was uncomfortable to work with because of my pace. I’m a walk and talk guy and if i was hired for a job (I’m a long term contact worker) I was usually hired because someone else had started a project and here i am. I was a fuckin one man wrecking crew. I work amazingly well with just about everyone because i find their strengths and weaknesses and immediately (and usually subtly) just start with the weakness, get the ball rolling and by the time there’s momentum they are back in their comfort zone. Aim them and let em go. I work with management, i work with operators and I’ve worked with janitorial staff to solve really shitty problems quickly and mostly painlessly. Apparently that means I’m doing jobs other people should be doing (eg currently and actively employed) which rubs them the wrong way. I’m contact, dgaf. That’s a wall of text bitches.
TL/DR i know it’s easy to say money isn’t everything but it can definitely be a trap that promotes some bad/unsustainable life choices. Recognize its unsustainable and have a plan.
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Some people are passionate about always doing the best they can, and they get a great deal of satisfaction from it. I love being excellent at what I do.
I don’t have a wife or kids. My jobs are a huge part of my identity. Heck - my night job teaching is something I do because I want to do it, not for the little bit of extra money.
But I also know that I’m weird. Most people just want to do their job and go home to their families, and that’s great. They’re doing the job, so they should be compensated every bit as much as the people like me who are devoted to their work.
I inderstand fully. I used ti go through the same. At the same time I noticed a big difference when i got married. And a huge one when i had kids. Having a child and being responsible for it is a life changing situation. I tell my self that i became an adult not when i turned 18 but when i became a parent. When this happened to me, my perspective about work stoped revolving about being the best, and turbed to be just and help others be better. That made me soon to realize that those 2 cannot get always together.
Tldr: work 2 live > live 2 work
Nah, I get it. I’m much the same way - I don’t do things half assed - just not made that way.
That said, I’m also not going to eat the corporate brainwashing gruel. The higher up you go the more you see people just flat accept stupid corporate decisions as ‘enlightened’ and they heavily adopt the corporate lexicon. Who needs a critical eye when you fit in?
Fuck that noise.
While I realize there are rules, structures, and culture in place. They shouldn’t hinder people. IDGAF about how someone does something as long as the product is technically sound, reads like Tolstoy, and was efficiently created.
I work a shit ton of OT, but I get paid 1.5x or 2x based on circumstances for that extra time
I deliver the same quality of work on ST and OT—my best, but I would never work unpaid OT (e.g. some of my salaried engineers have been living at the job during our system upgrades) or do things well beyond the scope of my job.
Fuck that
One of my 1st employers had “extra mile” coupons. Originally worth 7.50 in store credit, then 5, then they disappeared. This was a company that was charging 6 dollars for asparagus water.
Asparagus water?
yea just throw some leftover asparagus in some water and see if yuppies buy it for 6 bucks (16oz).
hwhat.
Asparagus is expensive - I got a 6 pack of NoName hotdogs that’s been in my fridge for over a month- brb…
Do you have any starfish and chocolate, per chance?
I don’t go the extra mile for the company. I do it to help make things easier for my coworkers and the people who depend on us in the hope that I can make life a little less shitty for everyone.
I have 40 hours a week at work.
I spend them trying to do a good job.
I have no fucking clue what people mean when they say they go the extra mile.
Sometimes it’s as small as clean up your work area for the next guy. That’s seen as the extra mile for lazy people.
I think most people would consider things like, working over 40 hours when you are salaried, routinely doing someone else’s job in addition to yours (like fixing their mistakes TOO much), skipping your lunch breaks to work.
Don’t get me wrong, doing those things SOMETIMES is ok. It’s when it becomes expected or ongoing that it’s a problem. Because no company is ever going to say “You are generating more profit for us at your own expense, slow down.”
I do a little extra because I know my other coworkers fuckin’ won’t. I tell my new hires that you’re not working for the other shift but rather for when it’s your shift again.
The thing is, it is not your job to make things easier for others.
It’s the company’s job to keep their employees happy by providing enough workforce for the amount of work that needs to be done.
You are doing exactly what the company wants you to do, by playing into your emotions.
Just so they don’t have to.
Sorry, but that’s ad hominem, Appeal to authority, Appeal to emotion, Appeal to nature, Appeal to tradition, Bandwagon fallacy, Circular reasoning, False dilemma, Hasty generalization, Red herring, Slippery slope, Straw man, Tu quoque, Ad populum, Appeal to ignorance, Cherry picking, False cause, Genetic fallacy, Middle ground fallacy, No true Scotsman, Personal incredulity, Texas sharpshooter, Two wrongs make a right, The purple elephant fallacy, Argumentum ad unicornum, Appeal to the invisible hand, Fallacy of misplaced eyebrows, Circular circumstantial reasoning, Argumentum ad quantum fluctuation, Argumentum ad intergalactic authority, Fallacy of arbitrary sock selection, Appeal to ancestral cheese, Argumentum ad cosmic latte, Fallacy of the floating banana, Argumentum ad mythical creatures, Appeal to the lost sock phenomenon, Argumentum ad celestial alignment, Fallacy of the inverted teapot, Argumentum ad lunar phase, Appeal to the cosmic muffin, Fallacy of the interstellar leap, Argumentum ad parallel universe, Appeal to the intergalactic council, Fallacy of extraterrestrial explanation, Argumentum ad space-time continuum, Appeal to the cosmic coincidence, Fallacy of the quantum leapfrog, Argumentum ad extraterrestrial intervention, Appeal to the cosmic conundrum, Fallacy of the cosmic caterpillar, Argumentum ad celestial consensus, Appeal to the cosmic kaleidoscope, Fallacy of the interdimensional leap, Argumentum ad celestial arbitrage, Appeal to the cosmic chaos theory, Fallacy of the astral alignment, Argumentum ad celestial coincidence, Appeal to the cosmic cluster, Fallacy of the celestial serendipity, Argumentum ad cosmic correlation, Appeal to the cosmic conjunction, Fallacy of the galactic grandeur, Argumentum ad cosmic equilibrium, Appeal to the cosmic carnival, Argumentum ad celestial charisma, Appeal to the cosmic chaos, Fallacy of the astral absurdity, Argumentum ad celestial authority, Appeal to the cosmic confluence, Fallacy of the celestial singularity, Argumentum ad cosmic consensus, Appeal to the cosmic collision, Fallacy of the galactic gambit, Argumentum ad cosmic contradiction, Appeal to the cosmic chameleon, Fallacy of the celestial symphony, Argumentum ad cosmic curiosity, Appeal to the cosmic continuum, Fallacy of the astral anomaly, Argumentum ad celestial equilibrium, Appeal to the cosmic carnival, Fallacy of the galactic gamble, Argumentum ad celestial consensus, Appeal to the cosmic charisma, Fallacy of the astral anomaly, Argumentum ad celestial symmetry, Appeal to the cosmic coincidence, Fallacy of the celestial serendipity, Argumentum ad cosmic correlation, Appeal to the cosmic conjunction, Fallacy of the galactic grandeur, Argumentum ad cosmic equilibrium, Appeal to the cosmic carnival.
This is exactly the kind of moronic attitude that is making life shittier and shittier for everyone on the fucking planet.
I am not talking about just cranking out extra widgets or whatever. I’m talking about looking for problems and taking steps to resolve them before they escalate into something worse instead of just leaving it for someone else to do, I’m talking about taking time to answer questions for my coworkers so they don’t waste an hour trying to figure things out on their own, I’m talking about collecting data on issues we’re having so that when I take it to the boss I have numbers to back up what I’m saying instead of just generic bitching about the job so that they will actually take it into account and look for solutions.
Not true in my experience, both as employee and employer
Hard work is rewarded with additional responsibilities and tasks for no additional benefit. What is the point?
that’s why I outsource the work to other parts of the world for a cheaper price. They will do it better, cheaper, faster and won’t whine about.
Exploitation, yeah!
