So I made a comment on worldnews criticizing Chinese activity in the south china sea and apparently got banned for it by the automod. This happen to anyone else? Is this Lemmy’s version of the need help post and the shape of things to come?
The instance I posted in was Lemmy.ml
The Thread you posted to was https://apnews.com/article/malaysia-china-australia-anwar-ibrahim-b4d75a8423b5265bec1a05d69231965f
and you dismissed all the other guys in the thread posting nuance with this vibes-based comment:
Based on what china is doing to fishing and military boats from the Philippines, I doubt they’re just after ‘transit’. They’re making a territorial claim. Not much different from Russia’s claim on Ukraine, except that its happening in international waters.
Your account is 4 days old. No one cares what color yankee you are mate.
take the L, read more, and maybe don’t only believe western narrative, and you’ll do just fine. Youll even learn something.
I reccommend you stick around and read things that challenge your worldview. you dont have to believe everything you read, but you should always critically analyze yourself and your position, just in case.
Their comment is perfectly innocuous. Unless they require college level debate and citations for every comment, there’s nothing wrong with it.
Criticizing a government for taking an imperial action should never be forbidden. And make no mistake, China’s neighbors there certainly seem to feel like China is significantly overreaching.
While I appreciate challenging my worldview, the issue with Lemmy.ml is the users who tend to uncritically accept Russian and Chinese propaganda, and many are very hostile to outside perspectives. If there were open and good faith discussion I think it would be of more value, but instead they just ban anyone with outside perspectives. This type of “discussion” has little to contribute to the broader community.
On this specific issue I really haven’t seen anything that challenges the idea that China is engaging in imperialism here. Do you have any recommended reading that challenges the western narrative?
The issue is also people getting banned for a comment like the one quoted. There’s nothing in there that’s worthy of a ban under any reasonable set of mod rules.
Yes. And not did I NOT slag the entire group as accused, it seems the only issue was that I was not parroting the hive speak. Instead of engaging in discourse like a mature adult, and ‘expanding their world view’, they and some other users are content to weild the ban hammer like an insecure child/ trumpist/ dictator. I believe in people’s right to speak, even if I disagree with their message, which seems to include the very things we in SEA are concerned about.
Never mind mate. Apparently his version of expanding his worldview doesn’t involve ‘younger’ accounts. That tells me all I need to know.
To be fair, a new account posting flaming post does seems to be a troll account (not saying you are)
Well, having an opposing opinion doesn’t automatically make it flamebait also - I can’t help how people choose to behave. The comment was copied somewhere in here - no ad hominems, unlike one or two of the responses here (not yours). Just discussing the topic at hand and giving my opinions. Apparently some people don’t react well to contrary views.
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That was certainly rude but I’m trying to engage with everyone in good faith nonetheless. It’s hard but sometimes it pays dividends.
You sir, are a better person than I. One of them has since started deleting. Good thing I didn’t respond in kind.
Do you have any recommended reading that challenges the western narrative?
Id be happy to oblige if i can. Are you looking for something specific to the South China Sea?
I got a short timeline of domestic relations between manilla and beijing from reuter anyway to start the ball rollin’
Yeah I was asking about the South China Sea. I think the summation of events there supports what OP posted and I’m curious if there is any alternative viewpoint that is factually supported.
The link you posted seems in line with my and OP’s views on the conflict.
I thought it was a nice summary showing that the US is involved in building more military bases in the area. China appears worried about the US grabbing more hegemony and military strength along that important trade route.
Viewed through that lens it seems somewhat similar to the Cuban missile crisis, but i don’t want to get into a subjective battle comparing apples to oranges.
China is a rising political and economic force worldwide and the US has a vested interest in stopping them. I see no distinction between what they and we are doing.
Takes pressupposing US benevolence and Chinese imperialism kinda get me back up, and I’ve seen alot of editorialized and biased headlines from supposed unbiased sources that could be the source of these.
Generally i am gonna disagree with a blanket statement like OPs deleted one when i see so much shit like this:
Within that article lies this statement,7 paragraphs down:
“We don’t have any scientific study or any evidence that would suggest that cyanide fishing in Bajo de Masinloc can be attributed to the Chinese or the Vietnamese fishermen,” GMA News quoted a coast-guard spokesperson, Commodore Jay Tarriela, as saying.
But the title states it as fact.
Yeah I mean there is certainly a case to be made that US actions are threatening to China, and it’s also true that pro-US propaganda exists. These are good things to be aware of.
But I also think that this conversation about US vs Chinese interests does not adequately elevate the experiences of smaller countries in the region. Most of whom have voluntarily cooperated with the US to counter Chinese aggression.
Of course, it’s largely true that the US is pursuing their own interests in the region. But that fact does not mean we need to defend Chinese aggression. We should be looking at which actions are beneficial and liberatory to the people who live there, and which are harmful. In my view, Chinese activity is more harmful and imperialistic in the current context. But I am open to learning about and acknowledging the harms that the US is doing as well.
My issue with the Lemmy.ml perspective is that they view US actions in the most unfavorable light possible while viewing Chinese actions in the most positive light possible (usually in direct contradiction to the known facts). When this asymmetry in interpretation is pointed out, their community reacts with hostility or bans. Usually using some nebulous idea of racial prejudice as a justification.
It’s ironic because these are the exact same tactics used by apologists for Israel, which they absolutely hate over there. Authoritarians always use the same tactics it seems.
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The issue is that I really don’t see people defending American imperialism on Lemmy. It is widely acknowledged and condemned, and if I saw people defending it, I would criticize it as well.
But none of that makes China not imperialist also. So when I see people defending the violence that the Chinese government inflicts on their neighbors and particularly minority and dissident groups within China, I have no choice but to call it out. The scope of their empire is smaller and weaker but empires are not capable of benevolence.
Imagine how you would feel if people were here saying “No, it’s good what the Americans did to your country and your family”. That’s the exact rhetoric we see from China’s defenders, and that’s why it needs to be called out.
And concern troll is no longer a term that has any meaning whatsoever thanks to folks like you who constantly misuse it.
But I also think that this conversation about US vs Chinese interests does not adequately elevate the experiences of smaller countries in the region.
I am interested in this too, no sarcasm. Id like to read the perspective of the small countries caught up in this. Ill are if i can find anything interestinng.
We should be looking at which actions are beneficial and liberatory to the people who live there, and which are harmful
Neither actions of either country attempting to control trade and resources in the South China Sea will be liberatory, and i am cynical of a major material benefit for the people of the region.
In my view, Chinese activity is more harmful and imperialistic in the current context
I would like to hear more about that context. The context of the harm to the small countries? How are Chinese actions more imperialistic than the US actions there?
I think we could talk more probably! Ill see what i can find
Go ahead and try to say anything against Islam there and same result.
I ran into something similar a couple days ago:
I wrote a comment critical of Chinas actions in Africa, which was silently deleted after it got traction. When I looked at the mod log, my comment was not listed. Checked back on my comment, checked the mod log from another machine. Nothing.
Just silently and covertly removed without any trace of who and why. Has me really suspicious
You mean the comment in [email protected] about “bootleg videos of Chinese foremen in in Africa” that shows in Modlog as being removed by mod for “Racist stereotyping”?
Yes, that one. I don’t mind so much the removal as the odd secretiveness I observed. Where are you seeing that correct mod log? When I tried looking at the reason the removal action was not in the log, which is what my main issue is/was. I even tried from my phone and computer to the same result
If I make an inappropriate comment (in the heat of the moment) in whatever community it’s totally fine if they remove it but I would at least like to know why.
I just pulled up the modlogs on lemmy.zip and entered your username.
So if I comment on .world, and a mod there removes the comment, I have to check my home instance mod log?
I see what you mean about it not showing in logs on lemmy.world. Given the “carnist rhetoric” one shows I’m betting on it being a bug. Lemmy has many bugs and Modlog federation is especially buggy from what I’ve seen.
That tracks. China’s (imperialist) abuse of Africa isn’t the message they want out there. They frame it as win-win collaboration
Right. More like win and give up your sovereign right and decision making autonomy on all of the world bodies.
well the souuth china sea is chinese so they might have mistaken you for a troll
I have accidentally responded to posts there but have since blocked the instance. Nothing good can come from engaging with them.
lemmy.ml? I don’t part enough attention to the instances unless they’re particularly horrible. But it they’re subtly evil, like banning people with non-conformist views, they often slip under my radar.
You should have a big bad luck or they got some mods. The number of straight racism towards asians and south Americans I saw in World news made me literally block the community months ago. It was exactly the same as the reddit counterpart.
My sentiments exactly. Power tripping mods and autobanning without recourse.
I had the opposite experience. Lemmy’s World News is much less racist than Reddit’s. So many articles about events in Asia, Africa, etc.
As I said, I blocked the community months ago, I dont doubt you, I really wish it changed and I’m wrong
lol
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Amen. Down with the empire of evil crapitalism and greed galore.
Oh yeah. Biden good. Better than Winnie the Pooh. I want Biden to have my children! We sit around all day and make fun of gyna! Gyna smelly bad!
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WHAT U NO HEAR ME? I SAY BIDEN GOOD! GO JOE! YO JOE! GI JOE! A REAL AMERICAN HERO!
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You’re being downvoted not only because of your position but because this is a very rude and hostile tone.
If you are trying to introduce people to a perspective outside of the norms for their community, this is a very ineffective way to do it.
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Nah bro you came here to start shit and you did. Not sure why that surprises or upsets you. If you don’t like it then behave differently.
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You Have Been Banned For Breaking The Terms Of Service. Our Terms of Service Are Byzantine And Who Are We Kidding? Nobody Is Manually Administering This Shit. But That Means There’s No Appeals Process. So Politely Fuck Off, We’re Done Actually Soliciting Content From People. Now We Just Want You Rubes To Give Us Your Money.
Pretty much same as reddit, right?
Lemmy.ml is a tankie instance that loves China and hates western countries. Unfortunately, it’s also one of the biggest Lemmy instances because it’s run by the main devs of Lemmy (who created Lemmy because they were frequently banned on other sites for bootlicking for China). Thankfully, Lemmy is open source and the nature of how it runs allows everyone to ignore the weird ideologies of the devs.
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It’s one of the only 3 instances I block. All tankies bullshit.
what are the other two?
I thought I was only blocking two but it seems I am blocking four
hexbear.net lemmy.ml alien.top lemmygrad.ml
You’ve got my 3. I don’t know anything about alien.top.
alien.top is an instance that scrapes Reddit and mirrors posts and comments, creating bot accounts with the same username as the original poster. The intent was to make it easy for users to migrate away from Reddit (just claim the bot account with your username), but everyone pointed out the obvious ethical problems of mass plagiarizing and how nobody on Reddit can see any replies you make. It was also super spammy and 99℅ of the comments are from those scraper bots, so most instances defederated from them.
Pretty sure that project ended after all the backlash.
I’ve got lemmit blocked for similar reasons. I don’t really know much of it, but that lemmit bot was annoying me and I just sort of assumed the entire instance was probably just Reddit posts so blocked it
Lemmynsfw is on my list too
For those of you asking/ curious, the reason given was ‘yellow peril’. Really? I guess my being asian and directly affected by the Chinese activities in the scs makes me somehow a threat to yellow people?
Lmao that username. You’re either Malaysian or Singaporean.
Hahaha. I recognize your usernamr from ‘the other place’
Leddit? Yeah I was active there, then decided to leave.
Same, with a name change to go with it. Hope things work out here mate!
HK or Cantonese could work as well.
Cibai is a Hokkien insult, not a Cantonese insult
Canton is part of main land Chinese, they use the same standard pinyin.
Ofcourse you can be edgy and use Wade-Giles or some new thing that Taiwan came up with.
Simpsons did it.
Same. I literally have family in China and therefore a real stake in Chinese society. Meanwhile a bunch of western tankies who have never been to China and don’t speak the language hand down bans merely for me relaying conversations I’ve actually had with real Chinese people in their native language about Chinese history and politics.
It’s simple racism to infantilise all Chinese people like this, believing they need a bunch of white saviors on the Internet to speak for them and guard their cultural chastity.
Did you know that if you support Ukraine, the tankies say that makes you racist against Asians? No joke , that’s what I was called. You see, they say, Russia is actually an Asian country.
This isn’t a joke and happened to me. And the people were really really cross with me.
Simply mentioning china or any ethnicity at all is seen as racism to them because grounding reality in anything other than communist propaganda is seen as a threat.
Holy shit theyve drunk the cool aid. There’s articles about mainland students just exploding in college classes when bringing up Chinese topics. Or the video about the piano player being intimidated and wrongly accused of impropriety for making a video. The problem is when the authorities side with these bullies, or play it down.
lol, apparently I got a temp ban for “misinformation” over a comment saying that Russian-aligned forces at Debaltseve ignored the ceasefire that was agreed in Minsk II
In fairness though it was only a temp ban, and they’ve never removed anything else I’ve said (even in that specific thread)
Mine as flagged ‘yellow peril’. Now bear in mind I’m asian and have a direct interest in the article and my comment. Maybe the automod just removes reported posts. But really? Yellow peril? Wtf is that even?
They use a lot of words like that or Sinophobia, orientalism, etc when the word they actually mean to use is wrongthink.
“Yellow peril” is a term describing a kind of racist propaganda that solidified in the 19th century, basically saying that either East Asia or specific parts of East Asia (China or Japan, most often) represents an existential threat to Europe / the West / white people / whatever else. Wikipedia has a page on it, though it sticks to the historical context and leaves more recent versions of the same general idea to other articles. That’s not to say that you were doing it, though, just that it is an established term
Right. So racism is out in my case because I’m an effing Chinese, so it’s just my wording of my disagreement with Chinese policy and propaganda. I consider the Chinese claim on the international waters of the scs plain propaganda and an imminent threat to the surrounding countries. I got no beef with you, friend.
The person replying to me was articulate and well worded, but I couldn’t help thinking it’s the same language putin would use to justify annexing Crimea (quote: it’s more complicated that most people understand) and filling in with much nothingspeak and no sources. I’m so done with that instance now.
I got no beef with you, friend.
Likewise! I didn’t think you came across as angry at me, but sorry if I seemed that way to you. I didn’t mean to
Fuck the Chinese government.
You’ve been banned from lemmy.ml
Keep it civil mate. Be better. It’s not the govt that is banning people here, but the individuals blinded by their tactics.
The Chinese government is responsible for creating a culture of censorship, don’t tell me what to do.
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The instance I posted in was Lemmy.ml
LOL! There ya go.
Yep.
Fastest way to get banned there is to give valid criticism of China or Russia.
One of the Tankiest of tankie instances
Why do tankies stan for Russia? Nostalgia?
Because there are reactionaries. It’s like PETA or angry vegans who are in it for the moral superiority rather than making the world a better place.
Tankies love fascist dictatorships. That’s their whole shtick.
Yep, this.
They are convinced they are gonna be part of the ruling class, So they fucking love fascist authoritarian dictatorship.
The overwhelming irony is that they would most likely be the ones purged, not the ones ruling.
Because no likey da Americans
These morons think Iran is a bastion of anti-colonial resistance
Iran
The theocracy
The successor state to one of the longest running imperial projects in human history
The state currently organizing proxies to destabilize it’s neighbors with the intention of letting a puppet state take all of it for integration within it’s sphere of influence
That Iran.
Tankies have no values and even fewer brain cells.
I wonder where they’re all from? Are they living in the US?
A few are Canadians who think letting the prairie provinces have nice things will lead to the second war of 1812, but yeah, they’re almost always bougie US kids. Why I always call them Bougyeviks.
All the ideology, none of the actual connection to the people who need the most help
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
They want a strong daddy to tell them what to think and do. They’re frightened children.
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Inability to hold nominally conflicting ideas. You can be a socialist and be against the actions of countries that claim to be socialist. Likewise you can be capitalist and be against the actions of countries that claim to be capitalist.
Sow disinformation about the west, erode tust.
Now, bear in mind I’m acutely aware of the strengths of china, and the failings of the us, but when the 300lb gorilla is in your backyard eyeing your kids, you get involved with the gorilla, and keep and eye on what is happening in office politics and in the neighbours yard.
Tankie bitches gonna be tankie bitches.
Isn’t that the developer instance? Are the developers tanki communists? (I don’t believe a real communist would want to support china OR russia since they aren’t actually communists)
Lemmygrad
Even worse.
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Got banned after calling out russian propaganda for being just that. Literally happened on my first or second day on lemmy.
Sorry about that mate. I don’t think Lemmy sucks or anything. But I just hope it’s not going down reddits unfettered moderator powers and getting banned without recourse. Kinda feels like it may be headed there.
I don’t think Lemmy sucks or anything.
This really doesn’t have much to do with Lemmy. If you don’t like what you see from a certain instance, go to an instance that defederates from that instance. That applies regardless of what software you use to access the Fediverse, Lemmy, kbin, whatever.
The abuse of power is instance-specific, fortunately. The whole point of all this is that there are multiple instances. Just ignore the ones that are run by tankies, those instances are theirs to wallow in if they want.
Yeah. I just hope that doesn’t mean we need to keep switching instances once one fills up with weirdos looking around because no one wants to join them in their poisoned forums any more. I’m pretty sure they will have alt accounts on multiple instances.
Its strange. When i first came on here i felt that shit was the same as there bc of this. Now? Idk man… the big difference is the amount of sane voices on here that arent silenced but instead are prevalent. Thats why i dont like the advice of blocking the shitty instances. Young ppl are at risk of stumbling in early, and the trolls/shills need to be pushed back against.
