- cross-posted to:
- israelicrimes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- israelicrimes@lemmy.world
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How very biblical
It does seem old testament…
Jews in Israel and internationally, please Stand up to your government. You know this is wrong. Kill the babies? Listen to what they are saying.
Your government is fucked up. You have let fear and revenge drive your country to madness. Look in your hearts, would a loving and just God want this? I don’t care what any book says, look in your heart. You know this is wrong.
Is that guy part of the government?
Not exactly like every Jew is Israeli, in fact Israel is the one trying to force the narrative that they are, because it reinforces that narrative to those Jews when people actually do antisemitic shit
It’s a settler recruitment strategy.
Not to mention the view that being anti-genocide is antisemitic - a deeply stupid, dishonest, antisemitic position that gives the best possible justification one could give for the extermination of the Jews.
removed by mod
Linker, this may be the stupidest thing you’ve ever said.
Every western government has been complicit in this genocide. USA most of all. None of this could have occurred had it not been for the funding and the diplomatic cover provided by our governments. It’s up to all of us to make it stop.
Oh yeah? Pray tell, how do we do that? And mind you, you’ve also got Iran in play, Egypt is doing its thing, and they would both react in their own way.
Like would you suggest NATO troops on the ground? How do you think Hamas would react to that?
What tactics has the West utilized against Russia that they have not employed against Israel?
Economic sanctions. Apply them to Israeli leadership in the military and in politics. Plus Business leaders and bankers. Prevent Israeli banking institutions “from accessing SWIFT, the international system for financial transactions, and restricting access to Western financial markets.” Ban Israeli access to international goods and services import as well as export. Let’s see how long their military can go without oil.
Lets not include Spain and the Republic of Ireland on it, who have even tried to get the EU to sanction Israel for this.
But yeah, the rest are a disgrace, after the US especially Germany, who once again because of the etnicity of the aggressors, unwaveringly supports their committing of genocide along etnic lines and were the political and media “elites” even deploy Goebbels-style propaganda on this against its own populations. It was pretty dissapointing for me to see that whilst the national socialist party of the german worker is gone (though at the hands of others, not because it was kicked out by the Germans themselves), their cold violent racist ways are alive and well, at least amongst the German “elites”.
Well, I think the US public has been pretty vocal about this compared to most issues. People are really pissed at Biden. So don’t change the subject.
I think it’s time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don’t make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
I think it’s time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don’t make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
Are you deliberately trying to use the same language as was used against Muslims 20 years ago?
No, I guess I don’t get your reference, unless you are referring to 911?
If so it would be the Americans needing to condemn their government for invading Iraq, not the Muslims condemning 911.
publicly shaming Israelis and Jews
This is about Zionism. It’s not about Jews. If you make it about Jews you are falling for the Zionist tactic of equating the two. Do better
Really I just meant the international community of Jewish people. Many of them have strong opinions about matters related to Israel.
As a member of the international community of Jews, I think what Israel is doing is monstrous and disgusting. But I am in no way responsible for what they do. I don’t live there, I’ve never been there, and I have zero ability to influence Israeli policy beyond expressing my disapproval, which I often do.
Stop spreading the misinformation that Israel = all Jews.
I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.
My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.
When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don’t you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?
What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.
And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.
and internationally
Jewish people have nothing to do with Israel. There is no greater burden on them than us
Perfect example of the antisemitism channeled by this war…
Same kind of bullshit of asking a random Muslim on the street to denounce IS when they bombed something…
Exactly.
This would be international outrage if a palestinian said this about Israelis
Really making that ICJ genocide case easy huh.
Only thing this obvious fascist is missing is the Hugo Boss uni
“But if you call it a genocide you’re an antisemite.”
-AIPAC
Why? Was one of them prophesied to be a king someday?
people acting like there aren’t extremists on both sides of the conflict…
Bombing women and children en masse doesn’t make it a conflict, it makes it a slaughter.
They’re intentionally preventing food and water from entering Gaza. It’s a genocide.
it’s been a conflict for 70 years.
and the palestinian government is no saint either
the losers are the both the palestinian and israeli citizens turning our back on israel doesn’t help anything. weve long had two state solution policy. it’s a shame that the Israeli government has long since forgotten rabin’s courage and the palestinian/gazan government cares more about killing israelis than it does helping their people
Half of the population is under 18.
Every new generation, this kind of conflict repeats - Hamas launches a more organized attack, then Israel bombs it into a warzone and redraws the borders.
Hamas, the Palestinian “government” recognized by Israel, is a hardliner terrorist group. After they were elected, Israel stopped holding elections for Palestinians… It’s been decades now.
This situation is scripted.
it’s been a conflict for 70 years.
Oh well in that case it’s ok for Isreal to bomb women and children.
and the palestinian government is no saint either
This is a whataboutism.
Oh well in that case it’s ok for Isreal to bomb women and children.
no where in my post did i say that…
Then what was the relevance of the sentence?
Whataboutism
I mean, it’s not out of character historically.
Yikes. Not a good look at all.
This is what one guy said. It is not representative, as a lone data point, of all Jews, all Israelis, or the Israeli government. If you have more data points, feel free to share them, but this one Rabbi’s statement doesn’t prove any generalisation.
Serious question - where would we see signs of broad Israeli opposition to the genocide? I know Netanyahu is unpopular, but I don’t think the genocide is a major factor in that unpopularity.
Unfortunately, I don’t think you’ll find that as much anymore. One of understated but equally awful side effects of Hamas’ very successful pogrom is, in targeting who it did among the Israeli population, it pushed a lot of Israeli society currently in Israel hard right even beyond standard rally around the flag effects. The Israeli left and peace activist movement effectively died last year.
The problem is this comment doesn’t exist in a vaccuum. It’s simply the latest statement along these lines.
https://www.dailysabah.com/world/mid-east/israeli-lawmakers-kill-all-palestinians-remarks-resurface
https://www.voanews.com/a/damascus-airstrike-said-to-kill-iranian-revolutionary-guards/7448161.html
Sure does make me think we shouldn’t have arms deals with theocracies though.
That rules out most of the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia.
While it would be nice to live in a world where strategic defense partnerships could be selected from better bedfellows, it’s not like there’s a plethora of good options to choose from in the area.
If it were up to me all arms sales to the Middle East would stop. I see absolutely no benefit to anyone within 1,500 miles of the Red Sea having access to so much as a single 9mm handgun cartridge.
While I agree in principle, I kind of get (especially after the invasion of Ukraine) why USINT has had a hard on for strategic opposition of Russia all these years.
I have a feeling if it was up to both of us we’d just not have arms sales or production anywhere and have those resources instead invested into research and development of things to help advance humanity. But in a world not up to either of us, I can understand hard choices even if they don’t sit well with me.
Yeah because it’s not like rabbis have any influence over a congregation of people or anything.
I don’t think we should sensationalize one rabbi talking out his ass but there’s a lot of other data points. Itamar Ben-Gvir (Minister of National Security) and Yoav Gallant (Minister of Defense) say genocidal shit all the time. They’re not random rabbis. South Africa’s case before the ICJ included a lot of direct quotes from leading government officials.
I don’t know anything about this organization — I just found this on Google — but an NGO called Law 4 Palestine apparently has a database that seems to cite sources pretty well. https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/
And look: I know that Hamas and probably every other Islamic fundamentalist group’s leadership has said equally awful shit (and worse shit, for that matter). Some of the Israeli quotes came at an extremely traumatic moment. But this is bigger than one rabbi. I don’t think it’s be hard to establish intent if Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, and Gallant end up getting tried for war crimes.
Edit: I just want to add that most Israelis (and the Jewish diaspora) do not support the current government at this point. They were having mass protests before Hamas attacked.
The he said/she said is getting really old.
It takes willful ignorance at this point to not recognize that both Likud and Hamas have influential representation frothing at the mouth at the idea of ethnic cleansing of the other side.
It certainly isn’t all Palestinians or Israelis, it might not even be all of Likud or Hamas.
But the fact there’s agents advocating genocidal actions within the governments of each side of the conflict is pretty much indisputable at this point.
The fact a humanitarian crisis has become such a tribalistic litmus test is pretty ridiculous and gross. (And I’m referring to both ‘sides’ of that tribalism in case anyone thinks this is a unilateral criticism.)
I don’t think he speaks for all Jewish people or all people in Israel…as far as the government goes…he might not speak for them, but he’s definitely harmonizing. As far as data points go, I submit everything that had happened since 1967, with a very specific focus on the last ~5 months.
If it came from an arab or muslim religious figure, western media mainstream media wouldn’t shut up about it for weeks. but an Israeli figure calling for extermination of an entire ethnic group passes under their radar and keep giving moral and legal ammunition to Israel to carry on its genocide in Gaza.
Really? Because searching with the roles reversed I definitely see similar statements had been made but only see coverage by ideologically aligned sites:
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-787452
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egyptian-minister-quotes-koran-verse-on-killing-jews/
https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/California-Imam-calls-on-Allah-to-annihilate-Jews-500676.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kill-all-jews-urges-hamas-tv-host/
The only mainstream sources along a similar thread were within days of the Oct 7th attack:
So it just looks more like the mainstream press isn’t interested in reporting what religious zealots say outside of very narrow windows of relevance to major recent news stories (and even then rather sparingly).
That’s a lot of very outdated and out of context links you put there.
Also some there interpret anti semitism very liberally.
You are so caught up in your agenda that you aren’t even thinking though what you are saying.
Would it make more sense to discuss a pattern of behavior in the media by linking to multiple examples over an extended period of time or to only show examples within a narrow period of time?
Also some there interpret anti semitism very liberally.
In this case, people call literally tell from the URLs in the comment that your sealioning on this particular point is BS.
Except your examples are not examples of anti-Semitism. As everyone knows now Zionists call every criticism of israel anti-semitic.
Take Ryna Workman, the president of the NYU Law Student Bar Association who sent a message to “y’all” expressing “my unwavering and absolute solidarity with Palestinians in their resistance against oppression toward liberation and self-determination. Israel bears full responsibility for this tremendous loss of life. . … I will not condemn Palestinian resistance.”
Did this man say “I want to kill all the Jews” according to you?
You have a weird hangup here dude. You aren’t at all engaging with my comment about media coverage, but are instead pulling a random excerpt from the opinion piece a few days after the Oct 7th attack to discuss…what?
The opinion piece doesn’t even call that ‘antisemitism.’ You cut off the lines immediately before it, which makes no claim in line with what you allude:
The Harvard students hardly stand alone in their abhorrent willingness to cast Hamas as freedom fighters rather than bloodthirsty terrorists. Equally offensive statements blaming Israel and effectively applauding Hamas abound at other universities and colleges too numerous to list. Take Ryna Workman, the president of the NYU Law Student Bar Association…
The author of that opinion piece is entirely entitled to the opinion that victim blaming terrorist attacks on civilians is offensive to them, just as there’s plenty of opinion pieces to the other direction that denying human rights violations is offensive to a lot of other people. That’s kind of the point of opinion pieces - to express an opinion.
But the brunt of the examples I provided in the main part of my comment (the many examples of religious leaders calling for the ethnic killing of the people they don’t like) were completely in line with the OP article.
The last two were simply included as examples of how little the mainstream press covers “these people call for genocide” claims from any side except when relevant to recent news - and to that point one of the only two mainstream pieces was an opinion piece.
You’re basically making my central point in citing the Newsweek opinion piece’s shortcomings - that contrary to the theory of the person I replied to, there’s little to no coverage of religious figure calls for violence outside of limited sets of articles with clear agendas.
You pasted random Hasbara from internet that you didn’t read and called criticism of israel anti-Semitic. If anyone is pushing an agenda it’s you.
Not condemning Hamas equals calling for the genocide of all Jews?
Joke articles.
You pasted random Hasbara from internet that you didn’t read and called criticism of israel anti-Semitic.
Citation needed, as it appears we’re just making up straw men now. In this comment thread, I literally didn’t even write the word ‘antisemitism’ outside of quoting your use of it.
Yeah, that’s not true coverage of the topic… give me a break.
Did you read any of his links? Quote me the part where people say something anti-semitic.
In a July 21 lecture posted on the Davis Masjid YouTube channel, Muslim preacher Ammar Shahin spoke in English and Arabic about how all Muslims, not only Palestinians or Syrians, will be called upon to kill all the Jews on “the last day.”
In a video translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), Shahin also stressed that the Hadith (oral tradition of sayings attributed to the prophet of Islam) does not say where the final battle will take place. “If it is in Palestine,” for example, “or another place,” hinting at the possibility that such a battle could happen in the United States or Europe as well.
He also prayed that al-Aksa mosque be liberated from “the filth of the Jews.”
From this link: https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/California-Imam-calls-on-Allah-to-annihilate-Jews-500676
In a clip of the kids’ TV show “The Pioneers of Tomorrow,” broadcast on May 2 and uploaded Thursday by the MEMRI media watchdog, the host of the program, a young girl in a hijab, interviews two very young children, one of whom says she hopes to be a police officer like her uncle Ahmad.
The host asks what policemen do, and, after establishing that they catch criminals, adds that “they shoot Jews, right?” and stresses to her young guest that “you want to be like him.”
“I will shoot the Jews!” the little child says.
“All of them?” the host asks.
“Yes,” the girl says
“Good,” the host answers.
In a previous segment, a co-host of the show, an anthropomorphic bee character, talks on the phone with a child in the West Bank Jenin refugee camp, and encourages him, if Jews come into the camp, to “punch them” and “turn their faces into tomatoes in order to liberate Palestine.”
Yeah, nothing antisemitic here.
LOL that’s what I’m talking about… I can see the reply already “that’s not true anti-semitism…”
Were there people that call themselves “Jews” attacking the Al Aqsa mosque and violently shooting Muslims one year ago? Do you think he is referring to that? Or is he calling to Genocide all Jewish children there?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=QR-c5QsoPxI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Were there people that call themselves “Jews” attacking the Al Aqsa mosque and violently shooting Muslims one year ago? Do you think he is referring to that?
Considering the first article is from 2017 and the second from 2014, no I don’t think either are referring to the Al Aswa mosque violence in 2023.
If they were, that would be really surprising.
…why is the picture the backrooms?
Sigh. As much as I hate Zionists, I’ll be the first to say this is not indicative of everyone in Israel nor should all Israelis be criticized for statements like these.
It’s the same thing as if an American pastor said shit. They do it all the time and it doesn’t matter (much).
Ahhh yeah the good cops can totally change the system from within!
/s
Rabbi Eliyahu Mali and his Yeshiva are sponsored by Benjamin Netanyahu’s government
This is a Jewish Israeli extremist. Dont judge all of us based on this abhorrent example.
It’d be like asking Hamas the same question, clearly we shouldn’t judge the Palestinian innocents on Hamas’ views, nor should we judge Israel on this guys views
I’ll judge Israelis on the actions and words of their representatives and armes forces.
Doesn’t seem that much different to this extremist.
Majority held views among the population are in support of Gazan genocide and withholding all food from entering Gaza. The settler society at all levels understands its interests demand genocide.
Exactly my point, this extremist does speak for the majority.
He is not just an extremist but also an Idiot.
Killing everyone in Gaza is just dumb because there are also several 10.000 Israeli soldiers in Gaza.
But meh… we already learned that extremism breads brain rot. Hamas is proof of it.
Crass
Drax? Is that you?
Don’t worry, we’re judging you (Israel) by your actions, which… checks notes… are in full alignment
Ok, well if that’s the case what is your community going to do to ensure he does not receive support from you, and that he can not recruit from within you, and that your community does not produce more extremists like him?
Usually in this type of situation the answer is to act outraged on social media.
Not the OP, but sadly, the israeli state has a vested interest in supporting rabbis like him who act as an arm of extreme statist propaganda.
Even though the “disciples” of these kinds of rhetoric are not likely to serve in the military, they will egg on the existing population and do their spiel of making bullshit stories up.
And while I’d love to be in a position to go all “not all of us are like that”, and while I’m aware there are some Israelis who fight to get food in gaza, my entire family and most of my friends and colleagues spout this kind of extreme rhetoric, and i honestly feel like I’m slowly losing my mind over it.
There is not much willing in any community, and not much hope anything will change internally for the time being.
Your situation sounds pretty miserable and you do have my sympathy.
I’m naive to the nuance of the Israel / Gaza / extremist situation. My comment was just a tongue in cheek commentary on the nature of ideologies and extremism.
Ideologies tend to attract and / or produce nutters, provide them succour, but then disclaim their behaviours.
Most of my family believes similarly to this Rabbi. I feel like if I try to defend the Palestinians or put an ounce of blame on the Israeli occupation I’ll be excommunicated.
I instead try to teach the undecided, usually the ones who have been ignorant to the situation or those who haven’t yet “taken a side”. I grew up in an orthodox Jewish settlement on the west bank so I belibe I can speak with some amount of authority.
And more importantly, is it ok if we carpetbomb his neighbourhood?
This is a Jewish Israeli extremist.
… who teaches at a yeshiva that gets its funding from the Israeli government… guess he’s not so extreme he can’t get government funding. Embarrassing. Even in the relatively thoughtless USA we would cancel that sponsorship in a second.
Israeli democracy often resembles more of a Jewish “theocracy” I say that as a former Israeli voter. There is a huge coalition of religious politicians that work together to keep money flowing to the orthodox haredi voters whonare invaluable to them.
(x)
Do Israeli institutions not have mechanisms to dismiss officials who vocalize rhetoric like this?
They have mechanisms to dismiss the rest
Sure they do, but do they want to is the real question.
No clue. I’m just pointing out the existing association. He could be 1 in 1000 or he could be in 1 in 4.
In my experience 1 in 4
Actually those yeshivas to get funding from Israeli government are more likely to be extremist.
I have taken pains to point out that Zionism does not equate Judaism. Three of the men from whom I have learned the most about this conflict are all Jewish, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein and Ilan Pappé.
No judgement to you all from me. War is a conductive environment for extremism. War is hell, after all.
