I am from india. These numbers are inflated due to our population and government and health sector office pc using linux (ubuntu). These office pcs just require a chrome browser and all the work is done on the browser Nobody here cares what os they use in their office pc. I don’t see anyone here switching to linux on their personal pc other than the IT students who are forced to install kali linux. And most of them are running linux on virtualbox on windows.
Steam deck is not even officially sold here and imported ones that are sold cost 950$ for the 512 gb variant. So it is a ultra niche item here. .
People here buy desktops only for gaming/content creation, which means most households here doesn’t need/require a desktop. And these people always prefer mac or windows.
Also gaming scene here is dominated by mobile games (because gaming pcs and consoles are too expensive and we have the cheapest internet and phone prices) As for pc games it is dominated by valorant, Minecraft and gtav (fivem rp).
Edit - Many consider this a huge win. But getting market share in the office space for basic browsing and word processing inflates the numbers for actual game/app developers who wants to support linux and they will disappointed seeing the actual usage and they will abandon the linux support. Also the indian market isn’t buying laptop/desktops for browsing, they just use their phone because pc hardware is expensive and phones prices are cheap. And anyone who is buying desktops for serious tasks stick to windows and mac.
I get what you’re trying to say but I work in a large healthcare organisation in the UK and our PCs run Windows. Most of the work across our organisation is done within a virtual machine window for our Electronic Patient Record; the local OS on the PC is largely irrelevant. The exception is that office is used for email and that causes a drag on moving away from Windows - people are used to using Outlook rather than just using a webmail or other tool.
Windows has that market share currently largely through inertia rather than going for the most cost effective option. The 15% in India with government and health sector use does count, it’s quite an achievement to have successfully deployed a vendor neutral operating system for other tools to be deployed on to. Shame it’s using Chrome though. In the UK Healthcare we’re wasting huge sums licensing and maintaining Windows when we really shouldn’t be.
The workflow actually works on any browser. Chrome is used because that icon is recognisable and IT guy can just say click on the chrome icon and people understand that.
I will say that your statement that no one cares about what their OS is. it kind of makes the point. If no one cares. Why would you use a nonfree OS? Other than the FUD and that it’s just what was used before.
I was specifically taking about office pcs. People sitting in front of those office pcs have better things to worry about. Their interaction with the linux os is clicking that giant chrome icon and they do whatever the IT guy taught them.
We could mirror your post for windows though, their only interaction with the OS is launching the browser. The vast majority of people running windows only use their pc to run the browser and the office suite, and they use windows because it’s what came pre-installed.
I understand your point that india doesn’t particularly care for linux, but by that same logic the world doesn’t particularly care for windows either.
Linux lacking support for popular multiplayer games here and creator apps is not helping either.
It is not Linux per se lacking support. This is due to those that make apps/games. And, in fairness, to the fact that dev in Linux has been a bit of a mess in the last few years, with all the Wayland & o shananigans
I guess, the browser is kind of the replacement for the OS in OP’s case, which is again, a nonfree OS/browser.
Still, it’s better to use free os + nonfree browser than nonfree os and browser, but I get your point.
That’s the only reason why the Government chooses Ubuntu. Even in School IT Classes, they use Ubuntu. Children are trained in OpenOffice, GIMP etc in Government Schools, but MS Office in Private Schools.
Thank you. The mystery is now solved for me.
You cant count out office PCs where do you think all the windows stats come from?
This. OP seems to discredit those numbers based on two arguments.
- They’re not personal computers but work PCs
- Those computers are mostly using a web browser and that’s it - no “paradigm change”
However, this is ignoring that
- those computers counted when they were on Windows too
- those genuinely working from a browser could probably have done so on Windows as well, no “paradigm change” either going on here
- the usage stats are counted from web hits anyway
Considering this, I’m not entirely sure why the numbers wouldn’t be any more or less significant than before.
People who switch to linux on their personal pc know what linux is and why it is better. But people who use office pc dont know what os they are using and they still use windows on their personal laptops and desktops.
That’s lot of assumptions and a lot of missing the point.
The point being game/app support matter a lot and you don’t get them because office pc uses linux for web browsing. If these developers follow the 4% market share they will disappointed by the actual usage. Windows doesnt have this problem eventhough it is fading away from enterprise.
You completely missed the point.
You’re using a statistic that literally tracks web views to justify your view that Linux users that just use it for work by browsing the web don’t really count. You say this despite them having counted as Windows users on their work machines, using the same metric, since forever before they had to use Linux.
What you are describing is the commoditization of the desktop market. What follows from that is a lack of profitability. What follows from that is a lack of corporate investment and a lack of corporate leadership. That makes the cycle repeat but faster.
Microsoft already knows the desktop market is lost. It is still a cash cow but they are not investing in it. Azure, 365, and AI are all much more important to them.
I use Microsoft Teams on Linux every day. You can say I just click the icon and do not care what OS I am using. What you miss is that Microsoft does not care either.
If I can “not care” what OS I am using, I can choose Linux. If I do “‘not care”, it is very hard for Microsoft to monetize me. If they cannot monetize me, they do not care either. They will stop investing in keeping me on their OS. At some point, Linux is better and the obvious default.
The question is not how long it takes Linux to grow. It is the inevitability of it and the fact that the trend will be one direction over time. Once large numbers of people switch ( even if Indian office workers or Greek military ), most of them will not switch back.
I love loved how when Microsoft published docs on how to install and configure Linux on their desktop PCs, everyone was like “wtf??? Do they hate money?” completely missing the fact that home edition Windows is probably bringing them nothing or close to nothing, and that the real money is in B2B.
Even more, that India’s govt is supporting means that this is not one-off stroke, there is momentum behind linux.
But are them false?
I kind of get where you’re coming from. Because you don’t see people using it in your vicinity, it doesn’t seem popular.
However, as others have pointed out, many many people get a computer just to browse and open a word processor. That would remove lots of windows and mac devices from the stats too. And if corporate devices weren’t counted, that’d be a lot too.
Do you believe the majority of people even know what OS they’re using?
Thanks for bringing your personal experience on the matter. I will try to comment on a couple of things.
Even though it’s the government who is mainly pushing this change, and not the general public, I think it’s a good thing. Since those machines just use a browser, this is one more reason to move to Linux, because there will be few migration issues. This makes your government less dependent on foreign corporations. I’m from Brazil, and I know how painful it is to see the govern spending millions on software licenses, when we’re in need of so many things. We had a similar government program about 20 years ago, but unfortunately, it didn’t go well.
On most people not using desktops, this is the way things are going back to, just like in the beginning of computing, when computers were professional machines. People who don’t need it for work won’t bother getting one, for the same reason most houses don’t have professional tools.
I think the market share growth is still relevant, and this will create some positive impact in your country in the long run, if they don’t stop the incentive.
People just use the software they need and it works. That’s not a bad thing. That’s how it’s supposed to be. I mean imagine paying for a whole OS just to run chrome. Now that would be crazy and stupid.
Agreed. Also I think web browser is sufficient for most workloads nowadays. Maybe vim or vscode for programming?
Sidenote: I met a couple folks from india in my last IT job and recently started work on a mineclone texture pack with a guy from - you guessed it - india. Its a lot of fun and I‘m sad we dont have more cultural exchange on lemmy. Like, what are the things we dont know as westerners, both good and bad? I feel like there’s a lot to learn here.
Thanks for reading me going off on a tangent. Have a nice day.
To your first point, I don’t know about other people but I generally assumed the numbers were mostly due to office deployments, whether government or private.
Your statements about most people not having a computer are also true in the United States. When I worked support for a smartphone manufacturer I encountered so many people who not only did not have a computer, they didn’t have any internet service at all. They just use their phone for everything and rely heavily on the unlimited dataplans that are so ubiquitous nowadays. It didn’t even seem to be an age-related decision as I spoke to both young folks and folks approaching retirement age who had made this decision. As an IT worker who grew up with techy parents, the concept is wild and outlandish to me, but it’s the reality of how many people compute is they have no laptop or desktop, and may not even have Internet service
Nobody here cares what os they use in their office pc.
Yup, that’s how it’s supposed to be. You turn on your PC to get your office work done, not to reinstall display drivers each day.
Gone are the days when you needed to compile your own modem drivers to access Internet from your Linux PC.
The Linux experts here are using their technical knowledge to perform advanced tasks like setting up server clusters for AI-generated furry porn, they are definitely not the ‘average’ Linux user.
Do these private computers run a properly licensed version of Windows? What’s the cost for a license? Same as in other countries?
And another thing I wodered: Is there more Linux expertise available than in other countries? I guess the average person from India isn’t in IT. But there’s lots of IT, lots of companies from my country have outsourced parts of their IT. I occasionally watch tutorial videos or university lectures on Youtube either in english with a heavy accent or for domestic use and not in english. Some of them discuss some crazy niche Linux topics or software development, which is also oftentimes deployed on Linux infrastructure. Or is it just because India is a big country and it’s just a matter of scale that I get to see some videos from over there?
Do these private computers run a properly licensed version of Windows? What’s the cost for a license? Same as in other countries?
Only the big ones. Pirated Windows is extremely cheap, and Microsoft doesn’t care too much as they want people using Windows. A new proper licence would be Rs 5,000 to Rs 10,000. This is a considerable sum for the average Indian.
Is there more Linux expertise available than in other countries?
I don’t know that much about other countries. I do know that we are probably the most Linux-friendly country in the world. But most of the senior people in the FOSS community are from Europe / US / East Asia.
These numbers are inflated due to our population and government and health sector office pc using linux
So just like Windows numbers being massively inflated because of corporate computer fleets?
These office pcs just require a chrome browser and all the work is done on the browser Nobody here cares what os they use in their office pc.
Right, so again, the mostly the same with Windows for both office and personal use.
I don’t see anyone here switching to linux on their personal pc other than the IT students who are forced to install kali linux.
What are you expecting exactly? Is the choice of each person supposed to be formally announced? Are we supposed to real into a populated areas and declare like Micheal Scott “I declare: I’M USING LINUUUUUX!”?
People here buy desktops only for gaming/content creation, which means most households here doesn’t need/require a desktop.
You just described the entire world. This is far from unique to India. Most people I know don’t have a desktop and maybe have a laptop, and I live in North America.
Not to be conceded, but I’m guessing this post is in response to my comments from a couple days ago?
I really don’t understand your point. It’s like you’re saying “the users in India don’t count because they’re not using Linux the way I do”.
Does that mean that all the workstations at CERN don’t count? Or that the systems up on the ISS don’t count?
To me (and I’m certain most people in general would agree) the ISS story is very important, because they were originally running Windows on those systems, but it kept crashing. They switched to Linux to get more stability out of those systems and have been using Linux ever since.
Also, does the story of the City of Munich switching to Linux not count either? It’s supposed to be a major win, btw. A city government switching away from Windows and choosing to go with Linux is huge. I see it the same way with India. The more often people are Linux in the wild, the more normalized it is and the more mind share it generates. And mind share is huge in getting people to make a certain choice. It’s the reason why product ads are everywhere. The more often you see a product/brand, the more likely you are to say to yourself “that’s the thing I’ll buy”.
Before anyone says Munich switched back to Windows, they didn’t. Microsoft made an under-table deal with some officials with the at-the-time in power government to switch back to Windows if they set up a Microsoft office in Munich. Then a new government was voted in a few months later and said “hell no, we’re continuing with the Linux rollout” and that’s where we are today. The City of Munich is a Linux success story.
Ultimately your post was just stating some facts and then waffling on about how it doesn’t count.
You just described the entire world. This is far from unique to India. Most people I know don’t have a desktop and maybe have a laptop, and I live in North America.
I’m pretty sure in Europe, UK and Switzerland almost every household has at least one PC. A lot even one per person. Everyone I know from Europe has their own in their room and kids usually get their own in their teens. The difference between poorer households and rich are usually just how good/new those PCs are.
In india due to low cellular data prices and android phone prices (chinese brands are huge in india) situation is very different. Consoles and pc hardware are priced differently compared to other electronics.
I’m in Canada and work in IT. Most of the people I know that have desktop systems are other IT people or PC gamers. Otherwise most of everyone else uses a laptop.
You work in IT but you distinguish between desktop systems and laptops? Why?
Lol, especially because I work in IT. I’m tired of companies only issuing laptops to employees when SFF systems get you more for less. The company where I work currently sends out a laptop, two monitors, a mouse, and keyboard for all hires.
They were giving out 8GB systems to developers (mostly running Windows and Visual Studio). It was a massive issue. I made a big deal out of it and advocated for new systems with 32GB. They bought new systems, sent them out, and it turns out they all had 16GB.
The person doing the order missed that detail and thought they were getting a deal for the company. Which resulted in a complicated process of ordering everyone an extra stick of RAM and then trying to instruct everyone how to open a laptop to install the RAM.
A SFF system would have solved much of these problems. Cheaper than laptops, usually better specs and thermals, and far easier to upgrade.
So to me, there’s a massive difference between desktops and laptops.
By SFF you are talking small form factor? To my knowledge there is only one big player in this field which is Intel NUC and I am not even sure THEY have business support. Thats a big argument for laptops, because you get proper business support compared to niche products like SFF devices.
But maybe I completely missed your point.
SFF is an entire class of desktop computing with multiple product lines from HP, Lenovo, Dell, etc.
The Intel NUC was a unique subset often called a “mini pc”.
Businesses buy SFF systems all the time. My point was simply that SFF should be favoured over laptops in many cases, instead of being the default employee device within a company.
People here buy desktops only for gaming/content creation, which means most households here doesn’t need/require a desktop.
You just described the entire world. This is far from unique to India. Most people I know don’t have a desktop and maybe have a laptop, and I live in North America.
Pretty sure that they mean that most people’s only device is a phone. Desktops and laptops are basically the same thing, packaged slightly differently.
Yes, which is why I said “Most people I know don’t have a desktop and maybe have a laptop”.
My sentence implies that most people don’t have a desktop or laptop, and if they are to have one, then it’s more likely to be a laptop.
Ah! In that case I misunderstood you, sorry!
I was in reddit just a few minutes ago. I don’t think I have seen a comment like this there in forever. Kudos!
So most of the entire world is using windows/mac if they want to do something serious other than web browsing. And most of the linux desktop usage is contributed by enterprise and office pcs using linux. People still use windows and mac on their personal pc. So it is not a huge win if you want developer support for games and apps. Even if developers follow these numbers and start supporting linux, they will soon realise it is not worth their time because linux usage is mostly due to enterprise running chrome.
So most of the entire world is using windows/mac if they want to do something serious other than web browsing.
Absolutely not. Depending on what you want to do, Linux enables you to do way more than Windows.
And most of the linux desktop usage is contributed by enterprise and office pcs using linux.
Do you have actual numbers for this, or is it just entirely your own anecdotal observation?
Even if developers follow these numbers and start supporting linux, they will soon realise it is not worth their time because linux usage is mostly due to enterprise running chrome.
Garbage argument. It’s like the whole induced demand nonsense city project planners use. No one ever says “I’m only using Linux because I don’t need the extra stuff Windows can offer”, instead what you often hear is “I’d switch to Linux if this one specific application wasn’t Windows only”.
The largest thing that has held Linux adoption is application compatibility.
And one fact that I know that questions your “it’s only cheap enterprises” argument is that Linux is huge in the academic sector in India (and the world also). More than half of the AI and ML demo videos on YouTube are from Indian accounts.
I don’t see anyone here switching to linux on their personal pc other than the IT students who are forced to install kali linux.
I think someone is pulling your leg. All the IT / engineering students I know use either a normal Linux distribution like Ubuntu, or Windows. Kali is for cybersecurity people and wannabe h4X0rs.
As someone from India, I agree with you.
I guess people just want to use what everyone else uses. Using something different than windows is instantly assumed to be very difficult.
I even showed my friends how they can play games on linux instead of having their laptops get stuck while using windows 11 , but they still won’t even consider trying it.
Btw if you don’t mind - do you play apex legends ? (Judging by your username)
