Explanations/etymology also appreciated!
For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It’s a derivation of the practice of using “shm-” to dismiss something (eg “Practice shmactice. We’re already perfect”).
And “John Smith” is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the “most common” (citation needed) first and last name as well.
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In Spain we use “Fulano de Tal”. It seems Fulano comes from the arabic language, meaning “Anybody”. We use it when we don’t the name of a person we are talking about, or we really don’t care to know the name. Apart of Fulano, we also use Mengano.
Fulano/Mengano for men, Fulana/Mengana for women.
I guess our John/Jane Smith would be Pepe/Pepa García.
Germany uses Max/Erika Mustermann – literally Sampleman. It’s used for example on official sample pictures of our IDs. Some authorities in erlin have startet to use the gender neutral name Manu Mustermann.
That’s the official version, but at least when I talk about some average dude it’s way too long and artificial, I don’t think the name Mustermann actually exists.
When I think of the most common name to use in casual conversation, I’d probably go for Müller (maybe Peter? Though the first name is probably heavily generation-dependent).
In older publication you may alse find references to “der deutsche Michel” (the german Michel, short for Michael) as a somewhat condescending reference to the average citizen who is very hesitant to adopt new concepts and tech and not always able or willing to understand complex concepts. Often used to remark that a product/idea will not have a chance on the market because “der deutsche Michel” doesn’t see the pointor would never pick it up.
Haven’t seen that in a while though, I guess Germans have become more open to new stuff :)
also “Otto Normalverbraucher”
France: Martin Dupont
But I prefer Dominique Dupont as the first name is both for men and women.
I remember, in this movie Inglorious Basterds, the woman and her family were called
Dupontaswell
Flemish talking part of Belgium it is Jan Janssen
Japan, you usually use “Taro Tanaka” as the goto placeholder name. Tanaka is a very common surname here and it’s super easy to write as well (田中). Sato is actually the most common but also a lot harder to write (佐藤). Tanaka is also a very “working class” name, it litearlly means “in the rice field” and most likely comes from families with a background of rice farmers. Taro also a very common given name; there have been quite a few Taro Tanakas throughout history despite being the placeholder name on most forms and the like. Taro, incidentally means “Big/Strong Son”.
I am not sure offhand of a female equilvalent, it’s usually Taro as the placeholder.
Along with Tanaka, Yamada (山田) is also often used as a placeholder surname. It’s a comparably common name that’s also simple to read and write.
As for female placeholder given names, IMO the closest equivalent to Taro would probably be Hanako (花子). I’ve seen adverts that show sample credit cards or forms bearing these names.
For example, an ad for a Toyota financing promotion might feature the name Toyota Taro on the sample application form. Or in a Mitsubishi UFJ credit card ad, the happy-looking lady in the ad will be using a credit card that bears the name Mitsubishi Hanako.
Hm, well about 40% of our population is named Nguyễn. I don’t think there’s an equivalent expression, but I’d choose Anh Nguyễn. In addition to being a name for both genders, ‘Anh’ just means something like ‘sir’ or ‘older brother’.
In the Netherlands there’s “Jan Modaal”, modaal (modal) referring the most commonly occurring value in or peak of a distribution. This name is used often when representing the experience of the most average Dutchman.
It’s especially often used in financial discussions and journalism, like “owning a house is getting further out of reach for Jan Modaal.”
In Belgium we mostly use Jan met de pet (“Jan with the cap”)
We also have the slur of “sjonnie en anita” when talking about lower class, anti social people, “sjonnie” being the man and “anita” the woman. Both are very common names in older generations, less common in younger generations.
Would Jan Lul be relevant to this discussion?
Ingrid en Henk, too, for the run of they mill boomer stereotype
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Which correlates nicely with the English expression “your average Joe”!
In Vietnam, I think it’s just most names 😂. Anh Nguyen is probably a good example. Most Vietnamese have the last name Nguyen. The national naming conventions rival that of religious families in the west. Think, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Anh, An, Thanh, and Minh. Women are the same, but named after things considered beautiful, Tuyet, Hong, Pham, Van.
Funny enough, many names aren’t always gendered, so I’ve met a decent amount of couples with the same first and last names. An Thi Nguyen, and An Van Nguyen is a couple that comes to mind. I dont have to worry about doxxing, since I bet that exists over 1000x here.
In Poland typically, both officially and informally, one says N. N. (Latin nomen nescio, identity unknown).
What the hell, dude? No one says that. Aren’t you thinking of a John Doe?
Polish “John Smith” would be “Jan Kowalski”. It is used to refer to an average citizen and also literally means “John Smith”.
Fair point, I assumed OP meant people of indeterminate identity. Jan Kowalski is indeed the goto placeholder name.
In the UK for a random guy it’s usually Joe Bloggs.
In the UK it is Joe Bloggs
Also Fred Bloggs in Australia — maybe they’re related?
In Germany there is “Max Mustermann”, which basically translates to Max Template-man. It’s the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.
Or for historical context: “der Deutsche Michel” - “the German Michael “
Don’t forget Otto Normalverbraucher. Nobody cares about Otto Normalverbraucher.
Don’t forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She’s usually the one used for passports these days. I think there’s a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.
Isn’t it Erika Musterfrau?
Sometimes, but I mostly see her name as Mustermann.
In German there are also derogatory uses for the forenames “Kevin” and “Otto” for example. Often used to depict not well educated persons that have made extremely stupid decisions/choices.
I think this one is pretty confined to my region (southwestern USA) but we use Otto as the moniker of a generic stupid person too, but probably for a different reason: Otto is Oblivious to the Obvious
As someone with a brother named Kevin, I can confirm he’s doing his part to uphold that depiction.
In Israel it’s Plony Almony. Idk why. But it’s fun to say
In Finnish it’s Matti Meikäläinen for male and Maija Meikäläinen for woman. Matti Meikäläinen roughly translates to Matt Myself
So that might be Matty and Miya Meiikaalayinen. Dealing with diacritics from a language that has none is a bit tricky.
Am I even close?
In US legal cases, “John Doe”, “Jane Roe”, and similar names are used for pseudonymized legal parties.
For instance, the plaintiff in the famous abortion case Roe v. Wade was one Norma McCorvey, identified as “Jane Roe”.
A group of unidentified people appearing as plaintiffs or defendants may be called a group of “Does”, from the name John Doe.
The words doe and roe both refer to deer, which are common wild animals in North America — and as wild animals, represent an arbitrary unspecified person. A doe is a female deer; and while “roe” can also mean fish eggs, roe deer is a common European species of deer.
Good bot
