The mods of all the major communities there remove comments criticism Hexbear and usually follow it up with a ban. It’s absolutely clear what is happening and it shouldn’t be allowed to continue.

  • @IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    ml and Hexbear definitely don’t have the same users. Their comments look very different. Hexbear is far more extreme in every way.

    • @wesley@yall.theatl.social
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      481 year ago

      Hexbear is mostly just trolls in my experience. They like to brigade any discussion involving Russia, China, Ukraine, etc.

      Lemmy.ml is full of tankies that will also go out of their way to defend Russia and China but they aren’t just blatant trolls which is the difference.

      Having controversial opinions isn’t the problem, trolling and brigading are

      • @bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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        31 year ago

        I wonder who they were trolling and brigading in the years of their existence prior to them federating with anyone…

      • @stoly@lemmy.world
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        191 year ago

        This is also my take. Hex will troll you but ML folks actually think that you are an evil person because you don’t agree with them on some minor point.

        • @TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          actually think that you are an evil person because you don’t agree with them on some minor point.

          Right, this is the major issue for me. I am here for the community. This site doesn’t have half the content that Reddit has. We’re here on principle with each other. If you aren’t trying to make some kind of a connection with me as a person, if you get lost in some singular bullshit nonsense comment I wrote at 10AM on an idle Tuesday, if you start to attribute beliefs and opinions to me that I don’t have, if you’re not willing to reconcile and coexist, then I have no interest in engaging with you. Makes it real hard to engage with some folks - especially Hexbear.

    • Armok: God of BloodOP
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      231 year ago

      I would need pretty convincing evidence to believe that the major .ml communities don’t have at least one mod each with a Hexbear alt.

  • BrikoX
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    281 year ago

    Rules in question stated as a reason for removing the comments and temporary ban:

    1. No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
    2. Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.

    People can make their own conclusions.

      • Lath
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        131 year ago

        bigotry
        ˈbɪɡətri
        noun
        obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

        If the person in question went after them simply because they are part of the group called ‘tankies’, the first rule was broken.
        If the person in question was the first to throw out insults, the second rule was broken.

        If however the opposing group initiated the conflict, broke the same rules and was not punished, then the complaint here is fair and should be pursued in order to prevent an escalation of abuse.

        The nasty thing about bigotry is that by definition, it doesn’t matter which group is being discriminated against. It accepts all discrimination under its label.

        • @gedaliyah@lemmy.world
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          581 year ago

          We generally don’t consider something to be bigotry if it is directed at an ideology or behavior that people can control. Ability or disability, gender, religious/ethnic background, race, age, nationality, etc. are all factors that are beyond an individual’s control.

          • Lath
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            41 year ago

            Understandable, however, generalities sometimes aren’t enough in a court of law.
            The difference between the spirit and letter of the law allows for interpretations that don’t agree with each other. As we can see in this situation.

            And like it or not, this is a social court of law. Moderators and admins are judges who follow the rules and administer relative justice. You can either agree to give them the latitude to have their own interpretation of the rules as long as they stick to them, or you make concise rules that offer no room for discussion.

            You might say each instance can have its own rules and that is true, but when those written rules are the same and defederation starts to happen because there is disagreement on the meaning of those words, the “in general” part is going to be the mainstay of how rules are enforced.

            And, in general, that’s part of what causes societies to fall.

            • Lath
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              51 year ago

              You can try, within your interpretation of their rules. And if you get banned for that, take pictures.

            • @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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              371 year ago

              Of course not. They apply their rules subjectively.

              For instance I got rule 1’d for saying “Fuck China” but I bet you, you wouldn’t get banned for saying “Fuck America” or “Fuck Israel” (fuck ‘em all imo).

              • Lath
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                81 year ago

                If you have evidence of abuse and selective enforcement of the rules, show it in order to allow the admins to act on it.
                Don’t just lash out, document the exchange. Keep a record of the favouritism.

              • Lemminary
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                1 year ago

                I got rule 1 for posting an image of a yassified Patrick because I, a huge homo, may find discomfort in what gay memes I share, I guess!

    • Lemminary
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      191 year ago

      They can write whatever bullshit they want as a reason. If the comment is gone, who’s gonna check? Hell, who audits that at all?

  • Soullioness
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    901 year ago

    I’m all for defederating Hexbear, but lemmy.ml is absolutely huge compared to Hexbear. To motivate the community to do that you’d need quite a bit of proof. Or at least something rather compelling. Do you have any proof of what you’re referring to?

      • kbal
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        181 year ago

        While I agree that hexbear generally sucks, they and I do at least have an enemy in common. That ban is not so undeserved as I was led to expect.

          • kbal
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            171 year ago

            Tankies say all kinds of stupid things, but even if we grant the thus-far unproven assumption that the person being addressed there is among them, when they’re telling nazis to fuck off that is not an appropriate moment to try and start a pointless fight by asserting that they’re wrong about every single thing.

                • @Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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                  41 year ago

                  Don’t forget they openly root for Hamas, which will do way worse than just kill people for being queer.

                • @rambaroo@lemmynsfw.com
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                  1 year ago

                  So what? It’s no different from lemmy.world where the vast majority of users pay Palestinians lip service but get buttmad at the suggestion of holding the US government accountable for funding Israel, only because the man in office is their guy. You all are more than happy to sacrifice a few tens of thousands of Palestinians if it means you don’t have to criticize dear leader.

                  Most of you are gigantic hypocrites on the topic of genocide.

            • Lemminary
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              281 year ago

              It’s not about being wrong or right, it’s that their instance culture is aggressive, immature and arrogant from what I’ve seen. Those meme threads are done obnoxious circlejerks, dear god, I hope they’ve grown out of that at least.

      • Lemminary
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        301 year ago

        Lmao I’ve also been banned by rimjob from World News over the stupidest shit. And yes, he did cite some bullshit even thought I was clearly within the rules and arguing in good faith. How dare someone stand their ground against Bruce Almighty from World News! Not surprised.

        • @fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
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          31 year ago

          I had a bunch of reasonable posts deleted from World News. I just blocked it but defederating would be way better because then we can rebuild a healthier news community somewhere else.

    • RubberDuck
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      1 year ago

      Asking for proof of what is an open secret on lemmy seems disingenuous.

      I think that instances like hexbear, lemmygrad, and lemmy.ml are very bad advocates for Lemmy and will most likely end up damaging it more than anything else, keeping the “normies” out.

      They argue in Bad faith, say the most radical stuff they can think of, and purge anything bad said about totalitarian regimes they idolize. China, Russia, Iran, all considered victims of the evil west…

      • Uyghur camps > not happening
      • Tiannamen square > Just some peaceful protests
      • invasion of Ukraine > NATO forced Russia to do it
      • @matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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        71 year ago

        I would like to see proof of how a community doing its own thing of sharing their radical views on their instance is damaging.

        I haven’t seen any rampant behavior of lemmy.ml users going to other instances and dogpiling certain posts or comment section. That may be defederation worthy.

        • RubberDuck
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          The denial of having seen it yourself, is something I don’t believe. Therefore I don’t believe you made your reply in good faith.

          Not all of lemmy.ml is a cesspool filled with poisonous cretins, but they (tankies) control the instance at conversational, moderation and administration level. So it will not change, only get worse.

          Just like we see with the MAGAts… Once you start drinking your own coolaid… the sky is the limit.

          • @matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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            51 year ago

            The denial of having seen it yourself, is something I don’t believe.

            If it’s so rampant that you find it unbelievable I haven’t seen it, then it must be very easy to prove. Can you please provide a proof?

            but they (tankies) control the instance…

            It’s their instance. That’s not proper grounds for defederation in my opinion, when the damage is contained within their instance.

            • RubberDuck
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              101 year ago

              As I stated in my preface, no thank you.

              And if it is contained in their instance… it does not matter that the borders are guarded by deFederation.

              • @matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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                11 year ago

                No worries. I never expected you to have the proof anyways, but I wanted readers to be aware that you don’t.

                • RubberDuck
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                  1 year ago

                  That’s fair. I think most people can make up their own minds looking at the thread, posts contents and then their own experience in the .ml scape compared to the rest of Lemmy.

      • @Paragone@lemmy.world
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        111 year ago

        IF lemmy.ml is admin’d by the Lemmy devs, themselves,

        AND their ideology/prejudice is being obstructed by the Lemmy-verse,

        THEN wouldn’t it be rational for them to engineer-in to Lemmy, itself, protections for their ideology?

        Breaking the Fediverse’s ability to “manage” them?

        or breaking the Fediverse’s ability to have any alternative-ideology be its core??


        I’m thinking they could either adulterate privacy, deliberately, or they could force blocking to be porous, or something…


        IOW, I’m thinking that it is strategically-incompetent to allow tankies to own our core tech, exactly as it is strategically-incompetent to allow right-wing highjackers-of-our-countries to do so.

        ?

          • @Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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            71 year ago

            Yes, but for example if everyone is running the mainline code, and .ml decides they are going to run a version which does not respect federation updates under certain conditions, they could quietly poison the entire fediverse by spoofing updates from other instances. It’s very obvious that they are already selectively federating their modlog, for example. And some other instances already play games with how votes get reported. There is a lot of trust baked into the federation updates, and nobody knows how to exploit that better than dessalines, who is clearly very interested in using the platform to push a specific ideology.

            I am absolutely in favor of forking Lemmy to get this out of their hands, fwiw. Specifically for this reason. I think they’ve shown that they are not above poisoning the code base exactly like this.

      • Stamets
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        1 year ago

        I was banned from lemmy.ml for posting a meme about the fact that gay characters are removed from movies in China. Not even by a mod. By an admin. I’m not remotely surprised they’re pro-shitheap in general

        • Dandroid
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          191 year ago

          There is an admin on lemmy.ml that seems to be banning anyone who says anything negative about China. If I’m thinking of the right person, they are also a large contributor to the Lemmy codebase. That person is why I stopped donating to the Lemmy devs.

          • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏
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            81 year ago

            This kind of stuff is making me consider stopping my donations to the Lemmy project, and instead donating to the Sublinks drop-in replacement developed by the programming.dev instance admins

            • jgrim
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              1 year ago

              Hey, I’m the founder of Sublinks. It’s a huge collaboration of several major Lemmy instances like lemmy world, beehaw, discuss.online, programming.dev, and quite a few others that wish not to be named until the release.

              Some admins are directly working on the project while others are providing other types of support. @Ategon@programming.dev is certainly a major contributor and has helped develop the new front end in many major ways. You can follow some progress updates here: !sublinks@discuss.online

              We have several different teams of developers:

              1. API / Java
              2. Front-end / JS/CSS/HTML
              3. Federation / GoLang
              4. Libraries / JS
              5. Requirements gathering and organization
              6. Design & Graphics - UI/UX
              7. Lemmy to Sublinks migration tools

              There is an active community on Matrix where all of us chat: https://matrix.to/#/#sublinks:discuss.online if anyone is interested in joining. We also have weekly touch bases to discuss progress and next steps. There are tons of people contributing.

              We are currently taking donations only through Github: https://github.com/sponsors/sublinks if you’re truly interested. We’re all working on this part-time in our free time and making fantastic progress.

              Let me know if you have any questions!

      • Lemminary
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        Hexbear loves to dogpile as well. I’ve seen a couple of raiding threads linking to other threads in Lemmy.ml making fun of whoever. But in reality they’re just directing people over there to shit on someone. At least, that’s what I saw last year, so I’m very distrusting of them.

        That and the Lemmy.ml AMA thread where one admin was all buddy buddy with Hexabear users during their federation.

      • @GBU_28@lemm.ee
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        291 year ago

        Check my history, I called them out for the NATO one today and they threw all sorts of random shit at me that was off the central point, just looking for a mistake in my wording.

        • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          171 year ago

          Yep. They were claiming that Putin invaded Ukraine to stop fascists. And that they were liberators. I was like, why would one fascist care what other fascists do? In the US, our fascist, wealthy Republicans largely supported Hitler till pearl harbor. But I did agree with them that the Soviet Union absolutely liberated many countries against their will post WWII. And that those countries still hold it against them to this day.

          The gulags were mentioned and they were like, but but but America jails more! To which I told them that was bad. But the West doesn’t kill millions of prisoners the way they did. And all for political dissent, reminding them of just two weeks ago when Putin had Navalny killed for political dissent.

          The absurd thing is, I’m one hundred percent down for Marxism. And largely agree politically with his theory plus some modernization. So technically we would agree on a lot of things there. It’s just the Engles and Lenin bullshit I disagree with, and has shown to have failed. Or caused their downfall historically. But they are primarily leninists, dedicated ideologically to authoritarians and strongmen above all reality.

          • @beardown@lemm.ee
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            31 year ago

            But they are primarily leninists, dedicated ideologically to authoritarians and strongmen above all reality.

            Why does that mean they should be banned? Is speech that we agree with the only permitted speech?

            Just because you think they’re wrong doesn’t mean they should be banned. Banning them makes it look like we’re afraid of people reading their points, which gives them power and credibility

            • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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              81 year ago

              I have not commented on whether or not I think they should. Frankly I’m ambivalent. Considering many of the others that have been defederated. I think it’s kind of hypocritical that Lemmy.ml hasn’t. Personally though I don’t have need or desire to defederate them. It’s pretty easy, if annoying to poke holes in their arguments where important.

              However it’s important to remember that each server is answerable to it’s community and ownership. If world defederated from lemmy.ml you’d be unaffected. And seeing the disdain lemmy.ml has for many types of speech. I’m not overly motivated to make any case to keep them around either. Offering them what they deny others.

              • @beardown@lemm.ee
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                31 year ago

                Considering many of the others that have been defederated. I think it’s kind of hypocritical that Lemmy.ml hasn’t.

                So what? If it was wrong to defederate from those other instances then this can be wrong as well

                However it’s important to remember that each server is answerable to it’s community and ownership

                Or, more accurately, answerable to the appearance of a community and ownership. All of the major instances are heavily astroturfed by various state and corporate entities. Which includes both the United States/West and China/Russia. World is western aligned and ML is not. It’s a proxy war in cyberspace, same as occurs on reddit and Twitter and elsewhere. The solution to such a proxy war is not to cede all ground to the West - such action would not promote truth or critical thought

                • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                  61 year ago

                  It could be. It’s not. But it could have been.

                  And do you have any proof of that? I’ve not seen anything of the like. I’m Marxist myself. Just not Leninist. I have no major issues on world. I tend to get downvoted about equally from capitalist to leninist. Up voted too. I’ve not noticed any anti-left trend. Anti ml? Sure. But they are not left in any meaningful sense beyond nominally. Authoritarians always ape populist political trends. In order to take advantage of society. Hitler did it, Lenin and Stalin did too. Though, unlike Hitler, I believe Lenin actually genuinely wanted a good outcome. Despite his bad ideology.

            • @fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
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              61 year ago

              People should have free speech, governments shouldn’t have the ability to degrade our platform with shills and LLMs, especially if they’re spreading propaganda for dictatorships.

              • @beardown@lemm.ee
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                31 year ago

                governments shouldn’t have the ability to degrade our platform with shills and LLMs

                I agree, but that is exactly what the United States and the West does.

                China, Russia, and Iran do it as well, of course.

          • appel
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            31 year ago

            How can you agree with Marx and not with Engels? Engels practically did a large chunk of the philosophical heavy lifting for Marxism.

            • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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              21 year ago

              I know right, it’s almost like they’re two different people. gasp Wait a minute they are!

              Also, I wouldn’t call might makes right heavy philosophical lifting. There are less objectionable bits that Engles contributed. But some of the worst bits that led to the authoritarianism and brutality common in Marxist leninist structures is pretty strongly attached to him.

              • appel
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                21 year ago

                Are there any particular texts from Engels that you disagree with? I would be interested to know where you think the split is. From my reading, Engels was mostly involved in the philosophical and scientific side of the development of dialectical materialism and it’s application into Marxism. Eg. “Dialectics of Nature”, “The German ideology”, “Feuerbach and the end of German classical philosophy”,“anti-duhring” etc. I’m not sure where the apparent “brutality” is coming from here?

  • @daniskarma@lemmy.world
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    Lemmy.ml is a massive instance. I don’t really know where are you posting there, probably in political communities and thus this reaction. But I follow lots of communities that are hosted on Lemmy.ml and they are just normal communities about their topics, normally technology. I certainly do not want to lose those communities of having to move my accounts around just because you had some problems with some particular people. Block them yourself and move on.

    I don’t get why there’s always people in small places that are always doing their best to make them even smaller. Lots of goods things are lost this way. We must be clever in trying to preserve and make this good things thrive. And, believe me I’ve been in lots and lots and lots of small community driven projects, this kind of attitude is no good for them. You cannot take every small issue you have with some part of the project and say: “we do not work together anymore”.

    If there’s an issue let’s be constructive about it. But defederation of such a big instance with so many people and communities that just does not care about this drama… I don’t see how that helps lemmy as a whole.

    I suppose there’s a lot of political ideology behind what’s being ask for, and what’s being said. So I do not expect convince OP of anything, as those hard as steel political beliefs are inmutable. But I hope sanity and a wish for making Lemmy a big project of the kind of social networks we want in the future will prevail. Even if that means sharing space with people you don’t politically agree 100% about everything, because that’s how a community works, different people working together.

  • @taaz@biglemmowski.win
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    1571 year ago

    Welcome to federation, where basically every instance is a proxy to all others.

    Btw you are also free to block any instance yourself.

    • Ech
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      611 year ago

      Unfortunately blocking an instance only blocks posts on that instance, not users from it, which is the main issue people have with those instances.

      • Clay_pidgin
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        51 year ago

        I use Connect for Android, and when I block an instance it blocks the users too. Their comments are still here, but sort of spoiler tagged.

        • @fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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          111 year ago

          Yes but surely you can understand that even votes from these poorly moderated instances are distorting the discourse elsewhere in the lemmyverse.

          Just because you can’t see it does not mean the problem is solved.

          • @matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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            31 year ago

            So we wanna defederate to steer votes in a certain way? Worrying so much about votes is such redditor behavior.

            • @fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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              61 year ago

              I would challenge you to think about how votes can influence the culture of a community.

              You’re correct in that worrying about how many upvotes you can accumulate is very reddit.

              I’m not really talking about karma accumulation, but rather the way votes can influence visibility of comments. When done methodically, this promotes some ideas over others, and presents an illusion that “everyone else thinks so”. This is a very, very powerful way to influence a community.

              We are hard wired to absorb the opinions of those around us. Sure you can disagree with other group members, but even that is an acknowledgement that the alternative perspective you’re disagreeing with is a popular one.

              You could absolutely influence people’s opinions on lemmy just with a hacked instance that manipulated votes on comments by just a few dozen points.

              • @matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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                31 year ago

                You make valid points. Apologies for the Reddit accusation.

                But the one thing that comes to mind is that this kind of Communist, like in lemmy.ml, is not big enough to cause this sway.

                Sure, the instance is massive, but most users don’t hold those same beliefs. Most people go to it as the “default” instance. So I really don’t think they have the numbers to cause this issue.

                • @fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  41 year ago

                  Sure. This thread is talking about lemmy.ml, but I’m talking about the current state of the lemmyverse.

                  I’ve posted this elsewhere in this thread but my unpopular opinion is that federation by default is not sustainable.

                  Presently admins federate with everyone and blacklist those which are problematic.

                  It’s inevitable that in the near future someone with a rudimentary understanding of hosting will be able to spin up a dozen instances, each with a few thousand bot accounts, intent on upvoting every “genocide Joe biden” comment.

                  The fediverse will shatter. Admins will realise they need policies to guide their own moderation, and acknowledge that they can only federate with specific instances with compatible moderation.

                  So instead of blacklisting bad instances, you need to change to whitelisting good ones.

      • Draconic NEO
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        161 year ago

        Yeah it’s a very common misconception, I find it weird that people are still having it though when 0.19 is widely available.

        Maybe they’re just saying it as a way to be dismissive of the issue, this kind of stuff happens often when people report or call to attention malicious instances or malicious users.

          • ArxCyberwolf
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            91 year ago

            nor how letting a large, poorly moderated instance run wild can negatively affect discourse on the entire platform. Before Hexbear was defed’d on lemmy.ca, Lemmy was damn near unusable on many threads because of the spam and trolling. Blocking them doesn’t stop them from bothering those who haven’t and it affects the platform as a whole.

            • Draconic NEO
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              101 year ago

              Blocking is not a real solution, it is putting a blanket over the problem and pretending it went away. People who suggest you do that are suggesting you enable bad faith actors by ignoring their behavior, as opposed to reporting it and/or making others aware so they can report it. We all need to work better to make the platform and spaces on it better, if no one works at it, nothing gets better.

              • ArxCyberwolf
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                131 year ago

                Exactly! Letting problematic instances poison the well leads to a net negative to the platform.

                • @fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  101 year ago

                  My unpopular opinion: Federating with everyone by default is not sustainable.

                  It’s inevitable that the lemmyverse will shatter, and everyone will be better for it.

                  Instances will develop their own policies around moderation and behaviour, and federate with other instances with compatible policies.

                  Basically, federation only works if everyone is acting in good faith. It wouldn’t take much for a single entity acting in bad faith to fuck the entire fediverse presently.

                  Presently admits are blacklisting the bad faith instances. That’s going to change so admins whitelist compatible instances.

      • we is doomed!
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        61 year ago

        I think thays a good compromise. if you then have an issie with a particular user you can block them individually.

    • Draconic NEO
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      531 year ago

      Btw you are also free to block any instance yourself.

      Not how the instance blocking feature works. it’s a common misconception because people don’t read the docs and just assume it does what they think it does. From the News Section on Join-Lemmy:

      Users can now block instances. Similar to community blocks, it means that any posts from communities which are hosted on that instance are hidden. However the block doesn’t affect users from the blocked instance, their posts and comments can still be seen normally in other communities.

      It’s not an alternative or replacement to defederation, not even close. I’m really surprised this misconception still persists even after widespread adoption of 0.19.x across the Lemmy network.

      • @bouh@lemmy.world
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        121 year ago

        So you don’t care about the instance you want to ban all the users from there. That’s quite open minded and tolerant!

          • Draconic NEO
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            171 year ago

            Paradox of tolerance, if you tolerate the intolerant then tolerance quickly goes extinct.

            • @fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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              121 year ago

              Can we stop this please?

              It was never that revolutionary in the first place - “if you allow assholes to be assholes everything will go to shit” - I’m shocked.

              … but now, after seeing it as a reply to every second comment on lemmy, it’s just spam and doesn’t inform discussion in any way.

              • Draconic NEO
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                1 year ago

                Of course they didn’t, they’re just reactively replying to comments that trigger them hoping that the people they reply to also get triggered. They are a troll.

        • Draconic NEO
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          281 year ago

          @bouh@lemmy.world Lol look at you seething away, came here just to randomly attack people in a defederation thread.

          I know what triggers these types of responses to defederation, many people believe that the Fediverse was some grand user choice and free speech haven. Which is an incorrect assumption, by a long shot. The fediverse since it’s beginning has never been a free speech platform, and also like all other top down servers prioritizes admins, the people who pay the bills and are liable for what happens on their server. So when servers violate these rules and all other options have been exhausted or it is clear that they will continue causing issues persistently, servers are defederated to maintain the peace and safety of their server. One thing to make clear is that all users have the choice of signing up to a different server that does federate, and if they are the victim of one of these compromised/bad-faith servers, they really should consider doing that.

          That’s quite open minded and tolerant! Paradox of Tolerance

          • @bouh@lemmy.world
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            51 year ago

            I’m merely pointing the hypocrisy here. Some people on lemmy.world are litteraly on a witch hunt.

      • @h3ndrik@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Can you give us the name? I think just spreading FUD isn’t really helping and I also can’t do anything about it without more information.

          • @h3ndrik@feddit.de
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            71 year ago

            Thanks for the clarification, I think you should have made that a bit more clear in the comment.

            But I agree. We shouldn’t only not listen to nazis and other bad people, but actively not invite them to our home in the first place. In my opinion that means giving them the boot and then defederating once they accumulate on instance dedicated to their cause.

      • @matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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        91 year ago

        I would indeed say:

        • yep, definitely don’t join it
        • neonazi white supremacist is not the same as Communist
        • @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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          101 year ago

          Tankie is not the same as communist either. Tankies are genocide denial, authoritarian supporters, who are no better than Nazis.

          • @woelkchen@lemmy.worldM
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            121 year ago

            you’re fine with sharing spaces with neonazi white supremacists.

            I’m not sharing a space with them when I block them, duh.

            • @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.

              They would still be active on the site and harming the community at large, you personally would just be blind to it.

              • @sudneo@lemmy.world
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                51 year ago

                No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.

                Isn’t defederation the same thing? Users won’t disappear (and they can also create accounts elsewhere…).

                • @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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                  171 year ago

                  Blocked users or communities can still interact on the wider site and with you, you just won’t see them.

                  Defederated instances are completely barred from doing so.

                  It’s the difference between plugging your ears when someone else speaks vs locking them out of your house and not letting them get close.

              • @woelkchen@lemmy.worldM
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                1 year ago

                Have your instance block individual communities and users then.

                Blocking entire big-tent instances is “harming the community at large”.

                PS: Have fun on my block list. I’m not discussing any longer with someone who says I’m a neonazi sympathizer.

  • @A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
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    231 year ago

    I’ve been saying this for like 6 months.

    .ml is just a filter for Hexbear and lemmygrade users to infiltrate the greater federated instances.

  • @jabjoe@feddit.uk
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    1 year ago

    Ah! That makes sense. I was on world news of Lemmy.ml and the comments where full of nutters and/or troll farms. It was like gote/gout (or whatever it was called), another Reddit alternative I’ve tried that seamed to fill Nazis kicked off Reddit. I unsubscribed and blocked.

    Edit: Voat! That was it.

  • Extreme Soup
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    321 year ago

    Seems like they werent such big fans of your post. It has been removed from their instance and your account was banned. Very interesting 🤔

  • @hark@lemmy.world
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    231 year ago

    Your stance is basically: “I had disagreements with/don’t like users from an instance, please block an entire instance for all other users in the instance I’m in”. Why are you making your problems everyone else’s?

    • Armok: God of BloodOP
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      361 year ago

      My stance is that Hexbear is a bunch of fascists spreading their ideology and Lemmy.ml is helping them doing it by banning dissenters. I believe that freedom of speech only works with parity, and giving fascists a one-way echo chamber with which to spread fascism, deny genocide, brigade, and otherwise act in bad faith should be entirely unacceptable. People should not be getting posts from Lemmy.ml on their feeds because this “curated” discussion is basically the memetic equivalent of an engineered virus, and it cannot be allowed to spread.

      • @hark@lemmy.world
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        111 year ago

        It’s very easy to label people fascists as a generic “bad people” label and claim they’re arguing in bad faith based on nothing but your feelings. I could just as easily call you a fascist for trying to decide what everyone else on this instance gets to see and that you’re arguing in bad faith wanting vengeance because you threw a tantrum on another instance and got spanked for it.

        The most name-calling I see are from people like you who label anyone who disagrees with them a “fascist”, “shill”, “bot”, “tankie”, “wumao” or millions of other terms and I see so many posts getting downvoted for not following your desired narrative. We can see this happen in the posts right here.

        • Armok: God of BloodOP
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          261 year ago

          tankie:

          (politics, slang, derogatory, by extension) A supporter of authoritarian policies and actions by the Soviet Union, China, or other nominally socialist governments.

          fascism:

          Any right-wing, authoritarian, nationalist ideology characterized by centralized, totalitarian governance, strong regimentation of the economy and society, and repression of criticism or opposition.

          So yeah, Hexbear isn’t full of fascists, it’s full of tankies, which are just fascists with a socialist coat of paint. The fact that I’m doing this because I was actioned by a moderator acting as a tankie commissar doesn’t change the validity of my reasoning as to why being federated to Lemmy.ml is a problem.

          • @hark@lemmy.world
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            61 year ago

            and you think this entitles you to be commissar dictating what everyone on this instance gets to see or not see? If I call you fascist enough times, does that mean your posts can be blocked for everyone?

      • @rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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        71 year ago

        It would be better if you could just ignore them.

        In general this Lemmy architecture, presented as compromise, where instance admins have some power and defederation is a thing - I don’t like it. I understand it’s simpler to do, but socially it may just not be something that will work.

        IMHO user identities should be cryptographic, so should be community identities, and moderation should be done the same way as certificate revocation, and providing storage and connectivity shouldn’t be connected to moderation or identities.

  • @catch22@startrek.website
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    1241 year ago

    If they weren’t such weasels and actually agrued back rather than just ban people like the spineless dimwit twats they are, I’d say the argument that they are easily filtered holds. But given they are just looking to propagate their shilling for Russia, trump (and they definitely do this) etc… fuck em!

    • Even outside of their space, when they “argue” it had generally been posting giant, random images that had little to no context followed by walls of emojis. Which is why my blocklist is mostly Hexbear users.

    • @rambaroo@lemmynsfw.com
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      191 year ago

      Pretty damn rich coming from lemmy.world where you ban people for criticizing Biden

      All you dummies do when you ban and defederate is push more and more people into extremist communities.

      • @Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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        141 year ago

        If you can’t see how hexbear is mirroring trump rhetoric almost word for word then I don’t know what to tell you.

        • sovietknuckles[they/them]
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          11 year ago

          This wasn’t supposed to be hard. They said “and they definitely do this”, so I was hoping they would share a post or comment that lead them to that conclusion.

        • @Sootius@lemmy.world
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          71 year ago

          If that’s what’s happening, you’ll very easily be able to provide an example, rather than just asserting it.

        • @Mastengwe@lemm.ee
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          131 year ago

          They’re the new The_Donald, only they’re not even self aware enough to know they’re the bad guys.

          I’m not sure which is worse.

            • @Mastengwe@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Hmmm… brand new account- no content except to be contrarian to the topic…. I’ll entertain your bad-faith question….

              Go to those communities. There’s my example. All of it.

              • @kfconhexbear@lemmy.world
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                31 year ago

                Oh damn, what tipped you off? Was it the “hexbear” in my name? Link a single example. Go ahead, make me look like a fucking moron

        • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          71 year ago

          Are they mirroring trump rhetoric. Or is trump regurgitating talking points from his fascist idol. And ML are just so cultish, indoctrinated, anti West that they couldn’t not attack the west. Even if Russia is more clearly in the wrong on this issue.

          It’s more likely than them actually supporting trump. Honestly I think the only possible way you could say they support trump. Is that they understand that trump would destroy Western society and they approve of that. No matter who gets hurt in the process. Well actually when it comes to leninists it’s all about hurting people in the process really.

      • @catch22@startrek.website
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        Jesus fucking christ, this has comments talking about trump living rent free in muh libs heads

        https://hexbear.net/post/2090983

        You’re the same pack of fucking incels mixed in with the same russian shilling from 2016, that post was from an hour ago, took me seconds to find it

          • @catch22@startrek.website
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            61 year ago

            I really can’t be bothered going and finding all the pretty fucking obvious examples of you shitheads either apologising or glorifying putin, or coming out with pure incel stuff, or platforming trump. Which makes sense given it seems to be the same campaign as before, and its pretty fucking obvious at this point, very sloppy… I’ve clearly hit a nerve lol. It’d be great if you all could change track at this point and stop platforming that odious cunt, don’t worry I know there is unfortunately no option to stop shilling putin…

              • @catch22@startrek.website
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                11 year ago

                Assuming you’re not paid or being forced to do this, you must know you’re being used as a tool for the fascists you claim to despise. Platforming trump is support and I see there is no mention of the direct relationship to Putin in all the very loud refuting of this support…

                • Sybil
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                  31 year ago

                  I thought the Mueller report exonerated him. anyway it’s not as though anybody’s supporting Russia or Putin or Trump in these comments. we just know the Democrats are bad and aren’t afraid to say it.

    • @4am@lemm.ee
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      391 year ago

      Yes, leftists famously LOVE Donald Trump 🤣

      This is the most Reddit radlib shit I’ve seen over here yet. Grow up my dude

      • @Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        531 year ago

        Hexbears arent lefties. They are hiding behind acting like they are lefties while at the same time sucking up to the most fascist regimes on earth.

      • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin
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        1 year ago

        They sure seem to like him a lot better than voting in solidarity with the people who’s lives he threatens!

        Or maybe I should refine to White “Leftists” since everyone else need not be told why that’s so fucking stupid.

      • @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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        1281 year ago

        Lemmy.ml are tankies first and foremost. They’ll defend anything that Russia/China thinks is good.

        Calling them leftists is an insult to the rest of us who aren’t authie chuds.

  • @assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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    391 year ago

    Well, the discussion in this thread has convinced me to agree. It’s also readily apparent that ml thinks any criticism against them is because they’re leftist. They can’t fathom that anyone could think they’re an asshole or authoritarian apologist.

    • @fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
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      41 year ago

      They don’t think that, they aren’t actually leftists and they know it. They’re masquerading as leftists and using that as a cover for spreading authoritarian propaganda. It’s intentional, they know precisely what they’re doing.

      If you try to talk to them about it they’ll argue in bad faith and try to waste your time.