*In terms of privacy, customisation, camera quality, and battery time.
For the longest time I have only used either iPhone or Samsung. I plan on switching to Android for the next phone I get, but I find that Samsung phones are often too big for me and put too much energy on camera quality (I don’t take many photos). I have started to look into brands such as Nokia and Motorola, and I would like to know what you guys think of them. Additionally, do you suggest any other phone brands aside from them? My biggest priorities are privacy and long battery time. Bonus if the phone can run LineageOS (I have excluded Graphene as they are only compatible with Pixel phones).
Thank you for any answers. Cheers!
If privacy is important, a custom ROM is highly recommended or rather mandatory. Most brands have locked boot loader which can’t be unlocked immediately without voiding warranty. Some let you to using some bs proprietary software but only after few months. That was the only reason I had to resort to getting a pixel. So look into all the brands available to you and check their policy on custom rooms before looking into the mobile themselves.
adb debloating is adequate.
there may be additional steps for LOS privacy.If you don’t remove play service and shit without being unable to use payment apps and other shut, it’s not gonna work for majority. Those are worst offenders that have to be removed for privacy.
Custom ROM support relies a lot on a phone either being unique in some nerdy kind of way or having widespread community interest (especially appeal to Indian consumers since many community developers are Indian). The Google Pixel and Fairphone lines consistently have great support due to the first reason, while cheaper Chinese brands often have decent support for the second reason. Nokia is in a bad position in both respects - its phones are neither interesting or particularly cheap/good value for money - so its support is generally pretty bad.
If you plan to just use a phone with the stock ROM then they are all equally bad when it comes to leakage to Google. However brands that try hard to force you into their heavily modified Android ecosystems like Samsung and Xiaomi are particularly bad for privacy since they have a ton of extra data collection built in that is either forced or suggested to you quite heavily (many features are locked behind additional privacy policies and account logins). You are better off going with something as light as possible in that case. Since you mentioned Motorola, I’ll add that I have a razr 2023 and beyond a few optional apps that I can disable, it is pretty standard Android with no additional data collection or accounts required. Motorola phones can have dogshit software support, though. Like this one I have is less than a year old and it’s already taking them 4 months to push an update.
casts protect
iPhone
This made me laugh
In regards to stock systems, I agree.
Been stuck in the convenient ecosystem for a while, and I cope by telling myself Apple makes the bulk of its money with hardware and services. Not ads like Google. But if I would start over from zero, I think Graphene OS and Linux would be the way. But migrating the whole family away from our current Apple line up - I dread that challenge.
Eh, you can always start with yourself. Let the rest make their own decisions.
The thing about the Apple experience is that it doesn’t only integrate well among your own devices, but also others. Being isolated from that can be pretty challenging, especially if you are the only one in the family. Unless you come up with a whole marketing concept to make the change seem attractive to other (not techy) family members, you’d be cycling uphill.
Can you be more specific?
I’ve heard this argument, but AFAIK the main things are iMessage and FaceTime. I don’t know about your family, but I generally don’t want FaceTime most of the time. I haven’t used iMessage, but it seems like Signal is a drop in replacement, and the benefits are compatibility with Android and desktop apps for Windows and Linux.
Perhaps the play is to switch one app at a time. That’s what I’m going to try to get ready to leave Android for Linux phones (assuming they’ll be daily-driveable at some point).
iMessage and FaceTime are really not that relevant outside the US and, as you said, can be relatively easily replaced by Signal. As another commenter pointed out, it’s more about little things like Airdrop or iCloud’s all around seamlessness that cannot be matched by anything else I’ve tried. Family sharing alone would be a major loss if I were to switch. What Google or Microsoft have to offer in that regard is laughable in comparison (not that they’re any more “private”), and AFAIK, there is no FOSS alternative all of the iCloud family sharing functionality.
Makes sense, thanks for elaborating.
I’ll have to look into the FOSS tools to see what could be a reasonable set of alternatives. Some initial thoughts:
- KDE Connect - connects phone to Linux computer in an interesting way - easy to send files, see SMS, and a couple other things; it’s a bit chunky, but maybe something I could help with
- restic - automatic backup for desktop; pair with Syncthing to automatically keep stuff on your phone synced with your desktop
- Steam now has better family sharing, and you could set something like Plex up to handle video streaming for owned content
But each of these are a bit inconvenient compared to what Apple offers. I’ll think about it some more, and maybe I’ll try building something. My kids will be getting old enough to have phones in a couple years, and I’d really rather avoid Apple’s ecosystem, but their friends will likely all have iPhones so I’ll want a reason for them to prefer something else.
I already use KDE Connect to exchange files with my Linux laptop and it’s not the best, but it’s good enough for the occasional thing.
Steam is not a solution IMO because it locks you in just as much as Apple while being clunky and giving you the illusion of choice. And it’s only for games. Family sharing on Apple products is more than games. If you’ve bought apps or subscriptions, you can share them with family members at no additional cost (if the app opts into that which is disclosed to you very clearly in the App Store). Screen Time is great to block apps above a certain age rating and to restrict or outright block purchases for children. Another thing is location sharing in the Find My app. I know there are many solutions for that, but I just like the UX in the Find My app a lot more.
About the Plex server, I’ve heard they’ve changed their TOS and are now pretty shady or something. Also, if I were to make a server like that, I’d be pirating stuff anyway which I already do through my go-to pseudo-streaming piracy sites.
I could see myself hosting a Synology NAS in the future, but that is still not as convenient or well thought out as the iCloud services tbh.
There’s the little things like airdrop as well
I guess there’s not a super convenient alternative, but maybe something like Syncthing would be close enough?
But yeah, any kind of data synchronization or resource sharing is a little awkward.
deleted by creator
graphene or calyxos is out
Graphene can run actual Google Play services sandboxed, so you might be in luck. I think CalyxOS has Google Play installed by default, so they may work as well, though it doesn’t seem to be sandboxed. DivestOS may be an option as well.
Here’s the page I’m pulling this from, I don’t have any actual experience here (though planning to get a phone with an unlocked bootloader soon).
hoping in 5+ years time when my phone stops getting updates, that things will be a lot better in the linux mobile space
That’s what I thought 4-ish years ago when I bought my current phone when I realized PinePhone wasn’t going to be daily driveable, but things don’t seem to have changed much (MMS seems to have gotten better, but still incomplete). Now I’m ready to replace it, and Linux phones still aren’t daily driveable for me, but it’s much better than before.
I’m still hopeful, but a little less excited than I was 4 years ago.
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second hand Xiaomi + flash Lineage, good hardware for the price, community support
I don’t get people claiming stock iPhone is private. We literally have very little idea. It’s a closed system. It’s private if you take Apple’s word but all the other manufacturers also have similar claims. Why trust Apple and not them?
On top of that you end up locked into their ecosystem, unable to use most FOSS applications or have cut down versions of them because daddy Apple didn’t like some features.
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Why not Apple devices?
iPhone does not allow you to have privacy due to its blackbox nature, and is simply a false marketing assurance by Apple to you. Recently, an unpatchable hardware flaw was discovered in Apple’s T1 and T2 “security” chips, rendering Apple devices critically vulnerable.
Also, they recently dropped plan for encrypting iCloud backups after FBI complained. They also collect and sell data quite a lot. Siri still records conversations 9 months after Apple promised not to do it. Apple Mail app is vulnerable, yet Apple stays in denial.
Also, Apple sells certificates to third-party developers that allow them to track users, The San Ferdandino shooter publicity stunt was completely fraudulent, and Louis Rossmann dismantled Apple’s PR stunt “repair program”.
Apple’s authorised repair leaked a customer’s sex tape during iPhone repair. This is how much they respect your privacy. You want to know how much more they respect your privacy? Apple’s Big Sur(veillance) fiasco seemed not enough, it seems. Still not enough to make your eyes pop wide open?
Apple’s CSAM mandatory scanning of your local storage is a fiasco that will echo forever. This blog article should be of help. But they lied how their system was never hacked. I doubt. They even removed CSAM protection references off of their website for some reason.
Pretty sure atleast the most coveted privacy innovation of App Tracking protection with one button tracking denial would work, right? Pure. Privacy. Theater.
Surely this benevolent company blocked and destroyed Facebook and Google’s ad network ecosystem by blocking all those bad trackers and ads. Sigh. Nope. Now it is just Apple having monopoly over your monetised data.
Also, Android’s open source nature is starting to pay off in the long run. Apple 0-day exploits are far cheaper to do than Android.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Apple’s authorised repair leaked a customer’s sex tape during iPhone repair.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Apple’s authorised repair leaked a customer’s sex tape during iPhone repair.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
A friend told me there’s no point in stealing them as it’s impossible to unlock or wipe them, which would give them the edge at least in that respect. Is this accurate?
This is accurate, it is also accurate for (at least some part of) android though… Going into recovery boot requires the phone pin for my mid-range phone. Hell even turning off the phone can be set to require pin or biometric.
The turning off part is completely stupid though, nearly every phone has a button combo to hard power off (usually power + either vol up or vol down).
Yes iPhones are secure but not private. The two are related but different concepts. I’m not sure what exactly your friend is referring to though.
He’s referring to how, if you are signed into an Apple ID and have a passcode, there really is no way to use the phone if you steal it (to my knowledge). The device is a complete brick if you don’t have the Apple ID credentials.
Oneplus with lineage os is pretty good but they sorta make it a pain to unlock the bootloader if the phone was not originally factory unlocked.
What phone brand do you like the best?
(I have excluded Graphene as they are only compatible with Pixel phones).
You’re asking this on the privacy mag and intentionally/explicitly exclude the best privacy option with no explanation.
Wtf.
GrapheneOS isn’t a phone brand.
It might as well be since it only works on Google Pixels.
best privacy option
Who declared this? You? Daniel Micay? His sockpuppet troll army?
HTC (Wildfire, Desire Z, [rip!]), Samsung (they are/were easy to flash; S3, S5, S7, A5 2017).
I once had Nexus 5 (by LG [rip!]) - I was disappointed, poor quality.Nowadays, you should have control of a baseband firmware too!
So, looks like the Pixels are the best option.Why exclude GrapheneOS? It’s a really good mobile OS, and the creator has given his reasons for only supporting Pixels.
His reasons are – I fantasise Google, I love Big Tech security chips, I believe in West, China is evil, I did not get a billion dollar career out of making a Linux kernel patch so I will whine and harass internet people into liking my worthless custom Android build, hide behind my troll army and scare people into thinking my solution is the only solution to get mobile security.
GrapheneOS is pure snake oil with a disgusting sole developer that believes in pushing corporate Big Tech propaganda, harassing and witch hunting any critics, having a little social media army with sockpuppets to do this, abuses mentally challenged by hiding behind “autism” label (Louis Rossmann has a nice video), falsely claims he was swatted without giving evidence or coverage in local Canadian media and blames everyone from redditors to community mods to YouTubers and so on. It has been 10 months at this point since the claim.
I covered this disease for about 5 years, and it emanates from the same sewer that “security” clowns like Brad Spengler and madaidan do in Linux community. All they do is either push their bullshit solutions or push corporate Big Tech propaganda and hate any FOSS project they think will not worship them.
https://old.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/ug9qnc/writeup_criticism_of_rprivacyguides_grapheneos/
One thing GrapheneOS propaganda posters also do is sell you the lie that it is the only thing that can give you any mobile privacy and security. Everything else is a failed joke and this thing is the only thing that works. They go to lengths of telling people to fly to other countries to get a Pixel. https://i.imgur.com/Yv9nvxy.jpg And they make fake claims about buying $1 million Israeli Cellebrite kits and them not working against GrapheneOS’ “Titan” security for bootloader and other kinds of attacks. https://i.imgur.com/woNxPhx.jpg
Are you good bro? You’re putting a LOT of words in somebody else’s mouth and your sources here don’t really back up your argument
Dismissing years of evidence with pseudo intellectual trolling is disgusting. All the evidence is objective and mostly directly quotes the discussed parties. Are you sure you are not smoking stuff?
If you mention Graph<nospam>eneOS, you summon him. Check his history
So I’ve gone back and forth between Apple and Android for the past decade and a half: I currently daily an iPhone 12 mini because I like the UI, size, ease of use, and the fact that I don’t use my phone as a multimedia device. If I could do akin to GrapheneOS or CalyxOS on iPhone I’d stick to it.
In the future once my iPhone breaks or finally becomes obsolete, I intend to go to either a used Pixel or a Fairphone. Both are supported by secure OSs but I also dislike how big both of them are.
TLDR: love iPhones, appreciate Fairphones.
Well Nokia is a no no They don’t allow bootloader unlock, I would recommend that you check which privacy oriented custom ROM you want to install and check the supported phones they have listed and buy one of those models for installing the ROM
The hardware is wholly unremarkable, but the pixel line supports Graphene. Custom Roms are a necessity if you care about privacy even a little bit, but there are other options.
Unfortunately in many places, illegal searches are the rule, not the exception and as such security is almost as critical. If you need security AND privacy there is simply no substitute.
Motorola hardware looks kinda nice though…
Be careful with Motorola, here’s a Louis Rossmann rant about Lenovo/Motorola sucking, and here’s the official unlocking policy and procedure he mentioned. Some specific issues to call out:
- need to wait a week before unlocking the bootloader after purchase
- you lose your Motorola warranty
- you cannot sell or transfer your unlocked device (in linked legal agreement)
That’s pretty scummy IMO, and why I’m not interested in Motorola devices. I don’t intend to ever use the warranty or sell my phone, but I’m not okay with that being a legally binding agreement.
you cannot sell or transfer your unlocked device (in linked legal agreement)
The fuck? There’s no way they can forbid doing that, right? Video game publishers would be all over that with physical discs to make it the same as for digital releases.
Unlocked meaning you’ve unlocked the bootloader. So if you want to flash your own ROM, you agree not selling your device.
I’m not sure if it’s enforceable, but it certainly chills people from trying.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
here’s a Louis Rossmann rant about Lenovo/Motorola sucking
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Not under your specs but the Sony Xperia line offers a headphone jack + microSD, can be unlocked, & has flagship specs (1 & 5). The 5 & 10 models are also smaller devices that actually fit in one hand too. This characteristic combo does not come in the other models folks are suggesting. Older models have LineageOS for microG support if you want an ungoogled phone (but beware the stock camera app is trash).
i loved my XZ2 Compact SO MUCH and then all the carriers in my country simultaneously dropped voice calling support for it. i’m still so salty
Because we need innovation, even if we got on just fine then
For Privacy?
Not e2ee. Can be tapped.
Only with physical access, which nowaday nobody does.
Nah, just ask the telecoms nicely and they’ll give you whatever stream you want.
I wouldn’t put it past an insurance company.
