48 seconds. I predict a glut of helium. balloons for everyone
Think of all the houses they could heat with that!
We have a fusion reactor in the middle of our solar system solving the spicy half of the problem already. If we are having a solar heat capture problem, how is a new source of virtually unlimited power (and heat) here going to work? How is superconductivity coming along to help mitigate this?
God not this shit again.
I mean, some people genuinely don’t get it. If you’ve got a good answer, give it.
Because the problem fusion reactors will solve isn’t free energy. We already have that, like you suggest. Solar, wind, geo thermal, hydro power, oceanic tide harvesting, and to a certain extent nuclear…all of that is free energy waiting to be harnessed.
The problems it solves include packaging (think footprint for a solar farm power plant), radio activity (like fission power plants), predictability ( solar, wind, etc), and location (hydro). Fusion puts clean power plants anywhere you want them, safely and reliably.
All of these allow you to advocate for a functioning power plant to governments and citizens without any drawbacks besides costs to build and maintain. It’s an easier sell than any other power in existence. It runs off of water.
It runs off of water.
…and lithium. At least the current generation. While there’s plenty of deuterium in the oceans (left over from the big bang, or at least that’s the best theory we’ve got) tritium is a completely different matter: It’s extremely rare because it’s not stable with quite low half-life (12.32 years). If you throw a neutron at lithium though you get helium and tritium, and deuterium+tritium fusion happens to produce neutrons. All that btw yes is a bit radioactive the radiation safety requirements of a fusion reactor are ballpark those of the radiology department in your local hospital.
Right, for the sake of brevity and not talking past my knowledge base, I was omitting that part. I knew that the deuterium reaction was coupled with tritium but I didn’t know we had to use a precursor reaction to get the tritium. That’s really neat knowledge.
We don’t have sufficient political will to use the sun. This hopefully provides an alternative.
That doesn’t sound like cold fusion.
Where do you see it being called cold fusion anywhere?
Because it actually works?
Can’t wait for fusion reactors to not be thing for another 50 years at the very least.
Better in 50 years than never
100 million degrees C
Sounds hot.
Nah. Not that hot. Now 100 million kelvin, THAT is hot!
C is hotter than K, and F is a mess.
F is just salty
Can we get some Fs in chat?
100 million Kelvin is 99,999,726.85 degrees Celsius. The difference is like 0.003%, a rounding error.
Also 100 million Celsius is slightly hotter than 100m Kelvin
Sounds hot.
You should see it in a bikini.
One day we will break that record and nobody will ever know again.
Stage three: make everyone on earth sound like a freaked out anime character.
Success.
Soooo, we will all start sounding like Alvin and the Chipmunks soon?
I’d love to see an operating fusion reactor in my lifetime. Real sci-fi technology
Probably going to happen. Proxima Fusion is eyeing early 2030s for a commercial prototype and those aren’t venture capital techbros, it’s a Max Planck institute spin-out. About as hard science as you can get. Wendelstein 7X has shown that the approach works, the thing exceeded all expectations (that is: It behaves exactly as computer models said it would) and scales up without nasty surprises (much unlike tokamaks) so they’re done with the tech fundamentals now it’s about engineering something cost competitive, think requirements such as replacement parts the reactor will regularly need not exceeding electricity market prices.
Even if it’s not commercially available in the next 10 years or so, an actual sustained fusion reaction would change the world overnight. It’s crazy how close we’re getting…
really hoping ITER pulls it off or they make a new breakthrough design.
I am quite positive I’ll see reliable, sustained fusion reactions in my lifetime.
I’m also pretty positive it’ll be useless as an energy source. Still could be useful for other things though.
Why? Converting heat into electricity is the easy part, it requires no new tech
That’s not the stumbling block for fusion. Getting significantly more energy out than we put in is the issue. Other technologies did this better, and those other technologies are advancing more quickly as well.
That’s not to say it’s not worth trying since nothing ventured nothing gained. There are other technological advancements that will likely come from our progressions in fusion too which will be great. I just don’t see fusion as being a good way to generate energy.
I’m also pretty positive it’ll be useless as an energy source.
Why? Honestly curious.
I don’t think we’ll get to the point where the energy that comes out will be higher enough than the energy put in to justify its use compared to other energy sources.
I don’t think we’ll get to the point where the energy that comes out will be higher enough than the energy put in to justify its use compared to other energy sources.
They also used to say Man will never fly.
Technically, just give it time. Politically, that’s a whole other matter.
They also used to say Man will never fly.
Sure… I’m not saying fusion will never happen (it already does of course) or even that it’ll never be net positive for energy.
Just that, for energy it’s looking to be worse than most other options.
So I’m not saying man will never fly, I’m saying something closer to flying cars won’t happen. It’s not that we couldn’t do it, just that the alternatives are better.
just that the alternatives are better.
I’m not sure how you can judge that, against something that doesn’t exist yet.
I’m not sure how you can judge that, against something that doesn’t exist yet.
Simply based on past and current trends. The advancement curve on fusion would need to really step it up and if we say that it can, then we also need to accept the same is possible for the alternatives which means fusion still lags behind.
Fusion would need to be extra special somehow, and from what’s happened so far, it seems less special than the rest if anything.
Naturally this is all speculative of course, and being wrong on this is great either way as one way or another we will continue to get better at getting energy.
Seems pretty useful to me, considering you only exist because of fusion.
I’m specifically referring to man-made fusion as an energy source… Otherwise essentially all of our energy sources could be called “fusion” since they all trace back to it in one way or another.
Currently reading news and communicating with people around the world from the privacy of my toilet using my hand terminal. It can also understand what I am saying and excecute my spoken commands (to some extent at least). That’s some Sci fi shit right there. Pun intended
Wireless tablets were peak Sci fi at one point.
Now we have the technology that I could make an e-ink reading tablet the size of a star trek TOS/TNG PADD, and it would probably have enough battery to last 6 months just because of all the extra space.
I had this thought recently watching a video about the Apple Vision Pro. If I saw some corpo in Cyberpjnk 2077 using that exact device, I wouldn’t bat an eyelash.
Do I want one? No. Is it from the future? Yes.
I still find it a dream for the future.
Do I want one? No. Do I want what it may turn into? I can’t wait to find out
Currently reading news and communicating with people around the world from the privacy of my toilet
That’s some Sci fi shit right there. Pun intended
Well played, sir/madam. Well, played.
Nice. Let’s use it for shit posting and spreading misinformation
Porn, don’t forget porn. So much porn
Same is true for the printing press.
When will people understand that our tools are not the problem? It’s us!
It’s seriously insane growing up on star trek and then seeing it come to life.
Still holding out for flying cars.
And warp drive!
And warp drive!
I’d take a jump drive, if warp isn’t available.
I don’t want flying cars because I don’t want 95% of the people around me to be driving regular cars. Can’t even use a turn signal and now they have carte blanche to drive over houses and shit?
The answer is mass transit. Mag-rail, not personal aviation.
Yeah, motherfuckers can’t even drive in two dimensions. Adding a third would be a clusterfuck of galactic proportions.
Unfortunately the limiting factor on flying cars is the drivers. And the limiting factor on warp drive is the science not turning out to be a scam.
I could see AI at least solving the former.
I mean flying cars are basically just helicopters.
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I’m waiting for the post-scarcity stuff 😭
The post-scarcity utopia only happens after the Eugenics Wars and that whole Khan thing, mind you…
portable fusion reactors will not happen in your lifetime unless you’re like 15 or something. look at how long it took for computers to evolve.
You forget that technological progression is typically exponential as developed technologies each help to advance each other, and our collective base of theory grows. I also feel like machine learning can tip that curve a bit like it’s currently doing in things like protein research.
How is Moores law doing these days?
I think VR + generative AI is a clear pathway to Star Trek’s holodecks. Imagine being able to just say “I want to play a game I’ve never played before, in an Amazonian rainforest”, and then the AI renders the game and environment for you in VR. We’re genuinely very close to that reality.
Your toilet understands you? Sweet
Emotionally? No. Linguistically, sure.
48 seconds at those temperatures is no joke, that is pretty amazing. I didn’t see the article elaborate on what the current limiting factors are for pushing beyond 48 seconds. Like I wonder if it’s a hard wall, a new engineering challenge, a tweak needed, etc. this is the reactor that set the last record so they are doing something really right.
Last one I read about is just constantly and very quickly (far quicker than human abilities) adjust the magnetic field around the plasma in order to keep it stable and in place. They’ve been (or at least one team was) using AI to go over data and control and predict the field adjustments, because only reacting after the plasma starts to move hasn’t been quick enough.
Yes, that’d be TAE technologies.
The algorithm was called the optometrist, it was paired with a human operator to more quickly converge on the correct settings for stable plasma by having the machine randomly tweak various meta-parameters, while the human would generally decide whether the current settings were “better” or “worse” than the previous pulse.
I wonder if there isn’t a stable chamber shape that promotes turbulence in a controlled manner in order to prevent it getting out of hand? A little bit like the dimples on a golf ball create micro pockets of turbulence promoting laminar flow.
Unknown. There were attempts into that general idea, one of them is the polywell, but I don’t know too much about it.
(The article touches on this bit a little) I was watching something about fusion the other day and it seems that it is super tricky to keep the magnetic field balanced in a way that keeps the plasma in a proper toroid. Not only does it need to keep the correct strength, it has to fight against random turbulence. This is critical to start the reaction, but also to maintain it.
Also, they gave some other physical limitations in the article as well:
To extend their plasma’s burning time from the previous record-breaking run, the scientists tweaked aspects of their reactor’s design, including replacing carbon with tungsten to improve the efficiency of the tokamak’s “divertors,” which extract heat and ash from the reactor.
Basically, it’s the container that has limitations as containing a pseudo-sun probably isn’t easy.
According to another commenter the heat generated is 7 times that of the core of the sun. Considering we use the sun in sci fi to destroy anything that can’t be destroyed by other means, controlling that level of heat seems like a real challenge
Yeah. Actually using that heat is the next challenge, I suppose. If I am not mistaken (and I am often mistaken), they are not actually using the reaction to power the reactor yet.
It’s all math, basically. If they measure more energy coming out than they put in, it’s considered a win.
How would they use it to power a reactor? Is it like a regular nuclear reactor where you essentially boil water to power a steam turbine?
I swear a part of my inner child died the day I found out that nuclear reactors are essentially big kettles.
It’s likely going to create steam, just like a reactor today. It is a very effective way to turn a turbine for a generator, after all. All the bits that actually start and maintain the reaction need fuck tons of electricity, so the reaction can literally power itself when attached to a generator.
While there are a ton of formulas for converting energy from heat, to steam, to mechanical energy and then into electricity, it’s all basically the same: more power out than you put in is a good reaction.
Almost forgot, water is dual function. It cools the equipment and it acts as an energy transport. I believe ammonia is more efficient in some circumstances, but water is better for obvious reasons.
Yeah, I mean it makes sense. My inner child wants there to be some sort of magic that splits the atomic nucleus (or in the case of fusion… well you know) and harnesses the energy through some sort of fancy magical-to-us-commonfolk process.
Kettles are great, but not whimsical or fantastic.
How the heat is generated is still wicked-cool and is basically magic. Think about it this way: We are holding a toroid shaped micro-sun in place with magnets. Those magnets need to be adjusted hundreds of times a second to keep everything in its place. Sure, it just boils water, but how it boils water is where the real magic is.
We are building atoms by taking control of the core of a star.
They most likely ran out if liquid helium as the world is running out of the stuff at an alarming rate
Fusion uses hydrogen and produces helium
They use liquid helium to cool the super magnets…
Sure, but why does that mean they must be losing the helium each time? I don’t know anything about liquid helium and super conductors, but I know I don’t need to replace my radiator fluid just because it cooled my engine.
Once used, it need to be cooled down to -252c to be reused. Not like a closed loop of oil
Alright, did some research, first off you’re wrong about this being the reason even if this was a plausible reason. The real reason is the ash and heat divertors failed.
Second, you don’t even need liquid helium for super conduction. Here’s a few closed loop helium gas coolers that get to 10 kelvin. They need to be refilled on the scale of years, not from a single test.
https://www.arscryo.com/closed-cycle-cryocoolers https://stirlingcryogenics.com/products/closed-loop-helium-gas-cooling-system/
I get you care deeply about helium loss but this is the last thing you should be accidentally spreading misinformation about. This process literally creates more helium then it uses.
I didn’t say they did, just said probably, I’m just a stupid redneck.
Oh and how do we capture said multi thousand deg helium?
Sure, but they don’t consume it, and let it just boil off. They have massive refrigerant setups to bring it down to temp and keep it there.
This is such a ridiculous comment. I can literally go on Amazon and buy some helium right now. You really think if that’s possible, a cutting edge research lab would run out of the stuff?
Sure, it’s limited and getting scarcer, but no one’s running out yet.
That doesn’t mean that they didn’t have enough. The world being in the process of losing helium as a whole doesn’t mean these researchers “ran out” of it. If they knew they needed it, they would have purchased it, so unless the world has run out of helium already then they didn’t run out of it. You act like noone there could calculate exactly how much helium this uses per second and just buy x seconds worth of helium.
OK let me rephrase, they ran out of usable liquid helium. You do realise LH is the coldest known substance known. If you have 5L of usable LH once you use the 5L and turn it into a gas it is no longer -254c A sing use of an MRI uses 2000L at say the low end of cost of $30 so $60,000 and that is at room temps now add a few thousand degrees…
A single use of an MRI doesn’t use 2000 liters, that is the upper end of a hospitals ENTIRE supply of helium. On average an MRI users 70 Liters per MONTH of operation. You’re literally just spewing bullshit at this point, have a fun time being completely misinformed on things that upset you greatly, I’m going to go play games
You are right. In a sense, they have to reclaim the helium. It takes 2,000L to run it, they reclaim it compress/cool then reuse it. That 70 L/month is what they loose after use.
Do some reading before being an ass
Can’t be good for our global warming problem, amirite?
Lol ironic isn’t it, considering easy access to fusion power would basically solve the climate crisis.
If you had a bunch of fusion plants running AC units could you reverse global warming?
Ignoring actual practicality… I guess you could run a heat exchanger and dump all the energy into a tiny object then shoot it into space
If you do it in a direction to increase Earth’s orbiting speed it would move us farther away from the sun too.
Not the timezones!
Unfortunately the amount of helium made in fusion is so small as to be useless for anything humans need. Fusion is just that efficient.
So no chipmunk voices? 😢
We actually get all of our helium from mining, trapped gas. And we’re running out of the easy to reach stuff. So yes, no more chipmunk voices.
But they’re similar gasses that can do the same thing and even ones that make your voice deeper.
Yes! I’ve heard. I would love to try some of that.
Always careful with gasses. You basically replace a certain amount of capacity in your lungs with them, so you can very much suffocate yourself if you overdo it.
Only for chipmunks for now.
They use orders of magnitude more liquid helium to cool the magnets used to stabalize fusion than they would ever make.
I’ll be excited if/when they can harness the power. PS the world is running out of liquid helium that is used to cool the magnets
You do realize that the creation of infinite free fusion power will not reduce your powerbill one penny, right?
Better stop scientific advances then
Shit, all we get is limitless, carbon free energy?
I’m not sure what you mean by infinite free fusion power.
Don’t care. It’ll still be cool to have a star powering up my gaming pc
Now this is just vibes based… But I imagine “functionally limitless high output clean energy” would probably solve the “supply side” of the “supply and demand” equation pretty quickly. More, cheaper, cleaner, energy would certainly be less expensive to the consumer than less, more expensive production.
The faster I get my steak the better
