The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that reject God’s plan for human life.
The Vatican’s doctrine office issued “Infinite Dignity,” a 20-page declaration that has been in the works for five years. After substantial revision in recent months, it was approved March 25 by Pope Francis, who ordered its publication.
In its most eagerly anticipated section, the Vatican repeated its rejection of “gender theory,” or the idea that one’s gender can be changed. It said God created man and woman as biologically different, separate beings, and said people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”
“It follows that any sex-change intervention, as a rule, risks threatening the unique dignity the person has received from the moment of conception,” the document said.
But touching little kids was definitely part of the plan.
Touching kids is their only plan.
I’m no expert but I think systemically raping kids and assisting those perpetrators is a slightly worse violation of human dignity
So…god did not plan for the reality of the fluidity of genders? The all powerful all knowing god did not account for this in his plan?
The Torah has eleven genders in it. The Jewish God is supposed to be the same one as the Catholic God, so clearly they haven’t read up on their own history
What’s fascinating there is that not only does the Talmud identify eight genders, but two of them specify having changed their gender presentation through human intervention - precisely the type of intervention that the Pope is decrying here.
Hey…shut up.
-Pope.
I seem to recall a scripture about there being no male or female in the eyes of God. So not sure why old man pope is so offended.
If “God created man and woman as biologically different” then who created all the different intersex people? Even if you ignore or dismiss trans people, there are other people whose sexual characteristics at birth were not so easily sorted into male or female, and others whose physical traits either don’t align with the basic understanding of “sex” chromosomes or whose chromosomes are different than XX and XY.
Logically, if God exists, then either their statement is wrong and He does make people whose gender is indeterminate, or there is another god who is also making people. Or perhaps He is not that involved in the process, and “God’s Plan” is more of a loose framework.
Maybe he just sprinkled some life and let evolution do the rest. Like, I’d do it if I were in that position. Like spores you know, to see hiw far your mostruosity can go against other monstruosities.
It distinguished between gender-affirming surgeries, which it rejected, and “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or that develop later. Those abnormalities can be “resolved” with the help of health care professionals, it said.
Because of course it has the worse take. Why would the Catholic Church think consent was something that mattered?
God is dead, popey boi, keep your culty ideas to yourself
people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”
How fortunate it is that every single one of is sins and can all be forgiven, so we can just leave worrying about all that up to God, right? Right?
Or some shit. I’m an atheist, but I understand the myth better than most believers. Not that it matters because there is no logic or consistency anywhere in the doctrine, so why assume there is any in this edict?
There is sin and there are sins. One that can be forgiven, others that are not likely to…now switching gender isn’t on this list, and since there are animals thar do it on their own, I’d feel good about it. Also cursing the man isn’t a hige deal - but don’t do it - compared to cursing the Spirit. You want to live life accordingly, these comandements are probably the one christian way. By the way, the book of Exodus has many more rules which you can’t follow today, such as the burnt offerings. You’d break the law ny doing that in a normal place now. So do the other books of Moses. Have you carried a stick (read: working) on the seventh day? That’s also bad.
Modern society is by no means biblical and cannot afford to do so.
god made light so why aren’t light bulbs playing god?
It distinguished between gender-affirming surgeries, which it rejected, and “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or that develop later. Those abnormalities can be “resolved” with the help of health care professionals, it said.
Of course. God created males to be male and females to be female, and any attempt to change that is an abomination… but he didn’t create intersex people to be intersex, and that must be “corrected”. Just goes to show, this is just man putting his hate in God’s mouth again.
Honestly, the main reason I don’t believe in God is because I can’t believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.
Honestly, the main reason I don’t believe in God is because I can’t believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.
Yep. I’ll believe in God when he starts smiting Philistines again.
Yeah, but what makes more sense is Dystheism…
"the belief that a god is not wholly good and can even be considered evil, or one and the same with Satan. Definitions of the term somewhat vary, with one author defining it as “where God decides to become malevolent”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystheism
'Kinda puts the proclamations of the church into perspective.
A malevolent god is certainly a possibility, but in that case, the absolute best thing I could do is not even acknowledge its presence.
Epicurus Dilemma… I also, cannot get past that
And if anyone knows about violating human dignity, it’s the Pope.
…and his children diddling army of minions
Welp, turns out they’re still the same old Catholic Church after all. Whoda thunk it? 🙄
I can’t say I really understand the argument against surrogacy they’re making here. It seems like the same argument would mean that adoption shouldn’t be allowed either. Their other argument on the matter seems to be that abuse of a system means a system should be eliminated, which is an interesting argument for the Catholic Church to make.
I can’t say I really understand the argument against surrogacy they’re making here
I remember a Bible story about a man that died before having an heir so his brother was to impregnate the widow. But surrogacy is bad for some reason?
Oh, surrogacy is something a woman could benefit from. Right.
I think their skydaddy logic is it can’t be done without discarding eggs and as we all know each egg has a soul.
Meanwhile they eat eggs during lent.
Projecting as usual, are we?
something something yin and yang. Be a little based, gotta be a little unbased.
Balances out the universal gravitational whats its doohickeys or something.
Wasn’t Eve created from a man’s rib as an afterthought?
There are two creation narratives in the book of Genesis, and both are considered to be historical allegories.
I have to warn you that some believe these are no allegory.
Are we still talking about Catholics?
Nope. Not that I’m aware. To be fair no Catholic I have met in ages is nearly as extreme as these guys. But from some of my interactions via social media…I have seen them.
both are considered to be historical allegories.
How convenient that the “word of god” (as many churches describe the bible) is so open to human interpretation.
But the ability to interpret it is also flexible… Sometimes it’s to be taking verbatim, sometimes it has to be interpreted (but only by the right people, of course)
Can we really handwave away the whole Adam and Eve thing though?
If we do, then what did Jesus die for?
The original sin. Which in most myths is acquiring knowledge or attaining sentience.
If we do, then what did Jesus die for?
The new motto for Vegas – if you don’t enjoy yourself, he died for nothing.
The whole rib thing is likely just a PG version of the original…
Humans are one of the only mammals lacking a penis bone, men and women both have 24 ribs each…
There’s only one bone that human males lost, and that was the dick bone. So if Eve was made from a bone, she’s the root cause of male impotence because it’s a lot harder to keep a boner without a bone when you’re trying to bone.
Truly throwing a bone attack there are we
The definition of what a gender entails should be vast enough that people don’t feel the need to reaffirm it with drastic medical intervention with major health risks.
Let the men wear skirts and the women go topless.
Yeah, I’m not sure that you understand what trans people experience. The core issue, at least for a number of people, is not about wearing a particular article of clothing or not, it’s that your body is wrong. That doesn’t even get into matters of neurochemistry; T is awful for many trans women and E for trans men. Telling people it’s okay to wear a skirt or go topless isn’t going to help with that - for trans masc people, going without a binder would be significantly worse. Medical intervention is merited in cases where people want medical intervention. If someone wants medical intervention, and the research shows that said intervention is the best treatment for people who want such intervention, why would we not want to give said person said intervention?
Fuck Pope Francis. Love that he said “no its okay to do genital surgery on babies (literally less than 2 years old) if they don’t match what we decided was right for them”. Intersex people can just go fuck themselves in the Pope’s view I guess.
0 fucking consistency to any of their bullshit rhetoric. I think God’s core message is actually to shut the fuck up and let medical professionals address people’s health problems.
GRS literally saved my life. I would literally be dead if not for it. Transitioning allowed me to live a happy, fulfilled life. Anyone who tries to say that I shouldn’t have been able to transition, or should be forced to detransition, is unironically literally saying that I should be fucking dead. No part of me is a man. If God existed, then me as I am today was always his plan and design for me. Because otherwise he’s just a fucking asshole who literally created me just to suffer and die. If such a God existed I would have no qualms openly defying his creation, because no human being should be driven to suicide over something that real medical treatments exist for.
“ideological colonization”
The unbelievable fucking audacity for the catholic God damn church to accuse trans people of colonizing is so fucking wild. Such an unbelievable thing to say as someone who’s the head of an organization that goes around the world “converting people from their heathen religions to Christianity”. But somehow spreadings trans rights to be themselves and receive medical treatments that save their lives is “colonization”. I’ll tell that to the tens of thousands of dead native children buried outside catholic residential schools.
Glad you are now happy with yourself. Indeed, how should anyone but yourself tell you who you are?
Adults of sound mind should have the right to do to their body what they wish for whatever reason they wish. It’s nobody else’s business. But we can’t expect most ingrained religions or conservatives to accept this.
The problem is that millions of people think that the Pope has a direct line to their god and if the Pope says being trans is in violation of their god’s plan, they’re not going to be good to trans people and some religious trans people, especially the ones who aren’t out, will be driven further into the closet due to the self-hate.
The whole idea of a high pontiff is pretty terrifying. Look at the Crusades. How many people were killed because the Pope said to go kill them and people following him did what he ordered? There’s well over a billion Catholics. If the Pope said to rise up and kill and even 1% of them followed him, the bloodbath would be enormous.
Prior to that people also used to attempt it on their own dying miserably in their way to Jerusalem. What they did was just giving a political form to a preexisting movement.
Organized religion was a huge scam. Like our own bodies, it should be something personal or to show off at a dedicated club.
Perhaps, then, we shouldn’t accept conservatives or their religions.
