I swear, every time most of the time I see someone being particularly rude, ignorant, and inappropriate on a post (usually political in origin, or they swing it to being political) I click on their profile and see it has been created that same day.
They are only there to sow discord. Only to piss people off. Idk if we can just report them (for what?) but I’d like to try exposing them before responding and interacting…
I am guilty of gobbling up the bait. I’ve started looking at profiles of people that piss me off exceptionally and noticed they’re burner bot loser accounts.
I guess i just want to say I’ve noticed it!
Nope, I’m loving Lemmy.
Some people don’t get this:
If your communities are filled with polarized nonsense, your people suck, not your tech.
Right now, people’s suckyness worldwide is at an all time high.
It rocks! And if it gets shitty where you’re at, just go to a new instance and you can stay!
Is this the last migration?
Never feed the trolls, the only winning move is to downvote and move on
Nothing is as maddening as writing an elaborate troll post only to be completely ignored.
I do all my riling people up on Reddit though because that site is collapsing anyway and a shell of former self. Hard to bring yourself to respect it and not throw some spicy fake made up posts into the wild and see what happens
.ml is very obviously like 20% right wing trolls pretending to be leftists. Literally everyone on the fediverse can see it except for the admins who protect these trolls because of Poe’s law blindness.
No, Sounds like someone who can’t give a counter arguments, and instead reverts to crying about trolls, bots, and calling for the opposite side to be censored.
There’s a group of conflict bots that show up every day, around the same time.
Then throw in a mix of astroturfers from certain countries trying to steer conversations away from one direction and into another direction.
Finally mix in comments from one of the extreme edges of the political spectrum, that repost the same kind of posts that support their extreme views almost daily.
Lemmy admins have some work to do.
Why yes, we even had a balrog…
Yes. Especially in subs like “Canada” or any post involving Canada in any way
It does not matter what the topic of the thread or conversation is. It can be about how Canada loves puppies. And there will be random 1 or 2 liners from new accounts making political comments heavily pushing specific agendas. Even completely unrelated
Lots of random anti government misinformation and one liners pushing a specific party misinformation and narrative. Our how we’re some 3rd world collapsing country
It is not natural. Same thing occurs also on Reddit.
I have not seen this. Can you link to some examples?
No, not really.
Assholes are everywhere, but yeah, it’s been happening slowly but surely ever since lemmy has gained more users (which makes sense).
I’d really like to know the ratio of assholes to regular people out of every 100 people 😂
An ever increasing ratio because assholes drive out non assholes.
Dead Sea effect in action.
Good theory; makes sense
Unless you have mods that aren’t afraid to drive out the assholes
Use the report button when you see those, it’s the quickest way for them to be noticed by mods and admins.
People don’t report shit, then complain stuff goes unmoderated.
Like, you don’t have to report every single comment a troll makes, but at least report one so a mod looks at it.
Edit:
Here’s a good example. An account I have blocked replied to me. If they go into a sub I moderate and start acting like a jackass, I’ll never know because I have them blocked.
The only way I’d see it, is if someone reported it.
People do report stuff, get yelled at by the mods, and then get banned by the admins for abuse of the reporting system, or mod abuse for getting clarification.
So if you do what you are supposed to, you get banned.
Would be better if moderation was actually taken seriously and the admins don’t excuse terrible mod behavior.
Those sound like extremely edge cases and are not a good reason to not justify not reporting anything.
Moderators are volunteers and most of them simply want to make their communities better, so they do take these reports seriously. Plus at this stage Lemmy lacks robust tools to help them accomplish this. The very least general users can do is flag problem comments and accounts to help them out.
There’s posts about mods complaining about users using the report button as a “super downvote” you go to those posts, there are people legit trolling in them and the content is still there.
The excuse is, Lemmy needs content, so they are very loose and liberal in applying moderation like that against users that add content.
I’ve had an admin defend a mod when I reported them with “they aren’t as bad as some of the others”. So Lemmy admins know they have moderation issues, if they fix it, they lose their content and their free labor. So they just turn a blind eye and let the mods do what they want, which is quite frankly nothing. And when asked they report you to the admins. They really only deal with illegal stuff unfortunately, since they have to or they can get in shit personally.
Trolls unfortunately add content, which is desperately needed. Some communities deal with it, larger let it go for discussion and metrics sake. Lemmy isn’t perfect, and we should be able to discuss its darker side.
Are you talking about Lemmy.ml specifically or Lemmy in general?
Ugghh that’s a good point, this was .world for admins, but the moderation issues seem to be non instance specific.
Also makes me wonder if some of the trolling is dealt with and its federation issues then…
Still, the amount of trolling comments, and users being banned for pretty frivolous things isn’t a good look.
Trolling is simply noise and garbage to dispose of when it becomes an attack on the person. It brings nothing of value and it diminishes the value of everything else it pollutes.
Trolling is simply noise and garbage to dispose of when it becomes an attack on the person.
Trolling doesn’t ONLY require personal attacks…. That’s the issue, mods only step in when things progress too far and have reached that point….
There’s also a fine line between legitimate trolling and having unpopular or dissenting opinion. I’ve seen plenty of threads where 2 or more people are arguing about a given topic, and while the unpopular opinion isn’t being inflammatory or breaking any rules, they still get their comments removed after being down voted into the ground. It’s happened to me as well.
My only contention with this is finding a way to foster conversation without censoring opinions just because they’re not widely shared. As long as the argument is in good faith, mods shouldn’t be removing content they don’t agree with, only those that are inflammatory, overly insulting, blatant trolling/shilling, or breaking community rules.
I think it depends. You can be a really polite Baptist preacher being very earnest in !196 about how you think people should behave, and that’s just not what they want. Even in a discussion thread, writing a nonspecific defense of FGM, for example, is going to be offensive enough to probably disrupt the conversation, and I can see removing it.
I’m not suggesting that’s what’s happening; just saying that I like your idea, with some tweaks
People do report stuff, get yelled at by the mods, and then get banned by the admins for abuse of the reporting system, or mod abuse for getting clarification.
What mods/admins are doing this? I would not stick around a community or instance run like this. Luckily with the Fediverse, you can choose what instances or communities you want to go to, you’re not stuck in the same way you were on Reddit. Use that power - don’t let abusive mods/admins be your host.
Moderating comments, even trolling is suppressing free speech. So it goes against the entire purpose of fediverse, it’s an issue with its own system. So people say to report them, but they won’t act on reports since just having an opinion that goes against the narrative can fall under free speech. And moderation it will create other issues.
Go elsewhere, smaller communities, less content, more moderation so less content, it’s all potential issues all the way down that are created by itself.
So it goes against the entire purpose of fediverse
The purpose of the Fediverse is not free speech or censorship-resistance. It’s more like to have a choice in your social media landscape and to make it more democratic, via users choosing what server to use. If you want a server that doesn’t supress free speech, join one like that or make it yourself. If you want a more strictly moderated server, go to one like that or make it yourself.
And yea your choice may not be as popular so maybe there’ll be less content, but you’ll be in the area you chose and maybe others will follow you over time.
Here’s a good example. An account I have blocked replied to me. If they go into a sub I moderate and start acting like a jackass, I’ll never know because I have them blocked.
The only way I’d see it, is if someone reported it.
This is why, when I was a reddit moderator (r/Firefox), I never blocked users even if they were absolute trash to me. I always thought of that as a severe limitation of the platform, there should be a setting to show blocked user’s content (labelled as such) in communities you moderate.
Lol i see their downvote. that one really hates you
Unpopular opinion but I rather downvote. I want to see people’s bad opinions instead of pretending they don’t exist.
Yes, Im also glad im not the only one who noticed this. But it also seems to be they disapper after a few days too, maybe instance mods banned them or they just got bored.
It’s those god damn cracka ass crackas taking up the black mans freedom of speech
Memba reddit comments circa 2016 election? I memba.
It’s already getting like that over there. That’s why I’m here now. The last straw was a “Reddit Recommendation” that I join r/InternationalNews. I took a look around, and it was a hotbed of anti-Israel and anti-America content. There was the video of the university detonation from January 20th, posted that day and pinned to the top. When I commented on the date and provided the source, I was downvoted to oblivion, and eventually banned.
The sub was #7 under recommended news subreddits.
You’re not going to have much of a better time here if you like Israel and aren’t critical of the US. Lemmy is full of socialists lol
I’m educated enough on the history of the history of the conflict to know nothing about it is simple to resolve. The only strong opinions I have are Netanyahu =/= Israel and Hamas =/= Palestine, and hatred for an entire group of people is racist and ignorant.
The government’s job is to represent me. As a US citizen, it’s my job to criticize them when they don’t. I owe them no loyalty. They owe me representation.
You should look a little deeper into the history of modern Israel and Zionism. It’s always been a colonial project that necessitates genocide of the local population. I’m not going to get further into it here as it’s not really the place for this and people have already done the work. If you haven’t seen shaun’s video id recommend at least giving it a watch. I’ll leave the iron wall as well. It’s a short essay from one of the founders of Zionism. His views were quite explicit and highly influential at the time and his legacy is obvious in modern Israel. And lastly The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine. It’s a good book that plainly lays out the history of the Zionist colonial project from 1917-2017. I’m only halfway through it but it’s worth your time. Or just watch the video, it’s cites both the essay and book (among other things) and ties it all together very well.
The government’s job is to represent me.
If you work for a living like the vast majority of us do, it isn’t the government’s job to represent you, and it never was. The US was born of a bourgeois revolution, and the Founding Fathers formed a bourgeois democracy, which was never meant to represent the working class, and never has. Princeton University Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
Being anti-Israel is based.
The government, not the citizens, as per usual.
Bibi is basically a centrist in Israel so I dont think that holds up. eg the humanitarian aid at some border crossings are being picketed by Israeli chuds. Sure there are some good Israelis but they aren’t the norm.
Nah yes their citizens too. Have you seen the video of them literally jumping clapping and cheering the destruction of people’s homes?
Yep, Israel is not Jews, and Jews are not Israel.
Beyond that even: not all Israelis share the way of thinking of the Government of Israel.
Plenty of decent people even in a country which has for decades been heavy in nationalism, delusions of inherent racial superiority and generally Zionist indoctrination.
They’re probably the minority rather than the majority though.
I also do not view Israel as Israelis, or Israelis as Israel. Just like most of the US hates BOTH Biden and Trump, yet those are our options.
The working class of every country has their respective 1%ers that need to be dealt with. Non violently, through electoral reform preferably.
Fuck first past the post voting. Intentionally limiting the number of viable options to pick from is NOT democracy.
Non violently, through electoral reform preferably.
Lol. How are you going to do that? Vote for it?
Proving op point
I’m sorry, are you FOR regimes that openly commit genocides? Grow the fuck up or pull the mask off.
anti-Israel and anti-America content is cool actually
So are you racist or a nationalist? There’s a difference between criticizing Netanyahu and Biden, and entire nations of people.
Lol, as if America and Israel were ok before Netanyahu and Biden
criticising Israel’s genocide of palestinians and consistent settlement of palestinian land going back 75 years and the American government unconditionally supporting them to do this for the last few decades regardless of political party isnt racist actually. I’m assuming you don’t think that just because I criticise the actions of the Russian government that makes me a white supremacist who hates all russian people.
edit: im getting downvoted for saying genocide is bad and countries that commit genocide are bad lmao
Scratch a liberal and a fascist downvotes.
Can we start treating the bullshit line of “I don’t hate the people I hate the government” for what it is? This is the 40th time in a row it’s been used by someone who absolutely does conflate a government and its people.
it was a hotbed of anti-Israel and anti-America content.
Welcome to a hotbed of anti-imperial, anti-colonial, and anti-settler content 😂 If you’re looking for pro-imperial core content, you’ve come to the wrong place.
Recommended by who though? Spez, that’s who. Race-baiting works to increase “engagement” e.g. clicks and comments, thus it continues.
fuck u/spez
I think r/InternationalNews was mainly created as a place to discuss issues free from the rampant Zionism of r/WorldNews.
Happy to have people on Lemmy but I have to say, Lemmy as a whole seems way more anti-Israel than reddit right now. Although to be fair outside of r/WorldNews and a few other places, the general mood does seem to be shifting away from Israel pretty hard.
For me this is nice to see, because fuck Israel right to hell, but you’ll certainly see the same type of content here. I like that if people don’t like it they can make their own community or even an instance, and also that people are generally more free to disagree here (partially due to lax moderation I guess). You should have never been banned for that comment by the sound of it, absolutely stupid.
I deleted my 14 year old account after enough BS on Reddit
Going there with no account but not really on private mode so i got recommendations for regional subs
canada_sub keeps getting pushed. That sub is an alt right neo nazi echo chamber in which the founder and head mod admitted to astroturfing himself with multiple accounts to push hateful topics.
Reddit is intentionally pushing misinformation and hatred for metrics to prop up the ipo
I mean, Israel hate is a relatively common position these days.
Of course there are less than intelligent people that think “anti Israel…okay, so fuck the Jews!” Like, no. Fuck those people. And in a social media environment, nuance isn’t allowed. If it sounds like maybe you might be possibly on “the other side” of a popular issue, fuck you there is no room for understanding. It’s a huge problem. I’ve noticed more conversations on lemmy that don’t fall into that trap as easily. But, that does seem to be changing somewhat.
It’s not entirely social media, that’s just people. But I do firmly believe social media has made this problem exponentially worse.
I mean, it seems like you and I would disagree on the Israel/palestine issue. But we’re here discussing the discussion surrounding it. On Reddit, that literally never happened to me.
It doesn’t matter if it’s popular. It’s still racist or nationalist. Just like people who say “fuck Palestinians,” you’re labeling an entire nation or group for the actions of their leader(s).
As an American, am I Biden or Trump? No. I’m an American. I should not be held accountable for the actions of the leader of my nation, even more so if I voted against them.
Netanyahu won his last election with 64% of the popular vote, and is currently polling at 15% popularity with the Israelis.
Hamas won the last election with 44.45% of the popular vote (similar to Trump, they won without popular majority).
I’m just saying words matter. “Fuck Israel” means all Israelis. I think you may just mean “fuck Benjamin Netanyahu.” In that, you’d likely have support of most of the world.
Eh. It’s actually different. The popular position is that Israel the state is committing genocide. That’s not he same thing as saying “fuck Palestinians.” Because people aren’t saying “fuck Israelis.” They’re saying fuck Israel for what they’re doing.
You seem to be implying the nimrods who, as I explained earlier, lack the concept of nuance and take anti-israel positions to the illogical extreme of just becoming antisemitic. It’s the same type of people who were assaulting anyone of Asian descent during Covid. You can’t lump everyone who was being careful not to get sick in with the people who were pushing old Asian women down the subway stairs.
“Fuck Israel” means all Israelis
What. No. It absolutely does not. That’s you being overly sensitive and basically misunderstanding a message. If I say “fuck the US” in the context of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, that doesn’t mean “fuck everyone from the US.” Thats such an illogical conclusion to come to.
Also, I don’t know where you got your numbers, I can only find these figures about Netanyahu’s approval ratings in Israel:
According to a survey of more than 700 people carried out by the Israel Democracy Institute this month, 57 percent of the public rates Netanyahu’s performance as “poor or very poor,” while only 28% believe it is “good or excellent.” 14% assess his performance as “so-so.”
And this:
On both questions, Israelis agree with Netanyahu: A poll last month by the Israel Democracy Institute found that nearly two-thirds of Israelis say Israel should “expand its military operations into Rafah.” A separate February poll by IDI found, by the same token, that 55% of Israelis oppose Palestinian statehood, compared to 37% who support it.
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/53305
This one survey is the source for those numbers, and it doesn’t paint as clear of a picture of not supporting Netanyahu. Now, this doesn’t mean anything about antisemitism. That’s always wrong. But my point is that, first off, you seem to be skewing numbers to make a point, unless you have data I can’t find. Secondly, you also seem to be falling in with that group of people who can’t grasp or don’t operate with any nuance. I can say fuck people who support the genocide, whether they are in Israel or elsewhere in the world. Because…it’s fucking genocide. That doesn’t mean I get to generalize about them and hate hem for unrelated qualities, like their religion or skin color. But I can hate their beliefs about what’s happening. It’s all about nuance. It’s very fucking important.
Israel is a nation. There is no nation of Palestine. That’s why I wrote “nationalist or racist.” Either way, the sentiment is the same ignorant hatred that is propagating the war.
You’re conflating a Palestinian statehood poll with Netanyahu’s favorability. Israelis are protesting in the tens of thousands in the streets against Netanyahu.
So fuck Netanyahu and Hamas. Just keep your prejudices away from the Palestinian and Israeli people.
But that doesn’t change anything. If anything, wouldn’t that make it different than saying “fuck Palestine?” Because you’re basically saying fuck the idea of a Palestinian state. But if you say “fuck Israel,” you’re very clearly designating the state itself as the problem.
Also, I wasn’t conflating those figures. I was citing a more recent poll that gave more context, as well as updated job favorability numbers. The poll you’re citing isn’t measuring favorability, but percentage of Israelis that want Netanyahu to “stay in office after the war in Gaza ends.”
keep your prejudices away from the Palestinian and Israeli people.
But that’s my entire point. There isn’t prejudice in saying “fuck Israel.” You’re projecting that onto the message. Your entire thing started with complaining that people are “anti-Israel” in a community. So I’m really just not even sure your point anymore.
Oh me too! I ‘memba!
No one is paying troll farms to go comment on lemmy though
im not on lemmy but I see regular buy drugs here, how to change your flight booking (no idea how that scam whatever it is works), or for some reason random keyboard characters like a person randomly banged on the homerow keys. may not be paid but apparently someone thinks the fediverse is worth crapping up.
Fair enough, I have also seen that crap
Oh i doubt that. According to a few people I’ve spoken with i’m a paid troll.
That aside it’s good to be suspicious that any reasonably populated online space has is share of astrotrurfers. Hell, remember snowdens revelations shows federal agents had fuggen World of Warcraft and xbox live accounts
i’m a paid troll.
Wait, you guys are getting paid?
We do it for love
It’s more like the far right is bored and doesn’t have anything better to do than troll on the internet.
No one is paying troll farms to go comment on lemmy though
Could you tell that to the c/politics commenters who seem to think russian shills lurk behind every rock?
I don’t really think political spending is going towards Lemmy trolls, much less like…national propaganda spending. Shitty advertising bots maybe.
There are 2 million monthly active Lemmy users. That’s a vast untapped market of grassroots users many who likely aren’t on many other platforms, due to the nature of Lemmy.
The first state actor to get in on the ground floor and shape the collective opinion of lemmings as a whole will influence the future outlook of every user of the fediverse. Especially young people. Majority opinion, majority rule.
I believe we can see this taking place on instances like .world and hexbear, but I’m sure it’s happening in a semi-automated fashion across most instances.
Atlantic Council: Collective Security In a Federated World
That’s total monthly users, not active. MAU is about 30-40k
Thanks for the clarification. Even easier to sink a claw in then. Trajectories don’t show growth slowing down, they show it accelerating.
I don’t really think political spending is going towards Lemmy trolls
Nor do I. I don’t think lemmy is large enough for such spending to have enough return on investment to make it worthwhile. But it’s convenient to dismiss deviations from centrist orthodoxy as the output of shills, and so it happens.
So the record is correct here?
I don’t know if 50k people, at least a third of whom are outside of the US is a big enough target or if I’m being naïve in thinking that
I was thinking the same thing. It’s definitely not a coordinated propaganda thing. Some people are just assholes. And they like to troll.
But who knows, maybe someone, somewhere, knows about lemmy—some government/interest group—and think it’s worth it because it can be accessed through mastodon, blue sky, etc. The fediverse seems to be a relatively popular subject these days. So, I dunno. Maybe.
But I think some people just suck and think trolling is a good pastime.
My old comments would have had me banned a hundred times over today.
Jesus what kind of shit did you used to say lol
I was fresh off the bus from 4chan and is was the same culture in the early days.
Washington Post gift article - Russian trolls target U.S. support for Ukraine, Kremlin documents show
Nazis have been attacking Lemmy for quite awhile now. They’ve only really been finding success on a few problem instances, though.
