While rebutting another post here on Lemmy, I ran into this. This says exactly what I want to say.
I am not a friend of Biden’s Administration. I think they drug their feet over a variety of things ranging from holding Trump and his goons accountable for January 6th through rulemaking on issues like OTC Birth Control and abortion rights, and yes, I think he’s too quick to please big business. But then I remember what the alternative is, and … well, disappointed in Biden or not, I’m voting for him. Because my wife is a Black bisexual goth woman, four strikes under Team Pepe’s tent. And I have my own strikes for marrying her as a White dude, and respecting her right to not have kids since she doesn’t want them is another strike against me. And I care about my Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, and Minority friends, and will never willingly subject them to Team Pepe.
Biden may be better than Trump, but the system is fucked to make those the only two options. If he wins, after the election I’m going to actively criticize everything about the Democratic party I can so that we have a chance to get a progressive candidate in 2028. For now I’m giving him a pass so we don’t take another step towards fascism. Republicans are going to use absolutely everything they can to squeeze their orange dictator into office.
I mean I’m definitely more on the progressive side and voted for Biden last time and I’ve still never stopped being critical of him or any other Democrat I voted for. That’s how democracy thrives after all.
I don’t want and will not settle for becoming like a Republican where I never question or criticize the person I voted for, even if it’s Bernie.
This is a very fair approach. Stop Fascism now, then right after the vote is won, start pushing the party Left.
I will almost certainly be voting for Biden, but why on Earth do you think we can push the DNC to the left? “Stop fascism now, then right after the vote is won, start pushing the party Left” has been the calling action for progressives and leftists for decades and the US has gotten more right-wing with time.
Why is this time any different? Is it finally time to realize that you cannot vote the DNC to the left at the scale required to make actual change?
With FPTP voting you literally don’t have a choice. Push for voting reforms first
That’s not the question I asked, haha. Voting reform would be nice, of course, but that doesn’t mean it will happen. That’s pure idealism. Voting reform has been pushed for for decades, how do you plan on actually getting voting reform through? Waiting for candidates to magically appear in the DNC and not just third party, and vote for them?
If you don’t get voting reform through, you don’t have much leverage at all for much else.
I asked how you’re getting it through, are you just saying the answer is to wait for the DNC to get around to it? Because I really hope that isn’t what you’re saying.
How are you getting anything else through? If you can push them to make any changes at all, this one should have top priority
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This is what happened in 2020.
The party refused to move left. I won’t be suckered into giving up my vote for a procorporate piece of shit again. If Biden wants my vote he’ll fucking work for it.
Then please go vote in primaries, midterms, and local elections. That’s how you get the party to move. People complain about their elected officials but only vote once every four years.
Yes we complain because there was no excuse to vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries. There were much better options.
The party has no interest in moving. Thus I have no interest in voting for their trash candidates.
Have you considered that leftists have simply done a poor job of working for moderates’ votes?
This is a two way street. Progressives don’t get moderate votes for granted either, and I say that as a progressive. Perhaps part of the reason why progressives have struggled is because the loud minority would rather talk shit on everyone else instead trying to convince them.
Have you considered that leftists have simply done a poor job of working for moderates’ votes?
Have you considered moderates and liberals have no interest in moving left and will continue to expect our votes while making no material compromises?
This is a two way street. Progressives don’t get moderate votes for granted either, and I say that as a progressive. Perhaps part of the reason why progressives have struggled is because the loud minority would rather talk shit on everyone else instead trying to convince them.
I’m fine with this if that’s what you want. Get Biden re-elected without us. If you fail take full responsibility.
Do you actually care about progressive causes, or do you just want to be right and win one over against the moderates and centrists, yell at them and feel good about yourself?
Lol are you worried we feel good about ourselves? Suicide rates are at record highs. Don’t you worry about us feeling good. We don’t.
That doesn’t change facts though. Moderates, centerists, liberals or whatever else they want to call themselves are the majority of the party. Millions of them voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries over the numerous better options. We are all in this position because of their decisions. They are responsible for what’s happening.
I agree that we need more than 3 choices, but I disagree with you on being more progressive. Biden has been the most progressive democrat that I could remember.
You can’t remember Bernie?
Ya, I voted for him. I mean, some of the things Biden is doing is straight out of Bernie’s playbook. Student loan forgiveness. Prescription drug caps.
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after the election I’m going to actively criticize everything about the Democratic party I can so that we have a chance to get a progressive candidate in 2028.
That’s how it’s supposed to happen.
You won’t get the option if the other side wins.
Well we’ve had that option for over three years and for over three years Biden has told us to go fuck ourselves. If that’s how the system is supposed to work then the system isn’t worth defending for me. I’ll leave that to the people who actually benefit from it.
I’ll leave that to the people who actually benefit from it.
Was it better or worse when states couldn’t just outright ban abortion? Would you say women “benefited” from the previous policy?
Man, it sure would have been nice if the Democrats had actually eliminated the filibuster and legislated abortion rights after Roe v Wade, instead of just campaigning on the threat of a GOP majority overturning it somehow. Almost like they didn’t actually give a damn about trying to solve that one, and just wanted to look like they cared. They could have had this done and sorted in the first years of Clinton’s or Obama’s presidencies and chose not to. Let’s see how many decades they campaign on swearing that, this time, they’re totally going to do something to settle the matter, for real.
I wish it were that simple.
Do you actually believe Dems even had the majority they needed to make it a law even when in power? Dems are not a monolith.
During the first 2 years of Obama’s presidency they focused on the economic crisis and healthcare reform. The latter, if you recall, even got fucked up because of one guy costing us the public option.
But none of this changes the fact that on this subject, we had something better before now.
Republicans can get their people in Congress to fall in line, but somehow Democrats always come out with “Gee, that rascally Lieberman/Manchin/Sinema, guess there’s nothing we can do” and don’t put any effective pressure on these people or get rid of them with someone who don’t turn out to just be colorblind Republicans that will sabotage the platform.
Democrats have chances to take action to address these problems and keep tripping over themselves on the same stupid stuff, then try to shout down increasingly disaffected voters with “The other ones are worse than us, vote for us and we won’t drop the ball again!”
I remember that sentiment being shared when Manchin was doing some stupid ass thing or another. EVERY time anyone asked those people what EXACTLY they suggested anyone do to him to force him to change, they had no real answer.
I just assume all Republicans have some dirty shit in their past that their party can lean on them with.
Now’s your chance. What could Biden or anyone else do to force Manchin to do what he wants?
I’d invite you to zoom out a little bit.
You know who wasn’t affected by the abortion ban? Anybody with enough money to move or travel. While they’ve got you distracted with what they’re giving you permission to do you’re letting them take away your ability to simply walk away.
Far more people have been harmed by the suppression of wages than any specific policy you can think of and it crosses over race, gender and age. Procorporatism is at the root of what’s killing us and Democrats are right there with Republicans making it happen.
You know who wasn’t affected by the abortion ban? Anybody with enough money to move or travel.
“I’ve got the means and time to travel hundreds of miles if I need an abortion and I’m not that bothered that many don’t.”
Got it…
Whether or not the abortion ban affects me directly doesn’t change the fact: Everybody is affected by wage suppression.
No thanks.
I will never vote for Joe Biden again. Party for Socialism and Liberation at the national level this year.
Just vote for other people?
This is more of a political meme, Biden and friends have no other talking point than"not trump" well so is any random person on the street. Dumbass reason to vote for Biden. Need another Bernie Sanders, progressive and not gonna fund random wars lobbied by MIC
pretty much anyone is better than trump
You know, I would have agreed wholeheartedly six months ago. But Biden managed to find a way to make me do a double take.
“No no, enabling fascism will definitely cause a swing to the left this time. After Trump, our turn!”
A rabid racoon would make a better president than Cheeto Benito…
That’s true, but tbh I would do that for Biden too…
I don’t argue with people who deny Genocide because their worldview requires them to ignore reality.
For anyone wondering: I was curious as to what their exact motivation was, and I found them claiming that the Holdomor didn’t happen. .ml user don’t be a pro-genocide tankie challenge:
If you’re talking about me, after the Soviet Union fell and historians got access to the archives it became irrefutable that there was no intentional genocidal famine. That’s what holodomor is, intentional genocide through famine.
I never would say there was no famine or massive amount of death, but holodomor means a very specific thing that has been disproven.
Source: trust me, bro.
Since you asked: Davies & Wheatcroft: Years of Hunger.
If you want to learn more about Robert Conquest, the anticommunist granted access to the Soviet archives who changed his tune about the famine afterwards, he has several books published but be warned: he thinks communism and Naziism are “twins”.
His correspondence with Stephen Wheatcroft where he talks about the experience is published in years of hunger I think. My copy’s not at hand r/n.
Easy choice
Hahaha no he’s not. Hahahahaha. Leftist stupidity strikes again
Isn’t the Democratic Party centre-right wing?
Democrats need to pull themselves together and figure out what people actually need and want. The bogeyman isn’t a sustainable thing.
Problem is they know exactly what the people want (socialized healthcare, corporations to be held accountable for their actions, to break up monopolies, affordable housing, seriously address climate change, safe food and water, not supporting genocide) only problem is vested interests don’t want that. So the Dems need to figure out how to balance those two things by appeasing the powerful interest and paying lip service to the voters.
So the Dems need to figure out how to balance those two things by appeasing the powerful interest and paying lip service to the voters.
I mean, that’s what they’re doing now, right? “Oh, we all want to do these things, but the big mean republicans won’t let us do them, we’re just smol beans who can’t help it, we couldn’t possibly kill the filibuster or reform the court, it’s our birthday, why do you hate us?”
Exactly.
Imagine if Coca-Cola tried to shame or guilt people into buying Coca-Cola.
How would that work out.
The guilt tripping and shaming is going to backfire.
To win, you have to inspire people to actually want to vote for you.
Otherwise, they just might not even bother showing up.
Imagine if Coca-Cola tried to shame or guilt people into buying Coca-Cola.
Now imagine there are only 2 possible choices and Pepsi is going to further reduce the control the women in your life have over their own bodies, and other fucked up shit.
Oh wow you’re doing the thing from the comment you’re replying to 🫡
It was a shit analogy given the vast options for soda and the whole 2 options we have for president. Grow up.
No u
They know what we need and want they just never have had a supermajority for more than 10 minutes. Our stupid ass elections are always on the razors edge lately so we have around 3 asshole
Republicans pretending to be DemocratsDemocrats in the Senate that just squash anything that would benefit us at the expense of more wealth hoarding at the top.Listen to Democrats running and listen to Republicans running, only one of those groups rely on “hate, hate, hate, be afraid, hate, those people are different and I’ll stop them!”
That’s been the case for over a decade now and there’s still a filibuster. And the court is still only 9 justices. I submit they don’t want to solve it. They don’t want to catch the car.
I believe it’s those same 3 “Democrats” that are the ones that prevented the change to the filibuster. “Totally not corrupted by his own business interests” Mancin is one I remember for sure was against it. There definitely is a contingent of Democrats that “don’t want to catch the car” but I think they’re the minority. With our stupidly thin margins that minority controls the agenda unfortunately :(
You don’t need to get past the filibuster to get rid of the filibuster.
No, but you do need enough votes that the people who like the status quo can be overriden. The last time that was the case was the brief period between 2008 and 2010 where there were 59 (and a 3-week window where they had 60) democrats in the Senate, and during that period McConnell’s “block everything and don’t give Obama any wins at all” strategy wasn’t fully apparent yet, so there was no appetite to get rid of the filibuster because it hadn’t yet been so widely abused. Then the 2010 midterm came in and democrats went from holding 59 seats to 51, and we’ve been stuck with Manchin (and later Sinema) having effective veto power on the Democrat agenda ever since.
… that’s the Republican playbook. Try again.
Which is why I’m a bit angry about it.
Most of your grievances are things the POTUS has no unilateral authority over.
Not sure about his direct authority on drug classifications to enable OTC birth control. Also seems weird to focus on since this has been a hotly debated item for decades.
He has zero authority over abortion rights. The SCOTUS made this massive mess, and were enabled by Trumps appointees. This is trumps mess, and checks and balances explicitly prevents the POTUS from dictating this.
Trump prosecution is out of his hands. It’s Garland’s job. I’m not sure how much influence the POTUS can have here, but more to the point, the POTUS should be staying out of it, particularly since the plaintiff is his political rival. I don’t know what his authority is here in the technical sense, but it is appropriate to not have direct influence over the investigation.
Seems like there’s a lot of resentment towards Biden because of a general lack of understanding of the power structure of our government.
But what is he doing, then? He could be taking a firm line against the genocide in Palestine, but instead he is giving public and material support to the perpetrators. He could be rallying the electorate by using the “bully pulpit” to pressure congress with popular policies the public wants. He doesn’t do that kind of thing, because they are antithetical to his neoliberal politics. He (and those around him) would rather lose to the right than concede anything to the working class.
Most people understand that the potus is largely a figurehead, but Biden isn’t even doing that right. Don’t keep blaming the electorate when the problem is with the shitty fucking leadership.
It’s telling that you left Gaza out of your comment. That is the #1 reason this president is facing a loss. If he would stop sending arms today, he would win in a landslide. You disingenuous shill. Edit: I was wrong to insult OP.
Someone who has helped commit genocide vs someone who hasn’t yet. Sure. When you consistently vote the party no matter what they do then you give your voting power away. Start punishing them with your vote and see how quickly the switch up and come to the table.
I’ll be one of the first to admit, I don’t like Biden. But, if you need to be convinced that he’s better than Trump, you’re an absolute buffoon!! Trump is worse than the shit you stepped on, on your walk. Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to the American presidency. He’s the closest we’ll get to Adolf Hitler and he relishes in that. He thinks it makes him “a bad boy” or someone moving against the curve…and he’s right, he’s moving against the curve. He’s moving against it in 4 straight lines that will bend consecutively in 90° angles to the right. My point is, TRUMP IS NAZI SCUM WHO’S WORSE THAN THE SHIT ON YOUR HEEL
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It’s not inspiring in the slightest bit. We are in a terrible position and we have been for my entire life and beyond. A 2 party system does not work because ultimately that 2 party system becomes the rich vs the poor.
We need 3rd, 4th and 5th party candidates not just holding office, but in the Supreme Court. We need term limits at all levels of government. We need free healthcare for all residents. We need to take corporate interests and money out of Washington. We need to erase these cockamamie gerrymandered voting maps and implement fair elections and ensure easy access to voting for all eligible citizens. We need to invest in more in education and less in bombs and super-soldier police. We need to hold elected officials accountable for their actions and ensure transparency in government processes. We need to elect leaders who prioritize unity, civil discourse, and the well-being of all citizens. We need to put all the issues up for votes and stop letting politicians decide our present and our future.
There’s a lot we need to do and it’s going to take a long while time and sustained effort to create a lasting change.
But, it’s 2024 and this is our current system and this year we have one of two choices: Joe Biden or Donnie Dickhead. So this year we have to accept that it’s going to have to be one of the two of them as president. But when you’re voting don’t just vote party lines, look into local politics and politicians. Vote in primaries. Vote period. Or, run if you feel so inclined.
Yeah, there are some leftists that try drawing the line at silly points like “oh I won’t vote for someone who supports genocide” but really what’s the big deal? Genocides happen, I think they’re kind of fun sounding. I’m thinking about moving to Israel and helping the IDF finish their extermination of the barbaric “human animals”/natives that have infested their holy land. Biden has self-identified as a Zionist many times before, and I think that’s a beautiful thing. I bet he’d take up arms with me against the parasites if he was still fully sentient. He’s definitely trying his best as president to help them finish cleaning up the trash.
Oh, and yeah only Trump is a fascist. None of the above sounds anything like fascism, don’t worry.
/s
Show me proof of Genocide or stop claiming it’s happening. Just because you can use the word doesn’t mean it’s true. No one has deemed what the IDF has done to be genocide at this point.
Only three genocides in history have been officially recognized under the definition of the term in the 1948 Genocide Convention and led to trials in international criminal tribunals: one against Cham Muslim and ethnic Vietnamese perpetrated by Khmer Rouge leaders in Cambodia in the 1970s, the 1994 Rwandan genocide, and the 1995 Srebrenica Massacre in Bosnia. (The Holocaust occurred before the adoption of the 1948 Convention.) The mass killings of the Yazidis by ISIS in Iraq and of the Rohingya in Myanmar have been recognized as genocide by the United Nations as a whole. Though the US called the killing of Black Africans in the Sudanese region of Darfur between 2003 and 2005 “genocide,” a UN investigation ruled it was not genocide.
Yeah, want to know why the international community doesn’t call the Palestinian genocide a genocide? Because Israel and the U.S reject it lmfao. You’re such a fucking bootlicker.
The only half-coherent argument that some academics make against the genocide classification is that it’s instead an ethnic cleansing. Nobody (except the U.S and Israel) thinks Israel isn’t trying to exterminate the natives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation
So… instead of providing some kind of actual proof or evidence of your argument, you insult me and post a relatively useless link to a wikipedia article that wouldn’t pass the sniff test in high school.
First time using Wikipedia? There are actually a dozen resources at the bottom. Use those.
Anyway, you didn’t address anything I actually said. You sit back as Israel invades, bombs, and slaughters thousands upon thousands of children for the purposes of wiping out a native people, and you argue about the semantics of genocide. It’s so fucking pathetic, people did the same thing during the Holocaust to try to argue against U.S intervention and it fucking worked, the only reason we intervened was Japan bombing pearl harbor.
Genocide apologists like yourself should go spend a day actually experiencing the fucking genocide, then maybe you’ll have an ounce of compassion. It just sucks having you out here, potentially changing public sentiment away from helping those being genocided. The difference between an indifferent bystander and a genocide enabler is not as large as you’d probably imagine, being the former yourself.
You jump to conclusions with weak arguments and result to insults instead of listening to what I’m saying.
The information I provided isn’t false and neither is yours. There’s some differing opinions on the definitions of genocide. In this case, I would agree that it hasn’t really met that threshold. By the text book definition. That’s all.
It’s not that it’s not terrible. All war is terrible. But I also am of the opinion that violence is part of nature. I accept it as part of life.
There’s a misconception among western intellectuals that emotion and intellect are juxtaposed, that your indifference towards the genocide that is taking place is somehow a virtue. It’s not. It’s your inability to actually comprehend what is going on. If you lived the life of a Palestinian you wouldn’t just be mad, you’d be fucking helpless, and your inability to internalize that and have it impact your view on the world is a common human failing.
If the bombs Israel purposefully dropped on civilians killed someone you cared about, you wouldn’t be on here arguing against people who use the word genocide. People you yourself admit aren’t actually saying anything wrong. You’re trying to move people who are literally just stating facts about the world in an emotionally charged way away from intense language. To what end? Do you actually care? Probably not.
You should develop some empathy. It’s not a weakness.
Biden is actively supporting Nazi style Genocide right now.
But not the figurative one. Literal Nazi Genocide.
You’re highly regarded
Hyperbole, especially given the historical origin of Hamas as a Waffen-SS Afrikakorp unit.
I don’t know what’s worse the irony of claiming Hamas had anything to do with the Nazis or the fact that many israelis were originally colonists from Apartheid South Africa that moved the israel to continue doing Colonialism and White Nationalism there.
This is flat-out misinformation. But that’s allowed here apparently. Still needs to be called out though.
Imagine being a Genocide denier.
Tf is wrong with u bro
Lies
And you think Trump would be doing…what, exactly? Let’s not forget Trump Heights
Don’t forget that he actually told an interviewer that Israel should “finish the job”.
Israel recently did the biggest land grab in like 30 years under Joe Biden. Not under Donald Trump. Once again there is no difference except Biden probably being worse.
Trump is a massive moron but he is not stupid enough to escalate into World War 3.
In fact he has already proven he is not that stupid because after the Suleimani assasination Iran retaliated. And Trump then cut off the escalation.
An Abrupt Move That Stunned Aides: Inside Trump’s Aborted Attack on Iran
But barely three hours later, Mr. Trump had changed his mind. Without consulting his vice president, secretary of state or national security adviser, he reversed himself and, with ships readying missiles and airplanes already in the skies, told the Pentagon to call off the airstrikes with only 10 minutes to go. When Vice President Mike Pence and other officials returned to the White House for what they expected would be a long night of monitoring a military operation, they were stunned to learn the attack was off.
That about-face, so typically impulsive, instinctive and removed from any process, proved a decision point for a president who has often threatened to “totally destroy” enemies but at the same time has promised to extricate the United States from Middle East wars. It revealed a commander in chief more cautious than critics have assumed, yet underscored the limited options in a confrontation he had set in motion.
I mean, we all get it. But Biden is worse? What makes you possibly think trump will make smarter and more humane decisions for the Palestinian people?
Have you… Have you seen what Biden has done over the last 6 months? We’re talking literal Holocaust Nazi concentration camp extermination of Palestinians.
Why are you pretending Biden is personally responsible and why do you believe the serial pardoner of war criminals would be better?
Dude… everyone knows you’re a right wing troll here. Why do you keep up with this bullshit. You’re not pro Palestine, you’re just anti-Biden. The proof lies in the fact that nearly everthing you say here is for the purpose of shitting on him.
Just stop man.
Sorry are you the guy that claims israel is not committing Genocide?
And Biden’s administration sanctioned Israel’s settlers for doing those things, while Trump is the man who pardoned multiple war criminals and promised to ban Palestinians from USA
Trump is a moron who don’t understand escalation. If anything, Biden’s handling of Iran’s attack on Israel and negotiations shows he actually knows what he’s doing because both sides have agreed to deescalate after mutual missile attacks on each other’s soil. Trump choosing not to escalate singlehandedly is not a point in his favor, especially since he probably got yelled at for hours about the dangers and then chickened out.
Democrats should get over themselves and push through ranked choice voting in each state they control. Republicans gaining control of the nation is a existential threat, and we should be using every tool to keep them out. This means getting rid of FPTP voting and the spoiler effect inherent in it.
OP, you seem very concerned with how people vote. Have you worked to start an electoral reform campaign in your state? you can entirely solve the spoiler effect that you’re concerned with! What are you waiting for?
They would never do that. Then you wouldn’t vote Democrat anymore.
I remember that argument from 20 years ago! It was reasonable in theory.
But now ranked choice voting is a reality in some states. The Democratic legislators had no choice because otherwise they would have lost their voter support to a third party under FPTP, and then been even worse off.
Supporting RCV is a winning strategy and we should keep at it.
You’re both right. You’re saying the Democrats did because it was a last resort. He’s saying the Democrats don’t want to do it.
Have you? For someone who likes to make it sound like one person can make those changes all happen I would have expected you to accomplish a lot more.
Right? Biden was president for over three years. Did he do anything to address the rise in fascism? Of course he didn’t because he’s a procorporate piece of shit
Out of curiosity, I took a look at ranked choice voting in the states.
A funny thing happens when you overlay the map of ranked choice by state on top of red vs blue states…
This is part of why I’m seriously considering just not voting for president this year. They talk about an existential threat but they’ve done nothing to stop it and they repeatedly get caught boosting trump allies so they can campaign against the bogeyman.
I recommend you still vote for the most progressive Congress people that you can. That could make a difference in a few election cycles… Hopefully.
Oh yeah, I’m voting in other races.
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It’s a goddamn shame in what’s supposed to be a representative democracy that there are so many calls for those who supposedly should be the ones represented to change their views to conform with those who represent them and not the other way around.
Indeed there is. And I agree, we need changes to this system. But there are smart ways to do it, and there are dumb ways to do it. Allowing an authoratarian jerk in who will run roughshod over our rights and maybe even take away our vote entirely, causing untold pain to people you claim to support, is the dumbest and cruellest way of all. If you’re cool with that, you do you, but understand, I’m not going to be quiet about the choice you just made. It’s how we got Bush-43, and how we got Trump the first time around.
It’s those who stand to be horrifically harmed by Biden’s opponent who must swallow their morality and vote for monsters lest more harm come to them later on.
Biden isn’t a monster. Netanyahu is the monster slaughtering people in Gaza, and I’ve already written a whole missive on why Biden aids Israel while Netanyahu does genocide, so I won’t repeat it here. Biden IS squishy, and believe me, if I could get a more progressive candidate, I would take him or her in a heartbeat, but we’re not there yet. Not in a country where only 26% of the population willingly identifies themselves as Liberal and 74% says “no, not that.” I’m not saying we’ll never get there, but it takes hard work and dedication, like what Team Pepe has done to convert Team Red into itself. Surely, you folks on Team Green aren’t gonna let Team Pepe beat you at the ‘convert major party to our mirror’ game, are you? They have a rule over on Team Pepe: “Vote the Conservative in the Primary and the Republican in the General.” That rule works because they have leverage over even squishy Republicans that they don’t over Democrats. It works the same way over here. Biden is being pulled Left by angry voters, articulating that Netanyahu is risking support by attacking innocents unjustly. Pro-Tip: Trump’s voters want ALL the Muslims subjugated or slain, so he’ll face no such pressure. In fact, he’ll double down on supplying Israel because he knows that pisses you off and his main goal is to own the libs. So even by your ‘genocide’ argument, the only vote you have is Biden, to keep Trump out of office. Keep that in mind.
Edit: Brain Fart. Voting Biden won’t put Trump in office, thank god.
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I’m just replying to your words, dude, and pointing out to anyone who may be swayed by your argument that your argument is flat out wrong and cruel to everyone who will suffer for a Trump victory in 2024. But I can see why you might not want to talk about that.
To everyone else: Remember that Trump’s campaign has admitted to leveraging dissatisfaction on the left to push them to sit out the election. They’re counting on this so they can steal close states like they did in 2016 with Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Mr. Albatross, there are two kinds of people that push the meme that you just can’t POSSIBLY vote for the genocidal monster of Joe Biden. One is the useful idiot that’s bought the bullshit being peddled by Russia and the Republicans. The other is the sorry sack of shit asshole that is actually pushing the bullshit made up by Russia and the Republicans.
Which are you?
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Well, to be fair, I actually didn’t say you were saying not to vote for Biden until my very last comment. My first comment to you attacked the foundation of your argument, that you must vote for a monster to avoid harm coming to somebody else. Biden isn’t a monster. And I explained why he isn’t. And I explained that even with your ‘concern’ over what Biden has or hasn’t done RE: Israel, there is still only one choice for President, and that’s Biden.
But if we’re going to start accusing each other of dishonest debate tactics…what might it be called when somebody has concerns about how things are going, who thinks that both sides are equally bad, and who reacts to any criticism with semi-polite attacks on the ‘tone’ of the argument in order to try to make a person with an argument they don’t like look bad. So if we’re going to play this game, you might want to be careful with the stones in your glass house, buddy. ;)
Why not answer my point that Biden isn’t a monster, eh?
There are a lot of reasons things are the way they are - the fucked up way we elect a president, the fucked up way we count the votes, the fucked up way we apportion representatives - but the bottom line is that our government is broken and we’re not going to get actual representation out of it.
So unless progressives are going to move the red states en masse to actually change things, we need to get used to being an unrepresented minority, ruled by a different minority that has more land.
when the bar is on the floor its easy to jump over it. Biden is also better than being boiled alive that doesn’t mean I am voting for him
