What harm does public data have to you? Couldn’t one just ignore the ads? You can’t see anyone watching you, is public data good for public records? (I’m just curious). I know this sounds weird but is public data good for historical preservation and knowledge increasing the importance of the individual? And does public data lead to better products?
I’m in no means an expert here, but over the last 10 years or so, I’ve been trying to learn as much as I can. I am still in the boat of trying to find meaningful, impactful ways of explaining to people around me, why they should care about privacy.
Here’s what I would challenge anyone who takes the time to read this to do. Choose a random user in this thread. Any one of them. Go to their profile page, and see what you can learn about that person based on comment/post history.
Did you get an idea of where in the world they live? The problems they’re facing? The things they like? Now. Think like you were someone trying to harm/exploit them. Think of some products you could put in front of them that they could not live without.
Now we take that information, and start to put it together, we think, okay how do we manipulate this person into purchasing this thing.
Maybe we target a fake news article, stating “(target user’s generation) choosing between paying rent and purchasing (target product)”
Now that person starts to think “whoa, in not the only one that’s struggling with this decision, and others are choosing the purchase”
Now, maybe we target an influencer video to them, about how much better their lives are with that product.
Pretty soon, we put together a picture of how quickly and easily we could create an algorithm to manipulate someone into buying something that they would not have made the informed decision to buy. Now they value the product even if they can’t afford it…
I’m literally realizing this as I’m typing it… And it kind of terrifies me.
All of this is completely ignoring the concern of government entities, with I’ll intention, using the information against you…
Personally, its more about something being taken from me without consent and the ramifications that might have on society. And down voting you for asking this question is not conducive to a long lasting community
deleted by creator
One problem is that you don’t know who’s actually hoarding your data and for what purpose.
I didn’t authorize a random company to have access to a treasure trove of data about me so I have to lock everyone out. If data about me is being sold someone is making money off my private information. Ads can and do contain malware and consume extra data which I again never agreed to.
These are very basic arguments but I hope this helps.
When other people are at your house, why do you close the door to the bathroom when you are pooping?
“You can’t see anyone watching you” Why not just close your eyes, you won’t see your house guests watching you poop.
tbh I do it for their benefit lol
The more there is known about you, the easier you are to be manipulated.
If you read George Orwell‘s 1984 or watch the Cambridge Analytica documentary on Netflix you get an idea.
I started to read 1984 a couple years ago but it is so triggering I had to stop. It really sets your head straight. Might start again soon.
Just read it slowly, a couple pages at a time.
Yeah, you‘re probably right. Thanks.
Ask that mother and daughter that got arrested for an abortion after facebook ratted them out.
That’s why privacy matters. Not because something bad can happen now, but because that information can be weaponized down the road
Well, also, bad things absolutely can happen right now, they just aren’t as obvious. People focus too much on how the government uses data to abuse people, not enough on how private companies can in opaque ways. Cambridge Analytica is an example of very bad things happening right now.
Also consider how the Supreme Court basically decided businesses discriminating against LGBT is acceptable. With how accessible user data is now, it would be trivial to put together a database of gay people, particularly same sex married couples, that businesses can check against. There’s also every reason to believe rulings like that will continue and new avenues of abuse will open up for private companies.
With the data they could literally impersonate you, this data gets sold to shady assholes, the data is regularly leaked, most isn’t public data but shit like your location, phone number or sometimes even credit card info.
Also, why should i allow anyone to know about me, im a literal ghost online, you can’t find me, and thats good.
Uh, I can’t find you, but be aware that law enforcement probably can if they have a reason, unless your opsec really is airtight!
Its almost, but law enforcement isn’t my problem. (also they are incompetent in my country)
Haha understood. Beware Team America: World Police anyways!
What they gonna do? Send the CIA after someone online shit posting, they could find me probably, but they have no reason to.
Privacy brings security under totalitarian regimes or in countries that shift in that direction. They might say if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, but there are unjust conditions under which you have to hide things, like that you belong to minority that is targeted by the authorities. Like the nazis did in the third reich, where privacy was reduced during their takeover. Or that you belong to a party that is suddenly framed as evil and enemies of the nation. Or if you have connections to “traitors” or other “scum”.
These days, with “big data” analysis being possible on such a large scale, it’s possible to gauge the position of the general population, or of subgroup of such with ease. This makes it easy to divide and conquer, to manufacture consent, for whatever those who have access to said analysis desire.
I always tell people, it’s not about your data, it’s about our data.
What about neo nazis and white supremacists who use privacy tools to coordinate domestic terrorism like Charlottesville and January 6th? There’s two sides to the privacy coin.
Yes. But we still need it.
In the USA, the 4th amendment gives us the right to be secure … unless there is a warrant….
A big part of the privacy issue is first with government; we can’t have the erosion of those standards or we’ll never get them back.
Second is business, my existence is not a license for data collection of my activities. Like being with one person all the time, but never getting 5 minutes alone.
Because data brokers are obligating the need for a warrant when my info can just be purchased.
Yeah. Even though encryption protects bad guys, it protects my credit card when I buy something.
It has to cover both
You can also use a chair to bludgeon someone to death. Should we ban chairs? I believe the good side of privacy far overcomes the bad One can do with it
It comes down to a balance between cost and social benefit.
And privacy has a far greater value.
Thing is people who have bad things in mind are always more likely to use their own codes. You dont need an encrypted messenger to send encrypted messages. It’s a boy.
But normal people who think that they have nothing to fear and therefore nothing to hide won’t take that efforts upon them. They will live their lifes and one day they could be targeted by a government that wants to eradicate them. Using the data their predecessors gathered.
The same things that protects vulnerable people’s privacy also gives shelter to terrorism.
Yes. We know. We went through this already 20 years ago, except the boogyman was the Taliban and not the local fascists.
It changes nothing. Sacrificing individual privacy is not an adequate trade-off for the illusion of safety.
Anonymity also emboldens hate speech, arguably an even bigger and more immediate threat. When hate is allowed to fester in the dark, it casts shadows into the light.
Anonymity and privacy are not the same thing
And those people sometimes shoot innocent people with guns, but that doesn’t mean that people like Malcolm X shouldn’t have one to protect themselves against that.
Just because something can be misused doesn’t mean it should be illegal to use it properly. Often the improper use itself is criminalized and making it illegal just tacks on an extra charge that people aren’t worried about by then, because they already have murder charges to fight.
To add: the FBI was asked by congress to justify project prism by telling just one example of something they stopped with warrantless mass surveillance. Turns out, they had none, the case they provided they’d have been able to get a warrant for the guys and they were put on the FBI’s radar by other means, not the mass surveillance. They don’t even stop anything with it.
Amen. I see that argument a lot in relation to Tor. People don’t understand that for every one bad actor, there are a myriad more who live in places where they are unable or find it unsafe to communicate online.
I promise you that Google’s attempts to break AdGuard or the federal government’s begging Apple and co to create backdoors are not an attempt to stop domestic terrorism.
The most effective thing you can do to reduce domestic terrorism in the US, which is usually stochastic in nature, its to deplatform the people riling these people up.
Did you not notice how much quieter it was with Trump off of Twitter? When was the last time you heard anything about Alex Jones that wasn’t about his legal woes?
The right wing has built its own network called Rumble where they spread disinformation to their uneducated superstitious masses. These brainwashed zombies thrive behind a mask of anonymity. IRL these absolute loons are interspersed throughout the public, and our institutions are none the wiser. ID verification is needed to increase visibility and accountability.
There is no planet where you will convince me I need to present my state ID in order to browse the internet.
I am very familiar with rumble. We have seen its type over and over again. The same thing happens every single time. Because of their “commitment to free-speech,“ law enforcement just hangs out and either pressures the admins, who are facing financial pressures from nobody wanting to fund a website that has that kind of content, reasonable people feel repulsed, or eventually the feds get involved because something criminal is happening or threatened. Ask Voat. Ask Gab. Ask Truth Social.
Alex Jones did a lot more damage with YouTube and Twitter than he ever will on Rumble. These platforms will always pop up, but they are ineffectual in the long run. Ultimately, it’s about commandeering existing, massive channels. It’s about access to new people.
We need to target the hate problem at the root. Hateful speech comes from a hateful heart. How can we heal a heart problem if we can’t even ID the patient?
And on the topic of healthcare how do we accomplish contact tracing without complete records? Do you want to risk bumping into unvaccinated RFK?
deleted by creator
Deplatforming is not a stable long-term solution. It’s already a game of whack-a-mole. Cut one head off the hydra, two grow back. And the platforms themselves evolve or get bought by the next zillionaire. We need a more grass roots level of accountability, and that starts with authentication verification. Unique device identifiers are a big step in the right direction. And law enforcement has to follow the law. Just make it illegal for police to use the secure databases. Only federal agencies like CISA and the FBI/DoJ can access.
The red scare is a pretty good example for the US
You don’t even have to go that far back. It’s literally happening right now as red states seek to punish women who seek abortions.
Very true. The red scare was just the first thing to pop into my mind. Probably because I just saw Oppenheimer last weekend, lol
What was it? Kansas? That literally opened an anonymous report page for people who were trans or supported trans rights? What will they do with that data, is the question. Because they’re definitely not pushing HRT, therapy or counselling via ads.
Hell go with the lavender scare too while we’re at it
Wow, I had never heard about the lavender scare until now. Just did a little bit of reading on it. Can’t say I’m surprised, just extremely disappointed.
Check out Exit Stage Left: The Snagglepuss Chronicles. It’s just two arcs of a comic book, you could knock it out in an afternoon if you really wanted to. It is absolutely breathtaking, but make no mistake, it is incredibly brutal at key moments. I revisit it every year or two around the commemoration of the stonewall riots. You will not be disappointed.
Yep, security enables privacy, this is why the two are often referenced together.
As a gay man, there are some frightening trends even right here in the US. The more I see and experience, the more thankful I am for the people who value and preserve our privacy, and the more I value it myself. Even if things were 100% safe now, I think it’s a mistake when we take that for granted.
Society can go sideways quite rapidly.
Yeah, it’s insane we still have to deal with this in 2023… and it’s even worse for trans people, “transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely” and all that.
There are people who aren’t financially independent yet that are facing the very real possibility of getting disowned by their family and thrown out on the street if they come out as anything but cishet. It sucks, but keeping this kind of information private can be lifesaving.
My state (South Dakota) is super bad for trans people right now. I’ve been trying to be an outspoken ally. I worry especially about the kids.
Feel like this is just a bait post but if theres a chance it isnt, mostly for me its the principle of things. I think its my god given right to be in control of what my name or my identity is tied to and I feel that should be the norm. It was never just about the ads, its about the information thats being collected and if I can control it
Thanks, Confetti, our service unfortunately doesn’t agree so we know specifically what you jack off to and we’re sending that to Walmart because they know that people who jack off to the same things you do also really like Tide® Brand Detergent. When you bought your Home SecuriCam you did consent to being recorded (it says inside of the box that by opening the box you consented to said recording) so we’re taking all of that data. We’ve let our closest 903 partners know that you seem to be developing some chafing, so you’re welcome for that we’ve already added itch cream to your Amazon shopping list. We also noticed that you have a small mole under the left buttock, and based on data we’ve collected from our leading system, so we’ve passed that on to our partners at InsuriCorp (an eCorp subsidiary) who’ve declined to continue your coverage. Our AI has also decided that the footage you’ve provided voluntarily will make for an excellent education campaign, so ads showing your face and ass will be shown on major metros round the clock, with a slight disclaimer that we definitely don’t endorse the material you jack off to.
You give company A your data for a service. They provide you that service. However, unknown to you they sell your data to company B to make a few bucks. You did not authorize this, you did not know about this, you don’t know who company B is, and you have no idea to what purpose company B will put your data to. Best to not have this happen by not giving the data to company A to begin with.
Or admire the glory of GDPR.
Marketing use alone fucks the world up with peoples data.
The shift from “You have nothing to hide if you aren’t doing anything illegal” to “It is illegal to criticize us. We will keep an eye on you to make sure you don’t.” can happen a lot faster than people want to realize.
deleted by creator
