jeeeeesus christ, the idea that a component in your MOBILE PHONE will never need repair is a one-way ticket to fucking landfill electronics.
add a gasket, holy shit it’s waterproof again!
I mean, they said it never needs to be repaired, so just offer a lifetime warranty if it degrades. Should be easy enough
I’ve commented this elsewhere but it wouldn’t surprise me if they actually over engineer the replaceable battery and incorporate their MagSafe tech or something to make replacement batteries prohibitively expensive but technically follows EU rules. Seems like a very Apple malicious compliance outcome.
I don’t hope it will be like this but i would also love to see this concept irl. Seems like something rly interesting
The first thought that came to my mind was internal solid state power storage (good for an hour or so, but will outlive the rest of the phone) with an external MagSafe battery. Call it MC, but that’s definitely a more Apple UX than disassembling your water resistant phone.
Force them to cover all water damage under warranty. And let them void the water damage warranty if you replace the battery. This will remove their bad excuse if « keeping the phone waterproof » as it will acknowledge that opening it breaks the seal.
So glad to see the Apple fans here aren’t a bunch of blind yesmen. With an R&D budget the size of Apple’s I am sure theres a way to figure somwthing out.
Really refreshing to see Apple fans who have not forgotten they are consumers who have features they want as opposed to accepting whatever decision is made for them.
Other site was a weird mix of people who seemed less Apple consumers and shared more in common with Apple shareholders with the lengths they’d go to defend things from Apple’s financial point of view.
Indeed, I personally consider myself an apple fan but there are definitely things that are bad. People who think apple has done only good and defend them at all time are just imo thr worst.
Especially since waterproof phones with replaceable batteries already existed. They aren’t exactly working from nothing.
They exist but not at this thinness. That’s an important difference.
I don’t think anybody really cares about an extra half millimetre of thickness, especially if it means that you can save hundreds in replacement costs and extend its life by a few years. Nobody’s buying an iPhone and busting out the calipers to compare it to their previous phone.
Apple’s sales fall and people don’t buy new phones because “it looks just like last year’s phone.”
There are so many things a company can change about a phone besides its thickness.
You also start running into usability issues. There’s only so thin a phone can be before it’s less of a phone, and more of a blade that’ll bend if you sneeze at it wrong.
Happened with the iPhone 6
I care. This thing’s already thick and heavy enough, and I don’t particularly care about popping the back off my phone to replace a battery. It’s like…once every two years that I have to replace it.
I remember dunking my flip phone into glasses of water as a party trick and it was totally fine. This would’ve been around 2010 or so.
use 3M’s post-it note glue.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
To be fair, accidental damage is never covered under “warranty” (or any other extended service guarantee “warranty equivalents”) from any manufacturer. Given these black rectangles go everywhere with us, it’s still very good to have a device that won’t absolutely crap itself as soon as it gets dropped in water.
I say this as someone who often sees customers bring in water damaged devices, wanting their data off of it.
Frankly though, I wish the term used was “water resistance” and not “waterproof”. That semantic annoys me.
Isn’t all damage accidental?
Nah, an overbearing parent smashing a phone to “teach them a lesson” isn’t an “accident”
Since Apple make no distinction between “malicious damage” and “accidental damage”, then everything is called accidental. However, there are times where accidental damage is covered under warranty (or rather, a “service program”) when there’s an issue that’s widespread enough that is attributed to a manufacture or design defect – the warping of the plastic on the bottom of the Late 2009 Macbook comes to mind.
I wish the term used was “water resistance” and not “waterproof”. That semantic annoys me.
In my experience they are waterproof. I have AppleCare+ so if my phone were to suffer water damage it’d be relatively cheap to get it fixed, and I fairly frequently expose my phones to water. I’ve never lost one to water damage so far.
My understanding is the water proof glue can in theory be damaged if it’s exposed to extreme temperatures and the like - that’s why Apple doesn’t cover water damage for free. But I’ve done that too (I’ve had my phone shut down with a temperature error a few times - usually when it’s on my motorbike in the full sun for an extended period of time with a map open… it’s fine while riding with the windchill but if you park the bike or get stuck in traffic, then it can overheat). Mine still hasn’t died int he rain including 60mph driving rain (on the motorbike…) which it’s supposedly not designed to handle. Every time that’s happened I haven’t really had a choice. I’d rather get where I’m going than stand in the rain parked on the side of the road waiting how long, five minutes? three hours? for the rain to stop.
The one time I have lost a phone to the water damage it wasn’t water it was extreme humidity. So I suspect putting the phone in a backpack, and then riding a motorbike in the rain, will actually increase the risk. Proper water has surface tension that stops it entering microscopic gaps. Humidity doesn’t do that. And the inside of a backpack is never dry on a motorbike in the rain.
You should read AppleCare+ ToS before you make that claim. They will absolutely let you file a claim for accident damage (it is spelled out in the ToS).
AppleCare is not warranty (but is an equivalent), while AppleCare+ is the equivalent of insurance. I’ve edited my post to clarify this a little better.
Im curios how often do you drop your phone in water? I swear to god in my now 35 years, I never lost a phone nor a smartphone due to water damage…
About 20 yeses ago - pre-smartphones - my sister lost a phone to water damage. It was in a backpack pocket during a camping/hiking trip and the backpack got rained on a lot. Everyone else’s phone was fine because they were kept either in waterproof backpack compartments or in trouser/waterproof coat pockets.
Around the same time, I also had a friend whose phone was broken when we were rafting and the raft capsized. The rest of us on the raft had left our phones at home because _why would you risk bringing a mobile phone on a homemade raft?!_
Those are the only two instances I know of personally where someone’s phone has been destroyed by water damage and it hasn’t just been an “oops I dropped it in the toilet” situation (I’m still not sure how people manage that). And even the second example was still due to stupidity, I think - there’s a reason the rest of us didn’t rake our phones on the raft. My sister’s phone being damaged in the backpack is the only one that didn’t feel preventable, and where a water resistance phone would genuinely have been a good thing.
“oops I dropped it in the toilet” situation (I’m still not sure how people manage that).
Have a sweater or a jacket on, put the phone in your pocket. Do your duty, turn just a little too fast when going to flush, and your phone flies out of your pocket and arcs right into your doody.
:(
I swim with my galaxy phone. It’s nice to be able to take pics of my son anywhere in the water park.
I get caught outside in the rain unexpectedly about a dozen times a year living in a tropical city where it can go from dry to raining so heavy you can’t see the other side of the street with about 30 seconds warning.
Those powerful storms are often very small and they might only rain for a minute or two. It’s impossible to predict when they will pass over, the city might be hit by 50 or so of them in a single day, but they’re so small most of the city won’t see any rain even though it technically rained 50 times somewhere in the city.
Despite being small they it can be heavy enough to cause flash flooding. The city has pumps that can force 70,000 litres of water per second out of the city and into the ocean (before that, it was near impossible to live here).
I carry a dry bag for my laptop and headphones everywhere I go, I guess I’d be putting my phone in there too, which will be annoying.
I don’t need to be careless or have any real danger of dropping my phone in water to worry about water protection; humidity, sweat, rain, accidental splashes from a sink, spilled drinks, children, etc. are all very real often unpredictable water risks I might have very little opportunity to realistically avoid. I’ve seen those water detection stickers indicate water on devices that I know for a fact have been babied and never dunked for even a moment. Often humidity and a sweaty pocket were the only likely culprit.
People read their phones on the toilet - probably every single modern phone user has done it at least once. It is not inconceivable that a small, but significant, number of them have fumbled the phone and it has fallen into the bowl.
Likewise, pools, beaches, and boats are places people are very likely to go with their phones in tow and in use. It is not unlikely some of those - one can assume - millions of instances have produced some contacts between phone and water.
I ride a motorcycle and mount my phone on the handlebars for guidance. I spend a lot of effort keeping it dry and have actually lost a couple of USB cables (but not the phone, thankfully) to damp.
Frankly though, I wish the term used was “water resistance” and not “waterproof”. That semantic annoys me.
Better is to use an ingress protection code, which provides standardized ratings for exactly how dust and water resistant a device is. Apple does use IP codes and rates the latest iPhones as IP68: dust-tight, submersible at a depth and duration specified by the manufacturer. Apple specifies “maximum depth of 6 meters up to 30 minutes”.
Even if that weren’t the case, waterproof devices with replaceable batteries have already been made for years. There is no technical reason water resistance precludes replaceable batteries. It’s just more bullshit.
Apple does love to take designs that makes their devices enter the realm of disposable tech. Like soldering storage and ram on their MacOS running devices in the name of speed, but one that is not noticeable to the average user. And decreases peoples ability to upgrade it to use even longer like they did the older macs.
So fighting against replaceable batteries seems along the line for them.
removed by mod
iCloud private relay is the one reason I won’t leave Apple ecosystem.
removed by mod
Easy privacy so my data can’t be mined. I am not comfortable with any random company or person sifting through my browsing habits. Note to yourself and others: private relay does not protect or anonymize illegal or illicit activity.
removed by mod
I don’t mean to be pedantic, but private relay is a little different than a third party VPN service (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212614). You still have to trust the VPN provider with your logs as well as Quad9 with your DNS requests. There are examples of VPN providers that have said “we delete your logs” when in fact they do not. On the other hand, I have to trust that Apple is not logging my browsing. To me, the private relay approach appears to guarantee that but obviously there’s some risk no matter how you do it. I won’t argue with the dislike for Apple services.
It would be great if the EU steps back:
Dear phone manufacturers. It seems to be impossible to build water resistant phones with easily replaceable batteries. So we have an alternative for you: In future you must provide a unconditional, professional battery replacement, free of charge for 10 years for each individual phone which is water resistant. Since the phones are so water resistant you also have to replace all water damaged phones free of charge.
2 hours later Apple announces a keynote for next week. A week later Tim Cook presents us next years iPhone with an easily replaceable battery…
EU wasn’t asking bro
They tried asking before, with the charging connector. Apple effectively ignored them for about a decade, so they’re going with the firmer option now.
Govs should never ask. They must implement the regulation. The corporations are so greedy, they will follow for the money.
Liars! Galaxy S5 was IP67. One of the Xperia phones (forgot which one) was also water resistant but without an IP rating. IIRC one of the HTC phones was also water resistant. At the very least Apple, don’t piss in our faces and tell us it’s raining.
what do you call those little plastic building blocks ?
Lego?
I owned the Galaxy S5 and I fucking HATED it’s design. You dropped the phone and it backplate flew off, the seals were terrible, the stupid flap on the charging port broke off super fast. Let’s not use the S5 as an example because that shit fucking sucked.
You shoulda gotten the S5 active. I loved that phone.
I miss my S5 :(
I loved the galaxys5
Treat your devices better then, this was never an issue for me when I had one. And I never had a case on it.
deleted by creator
Motorola DEFY was IP68 rated
Put THAT in your dust hole, apple nerds!!!
Lmao
removed by mod
Like $ync. People need to eat!!
Are you familiar with the concept of market cap
Yes Apple will die if they make a better product for their users!
The irony.
“EU explains why it doesn’t care that Apple is refusing to make non replaceable batteries”
Apple needs to have a look at the new Surface devices: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/14/23761037/microsoft-surface-spare-replacement-parts-microsoft-store and https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/11/23453263/microsoft-surface-pro-9-repairability-improved-ifixit-teardown
Microsoft now sells Surface replacement parts, including displays, batteries, and SSDs / If you have a modern Surface device, then there are plenty of replacement parts to choose from.
Microsoft’s Surface Pro 9 has (…) now has a screwed-in battery module as opposed to an adhered one. Between that and other components having become more modular over the years, repairability is actually achievable.
But instead they’re already bitching to the press about this new regulations. This is the same crap they pulled with USB-C, still no USB-C iPhones whatsoever and unlike everyone else I’m not confident it will happen this year. To be frank Apple even decided to srew the customer even more by having newer iPhones come with USB-C to lightening cables and without a charger instead of plain USB-A.
Surface is literally twice the thickness of the iPhone (14 vs 7mm). That makes a waterproof iPhone with user-replaceable battery very very difficult, especially since users complained that iphones are heavier than previous models.
iPhone with user-replaceable battery very very difficult
Isn’t Apple allegedly good at engineering? I’m sure they could find a way. There are old Nokia phones that are as thick as current iPhones (or less) and have use-replaceable batteries. This has nothing to do with waterproof, its all about their continued interest in using planned obsolesce and other means to sell new devices.
Being “good at engineering” doesn’t change the laws of physics.
Those Nokia phones were not waterproof. Also, I’m pretty sure they were thicker.
An o-ring only works if the battery cover is rigid enough that it will not flex at all even if, for example, you drop the phone in cold water rapidly cooling the battery cover while the internals stay warm for a minute or two.
The battery cover will change size slightly with the temperature change and no screw can be strong enough to stop that. Covering the entire battery cover in glue and attaching it to the battery though… that will eliminate the movement.
Perhaps Apple can find a water proof battery. But there’s no way they can keep water out of the battery compartment while being user serviceable.
It’s always amusing when people who aren’t engineers assume something must be simple to make. Please show me a Nokia phone that was as thin as a current iPhone, with auto focusing video cameras (aka moving parts), and had a user-replaceable battery. I’ll wait. Samsung’s galaxy phones caught fire because they tried to make it just as thin
with a user-replaceable battery(leading to short circuits), so that’s yet another thing you have to prevent in your hypothetical “it’s easy!” phone. Oh and it has to be rugged enough to withstand multiple drops like current phones AND not lose any of that thinness.Edit: okay the galaxy battery wasn’t replaceable but you still need to make higher tolerances in a user-replaceable item to prevent that, meaning it cannot be too thin for safety reasons.
The Samsung note 7 that had the exploding battery issues wasn’t a removable /swappable battery, so you’re wrong. That whole phone was as glued together as iPhones of the time.
Such a weird take.
Good point, but that still supports my overall point; you’ll need higher tolerances to prevent shorts and fires which means you need thicker casings. A user-replaceable battery has thicker battery cases and connectors compared to devices where the battery isn’t accessible.
Look at laptops for a similar story; making batteries user-inaccessible allowed them to shed thicker casings and instead fill more space when they weren’t constrained by a user compartment and casing and need for easy-detachable connector. Going back to a user-removable design in the exact same size case means slightly lower capacity batteries, which customers don’t want as a trade off.
removed by mod
This isn’t Reddit, we are actually nice to one another here rather than make stupid taunts.
Sigh, again it’s amazing how non-engineers assume this must be so easy and they’re condescending to boot. The iPhone 14 pro has a much bigger battery than the Samsung Galaxy S5, which was a benefit of miniaturizing other hardware and removing other circuits. Apple could make a phone with removable battery but then you’re talking about going back to a 2014 sized battery with hours shorter battery life. Basically erasing all the gains of the last 9 years. You think Apple should go and build a removable battery anyway and give up their lead and stay behind Samsung, who isn’t making battery swappable phones?
I know you think Apple is being intentionally sadistic and making phones of this design just to piss you off, but surveys show almost nobody swapped their phone batteries. Apple found an engineering advantage. And since you’re being a jerk on Lemmy, blocked.
Did you even open an iPhone? Frankly speaking, if they didn’t have special screws and removed a few of the glued parts it would be more than a reasonable compromise to have to deal with their current connectors to replace a battery. The problem is that even if you have the proper screwdriver you’ll have to deal with glued stuff that won’t come out easily and sourcing batteries isn’t easy.
“User replaceable” can be different from “open a back case with your finger and pop the battery out”. I believe if Apple did something like: remove 2 phillips screws from the bottom of the phone and then the back/front comes out (without single-use adhesives) and a battery hold in place by two other screws and one more for the current power conector it would be “user replaceable” enough for most people and situations. This would be simple changes to their current design that wouldn’t, most likely, require a change to the thickness of the phone nor a complete internal redesign while delivering a very huge improvement in repairability.
By your standard then, Apple already has user-replaceable batteries.
Dude, Apple uses pull-tabs; their batteries aren’t practically fused to the phone’s chassis like Samsung’s.
Which Samsung phones with replacable batteries caught fire? Picture unrelated.
Hey, I never said it was easy, I just said that if Apple applied 35% of the engineering effort they apply into creating vendor lock-in, part serialization and other twisted anti-consumer “solutions” they would be able to accomplish it.
No, it can’t be done. The iPhone is as thin as it is because the battery cover is glued to the battery. Take away the glue and it just can’t be that thin (or at least, if it was that thin it would be too weak - you’d probably snap the logic board by just putting it in a pocket - sometimes phones get pressed against your leg and legs are round).
230$ for a battery!! They have lost their minds lol.
Well, still better than 1000$ for a new iPhone because you can’t replace it yourself, Apple won’t do it for almost the price of a new phone and they lock 3rd party batteries with serialization :) and you can buy 3rd party batteries for a fraction of the cost. What matters is that 1) you can replace the battery - no glued, soldered bs and 2) they actually sell them.
It’s not cemented into the chassis lol, Apple replaces it for $99 or you can just buy the part from ‘em and replace it yourself.
Yes the batteries are cemented into the chassis :D The last 3 times I tried to use the pull tabs they added they simply broke before the battery was out.
I mean, that sucks for you but pull-tabs are considered ‘repair-friendly’ by pretty much everyone in the Right to Repair movement.
I believe they might work for a bit of time, but with usage and eat they probably go bad and end up breaking. If you see on YouTube Rossman and others they’ve similar experiences.
Rossman is a device repairman tbf, he sees the worst of the worst phones out there.
Yeah I agree, it’s better to be able to change them than not.
Either way that price point still hurts for a battery (when an original standard enterprise laptop battery is usually less than half the price)
Yes, it’s very overpriced.
Apple charges $99 for a battery replacement.
I could accept an adjustment where manufacturers only need to provide an option in the current generation, I.E. they can sell iPhone 16s that don’t have a replaceable battery, as long as they sell an equivalent version that does. The argument for waterproofing seems fair to me, so the best approach in my mind would be to give that choice to consumers.
It is called a rubber o-ring.
That’s how other companies have been making water-tight compartments for batteries and other things for literally decades now. But all of a sudden, Apple wants to pretend this is some unsolvable problem. For fucks sakes stop acting like this is some insane ask, goddamn it.
No other government body is as consumer-friendly as the EU, so I really hope this bill passes and forces Apple to comply. I am so sick of the bullshit from these megacorporations who are so big they just don’t give a flying fuck about what consumers want. And on the flipside, there are going to be a million Apple apologists who will side with Apple on this topic. Those bootlickers only make things worse for everyone.
deleted by creator
Whata the draw? What makes you pick Apple over something else?
deleted by creator
I still feel like building an open source os form the code is more secure then believing what a company tells me
deleted by creator
Just wait, Apple will solve this with a rubber o-ring and will receive heaps of praise for their innovation.
You mean magic rings?! Or maybe they’ll be called i-rings.
They’ll come up with some stupid ass name like that to make it seem like it is a proprietary thing. Man, I hate that company so much.
The magic retina pro max rings. Available at an extra $29.99
The Magic iRing™ is a cutting edge, replaceable* sealing appartus for your new iPhone 18, made of military grade special compound and sleek design to ensure your new iPhone with replaceable* battery stays sealed to IP67 Standart.
Magic iRing sold separately starting at $99 *replaceable by authorized dealers only, needs to be serialized to your phone, Magic iRing™ must be replaced after every use.
replaceable by authorized dealers only
I believe that same law doesn’t allow that, no? Or was it another?
I hate how accurate this probably is.
The $999 rubber oring
iRing.
The EU dont care… lol
If I remember correctly: If it is watertight, replaceable batteries are not required. EZ way to skirt around this stuff.
That’s really stupid, waterproof phones with replaceable batteries are certainly possible and have been done before.
Nah.
To ensure the safety of end-users, this Regulation should provide for a limited derogation for portable batteries from the removability and replaceability requirements set for portable batteries concerning appliances that incorporate portable batteries and that are specifically designed to be used, for the majority of the active service of the appliance, in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion and that are intended to be washable or rinseable.
So watertight is definitely enough of a reason.
I don’t think a phone counts as that since it’s not something that’s expected to be regularly subject to water
Except this is a bullshit exception because not only is it 100% possible to make waterproof devices with replaceable batteries, they have existed for years already. There is absolutely no technical reason for this, and the exception probably only exists because the corporations influenced the legislators to effectively gut the law.
removed by mod
Waterproof phones with replaceable batteries are most certainly possible and have existed for over a decade at least. Sorry, but that argument is total bullshit.
“Apple engineers” lol
Get the Apple out of your ass
removed by mod
We had phones with replaceable batteries for a long time. Many of them were waterproof, but none of them exploded on contact with water.
Water resistance not waterproof. I don’t know if any general consumer phones that are waterproof.
removed by mod
I don’t follow the metaphor.
Yes they have, which tells me no engineers were consulted for this statement. Waterproofing and replaceable batteries is a trivial combination.
removed by mod
This is simply not the case. Saying it’s ‘trivial’ is like saying it’s trivial to travel to Mars because we’ve sent things there before. Reliably sealing anything with a joint is far from trivial.
Until you use some of that money for lobbying political influence they don’t.
Facebook can get away with advertising literal scam to kids and old people alike and there are no consequences for them.
