• @[email protected]
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    211 year ago

    Look, I dislike blue cheese purely for the flavor, but I’ll be damned i didn’t want to try this

  • @[email protected]
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    591 year ago

    It was disqualified for having an ingredient that was not GRAS(generally regarded as safe). Even GRAS is a pretty low bar for food safety.

    • @[email protected]OP
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      41 year ago

      Here are more details (and more context is in the article):

      "Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).

      The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.

      “It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.”"

      https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awards-19431532.php

      • @[email protected]
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        21 year ago

        I mean, asbestos is dangerous if broken down and inhaled, so as long as you just eat it and you don’t choke on it…

        • @[email protected]
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          31 year ago

          Ground chests are also probably not okay to inhale, but here we are eating them whole. Why not dip some of that 'bestos in guac? Should solve all issues tbh.

    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      The farm industry loves their subsidies and will fight hard to keep them coming.

      In the US anyway. I’m sure it’s similar in other countries but for ostensible cultural reasons.

      Edit: I checked to make sure, this is in the US.

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        Dairy ain’t going anywhere, it’s legitimately a national security thing for food scarcity (government cheese). It’s still also heavily subsidized of course (as is Corn). Now if that could be swung to a different animal (sheep or goats), that’d have a significant impact environmentally.

        • @[email protected]
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          51 year ago

          I don’t see why it has to be government cheese and couldn’t be government rice and beans or government lentils. Put the subsidy dollars into plant foods and it’ll happen.

          • @[email protected]
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            21 year ago

            I (and my lactose intolerant intestines) wholeheartedly agree. We seem determined to recreate the conditions of the dustbowl by neglecting crop rotation and mono-crops.

  • themeatbridge
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    4371 year ago

    Really, the disqualification is probably better publicity than winning the award itself. If someone told me some vegan cheese won a “Good Food” award, I would assume it was related to eco- and social-consciousness. Learning that it was so delicious that the dairy industry schemed to take away the award tells me they’re afraid of the competition.

    • 4grams
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      461 year ago

      Right, first thing I thought when I read this is “where can I get some of that ‘cheese’”

      • themeatbridge
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        201 year ago

        Yeah, well, you can’t. It’s only available to restaurants, and isn’t ready for retail. That’s one of the stupid reasons they can’t have their stupid award. Stupid sexy cheesish.

    • @[email protected]
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      2091 year ago

      When Seiko beat the Swiss at their own mechanical watch accuracy competitions, they decided to cancel the long running prestigious competition entirely instead of make a better watch.

      Capitalism breeds innovation!

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        To be fair, a crystal clock is just going to be more accurate than a movement based watch. Even the biggest watch fanboys admit that a $30 Seiko Casio outperforms the majority of mechanicals on raw accuracy.

        • @[email protected]
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          1 year ago

          So… The existing market leader chose to flip the table instead of admitting that their position was weaker and lower value.

          Yep, that sure sounds like the pursuit of capital instead of… innovation, quality, or any of the other attributes capitalism attempts to associate itself with.

          • @[email protected]
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            1 year ago

            The Neuchâtel Observatory is a publicly funded institution that certifies movements with high accuracy as chronometers. Not a private body, or a marketing tool used by a watchmaker. The same ‘competition’ is done by other observatories, all giving their own rating of a timepiece’s accuracy against a reference chronometer kept at the observatory.

            A quick search could have brought you that information_ Quartz movements beat the pants off mechanical movements, and they’re far cheaper to make, allowing the non-rich to have a decent watch with good battery life and serious accuracy. Cheap and normal mechanical watches regularly drift and lose a few seconds time over days and weeks - quartz drifts between 1-110 seconds over a year.

            • @[email protected]
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              51 year ago

              They aren’t talking about quartz watches though. Seiko makes mechanical watches that were being compared to swiss mechanical watches costing way more.

        • @[email protected]
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          161 year ago

          Seiko makes mechanical watches that cost under $100 and are just as precise and long-lasting as a Swiss watch.
          You’re probably thinking of Casio.

        • @[email protected]
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          31 year ago

          So funnily enough, the very first movement they submitted to the contest in 1963 was a quartz, and it placed tenth overall. They went with mechanical movements for subsequent competitions, and didn’t actually start placing high again until 1966 when they placed ninth overall. In ‘67 they did even better, placing fourth, but then the contest was canceled for good the next year.

      • @[email protected]
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        851 year ago

        Same with Japanese Scotch whiskeys absolutely running the table on ones from Scotland in competitions.

        • @[email protected]
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          291 year ago

          That’s partly because “Scotch” is a protected label. You can only call a Whisky Scotch if it was distilled with a certain technique, from certain grains, by certain companies, and matured in certain casks for a certain amount of time. All of it is regulated.

          Japanese whisky doesn’t have these limitations. They can just do whatever makes it taste good.

          • @[email protected]
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            71 year ago

            The Japanese distilleries are following all the rules. They are just doing it in Japan and better.

          • Captain Aggravated
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            131 year ago

            Scotch whisky must be made in Scotland. Similar story with bourbon, bourbon must be made in the United States. In many places you can follow the same recipes and processes as those products, but you may not label them with those terms.

            • @[email protected]
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              31 year ago

              You can make whiskey, though. According to the EU, if you have a product distilled from grain mash and stored, at full undiluted strength, in wood casks for at least three years, you can call it whiskey. You can produce a Single Malt Whiskey, or a Rye Whiskey, anywhere you want and in fact some German Korn would qualify as whiskey as it’s aged long enough.

              Side note: Whisky wasn’t always aged. Originally it pretty much resembled Korn (though German noses have some rather strict standards when it comes to fusel alcohols that Whisky and Vodka producers don’t tend to have), then the UK prohibition came along and distillers had no choice but to let the stuff age in its casks while they fought the legislation, then they were allowed to sell the aged stuff, aged much longer than was previously common, and the rest is history.

            • @[email protected]
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              61 year ago

              Yes, but being made in Scotland isn’t enough to call your whisky Scotch. There’s a whole rulebook.

              • Captain Aggravated
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                81 year ago

                Yes, and being distilled and aged in Scotland are both rules in that rule book. Again, same for bourbon, not all American whiskies are eligible to be labeled as bourbon.

              • @[email protected]
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                21 year ago

                I’m an American, and we just don’t really buy into the whole “you must be from this region to be called this item”. All sparkling wine is champagne, all peaty whiskey is scotch, and all rice liqur is sake.

    • @[email protected]
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      11 year ago

      You’re right, but it’s understandable why the dairy industry shat themselves. They fucked up by allowing things to be named “oat milk” or “whatever milk”, so they damn sure aren’t going to let their “cheese” territory get encroached on.

    • @[email protected]
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      91 year ago

      I could have never known this award even existed if not for this news. I don’t care at all for cheese and now I’m curious to try it.

  • @[email protected]
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    401 year ago

    I dunno, I think I’m on the side of “it might taste great but if it’s vegan it doesn’t meet the definition of cheese.”

    • @[email protected]
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      121 year ago

      So I don’t necessarily agree in general, it depends on how you define milk… If you curdle a liquid and it becomes cheese like, it’s probably cheese? Unless milk can only come from mammals/animals.

      • @[email protected]
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        301 year ago

        I would, in fact, definite milk as only coming from a mammal. Coconut milk or soy milk or nut milk or whatever else may superficially resemble milk but they’re pretty fundamentally not the same sort of substance as milk.

        • @[email protected]
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          141 year ago

          There are texts going back to the 8th century talking about almond milk. That ship sailed before Columbus.

          • @[email protected]
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            31 year ago

            Just because it’s called the same, doesn’t mean it generally is. In Germany we have something called “Scheuermilch”, which literally translates into “abrasion milk”. The only property it shares with milk or even plant-milk is its colour. It’s a cleaning product. You could of course define milk more broadly as “white liquid”…

            Fun fact on the side: almond milk & co. are not allowed to be called milk on the packaging in germany. They’re usually called something along the lines of “almond drink”. Reason being because it might confuse the buyer. Scheuermilch is still allowed to be called Scheuermilch though and coconut milk is still coconut milk. So according to our government, apparently, milk can be any white liquid unless it’s a plant based substitute for cow milk. Then it’s something entirely different.

            • @[email protected]
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              11 year ago

              So it’s arbitrary except for the whitish color. So who do you think is pushing for the name changes, because we’ve been doing this for 1200 years now. I expect someone doesn’t want to have to put dairy or cow on their labels. Goat milk, after all, is still unquestionably milk and is still called goat milk.

    • @[email protected]OP
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      201 year ago

      There was a time when the “definition” of marriage was a union between only one amab and afab person. Definitions change.

      • @[email protected]
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        141 year ago

        And I suppose it is up to the organizers of a contest over cheese to define the parameters of what constitutes cheese. But milk seems like a reasonable starting point. It is, after all, a dairy product.

        • @[email protected]OP
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          81 year ago

          Plant-based cheeses are allowed in their competition. They technically got disqualified because one of the ingredients is some type of fat that currently doesn’t have GRAS (generally recognized as safe) status. Except they only made it an issue after the plant-based cheese had won.

          The whole resistance to reinterpreting culinary language is just nothing but anti-competitiveness.

          • @[email protected]
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            1 year ago

            That actually strikes me as a extremely reasonable justification for disqualifying it. The fact that they only noticed after it won is also not particularly suspicious.

            Edit: how many alt accounts are down voting me for saying that you shouldn’t be allowed to enter in a food with potentially unsafe ingredients?

            • @[email protected]OP
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              11 year ago

              I’ll just copy and paste the same thing I replied with, above:

              Here are more details (and more context is in the article):

              "Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).

              The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.

              “It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.”"

              https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awards-19431532.php

          • @[email protected]
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            1 year ago

            Maybe they didn’t make it an issue until after because it was under their radar? Once it became the center of attention they might have thought safety of the winner was important? The vast majority of the comments in this thread don’t even seem to know why it was disqualified.

            This whole thread strikes me as odd.

            • @[email protected]OP
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              1 year ago

              Here are more details (and more context is in the article):

              "Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).

              The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.

              “It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.”"

              https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awards-19431532.php

      • Sippy Cup
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        301 year ago

        Bro, come on man. I don’t give a fuck what you call cheese but likening dairy to sexual preference discrimination is a bit much.

        • @[email protected]
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          1 year ago

          didn’t you know that vegans are an oppressed minority? the dairy industry is their oppressor?

        • @[email protected]OP
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          101 year ago

          The lgbtq+ communities and vegans are both seeking justice in their own areas of concern, so it’s most definitely not extreme to compare the two.

          • Sippy Cup
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            81 year ago

            It’s extreme. The fact that you can’t see that it is undermines your entire argument. You’re not doing yourself any favors by saying that vegan cheese is as oppressed as gay people have been. No one’s being dragged behind a truck because they presented vegan cheese as a dairy product. No one’s shouting slurs at you.

            You alienate people who might otherwise have agreed with you.

            As an example, look at the other end of the spectrum using exactly the same, ridiculous logic. Selling vegan cheese is legal. Selling people was also once legal.

            You really believe in veganism and that’s great. I’m happy for you. But punch in your weight class my dude. Some people think vegan blue cheese is better, but it lost a competition for not technically being cheese. Some people think chili has beans, but since 1967 beans have been strictly forbidden from ICS cookoffs but the people’s choice competitions strictly require them. There are reasonable parallels to be drawn there.

            There is no reasonable parallel between vegan cheese in a cheese cookoff, and actual hatred of LGBTQ+ people

            • @[email protected]
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              51 year ago

              You’re straw manning their argument. They aren’t comparing the oppression of LGBTQIA+ folk to the oppression of cheese. The comparison is to the oppression of animals - who most definitely are being dragged behind the truck.

              You can, and probably would, make the argument that animals don’t deserve the same level of moral consideration as LGBTQIA+ humans, but the vegan argument is that non-human animals experience pain and suffering and deserve the same right to life and non-exploitation for the same reason that any human (LGBTQIA+ or not) does.

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        If we can define plant products as milk then we could also define cows as plants. It would make vegan chili contests more interesting.

  • Phoenixz
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    161 year ago

    That is a rather clickbaity title, with some rage baity jpurnalism right there.

  • @[email protected]
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    371 year ago

    The dairy and meat lobbies are something else. It’s like smoking in the fifties.

    It’s well established that there are serious health concerns when you consume animal produce (not to mention environmental and animal welfare ones), yet the industry keeps pushing back on plant-based alternatives.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 year ago

      I’ve heard of potential health issues from red meat consumption, but all animal products? That’s a first for me. Do you have any sources to share on this?

      • @[email protected]OP
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        11 year ago

        Technically it can’t be all animal products, since honey is about 98% sugar, and despite the hate campaign currently hitting carbs, sugar is not quite as harmful (in and of itself) as it’s made out to be.

        But if we’re referring to all animal products in the sense of meat, dairy, and eggs - those three foods have nutritional properties that are all very similar and they do have some overlap in terms of health issues.

        The biggest thing they have in common is being a package deal with high amounts of saturated fat and cholesterol. Heart disease is generally the industrialized world’s number one killer, and all three animal foods initiate the onset and progress the state of heart disease.

        Then there are issues that are less settled, like to what degree do these foods cause various cancers?

        And then this one is even more in need of further study, but there might be a link between these foods and autoimmune disorders.

        https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/meat-bad-you-and-environment

        https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/processed-meat

        https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-about-dairy

        https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-with-eggs

        • @[email protected]
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          11 year ago

          I’m aware that there’s evidence of saturated fats having undesirable effects on your health. But plenty of meats are low in saturated fats (e.g. skinless chicken breast, or fish).

          • @[email protected]OP
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            11 year ago

            Relatively low if you compare it only to other meats or animal products. So while you can choose animal products that might progress these chronic metabolic diseases slower, you are still advancing them. But there are lots of factors that complicate things. For example the health impacts of animal products also depend on how you cook them, and what you eat them with. Cured meats are unanimously considered one of the worst things you can consume, right up there with smoking. Steamed fish would probably be about the least harmful (except that fish have some of the highest levels of bioaccumulated toxins and heavy metals). Actually, bugs are likely the least harmful, for those who are comfortable with that. Eating a source of fiber mitigates some of the harm from animal products as shown in this video:

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C08mqjMuwyY

            Further complicating things is that single nutrients often behave differently depending on context. For example antioxidants other than some of the essential vitamins have never been shown to produce their purported effects outside of laboratory conditions, and some supplemented sources of antioxidants have even been shown to be a little harmful. But when we test the whole foods that contain those antioxidants, we get data like how increasing leafy green consumption has been correlated with a longer life expectancy.

            And it’s similar for saturated fats and animal products. In the most established science on the matter you’ll see they don’t just talk about saturated fat alone - the science appears to show a relationship between the ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats consumed, particularly polyunsaturated fats. This book describes that science quite well-

            https://www.redpenreviews.org/reviews/eat-drink-and-be-healthy/

            But going back to that nutrients vs whole foods, there might be more than just the fats at play. This piece by Colin Campbell is a bit of a manifesto against nutritional reductionism, and suggests that the animal proteins themselves might play more of a role than we had thought:

            https://nutritionstudies.org/is-saturated-fat-really-that-bad/

            When you put whole diets to the test, what starts to become most consistent is how the most whole-plant-dominant diets by far achieve the most remarkable results. It’s apparent in the Adventist Health Studies, the Esselstyn Heart Disease Reversal diet, as well as Dean Ornishes full lifestyle intervention program. The latter two claim they can reverse heart disease, which is a controversial claim. More study is needed to prove whether that’s true or false, but regardless it’s still apparent that these fully plant-based dietary interventions do more than any others to restore people to good health.

            And it’s a thing where science and personal experience match. If you check out the online whole-food plant-based support communities, you see people routinely report almost miraculous changes to their health and wellbeing in a matter of weeks or even days. It’s the kind of thing that once you experience it fully enough, you don’t want to go back.

            https://adventisthealthstudy.org/studies/AHS-2/findings-lifestyle-diet-disease

            https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program

            https://www.ornish.com/

      • @[email protected]
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        21 year ago

        Try watching the documentary “You are what you eat” on Netflix, it’s a good intro that covers the health risks of other animal products as well.

        • @[email protected]
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          21 year ago

          I don’t get much time to watch videos these days so I’m not going through the Netflix series. Though it looks like it’s based off this paper, and that I can look through.

          They studied 22 pairs of twins, intervened by changing their diets so that one gets a vegan diet and the other an omnivore diet, then measured a bunch of stuff via blood and stool samples. I don’t see mention of how they correct for multiple hypotheses, but I’ll just give them the benefit of the doubt here.

          They found statistical significance in two places

          • LDL-C: Participants all start out in a healthy range, and they stay in a healthy range. So while the vegans improved on this measure, it also tells us that omnivores are perfectly healthy as well.
          • Fasting insulin levels: Same as LDL-C. Start off healthy, ended up healthy. We see the vegans having lower fasting insulin, but we don’t know if that’s a good thing or not when they’re already starting at 12.7 μIU/mL.

          So basically, the conclusion from the paper is that vegan and omnivore diets are both perfectly healthy, but you might gain slight benefits from going vegan.

          • @[email protected]
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            21 year ago

            Thanks for looking that up. I’m no dietician or medical expert myself, so I have to go by the more easily digestible media. That does run the risk of being more sensationalised.

            One thing I did take away from the Netflix series was that both the omnivore diet and vegan one were designed to be well-balanced. Everything in moderation works well, I suppose.