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Not sure how no one saw this coming. Every multiplayer game that uses malw- kernel level anti-cheat WILL inevitably be enshittified. This one is a reminder that not even the most beloved of games are safe.
Why do you think no one saw this coming? This is a reaction to enshittification, isn’t that a good thing?
It’s Gamespy round 2 (also, what an awful name for an authentication service)
GameSpy wasn’t an authentication service. It was a way to search for servers for games because the in game search usually sucked. When you launched the game from GameSpy it would simply send a command line argument with the IP address when calling the executable. Well that’s how it worked initially.
It was indeed used as an authentication service. See Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal Tournament 3 was released nearly 10 years after GameSpy became a thing. The name made a lot of sense for the original purpose of the product, and it did amazing things for multiplayer games back in the 90s and early 00s.
TMYK
🌈⭐
Here’s an alternative version so you can really appreciate the majesty of this dude’s belly.
i’m desperate to know the context of this photo, and if i’m correct that it’s in florida
It’s an AI-generated photo and it became a small-time meme some months back.
You’re an AI. Or anyway just A
;)
That is shockingly good for being generated. I can’t spot a single giveaway. If you don’t count the ridiculous scenario, that is.
Usually if you look at the hands something will look off
There are a few giveaways. I questioned it when I first looked so I zoomed and look at the part of a gator next to/behind the one he’s kicking. The one behind him has a strange arm/appendage connected to their bottom jaw, the strange “porelessness” of the image is almost always a giveaway to me—or at least it’s what prompts me to look closer.
And look at the guy’s weirdly short feet, the oddly small hands, etc.
This image is much older than AI images. Dude is just making up bullshit.
Lmao at the whole story.
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That’s the fusion reactor of that gator-kicking machine.
Also the docile look on the companion gator makes me want to caption him. Except I have no immediate ideas and am short on time, so I’ll just pretend he’s a socially anxious gator doing a ‘count to 10’ meditation and thinking to himself, ‘Come on GatorGreg, you can do this, you deserve to be in this space as much as anyone else, like your GatorTherapist said. Just breathe.’
That autistic gator is the Arrowhead dev team just trying to keep their heads down.
PlayStation players
This is the ideal male body. You might not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.
Sony has been fucking over the AAA gaming market for at least 20 years now.
Hey that’s a little unfair, they’ve also fucked the music and movie industries.
But this one sure was a doozy.
I’ve quit riot, blizzard, ea, activition, ubisoft, and now sony. There are so many incredible games to play out there and I don’t need to waste my time with publishers I can’t trust.
FR FR, I love that I can really associate with a lot of my peeps here on this topic.
You’ll be back for Bloodborne remastered and Bloodborne 2.
You’ll all be back.
Nooooooope
Back to my PS4 maybe
Hoist the colors, yo ho
From software is ok tho
I’m just waiting for them to majorly fuck up too. It’ll result in the most deliciously sweet tears. A lot of fromsoft fanboys are scum.
Bloodborne is sonys ip, from doesn’t own it :(
Honestly, they also enshitified it at launch by shipping alongside a rootkit.
I’m out of the loop. What rootkit was it shipped with/as?
The Helldiver 2 game shipped with a kernel level anticheat software, which is proven to be potentially harmful to player’s computers but fairly ineffective against preventing cheating/hacking. The concept behind it is that a program that runs when your computer starts up with the highest level of privileges can see everything that the user is running which could hypothetically help the devs blacklist problematic programs that they’re already aware of.
Most people, I think, don’t even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?
The thing is, they are right
They’re correct but they’re not morally right, yes.
Agreed
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And people are still buying and installing it in their computer? I don’t care if it’s the best game in the history of mankind, if it’s require kernel level access, it ain’t gonna be on my PC.
On Linux the anti-cheat does not run at kernel level.
But knowing Sony they’re going to decide to disallow Linux.
All of you playing on a pc already installed the insane rootkit of drm that it comes with, idk why any of you would complain about linking a sony account.
That drm is why I only got it on ps5, at least there its not on my pc.
Especially if you’re one of the people complaining about the PSN data breaches… My brother in christ you’re cool with having malware by definition from an insanely shady korean company on your computer.
You speak so high and might as if its incomprehensible that someone might enjoy this on say, a Steam Deck? Where that risk is significantly mitigated. It was entirely optional to have Sony at the start, its unacceptable that has changed.
It’s not just about security. It’s also about half of the countries in the world not being able to have a PSN account. Anyone in those countries who bought the game can no longer play the game they bought. I’m sure there are a lot of people who don’t otherwise care about the DRM who are going to be locked out of their game.
Serious question, but why can’t they have an account? Is it blocked or something?
Ah I see! Thanks for sharing!
PSN does not provide service in those countries.
Half the countries in the world: Russia and probably Philippines.
Because they understand “subscription”, but not " rootkit" or “drm”
Does installing it on Linux not negate this problem significantly?
It reduces the risk significantly, but does not negate it completely
that ps plus subscription where I’m from is too hard to swallow with the fx rate now heading to the 60:1 lvl
Pc gamers with 15 accounts being asked to create one more.
*being forced
And this is after they have already bought the game. Sony turns around and wants existing players to sign up for something that wasn’t there when they purchased the game.
How about you go buy a car and then a few months later, the manufacturer says you need to sign up for a free account to continue driving said car? You’d be cool with it? You wouldn’t think it was a dick move? Free or not, people are sick of needing accounts to use everything. It’s just another way for making money off our data and another avenue for our information getting leaked (does no one remember Sony’s track record for breaches and leaks??).
I mean, it’s standard behaviour for the industry. Gamers have been royally fucked in the ass , in public, for 10 years or more. This is nothing.
Standard behaviour isn’t an excuse for shitty practices. If you want the standard to become better, rebel against/boycott entities enforcing that standard.
Once upon a time slavery was standard behaviour. Once upon a time company towns were standard behaviour. Once upon a time, absolute monarchies were standard behaviour. Things got better because people didn’t accept the standard and took a stand against it. Not because they dismissed it as the standard.
Gamer compares been required to login with sony, to slavery.
Keep going mate - I’m loving it .
I’m pointing out that “it’s fine because it’s the norm” isn’t a logical argument by showing how absurd that argument sounds when applied to other things.
Logical arguments are sound even when you use them for other contexts.
When you use quotes, you’re supposed use words that words actually said by someone. Not paraphrase, not your interpretation. So, I suggest mastering the basics, before moving on logical and absurdism.
And when you’ve done that, go and take a long hard stare in the mirror, and ask yourself if you think it’s clever or moral, to invoke slavery as a means to win an argument about a PSN account.
You can grow from this.
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/ Quotation marks are for more than just direct quotes.
Wasn’t trying to use slavery for an emotional appeal, but as an example of a standard that was overturned that I could think of off the top of my head. I realized that there could be some emotions invoked by the slavery example and intentionally tried to think of less emotionally charged examples for my next examples. I used company towns and absolute monarchies instead of the first few things I thought of which were: women’s rights, homophobia/transphobia, indentured servitude, apartheid, death sentences. Most famous standards, that everyone would know of, that have changed for the better, are emotionally charged.
This argument chain has been going on for three days and I have better things to do in my life, so I will stop replying to this chain after this.
Hope this can help you start thinking about how to make logical arguments
I would like to jump in and say, I agree with you. All these people with CDPR launchers/accounts, EA launchers/accounts, ubisoft launchers/accounts, xbox game pass accounts, pissed off at the one game that has made every possible attempt to not fuck it’s consumers. Probably making these comments from chrome signed into their Google account on their personal computer signed into their Microsoft account. This requirement is beyond Arrowheads control, and it doesn’t even require you to install software that wants to run in your tray. Just use a bogus email, sign in in game once and forget about it.
It seems you had to create a strawman there to booster your weak argument
Of all the places to make this strawman, you do it on lemmy, lmao. Have you not seen the amount of firefox, Linux, etc., posts on here?
Homie, you’re pretty deep in that hole already. Stop digging.
I know, it’s almost too easy 😅
It’s Just gamers, living up to every single stereotype ever .
nah, you’re simply in the wrong
About what ?
Your line of reasoning
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Unless you bought the game in one of the countries where you can’t sign up for a PlayStation account, then you can just go fuck yourself.
Yeah and everyone that clicks yes to “are you 18” is right?
Jesus the bleading hearts for rule following around here.
Yeah i mean, if this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it ) it’s not something I’m looking to defend, but this industry stiffs customers on the regular, and in worse ways than this.
That makes it okay, obviously.
Being slightly less shitty doesn’t mean people should stop calling them out for their shittiness.
very true. we just gotta stay in solidarity with our fellow helldivers that may no longer be able to protect democracy and contribute to the war effort in this particular case.
The decade of epic face-plants continues. Countries, Fortune 500 companies, Billionaires, you name it, they’re all fucking up big time in the stupidest ways possible.
Good. They are all toxic parasites who offer nothing to society.
Right. None of your life depends on Fortune 500 output 🙄
Not a good thing
nProtect seems to be even worse than it sounds:
no idea if they patched any of that since, but accepting non-validated DLLs is some wild level of neglect…
That’s it…? That’s all it takes to bypass anticheat?
yep. it’s completely ridiculous.
I mean this pic is beyond epic.
I think it’s an AI image.
Nah… the guy is just walking on water. Perfectly normal behaviour (assuming he’s Jesus)
Gators barely sink in and those boots are as thick as he is
Speaking as a Floridian/Southerner and an AI worker… it is almost certainly not, lol.
it is
Isn’t this from one of the new GTA trailers?
Kernel level anti cheat, battle pass, micro transactions in a $40 game btw. It was shit from the beginning. Unfortunate cause the game itself is so good.
$40 is almost half what you pay for a new game nowadays, how much do you think a game should cost then?
As someone who spent 5 years making games, and 3 years in the industry, GAMES SHOULD BE FREE.
Good games come from passionate developers. Even the first major releases of Godot was built on the backs of 3 open source developers and some contributors. But when I started working for a gaming company, I saw the sleezy PMs look at players as nothing more than numbers on spreadsheets, fun features take the backseat to more monetization, and all the good content that made the game fun come from developers working overtime to make it happen.
People inherently want to make fun games. It’s the hyper competitive toxic industry that’s holding everyone back.
Do you think anyone who enjoys their job shouldn’t be paid, or…?
I think industries that pray on people who like their job end up making worse quality products
I think that means games should cost more and developers should be fairly compensated such that not only super passionate people would tolerate the working conditions.
Basically, it was a good enough game for it to be worth being that one AAA game you touch every 5 years, but Sony adding more bulshit past the refund window was the straw the broke the camels back for a lot of us. The other AAA bulshit we knew about going in
I agree with most of what you say, but the term “micro transations” does not fit. It does have a shop where you can unlock equipment and cosmetic items using either ingame money or real money. However, once unlocked the equipment is free to use as much as you want.
On the other hand, “micro transactions” means that the gameplay requires repeated purchases, like health potions, or ammunition. That is not the case in HD2.
Micro transactions are anything that you can pay money for in game.
Yes, have you even played csgo? Lmao
That’s not the reality of the situation at all. They all started kernel level anti cheat to stop problems that were being faced. Counterstrike is the easiest example
Counterstrike is the easiest example
Counterstrike, where the Official Anti-Cheat is VAC; An Anti-Cheat system that isn’t Kernel-Level?
“Beloved by all” Don’t be so hasty. I wish I could love games with kernel level anti cheats, but there are far better games with less risky software.
It’s a really fun game though so idk I don’t care (about the privacy concerns, your opinion is valid regardless)
It’s not just privacy. Kernel level anti cheat software opens up a new attack vector for malicious actors, e.g. your computer is less secure. Your system also becomes less stable and is prone to crash more often. This is all dependent on the skill of the software engineers writing the kernel level anti cheat of course.
Unfortunately, most software, if not most of modern IT is a house of cards.
I’m sorry to tell you this but once code has arbitrary code execution on your local device it’s already over, installing an anti cheat that is 100% necessary in today’s gaming landscape doesn’t change that at all. Name a single game with non verbal anti cheat that matters in 2024.
No. There’s a huge difference if a program runs in user space or ring 0. Depending on the security policies and admin rights management on your system, malicious software can’t do anything. If you, the user, blindly click “ok” in Windows UAC prompts or run sudo on Linux without thinking, that’s on you. However, kernel-level anti-cheat software always has access and thus is a much more dangerous and sought-after attack vector.
Hell, if you wanted to make extra sure you could spin up a VM with GPU pass-through and play on there. But this is also not possible with kernel-level anti-cheat software because most detect they’re being run in a VM and refuse to start the game.
That’s only the security side of things. If software has shoddy code it will at worst crash itself if it’s not interacting with drivers too much (like games and graphics drivers - and even then the crashes happen because of bugs in the drivers in the first place). If it’s ring zero it can make your system unstable, crashing your entire system and not just the software itself.
Regarding “games that matter”, define your benchmark.
Are we talking about games that have the absolute top financial success? Sure, it’s all the competitive matchmaking games that rely on a somewhat believable competitive integrity of their games. But then again, most kernel-level anti-cheat systems don’t even prevent cheating. It’s a never-ending cat-and-mouse game at the cost of the customer’s privacy, security and stability of their system. Riot themselves have a recent blog post detailing that 1 in 15 League of Legends games had cheaters/scripters on average. Not only that, their new-ish kernel-level anti-cheat Vanguard - like all others - has been defeated. So they need to update. Change methods. Become more invasive. Just never-ending. And new/changed code always has the potential for new bugs, bringing us full circle to security and stability problems.
Or are we simply talking about games that are fun for the individual? There’s a wealth of Singleplayer/Co-op and/or PvE only games that are successful without any kind of invasive anti-cheat. To name a few (you only wanted one, but I’m in the mood): Cyberpunk 2077, Vampire Survivors (and all its offspring), Factorio, Satisfactory, Borderlands (1, 2, Pre-Sequel, 3, Tiny TIna’s Wonderlands), Skyrim, Fallout (3, 4, New Vegas), Starfield (I agree it was a flop, but it mattered), Baldur’s Gate 3 (which had incredible success).
Do I need to go on? This list isn’t even just a personal preference of mine. A lot of these titles were highly anticipated and are hugely successful.
So yeah, you should be sorry for spouting nonsense.
They arent sorry and waisting your time was there goal. Thank you for a good write up regardless.
I thought as much. But I also believe you shouldn’t just let misinformation like that go unchallenged. Not for people like him of course, but for everyone else reading this trying to learn and/or form an opinion.
Ah yes, it’s a cat and mouse game so we should just stop trying huh? Maybe we should stop testing for doping in professional sports completely because people beat the test haha.
It’s exactly for “competitive integrity” and providing a fair space that it’s necessary. Riots system while not perfect, is OUTSTANDING in valorant, compared to counterstrike. Join a game of Dust right now on csgo, I bet you get a blatant spin botter or something similar in the open lobby. Do people still slip through? Yes of course. 100% isn’t necessary, just enough that other systems like bans and reporting can be effective. League has tons of scripters and macro users it’s true, xereth bots are for whatever reason pretty popular. But it’s better then it was, and continues to work reasonably on things that aren’t some kids saved macro on his gamer mouse.
People cry about this every time. The biggest of course being when steam did it. I just did a search and wow no surprise who has it, exactly who I expect . Valorant, pubg, fortnite, apex, R6 siege, tons more (325+).
Cheaters destroy games. They destroy the in game economy, they destroy the sense of achievement for hard to attain goals, they destroy any sense of fairness in ranked or competitive play. Game developers are allowed to protect against it. If you’re going to cry over arbitrary lines in the sand, that’s on you. The rest of us will continue to play.
I even write bots for popular games that I play so it’s not like I’m not disadvantaged by this either. You just need to find some actual conflict in your life and stop making this such a big issue. Will some anti cheat make a mistake and crash some machines or something inevitably? Yes for certain. But people will be fine, and they will get absolutely dragged on social media, gamer news outlets, etc. It’s a non issue.
Ah yes, it’s a cat and mouse game so we should just stop trying huh? Maybe we should stop testing for doping in professional sports completely because people beat the test haha.
It’s a nice straw man you put up there. Nobody said to stop trying other than you. So far I’ve only been pointing out all the negatives that come with kernel-level anti-cheat software. The cat and mouse phrase was specifically used to demonstrate that the ongoing struggle leads to the need to update the anti-cheat software resulting in the potential for more bugs, in turn increasing the odds of running into security and stability problems. I’m arguing for other, less invasive anti-cheat measures which don’t put the end user under general suspicion and force them to grant absolute control over their system to a third party.
But while we’re at it, you raise a good point. Doping in professional sports is done only at a high level. If we were to compare kernel-level anti-cheat measures to doping tests: Imagine you join a tiny local sports club in the middle of nowhere. Not only would they require you to take doping tests, but they would also gain permanent entry to your home and install cameras and microphones everywhere, promising - fingers crossed - to only use their tools to see if you’re above board and not doping. Having a third party have permanent entry to your home and constant surveillance sure sounds like a big security risk to me, especially when you consider that their measures aren’t 100% safe and can breached and abused by malicious actors. And yes, that is the equivalent of what is happening to your computer.
To reiterate: I’m not saying to let cheaters be and stop anti-cheat measures altogether. I’m arguing for less invasive and less dangerous anti-cheat software. Since the next three paragraphs you wrote are all about arguing against the straw man you put up, I’m ignoring those.
I even write bots for popular games that I play so it’s not like I’m not disadvantaged by this either.
I’m not sure why you wrote that. You’re part of the problem you helped to create and suffer from it, too. Do you want sympathy for suffering the consequences of your own actions?
You just need to find some actual conflict in your life and stop making this such a big issue. Will some anti cheat make a mistake and crash some machines or something inevitably? Yes for certain. […] It’s a non issue.
At this point, we’re entering personal opinion territory. For me, it is a big issue. Handing a third party the keys to my kingdom for a game seems wildly ignorant and naive to me. However, a lot of people simply don’t know about kernel-level anti-cheat, what they are and how they work. So I’m here to provide information which people can use to decide for themselves if they’re fine with it or not. Personally, I value the privacy, security and stability of my system. You don’t and that’s fine. But I can still criticize the currently employed methods and hope to influence how things are done.
None of this requires anything at the kernel level. It can be done entirely in userland. It is absolutely a violation of standard system security principles.
Why do you need anti cheat in a co-op pve game anyway?!? 🤔
I mean look at Payday 2, it had a pretty big cheater problem. I agree that if it’s not PvP then you don’t need an aggressive anti cheat, but there should be some kind of “You’re using cheats? Can’t matchmake with legit players.” system.
You’re using cheats? Can’t matchmake with legit players." system.
There is no reason to use something as invasive as a kernel-level anti cheat to do this, especially in a co-op PVE game.
Definitely, but the person I replied to mentioned any type of anti-cheat in a PvE game.
To be able to play the game itself and not a different game someone else wants to force it to be?
Your system also becomes less stable and is prone to crash more often.
That statement isn’t a theory and sounds more like a verifiable fact. Is that true more Helldivers 2?
Not to mention Sony itself has been busted multiple times installing goddamn rootkits
On audio CDs iirc.
Kernel level anticheat software opens up a new attack vector for malicious actors
This is one of my favorite techniques used by threat actors.
Essentially, for those of you who aren’t familiar with the BYOVDD technique, code is signed by companies when it is set to publish. This signature is proof that the company actually released the code, and generally, if the code is signed by someone you trust, it means that it doesn’t contain malware.
However, programmers are often bad about writing secure code. Security is hard, and kernel-level code is complex, so things slip through the cracks and the code becomes vulnerable to exploitation from the threat actor.
The fun part is when there is signed code that operates at the kernel level. To an OS and many security systems, signed code is good code. If a threat actor exploits signed code to arbitrarily do things like download and execute malware, or just behave maliciously, security software often throws up its hands and goes “Well, it is signed by a trusted company, it’s probably fine lol.” But because this code operates at such a privileged level, the amount of damage that can be done is devastating.
This was used in 2022 by threat actors to spread ransomware. The vulnerable kernel-level software they used was Genshin Impact’s anticheat.
Thankfully, crafting an exploit like this is pretty difficult to do, and since the signatures used for the code is revoked when malicious activity is seen, it is unlikely that you will see this specific technique used against you on your personal computer. But your IT and/or cybersecurity team might see the Helldivers anticheat used to ransom their systems sometime in the future.
