Some of the movement’s ideas seem difficult to accept. The more vocal aherents of the movement can be abrasive and very zealous. It can be seen as like vegetarianism taken to an unreasonable extreme for ethical reasons many do not understand or agree with.

Seems like most people on this post have fallen into the trap of judging a group based on a loud subset of the group. Most vegans/vegetarians I know don’t like to share that they are veg precisely because of that stereotype.

I really don’t care what others eat but a lot just of vegans, especially the ones who take it super serious, I had to deal with have just a aura of passive agressive judgmental smugness. Vegetarians not at all from my experience.

I think some meat lovers get aggressively opposed to vegan ideas because they know that vegans are morally correct. I say this as a meat lover

Most people think themselves as good people. Most people love, or claim to love, animals.

The existence of veganism and its implication is that there is an unnecessary animal holocaust happening, because of societal norms and for the entertainment of people’s palates. So how do you reconcile these things? By claiming that veganism is something extreme, something unattractive, something that is impossible to do.

People who talk about how “militant vegans have turned them away from veganism” are mostly lying to themselves. If an asshole told you not to litter, would you litter because of that? If an asshole told you to be atheist would you go “well now, i will be even more religious”? But when people make arguments like this, leftists realize how ridiculous those arguments are. Except when it comes to veganism.

Obviously you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar but i want to believe that people in this site can see past that and think for themselves.

Legumes(beans/lentils), vegetables, fruits, potatoes, pasta and rice is what most of the world already eats. Nowadays there are vegan alternatives for stuff and most restaurants often have a vegan option. It isnt hard to be vegan but any lifestyle change can be hard, especially if real life is putting a lot of pressure on you.

Any change is hard, being vegan is easy. Millions of people are vegan and have been vegan for many years. I have been vegan for 12 years now. There has never been an easier time to be vegan than now. Being vegan is the easiest and with the biggest impact thing you can do.

True Courage Is About Knowing Not When To Take A Life But When To Spare One

PS Salt potato chips and oreos are vegan. You dont need to eat healthy. And if you are a straight dude, vegan dudes are more attractive to women, even to non vegan women. It’s literally free +charisma in real life.

For me, it’s this subset of vegans:

Me: want a burger? V: No thanks, I’m vegan. Me: Oh, cool. Well there’s egg and cheese in the salad dressing so you’ll want to avoid that too, but I have some black bean patties in the freezer if you want. V: Do you know how bad meat is for your body? Me: Yeah I actually do, but we all make our own decisions about self-harm, don’t we? V: Factory farms are cruel and sadistic! Me: Agreed. That’s why I buy from a local butcher. V: RAISING MEAT IS DESTROYING THE PLANET! Me: Corporations are destroying the planet. Now fuck off and let me enjoy my burger in peace.

People don’t hate veganism as much as they don’t appreciate being judged for their choices and chastised by other adults for beliefs that they don’t share.

Personally I have no problem respecting the beliefs of people who are vegan due to their personal morals. Until they start disrespecting the beliefs of others who don’t agree with them with regards to meat, then they become annoying.

The meat and dairy industries have been pumping out propaganda for years, mostly aimed at right-wing dudes. It’s just kind of part of right-wing culture at this point to kneejerk react to veganism with tired old tropes and stereotypes.

It was worse back in the 90s and early 2000s.

Because I sat at a table for an hour with a work colleague lecturing me on veganism. I couldn’t care less if you don’t lecture me.

People like to characterize those they already want to disagree with by the worst, most extreme examples of the group. So before even considering the benefits/drawbacks of veganism, people have already chosen their position after thinking “vegans are just so preachy and annoying”.

It’s putting outrage before reason, and it’s really common in social media and news:

• Think about how Fox News viewers picture liberals as the least coherent, unreasonable individuals that they see get interviewed, when in reality most are just normal people.

• Or the reverse: how people in liberal circles might see conservatives depicted as Maga-hat wearing weirdos who think 5G is killing them.

• Same with how many religious people evaluate atheism or atheists think of religion by their worst representatives.

In short, I think the answer is that it’s a symptom of tribalism and identity-politics.

If you accept that there are moral/ethical problems with eating meat (contribution to climate change, health concerns, animals being killed and eaten, whatever), and choose to eat meat anyway, and encounter a vegan, what has to happen?

You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you’re making a worse choice. Most people are cowards and protect the ego at any cost. Rather than shrugging and saying “yeah, i should eat less meat. Good for you taking the high road”, which requires accepting that you’re not being the best, you can instead grab onto any reasons why no it’s really them that sucks. That’s easier, more comfortable, and doesn’t require any painful introspection or changes.

It’s the same mechanism when people get mad at cyclists, pedestrians, people who go to the gym, people who don’t shop at Walmart, whatever. They’re doing something that makes you feel bad in comparison. Most people are terrible at that and will lash out instead of doing anything productive.

Alternatively, or maybe additionally, people are really tribal, and once they adopt the idea that vegans (or cyclists, or people driving small cars, or people wearing sandals, whatever) are in the outgroup, then they enjoy being hostile to them.

People are ego driven emotional morons. All of us. Me, too. It’s terrible.

Cuz it itches the part of our brain that looks for status-seeking behavior and labels people as inauthentic.

Being vegetarian places a degree of exclusivity onto your consumer habits, and in the Western capitalist lens, conspicuous consumption has a lot to do with how we communicate our status.

Being vegan stands in direct relationship to vegetarianism as being even more exclusive. This does two things:

1. It raises the stakes, because now the identity is even more exclusive because it’s more restrictive.
2. It creates a pattern, where it looks as if you’re saying “Oh yeah? Well, I’m even vegetarianer! Take that! Look how cool I am!”

Just that in and of itself puts vegans on the receiving end of a whole bunch of cognitive biases.

But wait, there’s more!

Because mass production never lets a social identity go to waste, major brands got on board with explicitly labeling things as vegan, which starts to make it seem like you’re trying to be cool but really just deepthroating the corporate cock to “buy your way to cool”.

And then came the trends of organic/non-GMO, local-first, artisanal, farm-to-table, etc. etc.

At the point where Wal-Mart has their own artisanal farm-to-table cheese brand, it starts to look (to our dumb pattern-matching brains) like vegans are just rubes falling for the most basic version of an obviously fake status-seeking game propped up by cynical brands preying on how desperate you are to look cool.

But wait, there’s even more!

Because, surprise – our brains never actually stop caring about status, even if we think we’re just trying to make rational, objective, moral choices. Picturing yourself as a rebel for being vegan, taking the sneers and the insults in stride because you know it’s the right choice for the planet… is appealing.

And that self-aggrandizing image is inseparable from actually doing the thing, because that’s just how our brains work. Even for the most pure-hearted among us, thinking we’re morally superior – especially in tangible ways that we get to physically play out on a daily basis – is intoxicating.

So the people who are chuckling about the inauthenticity are… kind of right. But this same dynamic exists for literally everything. So when you chuckle at the vegan, but then take a moment to consider which kind of bacon really speaks to who you are as a consumer, you’re playing the same game. It’s just one that far more people are invested into. So if anyone calls it silly, nobody takes that criticism seriously. Not like your organic local-first artisanal acai kale kombutcha.

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Basically my recollection of this episode of You Are Not So Smart: https://soundcloud.com/youarenotsosmart/selling-out-andrew-potter

…which I listened to, for the first time, as an attempt at bonding with my then-girlfriend/now-wife’s roommate. We had not gotten along up until then, because she was aggressively vegan and I ate a lot of fast food. But I found out she liked podcasts and I was really enjoying this one and there was a new episode I hadn’t heard yet! She really enjoyed it, until the guest talked about veganism as a form of status-seeking. That didn’t go well. I didn’t mind taking over her half of the lease though.

No one likes being criticized and labeled a monster by an ignorant prick. They way too frequently act like every egg comes from a half zombie chicken that’s kept in a little box and tortured just for fun, or that a cow couldn’t possibly end up in a cheeseburger after living its best life. Factory farming is bad for lots of reasons, but it’s not characteristic of the entire industry.

Because the morals is on their side. Society should be disrupted everyday until animal exploitation ends.

Because many people see it as political, or at least moral. And that means they want to “pick a side”