This is only a concern for EV companies. The environmental impact of these subsidies and regulations is nill
This is only a concern for EV companies. The environmental impact of these subsidies and regulations is nill
Got a source to back up your claim?
Here’s one contradicting it:
Gasoline demand growth to slow this year on EV growth in China, U.S.
“Penetration of electric vehicles has been increasing in U.S. and China,” said Woodmac analyst Sushant Gupta.
Both the USA and China subsidize EV sales (and also petroleum exploration and extraction for that matter).
Biden’s environmental policies are still leading civilization to the same place as Trump’s.
“There is no future without electrification. But just electrification will not get us there,”
Daniel Posen is an associate professor in U of T’s department of civil and mineral engineering, and the Canada Research Chair in system-scale environmental impacts of energy and transport technologies. He agrees electrification is vital. But relying solely on electric vehicles to reduce carbon emissions from transportation may not be enough, especially if we want to do it in time to stop a catastrophic two-degree rise in global temperatures.
The article you link contradicts you, it clearly suggests that adoption of EVs reduce carbon emissions, but we still need to do more (e.g. ACTUALLY HAVE PUBLIC TRANSIT INFRASTRUCTURE) to prevent a climate catastrophe.
@[email protected] edited their post and changed their source. The old source cited was this:
" Can Electric Vehicles Save the Planet?"
Eliminating gas-powered cars and trucks may help avert a climate catastrophe. But they are only part of the solution https://magazine.utoronto.ca/research-ideas/can-electric-vehicles-save-the-planet/
That is the source that @force as quoting and replied to, and @force is right I was going to respond similarly after reading the original source.
removed by mod
The point remains, Biden’s environmental policies will doom civilization.
I thought you were on a bit of thin ground before, but I was willing to hear you out. Yet you’ve jumped laying the entire history of blame of climate change at the current sitting president trying to address it. You’re forgiving 150 years of industrial pollution, but damning one element of a path to address it as the thing that will destroy humanity?
I just don’t think I have the will to try to drag you back to some semblance of rationality. Carry on with your in your personal bliss.
Yes Biden needs to do more. The type of changes needed to avert catastrophe aren’t anywhere in his plans.
Surely the oil and energy companies have their own investments into renewables. I can’t imagine why Rs would die on this hill except for their little culture war.
Oil companies usually do not, but electricity companies do. The problem is that oil companies are great in geology, drilling and chemistry. Geothermal is a similar skill set and chemistry can be used in other products, but the first is small business and the other not renewable nexessarily.
Because you can’t corner the renewables market like the oil markets have been. Also oil dependence means a constant need for oil. Solar panels or windmills are much more install and forget. So yeah, they can invest in oil alternatives, but they won’t make nearly as much money from it.
You misspelled Russians.
I take that back, you spelled Russians correctly.
Is this why Elon is working so hard to run Tesla into the ground? 5d chess, something something…
IMO: If your post contains Political views and Technology, than then it should be posted in Politics and not Technology.
In my opinion, it should be posted in both because it’s relevant to both.
Not really, my technological interest has nothing to do with a political view. Especially when the “politics” are the sheepish “red vs blue”.
Are we in a “free market” or we not? The answer is “depends on what lobbyists want.”
Free for me and not for thee.
Might as well be the offical preamble of the Constitution (or at least the more conventional “rules for thee, not for me”).
Are we in a “free market” or we not?
Not.
Only when it helps to keep the poors in their place.
Not even only. The recognized goal of the modern marketplace is to achieve monopoly. Billionaires write entire textbooks on the subject.
Free market goes to the highest bidder.
Free market involves pluralism of systems and distribution of power as important preconditions. Lobbyism requires monoculture of systems and power being sufficiently centralized to be controllable.
Also, the free market is a tool, not a utopia. It optimizes for whatever the people setting the limits of it make it optimize for.
Hence things I said. Otherwise the wheel is free for taking for the worst people.
To play devil’s advocate for a moment, is it really a free market if we are incentivizing one technology over another?
That argument can be made about the tax incentives.
However, regulations about emissions are intrinsically something we want, and we shouldn’t hold back on that just because gas cars can’t get to the level of emissions we need.
When the oil industry doesn’t have to pay to clean up their externalities we already don’t have a free market. You break it you pay. Fixing the externalities by incentivizing better technology is at minimum a correction to the market.
Lol without all the subsidies gas would be $12/gallon. And burning fossil fuels (40% is automotive) kills more than 250,000 Americans per year. Whats the cost of a human life brah?
Yes, that’s the point. These politicians interfere and meddle and cry “free market” when it is convenient for them.
Would have been far easier to just type “there is no free market”
I think they’re more commenting on how the supposedly “free market” champions constantly interfere with the market when it suits their agenda
Exactly. Those people tend to be extreme hypocrites.
Yeah but in this case (EVs) it’s way better for public health and the “interference” is still a fraction of the scales tilted in fossil fuels favor.
Whats the cost of a human life brah?
That depends on if grandma is being evaluated by an Obama Death Panel (life is precious and invaluable) or by the stock market in 2020 (she has, what, a couple years left anyway, let her die).
In the US there is only one metric: Dow Jones death panel. The insanity of our culture is that Obama Death Panels were an invention of the Dow Jones death panel board to rally the lemming brained right against the concept of public healthcare (the horror!). Oh yeah, obligatory fuck Joe Lieberman.
Exactly I am not getting all this subsidy unfairness nonsense that stops Chinese firms from selling cars here. The only difference I’m seeing is that we’re subsidizing cars on the back end through oil subsidies, and they are subsidizing cars on the front end with production subsidies.
Why wouldn’t they? They are, after all, the craven whores who thirst for corporate donor cock.
So there are politicans who really believe that climate change is a conspiracy? Or they just don’t care for the future?
Remaining rich depends on them not believing climate change
Oil losing value, someone remind them that selling their bag holding oil stocks is a good play.
If anything, oil is increasing in value. It certainly isn’t losing it.
Less demand=less value. More electric vehicles=less oil
There’s an enormous amount of money in renewable energy and battery manufacturing. That’s why Texas leads the nation in wind farm power and Atlanta, Georgia is getting a $4.3B investment at its Hyundai electric vehicle plant.
But there’s also a ton of legacy infrastructure that generates enormous revenue streams. If you’ve just invested billions into our rapidly expanding oil pipeline network
You’re not going to want us to give up on mineral extraction across the American northwest or central plains.
This is a real clash of industries.
Comrades, it’s time to follow the example of Rico Rodriguez! Oil pipelines were made to be blown up! Along with military vehicles!
Alright buddy so you want to burn it down and cause utter chaos just cause you don’t like how things are going?
Well, when you put it that way it actually sounds a lot like the US military/government! You too should be friends!
…or are you only interested in blowing up pipelines in rich countries where the correct oil companies and defense contractors already own everything and are making money hand over fist?
If so would you hurt the soul of America like that? It would be like burning down Fenway or smashing the liberty bell to bits. Those poor executives would have to go home to their families and explain through tears and sobs that the halcyon days of shitting on the future of humanity for the next 15,000 years are over, and that consequences for the ruling class have officially arrived.
shudders what an awful thought!
Unironically, yes.
a short emoji novella inspired by your comment
> 🔥 🔥 🔥 🛢️ 🛢️🔥 🏭 🔥 🏭🏭🔥 🔥 🔥 > 🔥🔥 🔥 🛢️🔥🏭🏭🔥🔥 🔥 🔥 > 🔥🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 > 👣 🤭 ✋ 🔫 👮 👮♀️ 👮 👮 🚔 🚔 🚓 👮 🚔 👮♀️ 🚔 🚔 🚓 🚓 🚔 🚔 📯 🚨 📯🚒 🤷♂️🤦♂️ 🚒 > 👣 > 👣 > 👣 > 👣 > 👣 > 👷♀️👷♀️ > 👷 > 👷♀️👷 > 👷♀️ > 👬 👷 > . . > . . > 👋😛 🎉 🎉🎈 > 🏠 🏡 🏠 > 🎉 🎉 🎉 🎉 > 🥳🥳🍻🥳🥳🥳🥳 > 🎉🍻 🥳 🍻🥳🥳 🥂🎈🎈 > 🎈 🎈 🎈 > > 🍕 🍕 🍽️ 🍕 🍕 > 🎵 🎵 🎶 🎵 > 🎵 🎶 🎸 🥁 🎤 🎹 🪕 🎷 🎶 🎵 > : > : > 🪩 > > 💃 🕺 🕺 💃 👯🍻 🕺 > 🕺🕺💃🍻 👯 💃 > 🥂🥂 > 🍻 😆 🤗 🫂 > 🍻 > 🍻 🥂 😀 > 🥂 > > ⌚ 😴 😩 😫 💤 > ✨ 🌙 ✨ ✨ > ✨ ✨ > ⏳ 💤 > ⏳ 💤 > ⏳ 💤 > 🐦 🐦 🌄 🌞 ⏰ 🐦 🕊️ ⏰ 🦜 ⏰ ⏰ ⏰ ⏰🐦 🐦 > 🪥 🦷 > ☕ 📰 > 😄 > 🏡 🚪 ✊ 🔊 🔊 🔊 🔊 > . 🚪 ✊ 🔊 🔊 🔊 🔊 > .. 🚪 ✊ 🔊 🔊 🔊 🔊 > . .. 🚪 . ..🥱 ❓ 🕵️🕵️♀️📁❓ ❓ 👮 👨💼 👮♀️ 👨💼 👨💼 👮♀️ 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 > > . 🤔 💭 🙉 🙈 🙊 . > > 🚪 ❔ ❓❓🥺 😮🤦♂️ 😵💫 🤷♀️ 🤷♂️ ❓❓ ❔ ❔ 🕵️🕵️♀️ 📁😡 👮 👮 👮 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 > 🚪 👋😛 🕵️🕵️♀️ 👨💼 👮♀️👞 👞 👞 🚔 ................. -> > 🤐 🚪 > 😜 🚪
Electric cars aren’t going to fix climate change
Ok then that means we have to consider the fact that Car-oriented zoning laws and construction are bad for our future. 15-minute cities and infrastructure to support alternative modes of transit for longer distances are the way forward.
Yes, but an easy target.
Electric trains might, but we’re even worse at building them than cars.
They can be built from acorn and twigs.
Are we? Diesel-ev hybrid is fairly effective and proven. Making a pure ev would just mean taking the diesel out, adding more batteries and installing electrical rail or over head trolley cables to charge them. Trains run on a schedule, so logistic planning should be straight forward.
Are we?
Recently, yes. California’s spent 16 years not building rail. The Gulf Coast states have been tearing their rail out and replacing it with highways for over a decade. The Upper Midwest has just kinda given up on doing anything useful, and just watched its transit infrastructure collapse.
The problem is that highway advocates don’t solve the problem of “who’s going to pay for all this?”. The reason infrastructure in America is in disrepair is that funding for highways is supposed to be gotten from tolls and road taxes. But since everywhere in America is a freeway… there’s no funding for repairs.
Expecting the Government budget to cover maintenance of infrastructure is wishful thinking… unless you’re also willing to agree that the military is allocated too much money.
funding for highways is supposed to be gotten from tolls and road taxes.
Regressive taxation leads to overfunded main roads and underfunded side streets.
Expecting the Government budget to cover maintenance of infrastructure is wishful thinking
Roads are fundamental to the operation of any government. It isn’t simply that states need to maintain roads. It is that states need roads in order to exist.
Roads are fundamental to the operation of any government. It isn’t simply that states need to maintain roads. It is that states need roads in order to exist.
Is it right to say then, that the users of the roads pay for maintenance? Do you expect the government to print more money to pay for maintenance?
Edit:
Regressive taxation leads to overfunded main roads and underfunded side streets.
As opposed to both main roads and side streets being underfunded without tolls and road taxes? Do you expect Government to print money to pay for all this?
My point is is that the tech is there. There’s just an unwillingness.
In the states, certainly. Elsewhere, its wildly popular.
Who says EV are going to fix climate change?
It’s gonna help. There’s not an all out 1 solution.
But don’t you see, unless there is one magical silver bullet solution that fixes everything then it’s all worthless and we should go back to dumping CFC’s into the atmosphere.
We should defintely still make EVs, overall they are going to be better than ICE. We just shouldn’t force/subsidize everyone to have to buy and drive an EV like we did with ICE cars.
I don’t think it matters whether or not they really believe it.
Those who don’t, believe in money.
Have you seen how old they are? Doesn’t matter for them.
No children, no niece?
They’re bought by the oil industry
The weird part is, when you actually talk to a Conservative irl, they don’t care about EVs. Sure they might not like them—they might even think they’re a Political scheme or whatever. But they at least understand that there are more important things happening. Politicians failure to represent their user base’s viewpoint in the US is always astounding.
All that we want to do is see to it that we live another 100 years is that so god damn polarizing?!?!
But what if global warming is a hoax and we improve things for no reason?! /s
What if we do all this and all we got was more sustainable ways of living where depended less on complex geopolitical agreements with dictators? That would suck right /s
It’s all about the Petrodollar and America retaining the worlds reserve currency
I thought so too, but it doesn’t even make sense, because the only one they’re hurting this way is themselves.
If they don’t adopt EVs, it will be to their disadvantage in the long run.
“Long run” what’s that? The only thing that matters is quarterly profits.
unfortunately
Petrodollar shit is all old Soviet Cold war propaganda. It actually makes very little sense. Moreover, having the world’s reserve currency is not really the benefit people make it out to be. The dollar is powerful because the scale of the US economy is enormous, and the US has a lot of friends. But like, the Euro or GBP doesn’t suffer because random third countries don’t settle trades with it. And the reason why eg, China’s currency is shit in comparison is because it’s overtly manipulated and China’s autocratic instincts scare people away from using Chinese bonds as an inflation resistant cash proxy. The same exact things were true with the USSR, which is why they needed to push conspiracies about the omnipotence of the dollar.
Idk, seemed to really fuck with Russia for a bit when the US froze their assets.
Straightup
This is why I can’t be friends with conservatives of any degree. People always want to say “it’s just politics,” but it has gone beyond that for so fucking long that it’s not even a discussion I’m willing to have anymore.
Politics were and have always been personal.
Agreed. Conservatives bring politics into every aspect of their life. You can’t have more than a few moments without them making some culture war comment.
And by doing so, they force the rest of us to bring politics everywhere, or risk having everything that cooperative society has worked for undone. It’s really tiring to have the be eternally vigilant for bullshit that shouldn’t even be seriously considered.
And they expect you to hold their beliefs or stay silent. If you express a contrary opinion, you are the one bringing politics into the discussion. It’s like playing chess with a pigeon.
EVs are being built to save the car industry not the planet. I’ll probably get an electric vehicle once the kinks get worked out but I know how the materials are acquired and what happens when the batteries can’t hold a charge. It’s a baby step but definitely shouldn’t be stopped from evolving.
That would be fine if they were trying to reverse ALL personal vehicle adoption, but nooo.
The problem with this is that this will encourage Canada to do the same, like the good little brother it is, and we’ll get fucked along with y’all -_-
Have they tried helping Lower Gas Prices or are they just trying to make owning EVs Illegal like TRUE Small Government, Free Market Leaders would?
republicans are raping the planet.
bOtH SiDeS AkShUaLlY
