Summary:
Democrats are becoming increasingly concerned about a possible drop in Black voter turnout for the 2024 presidential election, according to party insiders. The worries arise from a 10% decrease in Black voter turnout in the 2022 midterms compared to 2018, a more substantial decline than any other racial or ethnic group, as per a Washington Post analysis. The decline was particularly significant among younger and male Black voters in crucial states like Georgia, where Democrats aim to mobilize Black voter support for President Biden in 2024.
The Democratic party has acknowledged the need to bolster their outreach efforts to this demographic. W. Mondale Robinson, founder of the Black Male Voter Project, highlighted the need for Democrats to refocus their attention on Black male voters, who have shown lower levels of engagement. In response, Biden’s team has pledged to communicate more effectively about the benefits that the Black community has reaped under Biden’s administration, according to Cedric L. Richmond, a senior advisor at the Democratic National Committee.
However, Black voter advocates have identified deep-seated issues affecting Black voter turnout. Many Black men reportedly feel detached from the political process and uninspired by both parties’ policies. Terrance Woodbury, CEO of HIT Strategies, a polling firm, suggests that the Democratic party’s focus on countering Trump and Republican extremism doesn’t motivate younger Black men as much as arguments focused on policy benefits. Concerns are growing within the party that if they fail to address these issues, disenchanted Black voters might either abstain or, potentially, be swayed by Republican messaging on certain key issues.
There zero chance democrats dont show up if trumps on the ballot nobody is better at energizing the democrats base than trump
They are tired of being promised 40 acres and only given lip service. The DNC uses minorities as political pawns to be used and tossed aside the day after election and minority communities have caught on. Hopefully they will turn out in huge numbers to support Cornel West. Someone that offers the same rhetoric and policy Bernie did without being a party sheepdog.
Wait, Cornell West is running?
As a third party, which will just split the liberal/centrist vote.
Splitting the vote is liberal bullshit myth, we wouldn’t vote for your shitty candidates if there were no 3rd party candidates running
Ross Perot called and told you to suck it.
Ralph Nader too.
This.
History. Learn it.
Pay attention in class next time. It’s a concern because it happens quite frequently in first past post voting systems.
Yes! He’s running as a green. And the democrats are ‘concerned’ and telling people don’t vote third party or else you’ll get trump!
But then when asked why they won’t add something like STAR voting to their platform, they go quiet. They love holding us hostage and don’t want to give that up! 🤣
If you vote third party in a presidential election then it is a wasted vote.
If third parties want to win presidential elections then they need to start by consistently and widely winning governorships, becoming state senators, reps, etc. They can’t win, and they won’t shift public debate, by running for president.
I’ve wasted my vote in presidential elections and I’m proud to say it, then. I’ll vote for who I want, and if the best mainline options are “old ass Nazi” and “old ass
racistsuper duper promise he’s not racist anymore, here’s a black VP”, well, sucks to suck, do better.I’ll start voting for 3rd parties when one emerges that’s viable, or when we get some form of ranked choice voting; under our current first-past-the-post 2-party system it’s a wasted vote that only serves the greater evil.
The only time I’ll vote 3rd party in a FPtP system is when one I agree with officially replaces one of the two major parties. Anything less is a wasted vote for president or senator.
Anything local though…
There’s a good reason Bernie never has and never will.
He’s been saying for decades he’s never thought he could win the Dem primary. His presidential runs has always been about motivating change.
It’s worked, and more importantly he’s shown why voting third party is just as bad as not voting.
Not scared of voting third party; just because I’ve never voted R doesn’t mean I’ve always voted D.
As a third party candidate, which is useful presuming one wants to split the left.
Split the vote is liberal myth. If there were no 3rd party candidates we still wouldn’t vote for your shitty corporate owned neo liberal warhawks.
Voting for a right wing party like the DNC does not position you on the left
How many votes did Gore lose by in Florida? How many votes did Ralph Nader get in Florida?
IDK, maybe you should ask the 15% of democrats that voted for Bush instead of Gore, and not the 3% that voted Nader. Maybe you should ask Gore why he lost his own home state despite Clinton winning it by a huge margin 4 years earlier which would have won him the WH, maybe you should ask the DNC why they rolled over in Florida and didn’t challenge the results.
Democrats are not entitled to our votes, and do nothing to earn them. Even on the chance there is no 3rd party candidate running we wouldn’t vote for your shitty candidates. Liberals are the reason government is so fucked up, they never hold their elected officials accountable. They could commit mass murder and still get elected.
No one is entitled to your votes. We’re talking about pragmatism and reality, not entitlement. The reality is that in 2024, there are only two people who will have a chance of being president, one a Democrat and the other a Republican. That’s just reality. You may not like it, but that is how things work. By voting third party, you are either spoiling the election or throwing your vote away. There is no third option there.
No, that is your reality, because you’ve experienced a lifetime of gaslighting to convince you that there are only two options. If 70 million Democrats voted third party, that third party would be first past the post thereby creating a third option. But the truth of the matter is duopoly voters are not concerned primarily about keeping the other party out, They’re more concerned about being on the winning team. And they feel obligated by peer pressure for fear of being ostracized by your peers to fall in line and vote as the echo chamber tells you to
Voting for a right wing party like the DNC does not position you on the left
It does when the other choice is an actual Nazi.
You do realize that we can disagree on the details and still be on the same side, yes?
Nazi or enabler of Nazi makes them both guilty.
By your own logic that makes you guilty
I don’t enable Nazis, I oppose both right wing fascist parties
Yep
I want more candidates like Cornel West.
I am excited to vote. Maybe another candidate can catch my attention too… please? The one party system outside of swing states is boring. Biden was a not Trump vote which is also boring. We can do better than the current voting arrangement.
Cornell West, who’s campaign is being run by Jill “lunch with Putin” Stein. I thought more of West than to be an obvious Republican plant. I don’t even care what I think about Biden, he is the incumbent president and will be the candidate. I’ll vote for him in a second because the alternative is literally the likely destruction of the United States as we know it.
This isn’t hard. The US is a two party system right now. I don’t understand why people think a third party is ever a good idea right now. Maybe third parties should run in local elections instead of this dumb spoiler candidate for the president vs
Nice liberal bullshit neocon talking points you have there. We have a 2 party system because liberals allow it. They are so comfortable with the oppressive status quo and are terrified of the idea of being inconvenienced by the progress of others. There was a reason MLK warned society about liberals. They are the sole reason nothing meaningful for the general public ever gets done.
We won’t be voting for your shitty CEO owned warhawk candidate, so if Dems lose the WH this was the work of Dem voters.
I’m living in reality, however unpleasant that may be. No “left” third party candidate will do anything but get Trump another term. I want better things for this country, but the way to get them isn’t to help elect a fascist hopeful dictator. Change needs to start at the bottom, you seem really motivated, you should go run for City council and start making the change you want to see. Right now your answer to not liking one candidate is to choose the one that probably would love to put you in a reeducation camp.
We literally have over a year until the Election and Cornel West Doesn’t have to go through all the hoops Sanders did by running in the Primaries.
It is unlikely, but it’s not impossible that West could win. Because with 3 or more candidates in the race, a winner could get by with 30%, and once West starts polling in the double digits and the possibility he could win becomes more realistic, many disaffected democrats and some republicans will switch Sides.
I’ve never seen a 3rd party candidate get so much momentum this early on, and I’ve never seen an ecombant party freak out so much about ‘spoilers’ on an off year. I think the Democratic leadership see West as a Threat for good reason. It’s not because of their, easily debunked “spoiler” narrative, it’s because West could fuck up the entire progressive plantation.
Ross Perot
Incumbent
Hope the fascist hell you wish upon us treats you well. Work on your propaganda daddy Putin is really starting to just pay anyone.
wishing for cornel west is not wishing for “fascist hell”.
Wishing? Fine you got me wish your ass off. Voting for him though is splitting the vote and putting a fascist in power. Wish all you want but if you don’t vote for the Democrat in the presidential election don’t expect me to share my bread scraps while we are in the reeducation camp!
Did they say that Ross Perot was a threat to the constitutional order? I find that unlikely, they certainly didn’t make this much noise about it the year before the election.
And yes, everyone who disagrees with you is a Putin bot – speaking of the early 90’s, do you remember see how Clinton supported Yeltsin’s coup which directly paved the way for Putin to take power in the first place? Of course, Bill couldn’t have known that, but maybe the lesson here is we shouldn’t be supported coup’s in other countries, ya know, overthrowing democracies and putting fascists in power. That’s bad right?
I totally agree, putting fascists in power is bad! So voting for a third party candidate that will split the vote of the left and bring fascism to the presidency is bad. If you really don’t understand this you are lying to yourself or arguing in bad faith. I’m sure you will reply, but I’m done.
There are more than 2 choices. Democrats just don’t have the balls to give up the entitlements they’ve come to rely on with the status quo.
Incorrect. In FPtP, the presidential race has only two options. Anything else is a vote for the candidate you don’t want.
This has been proven mathematically.
incorrect
so-called “third party” candidates win the presidency in the USA. it is a fact.
We have a 2 party system because liberals allow it.
No, we have a 2-party system because of Duverger’s Law, and liberals are the ones advocating for ranked choice voting, which fixes the situation and allows for more diversity of viable candidates.
You are conflating liberal voters with the DNC, the DNC is perfectly ok with elections and voting as they are.
The DNC is fucked and run by idiots, no argument. But voting as though you’re NOT running a FPtP election when you are actually running a FPtP election is so stupid there are no words in the English language profane enough to describe it.
The system works one way. You play the game, or you get played by the game. Voting third party for president or Senate is not how the game is played, like it or not.
You want change? Vote in your local elections. That’s where change starts. Do it enough, and get enough other people to do the same, and THEN you can change things up-ticket.
Play the game. Don’t get played. Don’t waste your vote. The other option these days is literally a fascist.
The Democratic Party is absolutely NOT advocating for ranked choice voting, and explicitly oppose things like abolishing the electoral college
The thing is that there’s never a “good time” to vote third party because we’re locked in to a forever crisis. And if you think the democrats will fix it, I think that you’re mistaken. IMO, the democrats haven’t been serious about fixing stuff basically since Johnson. Carter had a lot of good ideas, but his legacy as president is basically “that guy where gas prices started going up”; Clinton did address some problems (like the deficit), which got the republicans big mad, but failed to address a bunch of other serious issues that would have been much less painful to solve in the 90s; Obama’s basically the same way, only two wars kept him from even dreaming of a balanced budget. The democrats basically just stop making things actively worse for a little bit. Sometimes I wonder if this is what it was like to live through the demise of the Roman republic; Caesar is coming, our democracy is floundering and ineffectual, and the best that we’ve got is to shrug and vote for “not a Nazi”. Don’t get me wrong: never, ever vote for the Nazi, but come on, we have got to do better than that or things or going to keep getting a lot worse.
Black voters might either abstain or, potentially, be swayed by Republican messaging on certain key issues.
If Republicans magically sweeten up on Tim Scott, that’s going to be hella bad. We’ll be energy independent as bee’s homes melt and with a dude significantly more partial to racists than anyone that’s black should be.
That link is weird. Honeybees are not native to Arizona; they’re an introduced species from Europe and Africa. There are native bees, but they don’t build nests of easily meltable wax.
https://www.pollinator.org/pollinator.org/assets/generalFiles/AZ_bee_guide_FINAL.pdf
I have a suspicion that Tim Scott, if given full up-close magnification as a front runner, would creep people out with his unmarried, maybe-a-virgin, obvious Christian closet-case routine.
Refusing to be who you are, and instead allying yourself with the very people who hate who you really are, is some Stockholm shit by way of South Carolina.
Maybe… Maaaaaayyyyyyybeeeee the Democrats need to nominate someone who is actually worth getting excited about instead of just being not-Trump.
I’m convinced he was picked because “it was his time”
He won because they weren’t going to allow Bernie Sanders to win
Well…maybe it will be his time and we will get Harris. We can dream I guess.
Literally no one wants Harris. She’s completely un-electable.
Your dream is Harris?! Shit, no. No, no, no.
My hope is that Biden is staying in the race until the 11th hour to be the lightening rod and the dems have someone better to step in.
Of course, that would require some intestinal fortitude and a few brain cells and I don’t think the dem leadership has that.
I don’t think that was the main reason.
IMO, Biden was nominated because he was a fairly uncontroversial (by mainstream sensibilities anyway) white male candidate who also isn’t that attached to many positions that would threaten the powers that be.
Biden is a weather vane that swings in accordance to the winds. Which is all that was needed to beat a historically unpopular candidate like Trump. Thankfully, Trump is such a bad option that even Biden can be a palatable candidate.
Why this fossil didn’t bend the knee and allow another younger, more exciting candidate step up for 2024 is beyond me though. But I guess seeing the average age and mental capability of Congress, it shouldn’t be surprising. IMO, everyone over the age of 65 should be ineligible for elected office. They are at retirement age, and have no real, justifiable stake in the future. They should retire with the knowledge they won life and can live out the rest of their days in comfort and leave running the country to people who have skin in the game and the energy/mental faculties to actually play it.
Biden joining + everyone else dropping out was the last hope the establishment had to kneecap Bernie, and it fucking worked
That almost makes it sound like we live in an autocracy and not a democracy when the party picks who’s running and not the voters…
Well they have argued in court on the public record that they owe their members no expectation of democracy.
And why people still vote for them is astounding
People are structurally forced into voting for one of the two parties. It’s got very little to do with their actual merits.
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You’ve been lied to your entire life that we live in a democracy. When people tell you this isn’t a democracy this is the reason why.
Do people really believe this garbage?
The other candidates dropped out because Biden blew them out of the water in South Carolina and his campaign picked up momentum from there. A number of candidates effectively had their campaigns ended in South Carolina because it was clear they couldn’t secure the crucial black vote.
This is normal. It has happened in primaries for decades. Candidates drop out as it becomes obvious they don’t have a pathway to victory and the field narrows.
It’s not some absurd conspiracy.
Bernie’s strategy of only winning a plurality and not expanding his base was a terrible miscalculation.
Bernie’s didn’t have working class or minority support. Hence his heavy defeats in places like Michigan.
Bernie was simply not that popular with the electorate.
You’re gonna hurt their feelings.
I voted Bernie but this is absolutely true. I mean, he himself said his campaign was resting on young progressives coming out to vote for him and guess what? They did what all the people in here are doing- bitch and then NOT VOTE.
Does anyone wonder why “the establishment” doesn’t pay attention to progressive attitudes? It’s because progressives don’t fucking show up every. single. time. like other blocs. They bitch all the goddamn time but refuse to participate if their version of Santa Claus isn’t running. The truth of it is that you need to get involved and push the ideas and people you want and if they fail to get the primary nod, then you still vote to advance your goals as far as you can (ie. the moderate Democrat.) If they do get the nod (a la AOC) then you keep fielding more and more candidates. Look how they have pushed the convo further left already.
Someone best explained it as “you’re going 10 blocks north. One taxi will take you 5 blocks, the other takes you 10 blocks south of where you’re at. Do you just not take either? Or do you at least go 5 blocks north.” Also because if you don’t vote to go 5 blocks north, guess what? You’re going 10 blocks south. Great job- even further from your goal.
But no- I’m sure after years and years and years of sitting out and complaining on the sidelines, surely the Dems will come to their senses and go “hey- why don’t we run someone completely far left so maybe these people who refuse to ever come out might show up.” Sure, that’ll do it. That’s worth betting the farm on- run someone that is essentially progressive Jesus and risk alienating every voter who does show up every single time.
Why this fossil didn’t bend the knee and allow another younger, more exciting candidate step up for 2024 is beyond me though.
Probably because the geriatrics fucked two whole generations of politicians by not stepping down when they should have.
Gen X and millennials don’t have enough horses in the race with the experience necessary to run for president because they got fucked by the boomers.
We’re going to be in for an exciting ride over the next two decades as something like 40% of Congress retires or dies in office without anyone with experience available to replace them.
And this is on both sides.
Biden won because black women liked him and they actually go out and vote in the primaries, unlike the louts in this thread who are literally talking about how they won’t vote.
Biden won because black women liked him and they actually go out and vote in the primaries, unlike the louts in this thread who are literally talking about how they won’t vote.
I think that goes with him being uncontroversial. Black people in America are fairly conservative, and politically they like to go for people who can win that aren’t too radical. Biden was that candidate.
Hillary was also not-Trump. That worked out well.
Not being trump is enough for me. Sure, I’d love someone better. But I’d vote for a wooden brick if it meant america wouldn’t turn into a dictatorship.
Maybe… Maaaaaayyyyyyybeeeee the left voters need to actually show up to vote.
Now everyone is going to say they voted in a presidential election, possibly even a primary which makes them a rarity! Those aren’t what we’re talking about. The right has made it a point to vote on everything even as small as schoolboards so the only people voting in the tiny little races are the right wing rage crowd or the centrists who are being pulled to the right. Yes, the presidential vote matters, but frankly those lower down votes mean a lot more and if you watch how the Republican primaries are going, shows exactly how much power that batch that will show up has over a party.
This is some real “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” energy. If “just vote” actually worked, they’d change the system just enough so it doesn’t. Assembling establishment voltron in 2020 during the primaries is just a tiny taste of the lengths that democrats will go to in order to prevent a progressive candidate from winning.
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That’s cute that you think the system actually works.
That’s cute everyone gives up, bitches and does nothing, then complains it doesn’t work.
Here’s a free tip- get off your ass, get involved, and WORK FOR IT.
but hey, easier to bitch on lemmy and blame everyone else eh.
I even support left ideas but the left in general absolutely sucks at getting the vote out. Look at AOC and how hard she and her people worked and got elected. That’s your template but yet, not enough do that. Sorry but throwing your hands up and saying it can’t be done is a self fulfilling prophecy.
“Pull yourself up by the bootstraps.”
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Thing is, it isn’t “Just vote”, it’s being absolutely active every step of the way. Dunno what your territory is but my state we’re having an absolute route of the ultra-right wing going for every local position with the Republicans national conference funding them, the Dems have considered the entire state a lost cause.
So kinda, yea, it is a pull yourself up by the bootstraps, and anyone else who you can pull up as well because we’re sure as hell not getting help from the top, but it’s either that or sit on our fucking hands and go “whelp”. Remember, whether you like her or not, AOC primaried the supposed “2nd in command” Democrat. If you don’t like the establishment, you root it out from the bottom.
Or maybe grow up and realize that political offices and the people that fill them shouldn’t be “exciting”. Maybe the problem is that we all want someone exciting… With no regard for competence.
“I’d have a beer with him.” Who gives a fuck???
Problem is that you need to convince tens of millions of people to grow up. I think this chap here is merely suggesting we give the idiots what they want.
Candidates that will the whole party will find exciting are basically a once in a generation event, if that. This generation’s such candidate was Obama. Democrats as a party are reliant on far too big of a tent to make this a viable strategy or thought process.
A candidate that I, a far left progressive, would get excited about is a candidate that a lot of center-of-left or moderate voters would find boring. Even within wings of the party there’s not going to be lockstep excitement (go back to Dec 2019 and ask Sanders supporters how “excited” they’d be for a Warren candidacy!).
This line of argument is consistently just people pining for candidates that more closely reflect our own ideological views, not a reflection of the reality available to us. There was no such candidate in 2016 or 2020 and won’t be for 2024. I’m not going to hold my breath for 2028 either. Maybe by 2032 we might see the next Obama, someone that excites the whole party.
I gave you an upvote because I agree with the spirit of your message. However, I would like to remind you that if the DNC hadn’t literally rigged the system against Bernie Sanders in 2016 that we more than likely would not be where we are today.
There was a HUGE amount of grassroots support behind Bernie (the most in modern American history), and the Democrats burned a lot of goodwill with voters by shoe-horning Hillary in as the heir apparent. There has never been a candidate that bridged the gap the way Bernie did in my lifetime, and that one single decision did incalculable damage to the world.
I will gladly vote for Biden because I know it is a moral imperative to do so, and I am not a moron. I am also not trying to take away from his legislative victories because I believe they warrant more merit than they have received. However, I will not easily forgive or forget the chicanery, underhanded closed door attempts at king-making, and generally coercive tactics utilized by the DNC that got us here.
Huge Bernie fan. Voted for him in the primary.
But can we please stop pushing this bullshit agitprop designed to divide Democrats and progressives?
Political parties aren’t government organizations, they’re private companies. Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat, and even though he often caucuses with them, he’s been very outspoken against the Democratic party. Why would anyone ever think that the DNC would do anything to promote him over Hillary?
Even with all of that said, Bernie still came pretty damn close, and the DNC didn’t “shoe-horn” anyone in. Hillary got more votes, it’s time to get over it.
But can we please stop pushing this bullshit agitprop designed to divide Democrats and progressives?
I fail to see how you could misconstrue my comment as an attempt to divide the base? I specifically said that I would gladly vote for Biden. That does not mean that I am afraid to levy legitimate criticism against the inherently anti-democratic primary process that has continuously shown itself as a failed mechanism for protecting democracy as well as providing for the material well being of our fellow citizens.
Political parties aren’t government organizations, they’re private companies. Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat, and even though he often caucuses with them, he’s been very outspoken against the Democratic party. Why would anyone ever think that the DNC would do anything to promote him over Hillary?
Yes, this is a big problem, and at some point we are going to have to engage with this issue if we wish to move forward as a civilization. I agree that this election is not the time to break down or deconstruct this monster that has been created. I would think it should be self-evident that there are serious issues with this kind of monolithic architecture given the Republican Party has fully bent the knee while being almost fully taken over by fascist, christian-nationalist, authoritarians. If you think this is a problem that is just going to go away if we happen to preserve democracy for one more election cycle then I would implore you to listen to reason. The system that allowed this to happen is inherently a problem (amongst many others, I will grant you). Again, at some point we are going to have to wrestle that demon. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it needs to be done while we still have the opportunity to do so…
Even with all of that said, Bernie still came pretty damn close, and the DNC didn’t “shoe-horn” anyone in. Hillary got more votes, it’s time to get over it.
Agree to disagree on that one. I think the results speak for themselves. Hillary was a historically unpopular candidate who followed a historically popular candidate. It was a losing proposition, and the apathy towards voting for her is exactly how we got here. You can continue to ignore the very real Kompromat that ultimately soured the electorate against her, as well as the tactical decisions by the DNC (via her dear friend and chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz) to both prop up Trump as a spoiler candidate and ignore the populist support behind Bernie in favor of continuing their structural consolidation of power. However, I am not so naïve, and so willing to forgive or forget as I said before. That does not mean that I will bury my head in the sand, and throw fuel on the fire by disengaging with the political system therefore doing my part in guaranteeing the downfall of democracy ™. Instead, I make it a point to engage locally as well as nationally so that I am practicing what I preach by supporting candidates who are attempting to reframe these issues in a way that is more constructive for future generations.
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The support for Bernie wasn’t even just in the Democratic party. Young moderates and even a few conservatives I knew were excited about him.
Yeah, many of whom went on to vote for Donald Trump in the general election.
It’s “great” that he had so much “moderate” support, but if it had anything whatsoever to do with his actual policy views, so many of them wouldn’t have stayed home or voted Trump.
They just shifted that excitement from Bernie to Trump, because it has nothing to do with policy. They ultimately made things worse by poisoning the well against Hillary.
These aren’t the kind of people you want to court.
I disagree. If he had won the primary, those would have been voters for him instead of Trump, and I truly believe he would have won, or at least been more competitive than Hillary. People misjudged the mood of the voters badly prior to that election.
That’s exactly what I meant when I said he bridged the gap. Every single person I knew from every walk of life in my state were Bernie supporters including a surprising number of rural voters, moderates, and younger conservatives as you said in your post. I have just never seen anyone who’s messaging was so effective at bringing so many different people together over solution oriented propositions on the issues.
Nothing has ever jaded me as much politically as watching what the DNC did to Bernie. The amount of fear they had over a candidate who was able to muster legitimate support from a heterodox voter base was very telling, and it shaped my political views more than any other experience in my life.
I think the bigger problem was that he was completely honest and showed that his message was consistent with his actions and votes over his career. Being smeared and pushed aside early on (see Rachel Maddow and all of the media trying to say Hilary had too many Delegates already pledged to her to overcome before the first primary vote did incredible damage that the “she got more votes than Bernie” group cleanly ignore had a huge effect, and that he still nearly won anyway shows how big the support really was that the Democratic party actively destroyed.
Sorry, the do-something machine is broke. Best we can do is partially fossilized C-Suite moderates.
Well, what if we put RFK Jr beside them, does that make them seem any better?
Well, now you’re just being unreasonable.
Because if voters are excited, they may start voting in primaries…
Every since Obama beat Clinton 15 years ago, party leaders seem more motivated to make sure their pick wins the primary than a Democrat winning the general.
“Moderates” seem ineffictive because they’re not trying to just win, they’re trying to win by as little as possible. Like a corrupt pro athlete who’s not throwing the game, but trying to win by less than the spread.
They know the reason most people vote for moderates like Biden, is if they don’t, someone like trump would win. It’s just the party leaders would rather trade back and forth than let Dems like FDR win every election for decades.
Ever since Obama beat Clinton 15 years ago
Jesus I thought you were exaggerating and then I did the math
If you think that’s bad:
Biden’s first presidential primary was 35 years ago…
He was the expected front runner due mainly to his (at the time) exceptional public speaking but got caught plagiarizing speeches, lying about his grades in law school, and even people finding out he cheated while in law school by plagiarising papers.
But everyone forgot about all that because he spent 8 years standing next to Obama. And the only reason he got that job was to make old white people less uncomfortable voting for a Black guy.
That’s a great way to put it. Both parties are funded by dark money interests, one drives us to the right and the other keeps us in place. This is described as the ratchet effect
and millions are claiming the democrats are radicals, little do they know that the country was more progressive on certain fronts 50 years ago. So they have to resort to blaming gays and trans, because everything else about the current staye of the country is kinda right-wingy to begin with.
Hell, Republicans 50 years ago were more progressive than the Dems are today.
Or maybe you need to understand that the down ticket races are more important than the presidency?
Change in the US starts at the bottom. Not the top.
Fuck the presidency. Just vote for the candidate that isn’t going to burn the country down.
You want real change? Real progressivism? Vote progressives into local offices. Your young, progressive education board member today is your congressional rep tomorrow. Your congressional rep today is your presidential hopeful tomorrow.
Let the status quo dems toss whatever geriatric they want at the presidency and vote them in so we don’t get another trump, or worse, a president desantis or something.
Presidents don’t often push new laws anyway. You want to change the country? Help take the House and the Senate. As long as the president is the same party they’re not going to veto progressive legislation.
I was about to write something like your comment.
You want real change? Real progressivism? Vote progressives into local offices
Show up to every local election. Pay attention at the local level. Use your passion against the two party system to get third-party candidates elected to your state house.
It will only last a few more years, but in the near-ish future the problem will take care of itself. (They’re both very old)
Spoiler alert: The problem doesn’t end with some old people. Greed is eternal and has to be actively fought the entire time.
Henry Kissinger is still alive.
This shit right here. Both times I was exited for a candidate he got thrown out because the party leaders didn’t like him, first with Hillary, and then with Biden. I’m just going to continue to vote for not-trump because I know how bad it will be but I don’t want any centrist democrat almost as much as I dont want trump.
Anyone “worth getting excited about” is going to challenge the status quo too much - even nominally - for the DNC to be okay with it. They are conservative in the descriptive sense. “No-one’s standard of living will fundamentally change.”
I get that we have many problems that aren’t really being actively solved, but personally I’ve been pretty happy with this return-to-status-quo term as compared to the previous non-status-quo term… and right now the narcissistic traitor is leading the nomination polls.
You’ve been pretty happy with status quo have you? Great, love that for you. Sounds like being apathetic to the problems is working out for you specifically. I certainly wouldn’t want you to have to think about the enormous numbers of disenfranchised, poor and minority people who overwhelmingly don’t turn out to vote because they don’t see a real difference in their lives between parties and the dems aren’t doing anything to prove to them why they should care. That sounds like it wouldn’t be comfortable for you, and that’s the top priority here.
You’ve been pretty happy with status quo have you?
I’ve been pretty happy with this return-to-status-quo term as compared to the previous non-status-quo term
Context matters. If you take my words out of context, then you aren’t actually addressing what I said, you’re addressing a straw man. Or did you intend to imply that you were happier with the previous president?
And this is putting words in my mouth:
Sounds like being apathetic to the problems is working out for you specifically.
But never mind your flawed approach to debate, let’s actually take a look at what’s been done during Biden’s time in office:
The bill’s economic-relief provisions are overwhelmingly geared toward low-income and middle-class Americans, who will benefit from (among other provisions) the direct payments, the bill’s expansion of low-income tax credits, child-care subsidies, expanded health-insurance access, extension of expanded unemployment benefits, food stamps, and rental assistance programs.
“Historians, economists and engineers interviewed by The Associated Press welcomed Biden’s efforts. But they stressed that $1 trillion was not nearly enough to overcome the government’s failure for decades to maintain and upgrade the country’s infrastructure.”
The Inflation Reduction Act is the largest piece of federal legislation ever to address climate change.
Since the May 2020 onshoring of TSMC used by Under Secretary of State Keith J. Krach as a catalyst for the bill and to secure the U.S. semiconductor supply chain, a significant number of companies and a list of ecosystem suppliers have committed or made announcements for investments and jobs in the US.
“Nine months ago, President Joe Biden signed a sweeping bipartisan gun law, the most significant legislative response to gun violence in decades.[…]Several months in, the law has had some success: Stepped-up FBI background checks have blocked gun sales for 119 buyers under the age of 21, prosecutions have increased for unlicensed gun sellers and new gun trafficking penalties have been charged in at least 30 cases around the country. Millions of new dollars have flowed into mental health services for children and schools.” [reference]
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Reuniting children with their families who were separated by Trump’s border control policies
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Oh yeah, and more than $75 billion in support for Ukraine
In fact, Biden’s track record is pretty good overall. So every single problem hasn’t been solved in 2.5 years, at least there’s been progress. And did you forget that Biden inherited the country in a crisis which Trump massively bungled? You’re like a poster child for letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I could compile a similar list of their failures if I cared to. This is just a gish gallop.
Here’s one: Hillary’s campaign directly promoted the extreme far right leading directly to Trump’s victory in 2016.
In its self-described “pied piper” strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new “mainstream of the Republican Party” in order to try to increase Clinton’s chances of winning.
That’s not “good”, that’s “enabling fascism”. Absolute clown shit.
If you have to compare them to outright fascists to say they are comparatively “good”, that’s not a great look, but even then you can’t ignore when they do shit like this. You can’t hide behind their supposed good intentions either. They nearly threw 2020 by pushing Biden into everyone’s faces like a wet fart and saying, “At least it’s not a torrent of diarrhea! Vote for the wet fart please!”
I never told anyone not to vote as far left as was practical - which in the US means voting Dem. I am simply pointing out the reality that the most disenfranchised people in the US don’t even vote. Not voting isn’t a sign of privilege, thinking voting will change anything is a sign of privilege, because it means you’re in the increasingly small minority that might see any change from it.
You say I’m letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, but you actively defend mediocrity from any and all criticism because you can’t see past the false dichotomy you’ve been presented with. If I want my kids to leave the park, I don’t say, “We’re leaving now,” I say, “Do you want to leave in 5 minutes or 10?” and they respect the results, even though I invented the entire spectrum of possibility for them. The two party system has done the same thing to you.
It doesn’t matter why you’re happy with the status quo, what matters is that you are defending the status quo. That makes you functionally conservative. Just because there are other conservatives that are worse by comparison doesn’t change that.
You might want to consider that millions of people know the kinds of ideas you want put forward and just think those are bad ideas
You might want to consider that US democracy is functionally an oligarchy and doesn’t reflect the will of the people: https://archive.org/details/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc
i doubt it. i bet they think what the cia wants them to think about it, but knowledge is a justified true belief, and my bet is that they believe a lot of things about those ideas that just aren’t true.
Some of those accomplishments are worth celebrating, but:
A competent response to COVID-19
lol are you kidding? The only countries on Earth with a competent response to COVID were New Zealand, South Korea, and China.
Supporting domestic manufacturing of semiconductors
This is just tradewar bullshit with China. I work in manufacturing so I’m not against seeing more investment in my sector, but like, this isn’t about making good American jobs. It’s only about preparing for the inevitable war over Taiwan.
Also for Democrat voters. I don’t want a Bernie/Williamson/RFK candidate. I want the candidate I voted in as President in 2020
I’d rather we nominate someone who is electable, i.e., palatable to centrists, even if they’re not as exciting as someone who would move the Overton window leftwards.
What if is instead of focusing on a vanishingly small number of centrist swing voters, you focused on the 35% of non-voters by improving their material conditions?
The majority of non-voters believe there is no material difference between candidates. Improving candidates is not going to fix that. The problem is lower level civic engagement rather than “Pick a more leftist candidate.”
Because those people just don’t show up to vote.
Maybe all the people bitching need to show up EVERY ELECTION and then they’ll start getting good candidates. But time and again progressives and everyone else just decide to not vote so therefore don’t even come close to getting what they want. Vote in every election for even dog catcher like it’s your religion and maybe you’ll start seeing change.
Psh…no. That would never work. /s
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I have a hard time believing someone who throws both the “printed too much money” and “backed down on student loans” talking points at the wall is a real person with a coherent political ideology.
Yeah, I hate how Biden printed too much money with those COVID stimulus payments and PPP bailouts.
Wait…
bidens hands were tied in regards to the Afghanistan withdrawal. trump fucked that up and every president since 2001 was more responsible than biden.
Caused inflation? This is the most brain dead take I’ve heard so far. How are people this dense? This has to be a bot.
How did he back down on student loan forgiveness? Biden administration is still pushing and working on that issue.
What do you think the President can do to “fix our broken system riddled with corruption” while also fighting a very real threat to the end of democracy? That is really the job of Congress, and Biden has said many times that he’ll sign whatever the Dems send him. But they don’t have the votes there and everything is even more chaotic, but at least blame the right people.
I’ll preface this with saying I am a Bernie supporter who (unenthusiastically) voted for Hillary and Biden in 16/20 respectively, and I’ll probably vote for Biden again because we live in hell world. My biggest issue with Biden and student loans is how long it took to implement an obviously shaky plan. Do it earlier on and it doesn’t look like you are using it to string along voters for 2024. Is that the actual reason behind why it took so long for the executive order/whatever the new attempt to get going? No idea, but it sure does feel that way. Signed, a bummed out lefty.
Young black guy here (mid 20s), I’ll be voting for Biden. Recently changed my party affiliation from Independent to Democrat.
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That’s because democracy was burnt to the ground awhile ago and all that’s left are corporate shills.
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When JFK was murdered and we dropped off from the gold standard.
Lmao the fuckin gold standard.
I wanna wondering when we’d get these weird-ass takes on this site
I’m dumb, care to explain why the gold standard is a wild take?
Gold standard at this point in time would be deflationary (if the population is growing faster than new gold is being mined, at least). Deflation incentivizes money hoarding, and disincentivizes loans and investments. Capitalism basically breaks down during times of deflation (investments dry up, people stop spending money on things they don’t absolutely need, companies lay off or go out of business, unemployment rises).
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Consider, it might not be the candidate, it might be the political economy.
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Oh look - election season has officially kicked off with the DNC’s first attempt at trying to guilt trip people into voting for their shitty candidate.
Expect many MANY more of these in the months to come.
It really takes a special kind of scumbag to decide that the proper strategy is to nominate a dismally corrupt and/or incompetent sack of shit then try to guilt trip people into voting for them and blame the voters if they lose, when they could just nominate a decent candidate and people would willingly and even eagerly vote for them and they’d win easily.
I sometimes wonder what it’s like to be that entirely devoid of principles or integrity.
I imagine it involves a lot of alcohol.
I’m really sick of people on the left playing this game. In politics, the perfect is often the enemy of the good. Biden is the candidate because he’s the incumbent and has the best chance of winning. Full stop. He’s not a shitty candidate even if he isn’t your perfect candidate.
Nobody needs to initiate any type of guilt trip. We’ve all been through 4 years of Trump. We currently are (finally) starting to see the indictments that wrought.
We have seen what DeSantis has done to Florida. Where, just today, they effectively outlawed AP Psychology for high school students. State-level brain drain, and trans genocide.
There’s no option here and you’re a piece of shit if you don’t vote, or if you vote for the party that is literally an organized crime syndicate at this point, with a candidate who literally (and I mean like literally literally) should be in prison right now.
If you still need to be guilt tripped in order to make the right choice, then it sounds like you’re kind of a piece of shit.
We saw all that because democrats thought they knew best and pushed hillary as the nominee in 2016. A candidate so shitty that she lost against trump of all people. Many important lessons that democrats refuse to learn – likely intentionally. But yeah, shame voters for not voting the way you want them to instead of, you know, giving them something worth voting for. Truly a democracy.
Yes, we live in a fundamentally broken country. What are you going to do about it? Do you think abstaining from voting is gonna help? Or maybe you’ll really stick it to them with a “protest vote”?
OR, are you going to vote for people (down ballot too, something Bernie Bros who gave up on the DNC didn’t seem to care about after they found out he lost) that aren’t actively promoting LGBTQ genocide, aren’t gutting our public education, aren’t refusing to accept climate change is real, and who aren’t pushing their respective states (and now nation) over a precipice to literal fascism? What do you think happens after that? Leftist thought leaders will magically lead us to glorious revolution? I assume after we un-execute them, of course.
The only way to ever get where you want to go is through gradual change. Moving the Overton window (something that right has gotten figured out) more and more left with each local, state, and federal election, until candidates that more closely match your values are actually viable (because of a sane Overton window).
That doesn’t happen overnight, unless you’re advocating for literal revolution, and more often than not that doesn’t really achieve the original stated goals. And a bunch of dead people for literally nothing.
I vote every time and for democrats down the entire ballot every single time. I’m just not stupid enough to think that’ll change anything and I’m not stupid enough to think you can browbeat people into voting the way you want “because the other guy is worse”. Democrats need to do better, but they won’t because they’re not sincere.
Wait, Black people won’t vote for a cognitively disabled old fart who’s politics are out of touch with the needs of a Black community and catered to loony white leftists? Fuck me, I’m surprised.
I don’t cross picket lines, why would I vote for a union buster? Balk all you want but that’s my hard line. Already listed out the local reps I can’t vote for because of the same reason. Y’all can bend your beliefs however you want but I told them this was my hard line and they crossed it. Fuck them.
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Loyal democrat, I will happily vote for Joe Biden.
The Democrats lost me when than ran Hillary over Bernie.
We will never get a progressive with the two party system. We are just voting hard R vs centrist R at this point.
K thx. 🤷♀️
Yup, better give up! /s
I was disappointed too, but there’s only one party fighting for what I value, so they get my vote.
I don’t think the Greens will win though.
Fuck the greens. Their leadership takes gop cash to help split the left vote.
You can’t vote for moon shot candidates in a first past the post election system. All that ever does is help the candidate you don’t want.
If you want to see change, you have to volunteer. Change starts at the bottom. Not at the top.
They also almost never run candidates for lower office. How about trying for mayor before president, Green Party?
i don’t want either the democrat or the republican candidate, so i’ll be voting green. at least i plan to. i suppose i could be swayed if one of the parties nominated someone who aligned with jill stein/cornel west.
Then you’re voting authoritarian.
Don’t fool yourself. The math behind FPtP voting doesn’t end any other way if you vote 3rd party.
i only vote for people I want to win. get your candidate to say what I like, and you will get my vote
I just wrote the first party other than the dems or reps that I could think of, because I know that neither the former or latter fight for what their voters want.
Well, parties don’t fight for what you want. They’re too big.
Representatives fight for you. That’s literally their job.
I have a congressional rep for the district I live in. I make sure to attend one town hall every year to make myself heard and let him know what I want him to fight for.
And even then, he has to take the wants and needs of roughly 130,000 people into account.
And you actually believe what you’re saying?
Do you know how they finance their campaigns? Do you think that your concerns outweigh one of the campaign donations they get? If you multiply your concerns by 130k it still won’t match a single donation from a corporate donor in their interest.
And when they do, we get stuff like former green party Sinema killing the first climate change bill that could pass in a generation.
Sorry, my reply was just a quick reaction trying to highlight that neither dems nor reps fight for their voters.
Bernie voters were statistically unreliable at the polls. He lost that one and isn’t running this cycle, so what is the relevance?
Since his voters are statistically not worth pursuing, when do they stop getting blamed for Clinton losing?
thank you
When the polls were skewed in hillarys favor they would seem unreliable
I’m honestly surprised that this is such a popular take. You know how your country works right? How the Supreme Court works?
If nothing else, is your Ideological purity worth 4 years of conservative (read batshit crazy fundies) appointments to the federal bench?
From where I’m standing, outside your political system, it seems like a colossally stupid argument. Unless of course you are agitating for the fundies.
Just go vote Democrat. Then lie about it to your friends if you have to, and hope they do the same.
Politics are a bus stop. They don’t get you exactly to where you want to go but they’ll get you close. I was very bummed about the Bernie situation and wish we had an actual left party but I’ll vote Democrat.
One bus is heading downhill with the accelerator floored. The other bus is facing uphill and revving its engine like mad, but is coasting downhill in neutral.
Those of us walking uphill get to gripe.
In general, yes.
But especially now, refusing to vote strategically when the other major party nominee is a known authoritarian that already (among other things) tried to violently overthrow the constitutional order, seems just insane to me.
You don’t have too put up lawn signs or phone bank or whatever. Just hold your nose and tick the box of the major party candidate guy that is not an active threat democracy.
tick the box of the major party candidate guy that is not an active threat democracy.
i don’t think there’s going to be one.
Oh come off it.
oh, you think biden’s pentagon is spreading democracy in Africa?
Hillary beat Bernie by 3 million votes
BoTh SiDES!1!1!1!
