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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/20749204
Another positive step in the right direction for an organization rife with brokenness. There’s a lot I don’t like about the organization, but this is something a love–a scouting organization open to young women and the lgbtq community. The next step is being inclusive of nonreligious agnostic and atheist youth and leaders. As well as ending the cultural appropriation of Native American peoples.
May this organization continue to build up youth, never allow further violence against youth, and make amends for all the wrongs. There’s a lot of good that comes out of organizations like this and I won’t discount it even though it’s riddled with a dark history.
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Ah the blackwater method
and yet my trans brother still isn’t allowed to join
It’s a risk with the autonomous Troop structure. You agree to follow BSA guidelines, but there’s a huge gap for individual Troop choice. Technically, atheists aren’t allowed in Scouts, but most Troops ignore that requirement.
Afaik, BSA has accepted trans boys since 2017.
The organization as a whole, yes. But some individual troops are still run by bigots that haven’t gotten the message yet.
K
I’d say fight it, because it can be won. Then again, I’d rather my child be a part of a troop that’s welcoming and safe. It’s hard to be a trailblazer.
There’s a lot of reasons to shop around with different troops. This reason is particularly important.
As we know though, trans youth have it particularly bad from every direction right now. 😖
The most effective (though slightly petty) move would be to fight it until they are forced to accept you and then leave immediately.
why would you fight for someone that hates you? you don’t want to be in that group anyway.
Yeah, if you are looking for a troop for your kid, avoid the Mormon ones. And the boring ones who don’t go anywhere fun. And the “tough” ones with strict parents.
Remember that you can always just go to another one. And when you first get there, they will be on their best behavior. So if you don’t like what you see at the first meeting it will probably get worse.
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yes
I would absolutely report it. They can more than likely lose their affiliation entirely for not following rules
Can’t wait for the “the scouts are failing due to being woke” crowd instead of the real reason, all the sexual abuse cases.
I mean I had, and have met plenty of others who also had, the opposite experience.
I say this as a pretty vanilla person, not gay, not trans… not even vegetarian.
The Boy Scouts absolutely failed me as child interested in the outdoors because the troop was led by a bunch of adult men pretending their goal was to train a small military unit out of a Lutheran church on Thursdays.
I have met so many Eagle Scouts who were encouraged and taught outdoor skills… actually taught survival skills! Not verbally threatened by some 55 year old polish dude suffering narcissistic injuries…
not gay, not trans… not even vegetarian.
how unfortunate
Ha right? Call me boring… but that was not the scoutmaster’s problem.
They’ve been letting girls join for a while, but that won’t stop the reactionary crowd from freaking out. Also, they put a huge emphasis these days on preventing bad touch, for obvious reasons.
They have but the stigma sticks. For good reasons.
Good on them for cutting down on the pedophilia, it’s always hard to kick a habit
Will the Girl Scouts do the same thing?
They are different organizations with different purposes and missions. Throughout all the changes within the boy scouts, I have yet to hear of any changes within the girl scouts.
Probably not. they are to busy getting little girls to sell cookies for their own corporate profit.
The sad part about this is that The Girl Scouts has always been an amazing organization that’s done great things for girls and society, but didn’t get all of the favorable treatment that the boys did from the government. Now their playing field is going to be even more unlevel.
Girl scouts is boring and doesn’t cater to what modern girls want to do. Most girls drop out after “Brownies”. It may be better for girls that don’t want to be around boys, but it’s clearly not as popular.
Also, the GSA is pretty open about the fact that it’s just a thinly-veiled business program anymore. They exist to sell cookies and merch and that’s about it - anything that’s actually FURTHER than that is at the discretion of the troop, but not encourages.
Sounds like they should change their name and let boys in.
They get plenty of favorable treatment anywhere they bring those cookies boiiii!
Girls were welcomed in six years ago. The first group of Girl “Eagle Scouts” came about in 2021.
Girl Scouts is an amazing organization and there are some things they do that I prefer to Boy Scouts (like no religious requirement). But the mission is very different. Now there are multiple organizations that can serve girls.
ben shaprios infamous quip is fucking dead.
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Your “devil’s advocate” is a moron that can safely be told to fuck off. “Cis white males” aren’t losing shit – it’s the same damn program it’s always been except it’s open to all kids now … and hopefully has far fewer kids getting molested by the adult leaders
cis white male
I would love to hear your “devil’s advocate” explain how are the white kids are being hurt by this change.
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Too bad.
When you’re accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression.
Yes, will the injustices ever stop? Here’s a great article about it.
Why “Scouting America” and not “Scouts of America” without the gender prefix? 🤨
they might not have been able to work that out with the Girl Scouts of America, which is a separate organization
Why “Scouting America” and not “Scouts of America” without the gender prefix?
I’d guess it’s because “Girl Scouts” still exists so if the BSA renamed to “Scouts of America” it would look like they were in charge of everything. That would surely confuse the hell out of people, piss off the Girl Scouts and up creating a serious fuss.
If it was supposed to be gender neutral then why have separate girl scouts anymore
They’re separate organisations. From what I remember, Boy Scouts/Scouting America has been under fire for some time for their lack of inclusion, which they’ve been changing. Meanwhile Girl Scouts is and has always been vocally against anyone but girls joining the org. Could be different now though.
They’re separate organisations.
No I know, I was more thinking of why have two of them anymore, they could just merge. I know in Finland we used to have separate boy scouts and girl scouts organizations but ages ago they merged into one top level scouting organization.
Meanwhile Girl Scouts is and has always been vocally against anyone but girls joining the org.
Uh oh. I guess there’s some work to be done there.
Sorry for my misunderstanding. The second part as you point out is the main reason I think they won’t though. I don’t like the Girl Scout’s stance but I can empathise with it, as I believe it comes from the effort they had to go to to get girls access to a scouts organisation in the first place. To allow boys in now feels like a loss to them after so many years of being denied access to Boy Scouts. Mixed into that is all the politics around single-sex spaces etc etc
But if the objective was gender inclusion then excluding boys now would just feel like they’re doing it out of spite. Unless they specifically want gender exclusion, just into another direction, which would be oof.
Should just have one organization where everyone is welcome imo
I completely agree, and yeah it does kind of seem like there is some spite in it. Very political, sadly.
Imagine if they merged
We’d be getting the cookies and the popcorn buckets from the same smarmy little shit who set their table up in front of a dispensary like we don’t know they know exactly what they’re doing.
Who eats the popcorn?
Just give me the cookies.
Bought the popcorn and it was poor quality. At least the cookies taste good
I’d say this explanation is as good. The posted article mentions girl scouts at one time suing the boy scouts.
Well there are several forms of scouting housed within the former “BSA”, now Scouting America?
Varsity scouts, Venture scouts, (formerly) Explorer scouts, and even Sea scouts.
The Scouts formerly know as Boy Scouts of America
In other news, sexual abuse has changed its name to “The Boy Scouts of America.”
So they are opening the predator buffet to new items? The Scouts is now the Golden Corral of molestation.
the downvotes remind me of why the clergy is still held in high esteem even though they’ve literally diddled so many children that they’ve had to file bankruptcy in multiple countries to protect themselves from the staggering number of law suites coming from those abused children who have grown into damaged adults.
probably a lot of Drake fans IYKYK
While we’re throwing out scouting and the clergy because they have had abusers within their ranks, let us also throw out baseball, soccer, football, wrestling, theater, choir, band, cheerleading, chess club… Hell, you’re going to have to cancel school in general, what with all the teachers raping their students.
This is good. Scouting (in developed countries) in Europe is one and same for boys, nonbinaries and girls, mainly non-theistic (apart from the obvious theistic groups) and focused on making sure health, hygiene, happiness and life skills are taught and practiced. Girls, nonbinaries and boys coexist, do the same tasks, chores and sleep in the same tents.
This post is a cesspool of hateful comments from anti-establishment people with zero actual experience with scouting. Scouts is a wonderful organization, full of volunteers who give children - especially disadvantaged children - knowledge, life experience, and a general sense of accomplishment and competence. My involvement with scouting was the best thing about my entire childhood.
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There is a lot great about this article, but it’s hard to keep completely positive in light of the many horrific abuses that have taken place within the Scouts. Youth organizations and religious organizations are highly susceptible to this. Scouting America has gone to great lengths to reform and protect youth today, but the stain will be there for a long time especially since abuse still happens (this just reported on days ago).
To be frank, it’s a tense thing for me. Scouts was great for me in my youth and today as I’m involved with my children. However, I’m always on guard and paying attention. Whether it’s scouts or some other youth organization, they are vulnerable. I teach my kids to pay attention and remain ever vigilant. As great as such organisations can be, they are very very susceptible to predators.
New policies do as much as they can to protect the kids at least. Not an excuse for the past, but something.
Scouting has a dark history, but I also made lifelong friendships and learned a lot of cool stuff through Scouting. I only learned of the history more recently… No abuse locally or in any of the troops we associated with when I was younger.
There is a risk of abuse in life. Most children are abused by family or family friends. Unfortunately we can’t stop all of the monsters, but at least Scouts tries, and has some of the most proactive child protection policies in the country. I had abusive teachers when I was a kid that physically assaulted me, that doesn’t mean we condemn all elementary schools. School was still a vibrant part of my childhood. I’m not trying to diminish the suffering of children who suffered abuse in a place that was supposed to provide them safety, but we don’t need to bring it up literally every single time scouting is mentioned. Most of the people on this comment chain are doing it because they get some sort of sadistic pleasure from diminishing the merits of helpful institutions like this, not because they have any sort of real concern for the children.
Just to be clear, the Boy Scouts actively protected abusers to protect their reputation, and went out of their way to NOT PREVENT ABUSERS FROM JUST BECOMING SCOUT MASTERS AGAIN SOMEWHERE ELSE.
This wasn’t just a ‘bad luck’ sort of thing, the Boy Scouts were actively HELPING abusers because they didn’t want the bad publicity.
Im just glad its no longer Scouting BSA its like saying ATM machine and reads like “Scouting Boy Scouts of America”
The scoutingest scout scouts who ever scoutingly scouted.
Yeah, that always seemed like a transitional name to me. The BSA branding has been so prominent historically, they kinda had to keep it for a while.
So does the girl scouts have to accept boys now? Is there gonna be a merger? When they go camping, do they separate the girls and boys? Also why? This is probably good for parents who have multiple kids so they can bring them all to the same place.
They’re two completely separate organizations. The girl scouts can do what they want.
It’d be great if humanity would get better at collectively making group decisions and deciding on leadership. Turns out that we all hop on the Nash equilibrium of pursuing individual desires instead.
If they are both gender neutral then it seems a bit silly to have two
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Are they intending to stay that way?
Why do some people get so upset if women try to exclude men?
Women can join the misogynist club but men aren’t allowed to join the misanderist club. Because all men are sexual deviants or something.
Because men aren’t allowed to exclude women. Just wanna let you all know how that feels.
Ask yourself why some people get so upset if men try to exclude women. The answer is mostly the same.
I thought we weren’t supposed to do stuff like that anymore
Right. Why can’t they all love sexism?
Oh, also, the Boy Scouts have been letting in girls for a while now. I would assume they get separate tents but I don’t actually know because I’m not actually involved with the organization. But, girl members have been fairly common and this is really just a name change.
More accurate is more better.
Not only separate tents, but the boys’ tents are grouped together and girl tents are grouped together with the adult tents in between those two groups. There also must be at least 1 adult of each sex.
The Girl Scouts started accepting boys years beforethe boy scouts started accepting girls around106 years ago.They had boys and girls in different tents to prevent them from having sex. I’m not sure how they deal with lgbt scouts.
Edit: Boys Scouts first allowed girls into Venturing, a program for those 14-21st birthday. Girls were allowed into Boy Scout troops and in Cub Scouts in 2018.
Cis boys aren’t allowed in Girl Scouts.
The Girl Scouts absolutely do not accept cis boys.
I thought I had remembered them allowing some boys. I know of a male girl scout leader.
I’ll edit that part.
They accept trans boys, trans girls, and nonbinay kids. So they do allow some boys. Just not cis boys.
I think they allow male leaders because it’s hard to get people to volunteer for that position without even limiting to one gender.
In what universe are prepubescent children having sex?
The Lemmy universe.
Boy Scouts can join a troop at 10 and age out at 18. It’s not uncommon for high schoolers to begin experimenting sexually.
Further there’s also a branch of Boy Scouts called Venturing that is co-ed where participants age out at 21.
Why would they have sex?
Teenagers are full of hormones through puberty and many begin experimenting. Boy Scouts don’t age out until they are 18.
Oh shit, I imagined it as a 14 and under kind of thing.
Cub Scouts is age 5-10 Boy Scouts age 10-18th birthday Venturing 14-21st birthday
I’ve never even heard of that last one!
I was a heckin cub scout and totally forgot it was a thing.
