It’s very obvious that amerikkka is circling the drain now, but clearly this didn’t just happen in a vacuum. It must’ve started crumbling at some point… but when?

Some people might say it started after 9/11, others might say it goes back to the Raegan administration. A few might even say it started after losing the Vietnam War, or when they went off the gold standard. Or maybe even earlier…

What do you think? three-heads-thinking

  • RION [she/her]
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    101 year ago

    Begining in the 70s, the switch from a production based economy that drove consumption to a finance based economy that drove consumption. Then sealing the deal with industrial offshoring in the 80s and especially 90s.

  • Maoo [none/use name]
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    141 year ago

    The US is threatening to decline, just showing a few cracks in the armor. It isn’t quite there yet. While American life is getting worse, that has never been the measure of American Empire. It is domination and contol. Most countries still do whatever the US pressures them to do, imperialism is alive and well, its dog in the Middle East hasn’t been crushed despite doing genocide. The US is in the process of cannibalizing the EU and they’re gladly handing themselves over.

    There is still a struggle against the empire and we must support it.

    • JayTreeman [none/use name]
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      121 year ago

      BRICS is a pretty big removed in the armor. The next few years as they establish themselves is going to be interesting

        • FunkyStuff [he/him]
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          61 year ago

          Thing is, if you make them context dependent to handle common cases like Sremovedhorpe you open the door to just abusing the filter. So there’s definitely a balance point between too sensitive and too forgiving.

        • BigHaas [he/him]
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          111 year ago

          I kinda think they’re hilarious and have considered manually typing removed as a bit but it always seems problematic

  • someone [comrade/them, they/them]
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    211 year ago

    I’d argue it never did. This is what it was intended to be. This is what its original founders wanted. A country where white wealthy slave-owners could reap the benefits of a country’s productive power without having to maintain any sort of social contract with those not of their class.

    • CindyTheSkull [she/her, comrade/them]
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      81 year ago

      I mean, that is their dream, that is indeed the ultimate capitalist goal that you’re right they have largely achieved. But an important aspect of that capitalist dream world would be to do that in perpetuity, with all this kept in a stable balance they forever control from the top. That is where the dream can never be truly realized. They do have to struggle to maintain it, and while they have been doing an astoundingly good job of that for the most part (despite how well all of us here can see the gaping contradictions, we also rightly lament how communists are an insignificant minority in the west/core and how captured by capital nearly every institution is), that struggle still demands they have to keep inventing increasingly complex and stratified apparatus to keep their contradiction-riddled structure of exploitation afloat.

      And that’s what we’re really talking about here. At what point does that corrosion from the countless contradictions become so extensive that maintenance of the structure becomes a truly lost cause? Where is the point where the downward slide back out of their capitalist dreamworld (the proletarian nightmare) accelerate into the certainty of waking up from it? The answer is necessarily subjective, since we can all pin different moments where we think this has or will happen. But it is an inevitability.

  • supafuzz [comrade/them]
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    411 year ago

    1970s oil crisis and stagflation

    That was the point where the capitalists said “we have a problem, and the solution from now on is going to be to strip the copper out of the walls”

    • context [fae/faer, fae/faer]
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      221 year ago

      cap-think but we don’t want it to look like we’re just stripping the copper out of the walls, so we’ll invent ever more abstract financial instruments to cover for ourselves and congratulate ourselves for our ingenuity the entire time

  • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
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    17
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    1 year ago

    I don’t have an exact date, but I was thinking about American decline in my lifetime earlier this week, and thought up a short list of things that have contributed to it in the last ~30+ years. This isn’t extensive or anything, but it’s some of the things I think have contributed the most.

    • Collapse of the USSR, shock therapy neoliberalism in Russia and interfering with the 1996 elections (means Putin is put in charge, since he was Yeltsin’s hand picked successor)

    • Clinton’s presidency and NAFTA, leading to even further deindustralization than during Carter’s and Reagan’s presidencies

    • NATO bombing of Serbia

    • Repealing the Glass-Steagall Act, most people don’t realize the significance of this, but it directly led to the 2008 crisis. IMO, if you really want to point to a year when American decline started, it’d be 1999 when this happened, the ultimate act of 90s neoliberal hubris

    • Dot-com bubble bursting, which is another overlooked event IMO, but another sign that neoliberal capitalism and the notion that the market can regulate itself was a fairy tale

    • Election of George W. Bush, which was of course a farce, essentially a coup with disrupted recounts in Florida (Brooks Brothers riot) that led to the Supreme Court handing the presidency to Bush, nominally to avoid hurting his feefees

    • 9/11 and the immediate aftermath, rounding up Muslims, passing the Patriot Act among the sus anthrax letters and whatnot. The US had immense amounts of global goodwill, which they proceeded to quickly squander. 2001, another date you could pin American decline to and you’d get no objection from me. Note to Israeli leaders post October 7th: <- you are here

    • The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, the first of which was excused due to 9/11 and the notion that Bin Laden had to be caught (the Taliban were in fact willing to hand over Bin Laden as long as it was to a neutral country, so there was no need to start a war). The Iraq War was such an unnecessary thing that even the US’ NATO allies like France and Germany were not willing to participate in it, and IMO 2003 would be another good date you could point at as the start of the decline

    • The 2008 crisis, which was 100% caused by the US finance sector (see the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act above). Not only that, but newly elected president Obama said he’d bail out the banks and any other company he thought were “too big to fail”, nevermind the fact that the fucking investment banks caused this whole crisis and now they’d be getting away with everything

    • The NATO bombing of Libya, which came after Gaddafi handed over his nukes and expected to be made a member of the rules based international order. Not only did this led to Hilldawg’s “We came, we saw, he died” thing, but Putin reportedly viewed the footage of Gaddafi’s death with disgust, which directly leads us to…

    • The Ukraine coup with the help of neo-Nazis. Of course this can be directly traced to the current war in Ukraine, since Russia considered Ukraine joining NATO unacceptable. They didn’t like the Baltics and the like joining, but it was always clear that Ukraine becoming a member was just that one step too far. The post-coup government amended the constitution in 2019 to include joining NATO, and here we are now…

    Yeah, this is already a super long post and doesn’t include things like Syria which I honestly don’t know that much about (hopefully someone else will fill in those gaps), but I’d say the start of the decline was either 1999 or 2001.

  • Dolores [love/loves]
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    231 year ago

    1492 downhill ever since

    if you want to talk living standards its always been phenomenally unequally distributed, but the 70s is when the small amount of progress toward equality started being reversed.

    • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
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      141 year ago

      1492 downhill ever since

      the objectively correct answer. the genocide on turtle island started then and it’s been worse than that for one reason or another globally since.

  • copandballtorture [ey/em]
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    231 year ago

    Manufacturing has been in decline for a long time. NAFTA was one of the last nails in that coffin. But the tech boom of the 90s+ injected a few decades of growth and international status. I’ll put my “point of no return” collapse date at Y2K

    • nohaybanda [he/him]
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      151 year ago

      I feel like the subprime mortgage crisis broke something deeper. I can’t put my finger on it, but it seems like this is the point when political power completely capitulated to finance capitalism.

      • zed_proclaimer [he/him]
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        131 year ago

        In 2020 they literally increased the money supply by like 20% by printing trillions of dollars and just handed it out to corporations to do stock buybacks. It certainly was completely captured by that point

        • Wheaties [she/her]
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          91 year ago

          There was also the bailout of Silicon Valley Bank last year. It was a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it headline, but man. Like Lehman Brothers, but the Federal Bank ahem Reserve stepped in before the bankruptcy actually hit the stock markets.

        • nohaybanda [he/him]
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          61 year ago

          Yeah the response to the 2020 crisis was unsurprising. That war had already been fought and lost (or won, if you’re a finance ghoul)

  • Zodiark [he/him]
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    61 year ago

    In 2009, by decree of the true ruler of the world, Henri Albert Gabriel Félix Marie Guillaume.

  • duderium [he/him]
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    131 year ago

    Dialectically speaking, it would have been 1776, due to the interpenetration of opposites. Every beginning also contains, in microscopic form, its own end 🤓

  • Yllych [any]
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    361 year ago

    The early 1970s marks a downturn of the rate of profit which the US has not been able to escape, only delay through a neoliberal turn, increasing financialisation etc. by and large I feel that the rise and fall of a hegemon can’t be overly simplified but if you’re gonna go by a quick and dirty rule I think that one suffices.

      • Yllych [any]
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        41 year ago

        I see people here mentioning a lot of good, specific points regarding American decline like the events of 2008 and I would just add to that, that events like those are ultimately downstream of capital’s attempts to restore profitability

    • DyingOfDeBordom [none/use name]
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      91 year ago

      i was going to say the 70s stagflation nonsense leading towards the hollowing out and outsourcing of american manufacturing but idk I’m ignorant

      • Wheaties [she/her]
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        171 year ago

        Part of the reason stag-flation “wasn’t supposed to happen” was because it was expected the government would step in and prevent it. Nixon froze grocery prices in response. Can you imagine a president doing that today? Since then, all the blank-check intervention has been on behalf of capitalists, of people who own things for their living.

        • DyingOfDeBordom [none/use name]
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          101 year ago

          yeah I know, with the minor exception of emergency covid shit (i.e. the trump bux and enhanced unemployment) the working class has had fucking nothing for decades

  • autism_2 [any, it/its]
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    11 year ago

    artificial-intelligence speech-side-l-1 No part of the North American Plate is being subducted, except for a small section comprising part of the Puerto Rico Trench. speech-side-l-2