Its literally impossible for democrats to not spread disinformation about leftists by claiming anyone who doesn’t vote Biden is actively advocating for not voting. Hell I see a bunch of it in this comment section.
Democrats will claim they aren’t fascist but they can’t help but check off all the bullet points.
Apart from liking or liking, do you vote against trump?
Liberal democracy has to win every election, fascism only has to win one. Good job if you win in 2024, now do it again every 4 years
We have been doing it for over 200 years now though
Ehhhh, things are looking a little dicey…
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Good gets lazy. It has too much hope in others also being good.
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Also remember that we don’t actually vote for the president. That’s the job of the electoral college. They just want to see if we all guessed it right.
Hey guess who is the next person to be the president? C’mon tell us! I’m going to guess Biden…I’m going to guess Trump! You are both wrong! The next president is this Gala Apple 🍎 with a worm inside!
Thanks electoral college! Without you. How could we ever know who You want to rule over us all like a king?
Wait, I thought the “point of a system is what it does”…
If your choices lead to a trump presidency I don’t see how your intent matters at all 🤷
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All you liberals have brain worms.
Says the person who doesn’t understand how the US election system works.
It’s unfortunately a bipartisan system with the shitty electoral system that needs reformation. It’s barely a democracy, but there is a clear option out of the two, and for now, ensuring Trump is not president again is a step in a better direction.
Wrong. Vote RFK.
🤢 I’d rather vote green
I don’t like the green party, they basically go away except for a publicity campaign once every 4 years.
PSL is constantly putting in work and has been at nearly every student protest.
Unfortunately, that would effectively be a vote for Trump.
What are you smoking
Wrong again. Your admitting we dont live in a democracy if thats the case. we dont live in a democracy the only solution is to oust the government.
I believe it’s such a broken democracy that it doesn’t qualify as a proper democracy.
So, tell me, how does third party voting or abstaining from voting help oust the government?
No, they’re right but we live in a flawed democracy.
I think in my country that’s called “Stemmespild”
which basically means wasted-vote.
if a political party wants to enter the parliament, they gotta get at least 2% of the votes. so if you vote for one of the very unpopular parties and they only get ~1.5% you’ve effectively wasted your vote completely (This is how it works in my country - of course things are different in the US)
Things are even worse in the US. For president you need to get a plurality of the votes (more than any other candidate) nationally (let’s ignore the EC for now) which means that any vote not for the two candidates who stand a chance is wasted.
But also in their congressional elections they set up the system so to get in you have to get a plurality in some district where only one representative will be sent each time (FPTP). So even if your party has 15% nationally, unless they can win a plurality in some districts, they won’t get any representation.
Thats why 3rd parties are pure vote wasters in presidential elections and in Congress you only have a handful of independent reps who somehow win their districts without party backing.
Cobtrast that with most of Europe (including Denmark(?)) where you have proportional voting for a parliament and then parliament forms a government. You can vote for your green party and while they might not get to be Prime Minister, they might be needed for the parliamentary majority to form a government and get the environment ministry. Win! Or they might just exert slight pressure in parliament directly, which is where laws are made. Not a loss!
The poor 'Mericans, meanwhile, are screwed. The only reasonable choice is between the two major parties at the elections. To turn that oil tanker they have to get involved in those parties and try to affect which candidates are put forth and then the party even skips that step entirely if they happened to have won the last presidential elections.
lol, you’re so free in the freedom land that you taking an un-awful option from the trainwreck gets you hate from the cult on both sides of the mainstream political parties.
Good on you for having a conscience.
Muricah!!!
Yeah, I don’t know why I try with these liberal, blue wave fanatics. They just love genocide so much.
Why drive to a polling location to throw your vote away then?
1984
You are not in Europe my friend. Why do Americans not even understand their own voting system.
The Green Party is a thing in America.
Republican and Democrat are the two biggest parties by a large margin, but a few other smaller parties exist. Plus, some people run as an Independent. They’re not affiliated with any party at all.
Edit: I never meant to imply the other parties had any chance at winning an election in a meaningful way, which is what these replies seem to think I was saying. (They don’t have a chance, honestly.) But other parties do exist, including a party in which you can “vote green”. That is all I’m saying.
I love how you exactly proved their point without realising. Please go look up the spoiler effect with first-past-the-post voting.
Then we can use third party candidates to determine who the power actually goes to. At the end of the day. America is so bipolar split tlboth parties are now completely at the mercy of anyone who can garner 10% support. RFK Jr at this point can literally be the decider or who becomes president and who doesn’t. Maybe we can use that as a tool of power to force the 2 parties to open the voting system up or have their power cockblocked from them every election cycle.
No, this is not how it works. Please look up the spoiler effect.
I can’t vote because I don’t live there, but am in the imperial core of countries, so it would be very nice to not have fascists in charge, considering we literally have prosecuted whistleblowers reporting on warcrimes at the behest of the US government. We’re your little bitches whether we like it or not.
Y’all really do need to be hyper-focused on pushing for sweeping electoral reform, for sure.
In the meantime though, voting for a 3rd party under your system is basically a vote for the person you don’t want.
Vote Biden if you would dislike having Trump more. If you don’t want to do that, then yeah, you’re basically admitting you’re cool with the outcome of Trump presidency.
Please don’t waste your vote, your vassals beg you.
I don’t want Biden OR trump. that’s why I’m voting for a so-called third party
In a first past the post system of districts with single representative candidates, it almost always resolves to two viable parties. That’s the way it’s been for basically all of American history.
The parties can change, but the shape of the system remains constant: a vote is only effective when cast for the largest opponent of your least desired candidate. It’s unintuitive and discouraging.
The parliamentary systems used in much of Europe, for all their flaws, do allow for more robust and diverse representation.
There is no viable third party without voting reform.
If you really want smaller parties to have any chance, go help the people within the democratic party who are trying to make that happen.
Greens in America aren’t in a position to govern. Even if Stein got enough electoral votes through the work of 30-60 literal miracles, she’d be totally unable to govern effectively. You need a deep bench and more of a base in the other branches of government to form a party that can effect changes and run this country
There’s more to federal elections than winning. It’s always hilarious when people that don’t understand how fucked our system is try to teach others.
Teaching civics is part of the “a republic, if you can keep it” that Franklin was talking about
The timing maybe? I’ve been saying Biden is the worst example of a democrat since the Obama days, and got downvoted about pointing out his bullshit. His contribution to the drug war alone is atrocious. But I kept getting down voted for saying it. Suddenly now it’s election time, second go round, and here comes everyone jumping on Biden. Seems sus.
We have lived under presidencies of both Biden and Trump.
It isn’t sus to realize one is better than the other, dude
Huh? That’s what I’m saying, Biden is a saint compared to Trump. It’s just sus that right now, at election time 2024 is when it’s suddenly a big deal. It only benefits Trump
Your wording was probably a little confusing, I read “jumping on Biden” initially as in “voting / rooting for him”, but you likely meant it in the context of them “questioning everything he does”. Depending which one is used changes your phrasing from criticizing Biden to supporting him.
Thing is, the absolutely worst things that he’s done throughout his career have been pretty mainstream at the time. Like that omnibus crime bill? That was overwhelmingly supported, with only very, very limited Democratic opposition in very limited areas. (And a lot of black communities still support ‘tough on crime’ approaches because they look at the short term rather than the long.)
Even the support of Israel is pretty middle-of-the-road. Most Dems still support Israel, even while being appalled at the indiscriminate nature of Israel’s violence in Gaza
TBH many “leftists” (aka grifters, shills, fash…) do like trump.
Genocide should not be a bipartisan issue. Genocide being unelectable even in just one party is good. If your starting position is “yes, both candidates will commit genocide” you should continue with discussion about direct action tactics. Otherwise I’ll doubt that you actually think Biden is committing genocide.
Nother reminder: not voting for biden isvoting for trump regardless if you support either of them
Another genocide supporter. Got it.
Well I’m not voting for Trump so I guess, by your logic, that means I’m voting for Biden. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Trump is leading the polls.
so if you currently think “im not gonna vote”, then you’re giving trump a head start
A majority of the non-voters are more likely to vote for the democrats. thats also why the republicans are making it as difficult as possible to vote. coz they know, the more who vote, the less likely they are at winning
Asserting this is obtusely ignoring the context that conservative voters have no qualms about voting for someone grossly immoral.
There aren’t conservatives out there saying “Yeah well I was gonna vote for Trump but he supports genociding Palestinians”.
The fact that conservatives don’t have this problem and everyone else does means that, yes, you are enabling Trump by not voting Biden. The “logic” necessarily does not work the other way around, even if you say it like some sort of clever gotcha with a complex emoji.
“Nooo you don’t understand I’m definitely going to defeat fascism by doing absolutely nothing ever. You just don’t understand the benefits of political apathy”
Something something accelerationism… surely if we let the fascists win now then they’ll let us win later!
so the so-called third party voters get to vote for their candidate and another candidate? why doesn’t everyone vote for so-called third parties, then? twice as many votes!!
Why indeed? The fact is that not enough people vote for third parties for it to matter by an order of magnitude.
Conservatives don’t vote third party. When we do, we split our own vote in the face of a party that has their base on lock.
Because that logic is abundantly obvious, people don’t vote third party enough to make a difference. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. And it’s so effective at actually splitting the vote that both parties have attempted running spoiler candidates in the past to do just that.
Why doesnt everyone just vote third party? Because enough people who could are afraid that it will mean degrading democracy by handing over the reigns if it doesn’t work, thereby creating the very problem that they are afraid of.
it’s so effective at actually splitting the vote
vote splitting is a myth.
Vote splitting is not a myth. It’s just math. Let me explain with an example:
1000 people at a conference are deciding where to order catering and hold a vote:
- 490 people want Mexican and do not want Asian
- 510 people want Asian:
- 480 people want Vietnamese, would be satisfied with Thai, and do not want Mexican
- 30 people want Thai, would be satisfied with Vietnamese, and do not want Mexican
The restaurants on the ballot are:
- A Mexican restaurant,
- A Vietnamese restaurant, and
- A Thai restaurant.
If the people who want Asian recognize the strength of their combined numbers, then they can tip the scales by all voting for the favorite between Vietnamese and Thai. In this situation, we get 490 votes Mexican, 510 votes Vietnamese, and 0 votes Thai. This time Vietnamese wins and the majority of people, the 510 who prefer Asian, are either happy or satisfied with the result while only 490 are disappointed.
If everyone votes for their favorite, then we get 490 votes Mexican, 480 votes Vietnamese, and 30 votes Thai. In this case, Mexican wins and the majority of people, the 510 who prefer Asian, are left disappointed while only 490 people are happy with the result. The vote has been split and the result is that the entire conference is worse off for it.
By the way, the ratio of 480 Vietnamese to 30 Thai is irrelevant as long as neither value is 0. That ratio can be fixed to any positive value and a situation can be described in which vote splitting occurs with that specific ratio of Vietnamese supporters to Thai supporters. That’s why vote splitting isn’t too uncommon - any number of people voting Thai has the potential to split the vote. The one caveat is if literally every Vietnamese supporter decides to vote Thai as well; in that scenario, no vote splitting can occur. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen in practice because it’s easier to convert the Thai supporters who are smaller in number than it is to convert the Vietnamese supporters who have greater numbers.
If you want examples from history, there are plenty. Our electoral college amplifies the effect since it breaks one federal election down into a large number of state elections, any of which can exhibit vote splitting. Other people have linked to them in this discussion and you can find more elsewhere online.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve read today.
this isn’t evidence that vote splitting stories hold water. it’s just an appeal to ridicule.
They’re almost certainly a bot. Report them.
Conservatives don’t vote third party
this isn’t true
Then how the hell did Trump win in 2016 and nearly win in 2020? He is literally antithetical to everything conservatives say they are, yet they still fucking turned out and voted for him instead of someone else.
not every conservative voted for him
Only one explicitly right wing 3rd party was even an option in 2020, and Jorgensen ran libertarian, which is an ideology conservatives as a whole tend to reject. As evidenced by the ~1% of the vote she got.
this isn’t true
Are you sure about that?
seems like you know that conservatives did vote for a so-called third party
One day y’all will get the point that this entire ideology is in and of itself fascist.
“We aren’t fascist we just stripped you of all other choices and move the goalposts anytime someone gets close to inclusion then blame you for wanting another option while shrieking that only WE can save the country but also we won’t save it either cause we haven’t had a platform other than ‘slightly less right’ for over a decade or two now.”
One day you will get the point that the reality is that we as voters don’t make the rules.
Yeah, you’re right. We’re boxed into this shitty ass system. Grandstanding about how shitty it is doesn’t magically create a solution.
We vote for the least worst option and try to make progress towards a better situation in the future. It’s either that or we fall to actual fascists who would rather take the vote away.
“Actual fascists”
We already have “actual fascists.” Reread your comment, even by YALLS OWN EXPLANATION, our vote was taken away long before we were born. Nothing but performative bullshit so you can claim to be the “good guy” as we’re further and further clamped down on.
What you actually mean by “take the vote away” is “take your status quo” away. Biden and dems have been pushing legislation to take away all the hassle of nuking leftist organizations and to make ANY criticism of Israel something that let’s them strip a school of funding and accreditation if they allow it - but y’all don’t mind any of that “actual fascism” because it doesn’t affect your personal day to day life.
You can fly your pride flags all you want but you’re throwing Palestinians under the bus to protect your warmongering corporatist status quo, y’all are starting to throw trans people under the bus to protect it, and when the time comes you’ll do the same to gays and POC all while screaming about the “lesser of two evils.”
We can’t get through to these idiots. They are the fools that use literally to mean figuratively.
No one here WANTS to vote for Biden, but it’s literally the only way to make sure Trump isn’t president, unless you want to go ahead and change the national bipartisan system by November.
Were you predisposed to vote for Trump? Then yes.
Theres bullets for both of them
Please don’t fedpost, they actually have people who investigate this shit.
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas
That’s what the 2nd amendment is for my boy.
Second amendment is when murder. Got it.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
This is easy stuff. Middle school social studies. Don’t be a boot licker.
They’re not talking about a well regulated militia, they said a bullet for the current sitting president of the United States and a former president of the United States.Im not saying anything against the second. I’m saying that what they have implied is actually just murder.
And I’m saying you’re a pussy and god help you if society breaks down.
Ok big tough guy
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas
I wouldn’t feel bad about it. If that scenario ever happened honestly I’d have a celebratory drink.
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas
Not a problem for everyone else but US. US has been using that same tactic for a lot of other countries. We’d probably consider it karma catching up at this point.
And as always, you can always blame someone else that got you to this point. But we’re so used to that now.
what a crazy era to live in.
This post is kinda fucking depressing.
A group holds a vote to either cross a bridge to side A or stay on side B. Staying on side A means you won’t have much food. Going to side B means you still won’t have much food, but also most of the food is poisonous.
Part of the group says “I don’t want to starve, I refuse to vote in a way that accepts malnourishment as a solution!” Group C also opposes eating poisonous food. This partial group votes to try and find a better source of food (option C).
48% of people vote A. 49% of people vote B. 3% of people vote C.
Surprise, surprise, Group C had 0 impact on the starving situation AND helped facilitate the eating of poisonous food.
Fuck Biden, and FUCK Trump. But if you think voting for a leftist party or abstaining from voting will change anything in a system entirely designed around having only two candidates, you are just as okay with Trump as you are with Biden. At the very least, you are saying that they are equally as bad, showing that you clearly don’t understand the dynamic.
‘Dislike’ and ‘support’ are immaterial. Votes are all that matter. Sorry in reality no one cares about your super nuanced political position but if you’re not voting for Biden in 2024 you’re either useless or an actively opposing my civil and human rights.
