Our canine teeth are pretty shark-like. Not all of our teeth are that way though. So going by our teeth, I think we’re omnivores.
I always laugh at people that never saw a pacu
Aww it’s British.
You must laugh a lot
It’s good for you. More people should.
The secret to happiness is you must laugh and sweat every day.
— Yogi Bhajan
That’s okay. I didn’t feel like getting any sleep tonight anyways…
We’re omnivores, dumbass.
Find the nearest school bus and just get on.
Ok that was a fun one the first couple of times I heard it. 🙉
Sounds like you need to spend less time online then :)
Typical vegan shitposting
Nice, isn’t it?
No. It never is
I fear you have a shitposting deficiency.
what a stupid meme. it’s almost like sharks don’t have arms and hands so they rely on their jaws more than we do. wow look we don’t have compartments in our stomach, we must not be fit to eat plants.
I am assuming this is some sort of vegan talking point that since some human teeth are mostly flat, ignoring canines and some particularly sharp front incisors, humans are supposed to eat only plants? Aren’t humans omnivores though?
You are interpreting that backwards. I wouldnt say it’s a vegan talking point so much as a non vegan talking point in reverse. It’s commonly argued that because humans have canines were meant to eat meat. Whereas vegans fully acknowledge the capacity to digest meat and evolutionary history that evolved omnivorous diets (but argue the majority of (not all) people have a want rather than a need) . The vegans are just memeing back.
meh I’ve heard mostly vegans make this dumbass argument.
I definitely support vegans but I don’t support pseudoscientific bullshit no matter who says it.
If anything is dumbass pseudoscience, it’s the paleo diet, carnivore diet, and all other low carb diets.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FNIoKmMq6cs&pp=ygUhcGFsZW9udG9sb2dpc3QgZGVidW5rcyBwYWxlbyBkaWV0
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-problem-with-the-paleo-diet-argument/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18596505-the-low-carb-fraud
Nutritionfacts is a pseudoscience site.
The paleo diet is definitely, absolutely bullshit, but ketogenic diets have real use and purpose, if you can adhere to a strict ketogenic diet, and can do so without becoming malnourished (both of which are damn near impossible for most people). If you can get your body into a state of ketosis–not ketoacidosis, which is a potentially fatal condition most often associated with diabetes–then you burn off body fat much, much more quickly when you’re on a calorie-deficient diet, because your body is already using fats as a primary source for energy rather than carbohydrates. The downside is that you’ll feel like absolute dogshit for a few days until you adjust, since glucose is the preferred fuel for cellular respiration.
Your defense of keto boils down to: people need to lose weight fast or they will give up, so its useful? Its an incredibly damaging diet if you were to stay on it for life.
And if you are only meant to use it to lose weight, what exactly do people transition to when done?
Nutritionfacts is a pseudoscience site.
thank you
If anything is dumb it’s limiting your diet.
Multiple different things can be dumbass pseudoscience, actually. Any time someone starts talking about what humans “were meant to eat”, I’m done listening. Humans can and do survive and thrive on an extremely broad variety of diets. It’s part of why societies were able to develop in so many different places.
Right, exactly. This is what I said. Humans _can _ survive on vegan diets. So the question becomes, if it’s possible to live a totally healthy normal life not eating meat, should you? This is the moral line that vegans come down on differently than the typical meat eater.
Nobody is arguing that humans can’t eat meat or that it wasn’t beneficial for our ancestors to be able to. The question is, if it’s not required, is it moral? Btw, veganism is about harm reduction. There are people to this day in impoverished countries who are actually required to eat meat to achieve sufficient nutrient intake. You will find 99% vegans having no problem with those people. But if you live in a country with basic infrastructure you probably have enough to at least significantly reduce meat intake
Hi there! You appear to be interpreting some type of meat eating ideology from my comment. Let me encourage you to take it at face value - the only intent is to criticize the idea that humans are “meant” to eat particular foods, an idea present both in the meme that started this thread and in the above mentioned paleo diet
We are agreeing lol. My point is that vegans do not actually make this argument. I have yet to ever hear it made unironically. Sometimes it is made in jest because it is made to us with sincerity from meat eater ideology.
Another question is: if it’s moral, are you gonna do it for that reason?
I have no arguments against veganism. Vegans are right. Yet I am not a vegan.
People vary in their adherence to their own morals. Some change their morals more often than they change their actions.
I choose to be someone who puts my morals above my wants, at least as often as I can, and I try to learn all the time if there are other ways I am inadvertently going against my own morals.
Edit to add: I also used to agree with veganism and not take part, mainly out of fear it would be too hard and I’d fail or hurt myself. And then one day I just did it. I dont regret it one bit.
This is the “fuck off, I like guns” of meat eating and pretty much the only argument I’m receptive to. I get frustrated when people argue they should be able to do things using bad arguments. But if you say, I don’t have a good argument for this but I’m gonna do it anyway, that’s at least being honest with yourself and I respect that a lot more.
To be honest I do largely agree with you on this. What we did eat should not really determine what we should eat now.
Have you realized you’re arguing with somebody named militant vegan yet?
Humans have teeth suitable for both meat and plant foods. So I would say humans are omnivores.
I may be wrong, but a 100% vegan only diet I think requires supplements to be taken for certain things like proteins that humans need in order to live. Of course, those certain proteins are found in meats.
However, I think saying humans are carnovires would also be incorrect, and a 100% meat only diet would be I think equally as unhealthy as a 100% plant only diet.
I don’t think you read my post carefully. I said humans have teeth for both meat and plants. I didn’t say that humans aren’t omnivores. I just said (implicitly) that they are not obligate omnivores.
Proteins are not a concern, you can get all essential amino acids through only plant protein. Pretty much the only one that is hard to get enough of is B12. With real determination it can be done but it’s easier to just supplement. By the way, most omnis also do not get enough B12 and eat supplements either directly or through fortified foods. It’s just usually they are getting it through fortified milk which vegans don’t drink.
Milk is not typically fortified with B12. Plant based milk is more likely to be B12 fortified.
Probably depends on the country…
The idea that a pure plant-based diet can’t provide all the protein we need has been thoroughly debunked for a long time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DMwf_9wqWY0&pp=ygUdc3RhbmZvcmQgc2NpZW50aXN0IG9uIHByb3RlaW4%3D
The nutrient you’re thinking of is b12. Vegans need to supplement b12 (for now, discoveries are still being made on that front). But at the same time, in a sense, so does everyone else.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UUyiiNwDNLU&pp=ygUOZWQgd2ludGVycyBiMTI%3D
You don’t need to supplement b12 if you eat meat unless you have health issues that cause malabsorption.
Not really, many many more people are B12 insufficient than there are vegans/vegetarians. And much of what B12 you get is because supplements are given…to the animals. See e.g. https://baltimorepostexaminer.com/carnivores-need-vitamin-b12-supplements/2013/10/30
Where I live, various vegan-targeted foods are fortified with B12, so it might be possible to get enough B12 that way without supplementing.
My natural diet includes energy drinks, ensuring I have a nutritionally balanced intake that includes B12 :)
(I say this jokingly, but it is literally true)
Say you’re a (fellow) GFuel nerd without saying you’re a GFuel nerd.
Nah, just monster
a plant based diet is completely healthy as long as you eat varied foods and don’t try something stupid like subsisting on apples and dandelions.
There are world renowned athletes who are plant based…
And going back to your main point, it’s really just dubious to draw conclusions about what we are “meant” to eat based on the shape of our teeth. If all we’re considering is health and history, it’s not entirely accurate to say we’re just omnivores. It’s more like we are predominantly herbivores with some capacity for opportunistic omnivory in emergencies, but our ability to live on animal foods is rudimentary at best and comes at a high health cost. Also consider that from a Paleolithic standpoint, early humans would have been eating much more bugs as their protein, as that would have been far more abundant and easily gathered. Hunting is unreliable, and in most circumstances would have been a luxury at best (the book “Edible” goes into this).
Of course we also are becoming more intelligent, and have emerged the capacity for moral evolution. The paleo concept as a whole is ultimately just the argument from tradition fallacy. We can do better.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FNIoKmMq6cs&pp=ygUhcGFsZW9udG9sb2dpc3QgZGVidW5rcyBwYWxlbyBkaWV0
The paleo argument is about matching the environment of evolutionary adaptedness in diet, not tradition.
People seem to forget that human evolution started 3 billion years ago so our evolutionarily-adapted diet isn’t just “paleo”
People have a real hard time separating Omnivores from Carnivores and Carnivores from Herbivores.
I suggest reading “The Nature of Predators”
Great learning tool for such things imo. The backbone of the story is those distinctions and their societal impacts. Vegans will hate it tho. As the BBEGs of the story use corruption, exploitation, coercion, genetic engineering, social engineering, and war to force omnivores and obligate carnivores to be obligate herbivores.
Nah, don’t you understand? I’m literally designed to hunt and kill animals, just like other predators.
This gun? Well how else am i supposed to kill them? I don’t have any sort of claws or sharp teeth or anything designed to kill animals for sustinence
What do you mean why am i cooking the meat? I’ll get sick if i don’t, just like every other predator on the planet. Plus, i couldn’t even chew it if it were raw.
And all that is assuming natural = moral, which, if your moral code is equivilant to a lions, is not compatible with society. But it’s convenient to not change most people’s behavior, so they’re cool ignoring the logical conclusion of that argument.
This is not a valid argument. We literally evolved to use tools. And humans absolutely can eat raw meat
Just because we evolved a relatively recent ability to do something, doesn’t mean that thing is necessarily in our best interest. As I said elsewhere in this post, we have some capacity for omnivory at a high health cost, but that doesn’t change that our deeper roots have structured us for more plant-dominant lifestyles.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-problem-with-the-paleo-diet-argument/
We evolved to be susceptible to tobacco addiction. Also, tobacco smoking is an ancient human tradition.
The reason we cook most meats is because capitalism dictates it should be produced the cheapest possible way, leading to contaminations and other nasty stuff in the meat that require cooking it. Even salmonella isn’t present in raw chicken if the chicken grew in a clean environment eating clean food.
The most dangerous meats are ones originating from wild animals. Eg there are all sorts of nasty parasite cysts in wild boar meat. Nature is brutal and there is no such thing as “clean” meat from wild animals. Human inability to deal with this and becoming severely sick without thoroughly cooking the wild meat is evidence that even if we technically are somewhere on omnivore spectrum, we’re not really good omnivores—certainly not as good as bears or even boars. Honestly, eating insects, honey and eggs in addition to plants (fruit specifically) seems more like what we’re evolved to do.
Saw an article recently about a whole family that god worms in their brains from eating undercooked bear.
That said, best speculation right now is that it was our ability to use fire that allowed us to evolve to where we are now, because we were able to pre-digest food by cooking it, and also have a very-high protein diet that allowed our brains to evolve to where they are now.
Dude what the fuck are you on about? Wild animals carry parasites and other harmful microorganisms that cooking removes. Are you seriously implying that modern farming is the reason we cook our food?
I know that capitalism is the boogeyman on lemmy and is the cause of all things bad, but this one really takes the cake.
Why so aggressive? I realize my original comment was maybe not clear and lacked context because I honestly just typed it in a bit of a rush without thinking too hard about it, but that’s no reason to put words in my mouth and attack me.
Obviously, wild animals can carry parasites and we certainly started dying from food born illnesses much less often once we figured out to cook the meat, that’s so basic I didn’t even think my comment could be interpreted that way. But that has little to do with the topic (which was whether we can digest raw meat) and ignores the myriad of dishes that are made of raw meat like steak tartare, torisashi, charcuterie, carpaccio, sushi, poisson cru a la tahitienne, etc etc.
The common theme of all these dishes is the meat is of high quality, butchered and prepared well (Vs minced meat full of cow shit because they don’t bother butchering them properly, for example). That was my only point.
Another common theme of all those dishes is you never eat those things in communist countries.
Your statement, “Even salmonella isn’t present in raw chicken […]” implies that wild fowl–animals that don’t have to worry about sanitary conditions in modern, industrial farming–would be safe to eat raw. Taking sushi and sashimi as another example, that’s safe(-ish) only because they use ocean fish; there’s no freshwater sushi because freshwater fish carry parasites that can infect humans, and so isn’t safe, even from the most pristine lakes and streams in the world.
I’d say that modern farming–when the best practices are used–is the reason we’re able to eat things raw at all. When you look at feces from Romans up through late medieval Europeans, you see that most humans had all kinds of nasty intestinal parasites. (Also, a certain amount of parasitic infection seems to be good, because it keeps your autoimmune system from always being on ultra-high alert.)
Yes that’s fair, I can see how it was interpreted that way. The chicken example I had in mind was a specific one, and the chickens aren’t wild at all just well cared for and extreme care is given to the preparation, I didn’t have wild animals in mind at all which carry a whole bunch of other well known risks, only ones that are farmed in good conditions and used to prepare raw meat dishes every day across the globe.
If only more people were really aware of the health risks of consuming undercooked wild meat…
People do a lot of dumb shit. Some hunters still have a ritual of making a first-time hunter eat a raw heart from their first kill, which sounds like a great way to end up with a raging parasitic infection to me.
because capitalism dictates
So your model of capitalism is that one can either provide value or make a profit, but not both because they’re opposing forces?
No man. The “free” part of the term “free market” means nobody has to buy shitty products.
It’s why we’re surrounded by abundant, diverse, high quality food: the only way to succeed under capitalism is to provide more value for the dollar than your competitors.
Somehow people think free markets cause a lack of alignment between what people value and what happens, but that’s exactly the opposite of what’s true.
The most dangerous meats are ones originating from wild animals. Eg there are all sorts of nasty parasite cysts in wild boar meat. Nature is brutal and there is no such thing as “clean” meat from wild animals. Human inability to deal with this and becoming severely sick without thoroughly cooking the wild meat is evidence that even if we technically are somewhere on omnivore spectrum, we’re not really good omnivores—certainly not as good as bears or even boars. Honestly, eating insects, honey and eggs in addition to plants (fruit specifically) seems more like what we’re evolved to do.
Yes, because we evolved to eat body parts from animals who were raised in laboratory conditions? Get real, the majority of infectious outbreaks have a zoonotic origin. Covid was caused by carnists, and so is h5n1. You can’t have any animal domestication without an increase of pathogens.
Who talked about laboratory conditions? Just normal conditions like being outside, instead of the pool of shit battery chickens are raised in.
And as others have already said here, all other sources of animal foods are also unclean, because animals are unclean. Your idea of clean meat could only come from a laboratory - lab-grown animal-free meat, for example.
Ok buddy, guess I’m dead from all the charcuterie, steak tartare, carpaccio and sushi I’ve eaten in my life and typing this from hell (obviously wouldn’t be heaven, what with the meat eating and all).
I’m just assuming that you are, in fact, aware that the likely primary advantage of inventing cooking was that the food is partially broken down before we consume it, meaning we need much less time and energy digesting it, which leaves us with more time to do other things, which is a huge evolutionary advantage. Right? Of course, every child knows that most animals spend a significant amount of time just digesting food, far more than humans.
Well, since you’re clearly a well educated person that knows these things, I can’t find any other reasoning behind what you posted here than that you’re arguing in bad faith, or trolling. Please either read a book or stop trolling. In any case, don’t post about shit you know nothing about.
Maybe we evolved to use our brains to make and use tools. Maybe we’re currently evolving to use our brains to eat fewer animals.
Our ancestors fought their way to the top of the food chain over millions of years. It just feels wrong and ungrateful to eat a purely plant based diet. Like I’m betraying my own species.
I wouldn’t mind eating a vegan diet if there was a way to compensate. We could, for example, have a system where for every vegan meal sold someone strangles a small rodent.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Get some feeder rats from the snake store and rip ones head off with every meal. Bonus points for using teeths.
Maybe that has nothing to do with your original argument. Maybe that has nothing to do with what’s in the meme that we’re discussing.
I’m gonna try to reel back my snark, i just deleted a bunch of stuff i wrote. I’ll just say it is good for people to try to eat less meat, but you aren’t helping your cause with the way you’re speaking here.
I’m not OP, I’m just here to stir the pot. You gotta read usernames more. I’m just pointing out that evolution is an ongoing process with no endpoint or goal.
And all that is assuming natural = moral
So why did you waste two paraphs arguing it’s not natural if you consider that irrelevant?
I am sympathetic with veganism and I am working on reducing my meat consumption. Of all the arguments for veganism, “eating meat is not natural” is not one of them.
What do you mean why am i cooking the meat? I’ll get sick if i don’t, just like every other predator on the planet.
I had raw meat for dinner today.
You can get vegan cyanide from bitter almonds.
The tongue one looks so silly lol
Humans don’t have to kill things with their teeth. Sharks do.
Humans generally don’t need to kill animals.
Nothing does.
Soon we’ll be able to produce all the meat we want without any conscious creatures involved
I’ll just wait until photosynthesis can support brain function.
You sick bastard. Oh well to each his own.
Well, I don’t like meat anyway, so…
Let me guess: fava beans?
It’s true. I usually eat animals that were killed for me. Thanks, grocery stores!
That depends on which humans and where. There are still plenty of tribes that live in areas where vegetation simply does not support their population. Luckily, humans evolved to be feed on more things than most things on the planet. We can eat plants, fungi, bugs, fish, etc.
So you’re right. Humans don’t need to kill animals. We can survive by killing just about any living thing on this planet. We can even eat things that would otherwise be super toxic to us by learning how to cook it, peel it, or skin it.
Pufferfish
develops one of the most lethal toxins in the animal kingdom
Humans
Oooh yummy!
Peppers
Develops a chemical that makes them taste like pain for mammals to make it more likely that birds will eat their fruit and spread it farther
Humans
Oooh, spicy! Let’s grow lots of these and breed some to maximize that spice!
Peppers
Wait no–oh nm, I guess it’s a surprise win.
Neither do cows but I’ve seen one too many slurp a Snake like spaghetti and eat baby birds as if they were KitKats
Just because an animal does it doesn’t mean it’s okay for humans to do it
Just because an animal does it doesn’t mean it’s okay for humans to do it
Then comparing human teeth to animal teeth is irrelevant no? Because what the animals do is irrelevant.
Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy boi. If a cow ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about!
Aren’t we also “just” animals as well though?
(Not defending either side, I just really dislike it when statements suggest we aren’t also literally animals that somehow figured out to think slightly more than others…)
Technically correct is the best correct. We are animals!
We are animals in a very literal sense, but justifying an immoral act because it’s natural for animals to do it opens the door to justifying other immoral acts because animals do them. Humans are animals, but we’re uniquely the only animals capable of choosing to act ethically.
Explain why not
Many animals reproduce via rape. If I need to explain further, then I can’t help you
Funny thing is, have You ever seen any human having this kind of teeth naturally? No? Good coz nobody has, maybe (just maybe) as replacements but that would be the really cheap ones.
Yeah one thing you notice about the ocean is the teeth are designed so if you catch something it can’t get away. Look at anglerfish and baleen. White sharks have hundreds of teeth. Most omnivorous land mammals have teeth just like ours.
This is just a bad comparison, but it is funny.
The joke is making fun of people who call us carnivores, though. Our teeth are very different from land carnivores, as well.
Again, humans don’t kill with their teeth like land carnivores do.
I understand that, but my point was that we aren’t carnivores at all, we are omnivores.
I am not vegan FWIW, I was just responding to the person who was saying that comparing us to sea carnivores was a bad comparison, when comparing us to land carnivores yields the same results. It seemed kind of like they missed the point of the joke which was to make fun of people who wrongly call us carnivores, especially as a response to veganism.
It was all kind of useless pedantry on my part, anyways, so I apologize.
vegancirclejerk banned be for this image XD
Holy crap so edgy!
Humans are omnivores. No way lefties are revising science on this too… right?
…
Right?
Science revises science all the time. Authoritarians do too but in a most unscientific way.
There are plenty of Leftists that are pro-science and anti-authoritarian. Please don’t lump us altogether.
Most things are omnivores. Some predators like cats are obligate carnivores (must eat meat to survive) but most creatures get nutrients wherever they can.
There’s a video of a deer straight up eating a baby chicken. It’s not built to be a predator, but when the opportunity presents itself…
Doubt it’s the lefties, but it’s for sure the vegans.
That venn diagram is damn near a perfect circle.
As a lefty vegan, let me assure you it is not. Just look at the comments in this thread and you’ll see tons of vegan hate on a mostly lefty lemmy.
Right…. And- of the vegans, I’d bet a large petition of them are lefties. That’s the point being made.
That’s not a near perfect circle. That’s a smaller circle inside of a larger circle.
Lefty omnivore here. Not hating on vegans just on the militant ones. I think vegan is the way to go but I’m not ready for it yet and hate being talked down to about it.
You can make incremental changes without fully committing. Vegans might talk down to you about it but are you doing it for them or are you doing it for you / the world.
Indeed.
But… who ever says that? I’ve never heard of this idea presented as evidence for why we should eat meat.
Holy shit why can’t vegans shut the fuck up about veganism
They’re part of the “If I’m doing nothing then I’m part of the problem” crowd.
Otherwise known as “moralizing busybodies”
People who mentioned veganism: Just you, Bud.
Downvote if you’re secretly attracted to your own dad.
Look at the name of the person posting. Kinda makes a statement.
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Says the person tying to claim humans are supposed to be herbivores.
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those of herbivores are hands or hooves
And then it just completely goes downhill from here… Show me a single fucking herbivore that has hands. 👎
Also you realize it’s possible that creatures can evolve into omnivores from prolong environmental pressure, right? Are you not familiar with evolution? Did you sleep through life science?
Also, you realize that from that same exact source there are thousands of papers and studies contradicting that paper. You might as well become a farmer with how well you pick cherries.
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That paper is making some absolutely ridiculously unscientific comparisons, and immediately ignores the existence of omnivores after flatly stating that most people eat an obvious diet. It’s absolute trash.
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How can I downvote twice?
Here, take mine since I’m not attracted to my dad. 🤣 (I applied it for you to the other guy… Maybe I am attracted to my dead dad- I do eat meat and that’s obscene according to these vegans)
- Spin up your own instance
- Set up a bunch of bot accounts to spam downvotes at people that post inflammatory garbage on popular communities
- We all profit
I’m sorry, my reply is inflammatory garbage? Not the person calling out vegans in a comment under a meme? Yeah, okay.
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