I’m kind of in a strange boat right now where I’m really comfortable in Canada yet I can’t shake this feeling I need to get over to the US of A in order to take advantage of that strong USD. I, like many Canadians, work for an American firm and have a TN visa. Recently, my employer offered to sponsor me for a green card, if I ever choose to relocate to the USA. I can live pretty much anywhere I want as I’m a remote employee, but I do travel to the USA for client work.
It’s a tough decision to make. While I consider it, I thought I’d ask the community. So, say you good lemmings?
If you have a lot of money , why not? But think to the cost of travel to see your family.
No. The risks outweigh any possible benefits. If it’s a red state then the risks are even higher in terms of quality of education, healthcare and employment.
I would recommend most people to live away from their hometown if they get an opportunity to. It’s worth seeing and experiencing how other people live - and it’s worth getting out of your comfort zone. Are you going to learn, grow and be better as a result? As well, is your career going to be fostered as a result?
It’s quite a general question because I don’t know what your values are. I don’t know what you’re leaving behind or how you’re quantifying that. But the US isn’t a monolith in climate, landscape, politics, culture, people, government, etc. You can live in on a Hawaiian island or in the vast concrete jungle of New York City - be in the same country, but live polar opposite lives. Canada isn’t a monolith either, but it’s not as extreme.
If money is your motivation, do a cost benefit analysis with the region you want to live in.
If all else fails to provide answers, leave it to fate. Flip a coin.
I would recommend most people to live away from their hometown if they get an opportunity to.Hot take here but that’s a waste of resources (and potentially money) and a very cultural thing. Anglo Canadians and Americans packing up and moving across the country for university and then taking the plane to visit their family a couple of times a year… We don’t see that as much from other cultures in both countries.
Totally agree here. There are many Canadians that would never in a million years consider moving the US and I think that’s a pretty narrow view of the country. It’s a big country with a lot of diversity and until you’ve at least visited I don’t think it’s fair to write it off. Hawaii is a great example. It’s an absolute paradise with a unique local culture, but is still technically the US.
The Mayan Riviera is absolutely gorgeous, but it’s not exactly a representative sample for what moving to Mexico would be like, and a vacation there is not the same as moving there either. I’ll very happily visit the US. I’ll do the touristy things, I’ll meet with my American friends, I’ll go to Vegas for a weekend and melt into a puddle. But if I were picking up and moving I would want to be good and damn sure that my life there would be an improvement and that’s not a great bet in a lot of cases in the US, especially when one half of the government is actively, intentionally and openly working to make everyone’s life worse and there’s a reasonable chance that they’ll be back in power with the next election. And even if they aren’t they’re still able to act through state government and the Supreme Court.
I’ve been doing some figuring to see if leaving the country is feasible for myself, but the US doesn’t make my short list of destinations. It’s a nice place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there.
inb4 all the comments immediately telling you it’s a bad idea i just wanna say that this isn’t a bad opportunity. america isn’t nearly as bad in day-to-day life as it seems and depending on your field you’ll almost certainly receive a large pay raise versus employment in canada. considering you can relocate anywhere in the US, cost of living shouldn’t be an issue. you very well might be able to find significantly lower cost of living in multiple american localities than in canada. if your benefits are good from your employer and can offset the costs of losing access to socialized medicine, you very well might be able to increase your gross income by a fairly significant amount. it just really amounts to playing your cards right and i’m getting the vibe you have a whole lot of wiggle room with your choices here. if you can square a lot of these issues away, america is a pretty great place to live all things considered. do realize you are entering a very volatile social atmosphere, however, and recognize you might become significantly “closer,” both physically and otherwise, to the primary major hotspots of global political instability. this isn’t necessarily bad, depending on you personally. there’s a unique opportunity for change in america currently, and it would be baseless to claim the mere existence of things like political activism, terrorism, gun violence, etc. inherently discount being here in principle. the vast majority of americans have never experienced an act of terror. in fact, if you care about a lot of global issues currently ongoing, then generally speaking america is likely your best bet for your activism or ideas to have significant impact
Activism only really works if you’re a citizen/PR of the country, otherwise you risk being deported.
The other thing is that a lot of American activism is targeted at problems that are mostly, well, American.
that’s a fair point and i wouldn’t necessarily disagree. honestly i suppose my point is more that when it comes to global issues, typically the largest multi-national organizations focused on them are based in the united states. there’s a lot more opportunities for global work here than elsewhere. that isn’t to say a lot of those same things exist in countries around the globe. but there is certainly a lot of global wealth and soft power focused around the american metropolises, and there’s no real reason to discount that. foreigners work in these nonprofits all the time. for a lot of people, working in these organizations is a capstone
I considered it and did an 8mo internship in Calafornia in 2016. While I would make about 2x what I make here (literally, I made 25CAD/hr in canada and 50CAD/hr in the states doing the same job with the same manager.) I don’t think it’s worth it for me at least. For one, the medical insurance is kinda insanely expensive, it ate up a huge chunk of the difference in costs while also not being nearly as good and making every trip to the doctors a huge worry and also a cost benefit analysis (and this was with very good, subsidized by my company insurance). I dislocated my shoulder in a biking accident while in Cali, I didn’t go to the doctor because I thought it was just a sprain and the doctors would not be able to do anything (while costing me like 200 bucks). When I got back to Canada I got it checked out and they said it was too late to do anything but that it could have benefited from physio when it was fresh.
The healthcare as well as a hundred other factors has knock on effects where poorer folks are very noticeably worse off. Toronto has a lot of homeslessness, but I don’t think Ive ever seen a homeless guy using a ruler as a splint on a leg bent the wrong way in Toronto. I don’t want to live in a place that does that to people.
Lastly I found public transit to be even more of a joke than it is in Toronto, and as someone that never wants to drive daily that was kinda awful.
While I would probably be marginally more wealthy in the US, I would definitely be less happy, and have a dirtier conscious. I am pretty well off regardless and that was a while ago before the housing crisis in Canada really kicked off so maybe you’ll reach a difference conclusion.
Toronto has a lot of homeslessness, but I don’t think Ive ever seen a homeless guy using a ruler as a splint on a leg bent the wrong way in Toronto. I don’t want to live in a place that does that to people.
This is a big part of why I don’t think I could ever live in the states. What a cruel place to live.
The main thing driving me to look south of the border is the cost of housing. The cheaper housing might balance out the bad government services depending on the location.
Cheaper housing is outside main city centers in both cases, you don’t win anything if your housing is cheaper but you pay back the difference (and more) in healthcare coverage and scholarship (if you’ve got kids).
Do it! Experience as much of the world as you can - especially if your employer will help with cost/visa!
I’m planning on going to the states next year. Double the salary and better opportunities.
If you are single this sounds like it might be an interesting opportunity as long as you find a GOOD place to settle in the US. Much like every province is very different in Canada so are the states.
However keep a few things in mind:
- you will be a foreigner ( make sure you know your rights / or lack there of)
- your employment terms may change immediately from being fairly safe and having severance in Canada in law to changing to at will termination in the US depending on the state and situation.
- find out ALL the details of your company medical coverage and its cost before going, everything will cost you money medically in the US but you might get faster service
- If you are thinking about buying a home find out what the laws are for foreigners on a TN visa… Also find out what the property taxes are as in some states they are VERY high, while the price of the home is attractive.
Alternatively look into low cost of living places in Canada and consider moving within Canada. You may find that there is a lot of difference in the provinces and major cities.
There’s like 4 states I would consider in the US in terms of having similar protections as Canada while having good employment opportunities: Washington, California, New York, and Massachusetts. Unfortunately, these states are all insanely expensive and quickly eat into whatever pay raise you would be getting unless you’re a software engineer or something.
“Alternatively look into low cost of living places in Canada and consider moving within Canada.”
I have a 50k three bedroom house in rural Nova Scotia to sell you lol
Yeah, someone was telling me we’re rich for owning a condo and a cottage that were both the cheapest we found on the market and that were both for sale for months before we bought then… Two people owning 150k worth of property and “we’re rich”…
I went to the US for y2k , and was there for 5 years.
I came home with the exact same amount of money as I had when I left. And I also got a deep understanding for the absolute depths of cruel poverty in the US and for safety nets they don’t have.
Do it. You’ll never be the same, and you’ll really appreciate Canada better.
What did you do there, if you don’t mind me asking?
I continued the work to build and maintain the “one true Unix” ;-) and a Linux side project until we sued IBM so they destroyed us.
So. Nerdy IT stuff that today we’d outsource and work remotely back here, but in 2k required working onsite in beautiful 2-person offices with closable doors, visual privacy, and a view of a happy groundhog most days.
Nicely phrased.
Canadian’s thinking
What ABOUT our thinking? #l2s
Honestly, I’d just stick with the TN. With how easy a TN is to get, the only real advantage of a Green Card is if you plan on being unemployed in the US (which you don’t, because you’re in the US for the money like everyone else).
Though FWIW TN should allow you to work in the US anyway, so I’m not sure why they’re only offering GC for relocation.
Be very careful about the strong USD, because things are more expensive in the US and they’re often of lower quality for the same price. You won’t feel richer unless you save a bunch of USD and move back to Canada down the line.
Earning CAD and spending CAD ~= Earning USD and spending USD
Earning USD and spending CAD is ideal
No way. I moved here from there (I’m Canadian now!) and every day I’m gladder I got out.
I’d probably make more money there, but there are things I value more than money and my life is significantly better in Toronto than it ever was in any of the three states I lived in.
What do you value more specifically about Canada?
I’m not sure how to describe it beyond saying life feels a lot less confrontational here in Canada, even living in the largest city in the country.
Obviously there are problems here, but it feels much more like an actual society than a collection of people who happen to live near each other.
It’s not even about healthcare or anything specific, those are just symptoms IMO. It’s a larger philosophical difference between the countries
Exact same boat. US -> Canada. USA scares the shit out of me. Infinitely happier, even with the reduced buying power.
I used to live in Wisconsin, close enough to Chicago to go on day or weekend trips often. I absolutely love Chicago, it’s a great city to visit, but I’ll never forget going to the Field Museum with my parents once and seeing signs warning against bringing guns into the building.
The reminders that you live in a violent society are always there, even in the most innocent of places. I’d rather have to save up longer to buy a new laptop or only have good pineapple for a few months in the summer than live that way.
The real cheat code is to work for a US company (and get paid in USD), yet live in Canada (and have expenses in CAD).
My bro’s VPN stopped working from his Canadian office, and that was his first clue that he was being laid-off from his American company.
I don’t need the added cash and crushing worry. Lagom.
That’s what I do.
Do you get similar promotions?
Yup. There’s no difference in progression up the corporate ladder.
Any issues tax wise? I will be doing that starting in August.
It really depends on how you’re paid. I’m paid through a Canadian payroll entity so all taxes are sorted properly with the CRA.
The only thing I’ve got to be aware of tax wise is maintaining my Canadian tax residency… which means being physically on Canada at least 6 months of the year.
Current plan is for them to make me a contractor to simplify things on their end. I would prefer not to do that, but if that is what it takes to make the move possible then I will deal with the fallout.
That’s pretty common for companies that don’t have a payroll entity in a particular country. A lot of startups do this and slowly add payroll in countries that have a larger or growing number of employees.
There isn’t much for fallout. You will have to set aside $$ for CRA - either prepay into your CRA account on a quarterly basis or put money aside each month in an account you NEVER touch until tax time. It’s not too hard to guestimate your taxes owed.
You will have to keep all receipts - you can claim quite a lot as a contractor. I’d recommend also hiring an accountant. It won’t cost you that much - maybe around $500 if you are organized and make things easy by tracking things in a spreadsheet or personal accounting program.
You typically won’t get benefits… but most companies will top up a fixed amount per month to allow for what you’d usually get as an employee.
If they pay you through a Canadian subsidiary then it’s no trouble, if you’re paid by the American branch itself you might have to file taxes in the USA along with Canada, I would check with an accountant how your specific situation works because there’s loads of different situations and you don’t know if the person you’re asking is in the same as yours.
Thought about it very seriously for a long time. I did grad school for planetary science and there’s almost no market for that degree in Canada. But in order to work in the US in the space program, you need permanent residency in order to even have a crack at getting security clearance.
Had $10k US set aside for the immigration lawyer. Started interviewing at new space startups in 2015.
Then I was in Seattle for an interview and it was too expensive to get a hotel near the company. Since I had a car rental, I took a hotel an hour south – a roadaide hotel for $200/night. Can’t be that bad for $200, right? Got there and it was kind of shitty. Being if an adventurous sort, I went outside and sat in front of my room in the evening and chatted with the locals – the hotel was full of people on the dole for various reasons. Every single one of them was a republican. They all thought Obama was coming for their guns. They railed against anything socialist while, ironically, being the absolute dregs of society and we’re wholly supported by said system. I couldn’t understand it. This isn’t the hip Seattle I was expecting…
Then 2016 happened and I said “hmm, maybe I’ll wait.” Then the child detention thing happened and I said “I kind of feel like I am trying to immigrate to Germany in 1936…” and I took a look at myself. I decided to use that money as a downpayment on a house in Winnipeg and start a scientific equipment business. I’m not making instruments for spacecraft, but close enough. At least I’m no von Braun.
Very cool story. Thank you for sharing.
I did as a Software Engineer. No winter (in California) and 3x more money working stateside! The worst part is being so far from my family :(
But… as much as I love Canada I also love America and now I get to have two countries 💜!!
So you’re still in California?
