The study made some strong remarks about the kind of people who would modify their car’s exhaust. If psychopathy and sadism aren’t bad enough, apparently loud truck owners would do even worse.
- A professor in Ontario, Canada, has released results of a study of people’s attitudes toward loud vehicles.
- Having asked undergraduate business students whether they think such vehicles are “cool,” the result, not totally surprisingly, was that many of them do.
- Respondents also scored high on the “psychopathy and sadism” scale, but the study was only for cars. Truck and motorcycle owners, the study suggests, might score even worse.
A new study by Western University in Ontario says that if you’ve got a car with a modified exhaust system, odds are you’re a guy and probably also psychotic and sadistic. Slapping a Cherry Bomb glasspack on your Monte Carlo doesn’t (necessarily) mean you’re a Ted Bundy–level psycho, but the data someone points to a personality that enjoys inflicting unpleasantness on others. The study—catchily titled, “A desire for a loud car with a modified muffler is predicted by being a man and higher scores on psychopathy and sadism”—was commissioned by professor Julie Aitken Schermer, who heard many a loud car in London, Ontario, and wondered what kind of person would want their car exhaust to be louder than normal. She probably could have saved a lot of time by simply looking up Cadillac Escalade-V registrations. …
What a dumb article and subsequent post. I’m anti-carbrain too, but this copium is at OD levels
The article was funny; the study was actually the kinda dumb part.
If you can’t be good, be loud.
Were we expecting anything good from people whose only contribution to the artistic output of humanity is “HEAR MY CAR FART”?
Yes, going out of the way to make something more annoying by imposing loud sounds on everyone around them is like yelling at everyone.
It’s loud when you have to release the back pressure of an exhaust with mufflers to scavenge more power by using a less restrictive muffler and it’s actually more fuel efficient. If you have a large turbo, you can actually overheat your engine because there’s not enough flow to release the heat. Sometimes people are assholes and like loud mufflers without having tune or supporting modifications. Harleys are loud just to be loud and have no power. Supercars are loud because they have more power. Hyundai Ionic N electric vehicles are loud just to be loud and pretend it’s an internal combustion engine.
And importantly, it shows that you are not phased by the discomfort you are inflicting on others
Yep, next do the people that listen to music on the train without headphones.
In my experience most of them enjoy discomforting and upsetting others. It gives them some kind of ego high.
“I annoy, therefore I exist” - Annoying assholes
Where I work, I have to talk to customers through a window using a mic/speaker, and I have a customer who has like 50 “too loud? too bad!” stickers plastered all over his car, and he used to constantly show up blaring music at absurd volumes.
He’d walk up to my window and I couldn’t hear a damn word he said, and when I told him I couldn’t hear him he couldn’t fucking hear me either. It took several visits before he learned to turn his music down before coming to my window. He’s the dumbest customer I’ve ever had, I stg.
There were also a couple times where a customer actually opened his door and turned his music off themselves so that they could tell me what they wanted.
Real life trolls then? Makes sense to me.
Probably because it’s pleasant and not discomfortable. You all being annoyed by something that pleases me doesn’t mean I’m any particular label. Quit trying to control others by categorizing them and dictating how they’re to be treated based on your labels.
*uncomfortable
Yep, you sound like someone with a modified exhaust all right. When I went to the auto shop to get my muffler replaced, as it had rusted a hole in it, auto shop owner asks what kind of muffler I want on it, with hesitancy. When I said I wanted a stock OEM, he smiled broadly, and while I waited for them to finish up we made fun of people who wanted attention so badly they acted like assholes for it.
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How do you go through life without grasping the very simple concept that your freedom ends where another person’s freedom begins. No it shouldn’t be tolerated that someone shits up the place with sounds they enjoy to the discomfort of everyone else.
So your freedom means I’m an asshole for liking a sound. Roger dodger!
I think there’s a misunderstanding. Sure it’s fine to like engine sounds, and it’s ok to go loud in an acceptable setting (motor show, race). What almost everybody in this thread is taking issue with are drivers who modify their mufflers and drive around on public roads.
fuck me, you again. you’re absolutely one of the dumbest pieces of shit on here. Selfish cunt who should have his tubes tied and left in a leper colony somewhere. jfc you’re such a stupid piece of shit. 🤦♂️
They say psychopathy and narcissism go hand in hand.
Assuming you’re being genuine, then you’ve just told us that you lack empathy, and your insistence that the above scientific study is merely others being judgmental and ‘labeling’ tells us where you stand intellectually.
I do hope you’re merely a C- level troll. If not, then good luck in life.removed by mod
The right to swing your arm ends where it would hit my face. You like the vroom vroom noises? Nobody cares. You make the vroom vroom noises in the middle of a neighborhood with a bunch of bystanders around who were minding their own business? Everyone cares. I experience physical pain from loud noises. They don’t just annoy me. They HURT. I’m that sensitive to noise. Keep your roaring shitbucket out in the boonies where the sound won’t knock me over.
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What is the article about my dude?
You got an issue if I “like” throwing trash in your yard?
What’s wrong? Just let me live my life man.
Speaking of force - my dipshit neighbor who just moved in loves his loud vehicle. I guess living close to a busy street and an international airport doesn’t provide enough noise for him.
Been thinking his gas tank is a bit low on sugar. Should I help him out?
Please show me where I told you that you cannot like what you purport to like.
Being told that liking something that irritates or harms others without regard for others is indicative of being an antisocial narcissist is not the same as being told you cannot like that thing.
What could possibly cause you to equivocate negative perceptions as being told you can’t prefer something?
ooh, sounds like somebody doesn’t know fuck all about anything, and is a reactionary! good luck being your miserable self, you’re gonna hate it
there are better ways. find them
There’s a Southpark episode that redefines a certain word to describe people like you.
Check out S13E12 - The F Word to see how the world sees you.
Keep your labels to yourself. Didn’t your mother teach you not to call names?
Didn’t your mother teach you that it’s rude to be excessively loud and bother everyone you’re around?
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Ah, so your mother was an inconsiderate asshole too. I guess the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Truck and motorcycle owners, the study suggests, might score even worse.
Lol you’re pretending you don’t know that others are made uncomfortable by these sounds while also admitting you know. Whoops.
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Your argument seems to be that it somehow matters why you are being a human shitstain. To the rest of the world, there is no difference whether you like being a shitstain for some internal motivation, or whether it is explicitly for the discomfort of others.
In either case, move out to the fucking woods, and you can have your primal pea brain be stimulated by things that go vroom vroom for all I fucking care.
I’m not moving away from what I like because you don’t like it ya fuckin idiot. I like the sounds. You don’t. Go find your peace. I like a sound and you like ranking people by what makes them happy. You’re the asshole.
You don’t really seem to understand the argument. It’s OK tho. And not your fault. Some people simply don’t have the ability to understand, or care about something like the common good. As long as there are few enough village idiots like you, society sort of works. It sucks a little bit more, because your little stupid preference is to the detriment to everyone around you. Describing that trait as a human shit-stain, seems pretty spot on to me.
It would be the same as if you had a thing for smearing shit on every lamp-post. We sort of tolerate the village idiot. It’d be nice if he had the capacity to perhaps… not go around and do that stuff, because, how important is it reaaally to go around smearing shit on things? I suppose we’ll never know. It seems pretty important to him.
Also, “go find your peace”, is such a fantastic dumb thing to say, I almost want to applaud you. What does that even mean? It is peaceful, except when little Dumb Dumb returns home from their usually like-minded friends at 2AM and still thinks its a good idea to make vroom vroom noises. It’s not a big surprise tho. They weren’t raised properly, or don’t have the social intelligence to understand why it’d be annoying at 2PM, so why would it be any different at 2AM?
I’d happily go find my peace. It… and this might blow your little mind… the level of “peace”, in society, is at the behest of the weakest little shitstains’ comfort level. You, and those like you, are the low bar.
Some time ago, I’d attribute it as being selfish. You don’t mind everyone else being annoyed. You simply consider yourself more important. People who work night shifts and get woken up during the day, or just people getting woken up during the night. Anyone with kids, etc. It’s just not considered… Now, I’m more convinced this isn’t so much being selfish… as just … either just having a shit parent(s) who didn’t teach you basic decency, so you simply don’t know. Which, isn’t your fault. The other explanation is that you might just be a little bit sociopathic, so you don’t have the capacity to understand it. Which… is also not your fault. The third explanation is that the lightbulb never shone bright enough to notice anyone around you… you like the vrom vrom, and everything else is just a bit too complicated, and anyone who tries to take away your vroom vrom is stoopid. Also, not your fault.
If it smells like a shit stain, looks like a shit stain, and talks like one… I guess it doesn’t matter which explanation fits you. It doesn’t even matter if you understand why. You simply are. Whether you want to do something about it, meh, odds are you won’t. But if you think you are anything other than a piece of shit that annoys everyone around you… lol. You don’t really understand much of anything, and I’m a bit sorry for anyone decent in your life.
Cheers. Be better. Shouldn’t be hard. The bar is fucking low.
To prove me wrong, you avoid addressing the entire actual topic: that these sounds are inconsiderate and bothersome to nearly everyone else.
Great argument
Looks like someone didn’t read the title.
You do know being exposed to constant loud noises has a measurable impact on mental health?
No one’s saying “motor noises are icky!” (they are, but that’s besides the point.)
We’re saying that imposing such a loud noise on everyone around you is an asshole move. I’m sure most of us would be saying the same about people on bicycles blasting their music through a shitty speaker. Revving your motor in a residential area is the vehicular equivalent of going to the library and yelling at the top of your lungs.
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this asshole is all over Lemmy waving his micropenis as loud as he can. If karma was a thing on Lemmy like Reddit, he’d be shadowbanned a long time ago.
Time to include this in the DSM
Edit: apparently the paper is more than a year old. And here is the doi to the original paper:
https://doi.org/10.5114%2FCIPP%2F162006Eh, the study design seems sus. It seems she hypothesized that such people may be psychopathic and lead with a survey which confirmed as such. Survey design is super tricky for psychological research.
Moreover, the students responding to the survey are not the car owners proper, instead these students are car enthusiasts. The level of car modding or gear headedness of the responder is required to lend credence to the study results.
Could someone comment on the effect sizes observed in the study? I can’t look it up right now. But the above are just my initial impressions, so happy to be corrected
You’re right to be sceptical. The paper is poorly written, and overstates many of the results they found. The correlations identified between the car score and the dark tetrad scores aren’t really very high, the highest is 0.51! They produced a regression model and deduced that because the F-test had a low p value that the dark tetrad scores predicted the car score. The F-test, for clarity, determines if a model predicts the response variable better than a model with no explanatory variables.
Also worth noting that there were stronger correlations between the explanatory variables than for any of the explanatory variables with the response. They should have included interactions in their regression model to incorporate this, or even better tried a set of models and compared them with ANOVA or similar. As is it’s impossible to say if the model they found is actually very good. It only explains 29% of the variance which… Well, it’s a statistic which is better for comparing models, but it suggests quite clearly they most of the variance in the car score is not explained but the dark tetrad scores.
There’s a smattering of evidence in here that there’s some statistical link between the scores, but it’s not been well explored or presented, and there are issues with the statistical approach. Based on some comments in the discussion section I’d agree with your suggestion that the author is simply trying to confirm their hypothesis.
What are you talking about? A correlation coefficient of .5 is in the ballpark of or bigger than the correlation between human height and weight. I wouldn’t be surprised if the bottleneck isn’t in the reliability of the measurement.
Unmodeled interactions here also would only be able to suppress the explained variance - adding them in could only increase the R-squared!
"They produced a regression model and deduced that because the F-test had a low p value that the dark tetrad scores predicted the car score. The F-test, for clarity, determines if a model predicts the response variable better than a model with no explanatory variables. "
Yes, when you wanna know if a variable predicts another, one thing you can do is that you compare how well a model with the predictor included fares compared to a model without the predictor. One way of doing that is by using an F-test.
In case your 101 course hasn’t covered that yet: F-tests are also commonly used when performing an analysis of variance.
“As is it’s impossible to say if the model they found is actually very good.”
You say that after quoting explained variance, which is much more useful (could use confidence intervals… but significance substitutes here a little) in this context for judging how good a model is in absolute terms than some model comparison would be (which could give relative goodness).
Your criticism amounts to “maybe they are understating the evidence”.
Do you think the paper drew sensible conclusions, or do you just not like my arguments?
A correlation coefficient of .5 is in the ballpark of or bigger than the correlation between human height and weight. I wouldn’t be surprised if the bottleneck isn’t in the reliability of the measurement.
This is fair enough, my background is not in social research so to me 0.5 is a moderate correlation. Not sure what you mean by the ‘bottleneck’ here, are you suggesting that the correlations could be higher with a different survey?
Unmodeled interactions here also would only be able to suppress the explained variance - adding them in could only increase the R-squared!
Given that the explanatory variables are in some cases more strongly correlated with each other than the response, do you think the model without interactions is likely to be an appropriate way to analyse the relationship between the response and the explanatory variables? It doesn’t at all make sense to me to do one single regression model and say “The F test says this is a good model, so the explanatory variables explain the response”, especially with a relatively low R^2, and given the fact that there is evidence of multicollinearity presented alongside!
The paper presents the fact that they have done a regression model with a few good significances without any real analysis of if that model is good. We don’t see if the relationships are linear, we don’t see if the model assumptions are met. Just doing a regression is not enough, in my opinion.
In case your 101 course hasn’t covered that yet:
There’s no need to be rude. It’s perfectly acceptable to disagree with me, but you could do it politely.
F-tests are also commonly used when performing an analysis of variance.
Yes, I’m well aware, although I’m not sure what your point is. They haven’t done any analysis of variance.
As is it’s impossible to say if the model they found is actually very good.
You say that after quoting explained variance, which is much more useful (could use confidence intervals… but significance substitutes here a little) in this context for judging how good a model is in absolute terms than some model comparison would be (which could give relative goodness).
My point is that they haven’t made any effort to find a model that best fits the data, they have just taken all the available variables, smacked them into python or R or whatever, and written down the statistics it spits out. There’s no consideration in the paper given to interpreting the statistics, or to confirming their validity.
From the study:
Although the regression weight for age was not significant, the direction was negative, suggesting greater endorsement for the car items for the younger sample.
Not only was p-value for age clearly not significant, the confidence interval for the coefficient was [–.21, .17]… This includes 0 ffs! There’s no evidence here that there is greater endorsement of the car items in younger respondents. Why was age even included in the model in the first place, given that the correlation was near 0?
Like I said - there is some evidence here of an interaction, I’ll concede that in context the correlation isn’t bad for 2 of the dark tetrad items, Wild and Crafty, but the analysis they have used to present this information is not well thought out or presented. Personally I don’t think that a linear regression model is even the right way to analyse the data they have, I especially don’t think this regression model is a good way to analyse the data.
I’m only going to bother reading the first paragraph of your comment since you didn’t read much either.
Their hypothesis before the experiment was that people who liked loud mufflers were NARCISSISTIC, not PSYCHOTIC. The results disproved their hypothesis and supported the new one.
To elaborate, they expected that these people liked attracting attention and having people looking at them, thinking about them. What they found was that this wasn’t the motivation, and rather, these people wanted to hurt others. They knew what they were doing was unpleasant and undesired, and that is why they do it. It’s very different than narcissists, who want to be liked and don’t go out of their way to hurt people for their own enjoyment.
the present study predicted that each dark trait would positively correlate with the loud car scale aggregate, and because typically modifications to vehicles represent criminal activity, it was predicted that sadism and psychopathy would positively predict the aggregate of the car items.
To me it seems like they’re saying “predicted” when they meant “hypothesized”.
Here are the questions they used:
The items were: “My car is an extension of what makes me a person”, “I think loud cars are really cool”, and “If I could, I would make my car louder with muffler modification”. Items were responded to using the following response key: 1 – strongly disagree, 2 – somewhat disagree, 3 – neither agree nor disagree, 4 – somewhat agree, or 5 – strongly agree.
I think what’s missing from the survey design are questions which explore intent, like “I would use a loud muffler when people are sleeping”. I also think the “makes me a person” and “really cool” wording is ambiguous because the answers are not necessarily related to one’s personality. For example “makes me a person” could refer to maybe “helps me achieve survival” to someone, and “really cool” could mean anything from deep interest hobby to expressing admiration of other people’s abilities.
The other issue is that their sample is only business students, so it’s not representative of the entire male population.
I think maybe they released this pilot to gather initial impressions, so it makes sense to be critical and make suggestions for improvements
Edit I think another issue is that people in general don’t understand the disposition of the loud muffler enthusiast, and the approach in this study is starting out with the assumption that the motivation is dark tetrad.
Iron Oxide says I’m fucking poor not a psypchopath or sadist.
I hate bullshit “studies” like this, especially from people in academia, that are half assed.
Do you LIKE having the loud exhaust though? Or are you just stuck with it? It seems to me that you didn’t understand the study.
Little bit of both and yes, I understand this study wasn’t great and has lots of holes in it, like peoples exhaust systems.
little bit of both
Well then that’s correlated with negative traits. Hope you don’t have them.
The correlation is poor at best. I would take it with a grain of salt as they say.
That’s not you modifying your car.
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BWOP BWOP BWOP BWOP BWOP
Look they think we’re so cool! They’re all looking at us!
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But now we can say “Scientifically speaking, they are attention seeking morons.”
No! They are not! That was the exact hypothesis that was DISPROVEN. They are not attention seeking, they are sadistic and trying to hurt people. They don’t want people’s attention, they want people to suffer.
dat fastback
I feel that exhaust notes are necessary feedback for drivers so they have a more visceral knowledge of what their car is doing. They could be piped into the car and not audible outside, but I think people would drive better with it.
it feels like you’re promoting carbon monoxide poisoning.
You can hear the exhaust in most cars without having it pumped into the passenger cabin.
It’s more about providing another form of feedback to the driver about what the car is doing, rather than divorcing them from the notion that they’re operating a two-ton machine going 70mph with a tank full of flammable liquid in the back.
in short: no.
THE WHISTLE GOES WOOOOOOO https://youtu.be/C4QMffMAwAU?si=Ui-LBJEdYu-7x8cD
That’s only in the morning, you’re supposed to be having breakfast or something is like an alarm clock wooo wooo.
It’s probably been close to 20 years since I saw this, but that’s from memory and I suck at movie quotes.
RRAAAHBBBLUBLUBLUBLUB
Obligatory “Loud ass car” by Wolves of Glendale.
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Like whatever you want, just not to the point where your illegal exhaust wakes up an entire neighborhood. How on earth are you even defending being deliberately loud and obnoxious?
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Things can have unintended consequences, part of being an adult human being is understanding that.
Driving a loud car at night can easily wake people up. And if you’re going fast and loud through a neighbourhood, then it’s a whole neighborhood you’re waking
That’s a lot of “if” that has nothing to do with the title of the post. The post here has decided that I’m a psychopath for what I like.
That’s fair, you can totally criticise the lack of nuance in the post title. You can like the sound of an exhaust, I don’t care.
But you must at least kinda see that it affects people around you too? If you don’t you’re kinda proving the post title right
The post title says absolutely nothing about imposing.
The post is literally about people who modify their exhausts to be louder. Are you suggesting people modify their exhausts then drive to a remote location to listen to it on their own?
Also, what exactly are you defending? The right to have illegal exhausts? Or just liking the sound not making you psychotic?
Y’all in here dictating wrong think.
It was a genuine question dude
You: why would anyone not want this
Random commenter: here’s a reason why I wouldn’t want this
You: OmG wHy WoUlD yOu SaY tHaT
You can have your loud car as long as it’s faaaaaaaaaaaaar away from me and my eardrums. Don’t make me listen to your bullshit.
I don’t even have a car. Take your eardrums somewhere quiet. Nobody is making your life decisions.
Take your eardrums somewhere quiet. Nobody is making your life decisions.
-Man who is predicted to have higher scores on psychopathy and sadism
Noise pollution causes, among other things:
- Hearing Loss
- Cardiovascular Issues
- Sleep Disturbances
- Mental Health Problems
- Other Health Issues
- Wildlife Disruption
- Reduced Quality of Life because it makes being outside hard to enjoy
How about we reduce it by making these exhausts illegal, for public health, instead of allowing assholes to dictate everything about society and poison our minds and bodies? This is like saying “why prevent someone from dumping garbage into local waterways for fun, just move somewhere with less pollution”.
Nobody likes drinking garbage. Most people like exciting sounds.
Most people like exciting sounds.
No. The overwhelming majority of people hate loud exhausts. Here’s a poll from the first result I found on Google.
You also just ignored almost everything I said about health-related shit, so clearly you don’t care which lines up with the psychopathy shit from the article lmaoooo
