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Im not American but doesnt everyone usually vote to keep the worst out not the best one in?
Wasn’t the case with Obama, as one easy example
I used to mainly vote third party as a protest vote for both sides to do better. Didn’t matter the party, really.
I voted for Obama out of genuinely wanting him in office. I thought he was decent overall but he did disappoint me.
I voted for Biden purely to keep Trump out of office. Even so, I think Biden has largely been a better President than Obama was, though the Gaza/Israel thing is really testing that. I would love to have a more progressive choice, but any time I am disappointed in Biden, I just remind myself the alternative and I would crawl across a mile of broken glass to vote for him.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
If you mean “unique in 240 years of American history” I agree.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
I worry that it’s the new baseline.
New baseline?! I have often gotten the feeling that you are an adolescent. It would explain so many of the shitty hot takes and bad ideas. But this really kind of solidifies it. Being young is not an insult however. We all were at one point in time. And we all matured and grew up.
This is so not a new thing though. Trump is literally Reagan part 2. And that’s just within the last 50 years that’s not even mentioning Nixon or all the others that came before him. The truth is this is been the way it has always been. It sucks that so much of the energy of youth is wasted tilting at windmills. Instead of actually understanding and working to improve things. Actively demotivating non Republican voters in an effort to get the Republican candidate to win. That sounds like a real good way to improve things.
As someone who lived through the Reagan administrations, Trump is far, far worse than Reagan part 2.
Granted there are similarities such as Reagan ignoring AIDS and Trump ignoring Covid, but at the same time, Reagan was far more likeable while committing actual war crimes in the Iran/Contra affair, and having the CIA dealing cocaine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking
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So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
as will be the next, and the one after that, as well as all of the ones following; meanwhile you’ll continue crawling over broken glass and giving a pass to ongoing genocides because you believe it’s better than the alternative somehow without realizing there’s one alternative.
no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers and 2 of those have been placed before and you’re told that you must select one.
Told? It’s just math. If you want to change things, you have to either do it from within an existing party or wait for an existing party to implode and then maybe there is an opportunity for change.
I’m fifty. I spent a lot of fucking elections wasting my vote on third parties, thinking I was sending some kind of message or making things better, but here we are. I wasted every single vote prior to 2008. Would anything be different if I hadn’t? No. Would anything be different if a bunch of people hadn’t? I don’t know. Maybe.
as i said before: no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers, we know they’re wrong because we’ve tried them and things don’t get better (and we sometimes try it again with the same results); we’re only allowed to pick from among those wrong answers only.
trying anything otherwise might also be a wrong answer; but we will never know because there are plenty who will shame you if don’t pick the same wrong answer they do.
Fair. Government is hard. There is no such thing as a right answer. Just shit that we find out later didn’t work. I’m not happy with either of the two parties; I don’t really believe in parties anyway. But here we are.
Fight the good fight, my friend, but just don’t let fascism take us. My grandfather fought against the fascists in WW2, and here I am doing the same (though admittedly with way less personal risk) 80 years later. I don’t like it, but it is what it is.
Not true at all. Some of them are actively trying to get the worst one in.
Well, millennials voted for Obama because he genuinely inspired hope. Then we saw how he governed and it killed our entire generation’s sense of hope.
Then you saw Biden being a better president than Obama because he was more experienced. Maybe the answer here is to pay more attention to what a politician does than what he says
LOL, if that were answer, then Biden would be judged on the anti-drug legislation he spearheaded in '84, '86, and '88 that gave us expanded sentences for possession, civil asset forfeiture, and the racist sentencing disparity between crack and powdered cocaine. He’d also be judged on the 1994 crime bill he co-authored that led to the largest increase in mass incarceration in 40 years. Oh, and let’s not forget the time he teamed up with Robert Byrd, a Senator and Klansman, to pass anti-bussing legislation. Point is, Biden has benefited a lot from people listening to what he says and forgetting what he’s done.
Biden has benefited a lot from people listening to what he says and forgetting what he’s done.
You mean forgetting that Biden has the lowest unemployment rate since the 1960’s? Forgetting that he raised the minimum tax rate on corporations from 0% to 15%? Forgetting that that every few days there is a record stock market high? That nobody could have handled Covid or Ukraine better?
Biden is the victim of a lot of people forgetting what he’s done.
I don’t think you understand my point. You made a comment about how I should judge politicians on their actions, not their words. So I pointed out that Biden’s actions before his election included anti-bussing legislation, several racist drug bills, and the worst expansion of the prison-industrial complex in history. I’m glad you’re happy with Biden’s performance as President, but you clearly ignored a lot of what he did as a Senator and listened to what he said as a presidential candidate (or you really like racist drug policies and mass incarceration).
I couldn’t care less what Biden did in the 1970’s. It is ridiculous to call him “racist”, as he was the running mate of the first black president.
Your original comment:
Maybe the answer here is to pay more attention to what a politician does than what he says.
Your current comment:
I couldn’t care less what Biden did in the 1970’s.
Maybe the answer here is to not leave condescending replies to other people’s comments if you’re just going to completely contradict yourself and negate your own point.
40% of voting-eligible Americans simply don’t vote at all.
I mean Boomer Democrat voters could sit down and ask themselves “Is voting for a geriatric establishment white man really the move in the 2020 primaries if we want those “young” (read: anyone under the age of 65) voters to engage in politics”
But they won’t because even though they vote Democrat they’re still Boomers. And Boomers can’t handle not getting their way.
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What a pathetic defense for Boomers being selfish shit bags.
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But then I guess you wouuldn’t get to be the perpetual victim and wah wah wah, the world is so mean.
This is a tacit defense of Boomers.
Kinda… mostly because the best ones never become candidates. The parties push the candidates that serve the interests of the partys donors then try to convince the voters they actually care.
Most elections are a choice between two mediocre candidates.
With the current state of the Republican party, it’s truly about getting more of them out of power. Unless you’re a white Christofascist bootlicker.
If you have a non proportional system where parties don’t make coalitions, there’s no other choice (unless you live in a region where a specific party always wins with a majority of the votes, then do what you want).
“A majority of voters backing Biden are mostly motivated by the greatest threat America and the western world has ever faced.”
Goddamn right…I’m got down with the dumbass ship in Florida but I’m cancelling out one vote for the end of America…
Biden
a Catholic president with a prosecutor for a vice president
the last four years have consisted of abortion rights being stripped, Cop City built to train police to subjugate citizens by razing a national forest, workers protested and were told to stop on threat of their livelihood with no change in worker’s rights or higher wages, immigration policies have deteriorated, food cost are astronomical and inflation is rising on everything without stopping, journalism is dying due to corporate buyout with journalist being silenced
but Biden who is a career politician going on almost half a century now who is running against a career donor is progressive
when was he ever progressive? what about Harris? have either of these two been progressive at any point in their careers?
Biden worked on laws and policies that would put people in jail and Harris worked her career enforcing such laws
If a Catholic and a Prosecutor with a resume of putting the citizens in their proper places is progressive then yes we are truly fisted in the ass and gaped with no chance in hell
Now do Trump.
Trump: He’s also evil and I’m not voting for him either.
Cop city? How the hell are you managing to make your mental stretch that wide that you include local Atlanta issues to criticize president biden?
Biden during the last election said he would try to get the police under control and he ran on a green platform
cops getting a whole city built for them so they can train to keep citizens subjugated while razing a national forest to do so with Biden not saying or even trying to do anything not even making it a talking point during speeches this current election
not to mention this current policing and the current environmental issues that need attention in this country are in part due to bills he had a hand in such as the crime bill
so yes him as president and before that as a career politician do criticize Biden
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No need to comment on Republicans, they are open with their racism and bigotry. Democrats on the other hand prefer to keep theirs covert while their supporters constantly try and whitewash their history or completely ignore it
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Atlanta is 1 of nearly 100 cop cities being built. All of which will be trained by the IDF
You are laughably misinformed.
Shit take
I know I am. I mean it it’s not like I would vote for any Republican because I have yet to see one that lines up with my philosophy. And since we have a shitty to party system, I can’t reasonably expect to be able to have a voice by voting for anybody else, so I have no choice but to compromise by voting for the lesser of two bastards. We seriously need ranked voting in this country so badly. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s so much better than what we’re doing now.
and that is why we the people will lose this election as well
we either stop supporting bad candidates from any party or we get stuck with them
why the fuck does any want four years of Trump or Biden is wild
Both are too old and both are set on taking us way back in time
already lost women’s rights and worker’s rights
how much do y’all want to lose?
guess we will see in the next four years what we get to lose next already getting to the point crossing state borders is difficult
This guy is going to “both sides” himself into a right-wing dictatorship.
what state border is difficult to cross, honest question
I guess Alaska. Or hawaii. Lol
there hasn’t been an election where it wasn’t choosing the least bad person.
I was genuinely excited for Obama. I strongly supported him during the primary, was thrilled he won, and was very hopeful when he was elected.
Quickly disappointed not long after, but at least when he was first being elected it was definitely a “I really like this candidate and am hopeful they’ll live up to their promises.”
I think as candidates Clinton, W. Bush, Gore, Obama, McCain had sincere support overshadowing the need to stop some particular bad person instead. As misguided as I think it is, Trump voters also are all about Trump less than stopping Biden. I can’t personally remember a race where “the other side must be stopped” as pretty much the sole consideration among the voters until the Trump era.
Yes, third party candidates are dismissed in a self fulfilling prophecy, but also that reality drives most reasonable would-be third party candidates to one of the viable parties, generally leaving third party candidates that wouldn’t be that popular anyway.
I can’t personally remember a race where “the other side must be stopped” as pretty much the sole consideration among the voters until the Trump era.
The Kerry '04 campaign might as well have been “Anyone But Bush”, and it went down in flames as a result. Every time Kerry was pressed on any kind of progressive-ish sounding issue, he ran to the right for fear of spooking the moderate centrist voter. Every time Bush was pressed on his conservative bona fides, he just pointed to 9/11 and said “I kept us safe” and the news media ate that shit up.
In the end, you had the Strong MAGA Security candidate in Bush and the flaky swish liberal candidate in Kerry. Kerry lost by 3M votes and 35 ECs, dwarfing the Bush/Gore defeat. Then he slunk back to the Senate and triangulated votes with John McCain for the next eight years.
I think as candidates Clinton, W. Bush, Gore, Obama, McCain had sincere support
Joe Biden was better and more progressive than literally every one of those guys. It’s not Biden’s fault that you haven’t been paying much attention.
I can’t personally remember a race where “the other side must be stopped” as pretty much the sole consideration among the voters until the Trump era.
I can’t personally remember a president who has achieved more progress than Joe Biden, and I can remember every president starting with Nixon.
Note I didn’t claim the were progressive or that Biden did nothing, I’m saying voter sentiment is basically “not trump” rather than “for Biden”. I’ll accept that Kerry was in a similar position of being the “not W” candidate, but other than that I can’t think of a candidate whose popular support was so much more about “the other guy” than the candidate themselves.
WTF? Dude it is not Bidens fault that Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump has been ranked as the worst president in history by historians. That means there are lots of “Biden Republicans”. But Dems would be voting for Biden over any Republicrat.
As long as you don’t see Palestinians/Arabs as people, I agree.
You mean the people that Biden got the UN Security Council to pass a cease fire resolution for?
Arabs are the people who aren’t doing shit for Gaza. How Egypt/Lebanon/Turkey etc aren’t taking in refuges from Gaza and shipping tons of aid in or even offering peacekeepers? Any or all of those countries could have easily done more than Biden but they didn’t lift a finger. Looks like Arabs don’t care anything at all about Palestinians judging by their actions.
Obama’s first go around felt pretty legit.
One day the USA will get a president that has more to offer than not being his opponent.
No they won’t, their lesser evil bullshit will keep creating a progressively larger evil. So there will always be a boogeyman to sell.
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Like increasing the minimum tax on corporations from 0% to 15% while needing 2 Dem senators who later left the party for being too leftwing?
And that day is upon you now.
What if Trump loses and runs in 2028?
If Trump gets a sound thrashing, losing the Republicans seats in the process, the rats will flee the sinking ship.
I have never whole heartedly supported the Democratic candidate (because I’m far more left than any of them have ever been), but I’ve always voted for them, because they’re far better than the other option. This time they’re just so far better than the other option, not because they are any better, but because the other option is so astoundingly worse. So, I guess, welcome to the club.
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime. Again, that’s not saying much, but hey, it’s better than nothing. He’s just killing himself by supporting Israel.
(Repost of my comment from the same article in another community.)
The opinions of Biden seem to be all over the map, which is weird since he is the incumbent, and we all ought to know where he stands. There are lots of people (like you) who see the progressive things he has managed to get accomplished, even with a divided Congress in these past two years. Yet, there are others who perceive him as a right-of-center false choice.
He has always had trouble defining himself, which I think is part of the reason he was a perennial Presidential Primary loser. His stutter didn’t help matters, nor his tendency to go off-script. But Trump’s ascendancy gave him the perfect opportunity to create a definition, even if that definition is “Not Trump”.
This is on purpose. Building confidence is hard. Destroying it is easy. Plenty of domestic and foreign actors are heavily invested in mudding Waters surrounding biden. In hopes of him failing. Their candidates getting elected. Which is turning out even easier for them seeing as our corporate publicly traded media is eagerly assisting them.
The fascists will fall in line and vote for whoever they’re offered. Simply because they’ve been told the opposite would be worse. Unfortunately the Democratic party is much more a coalition party of many disparate groups many who don’t see a lot of representation. Preferring to fall in love rather than falling in line. And they are Their Own Worst Enemy because of that.
And even though it’s a low bar. If I didn’t Administration has delivered some of the biggest wins for labor in the last 100 years. He certainly not perfect. But the alternatives are absolutely worse. The question is are we going to be able to get our s*** together and not let ourselves be manipulated again.
There is also a great deal of negative press out regarding Biden. Honestly if you look at policy and accomplishments he’s done quite a lot of good things. It is an uphill battle of course with Congress and the Supreme Court being what they are. We are a big country and it takes constant action to push it to a more equitable place for the majority of us.
Frankly, I think Biden has done a lot to start that push. It will take a lot more though and we could backslide terribly if we don’t keep pushing.
I love how you all ignore all the terrible policy this man voted for as a senator.
I love how you all ignore all the terrible policy this man voted for as a senator.
Like when he was one of the few senators to vote against he first Iraq War in 1993?
Well I guess maybe people change with maturity. He is certainly putting some good people into positions where they can do some good
Yeah I’m sure that comes as a huge comfort to the millions of people who’s lives he ruined with his 1994 stop and frisk crime bill.
So offer a solution. Who has a chance that’s currently in the running to beat Trump in November?
Provide a name or walk away.
No I’m going to keep making it clear anybody who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries over the many superior options is a shit bag.
So we’re cool to bring up the past as a rebuttal to a thing someone has done in the present?
You shit your pants when you were a baby. Should we accuse you of this every day for the rest of your life?
We also used to prescribe cigarettes to asthmatic patients. Wonder why we don’t anymore ?
It’s because we learned to be better at understanding the human body. Essentially… We got smarter. But reading though your comment history- you seem to be regressing, because it seems that every point you bring up is worse than the last.
… I’m sorry. Do you use this defense when you’re talking about Trump or are you just a blatant hypocrite?
Biden is an evil person. Trump is an evil person. You shouldn’t defend either of them.
I use this defense when I see people bring up one’s past to put them back down after they’ve changed.
I use this defense when bad faith clowns try and shit on people in rehab who are trying to turn their lives around.
I use this defense whenever I see people that don’t know what they’re talking about, try and paint eh world as either black or white without even looking at the grey in between.
Your move, chuckles.
Biden hasn’t changed. He’s the same vile evil man he’s always been.
Biden is an evil person. Trump is an evil person
Bernie’s friend Biden is fucking awesome dude. Love the guy! Bernie likes Biden and I’ve never once noticed Bernie to be wrong about anything. The more you slander Biden the more I like Biden.
in that case: here’s bernie calling out biden’s bullshit
Honest motives
Yes, Democrats know this and are taking the opportunity to move to the right.
I mean, yeah.
Only the best current reason. When frump is out of the picture for good we can focus on other things
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Biden is not 2nd worst. Out of the 4-5 candidates running Biden is by far the best.
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You support a regressive Libertarian candidate over the most progressive candidate since FDR. And a Kremlin stooge. And a nutbag billionaire. Got it.
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the most progressive candidate since FDR
by what standard?!
dude literally voted against gay marriage; gays in the military; permanent student loans; advocated against gays in federal service; racial integration; sexual harassment claims; blocked access to non-american social media platform; and blocked americans from affordable electric vehicles.
was it the one law that passed decades after it was no longer an issue and, not only did nothing, but gave bigots legal protection for their bigotry?
dude literally voted against
Presidents do not vote on anything. I said he was the most progressive PRESIDENT since LBJ/FDR.
by what standard?!
Raising taxes on corporations. Wealth inequality is the number 1 problem in the country. Reducing wealth inequality is the biggest thing FDR did. But also: Reducing costs of ACA and Medicare. Increasing access to health care. Lowering prices on drugs thru direct government regulation. Reducing student loans. Action on climate change. Reducing taxes on lower/middle class. That is just some of the obvious stuff.
Also it is no reflection at all on Biden that he happens to be running against the person whom historians have ranked as the worst president in American history. Biden is ranks as 14th best president out of 46.
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/presidents-survey-trump-ranks-last-biden-14th
James Buchanan fans everywhere are overjoyed
You think it will be any better then?
Cant say. Nobody can read the future for good or bad. I just prefer to be optimistic rather than not. All i can say is that the current choices are all there is and, as always, the lesser of two evils is what we have to work with
You know what my main problem with Joe Biden is? I’m 37, he’s what? 79? I’ve been a citizen of the United States longer than he has. He’s spent the last three generations in either congress or the white house, and the people who do that don’t live in the same reality as the rest of us. Too many of the laws outright don’t apply to them, either because there are literal exceptions or “we don’t enforce that on them.” Joe Biden doesn’t know the first fucking thing about being an American because he hasn’t ever actually done it.
Joe Biden doesn’t know the first fucking thing about being an American because he hasn’t ever actually done it.
His family struggled a lot when he grew up in a blue collar town, moved so his dad could find steady work, but still were definitely middle class. Then he worked his way through college and law school.
We can say his decades in Congress and the presidency have corrupted him, but the idea that he hasn’t ever actually been “a real American” (the way you are using it) is an outright lie.
You know who hasn’t? The billionaire who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, schooled with other wealthy people in NYC, then was gifted a huge amount of to start, and then spent their entire career screwing the blue collar worker to line his own pockets.
If Biden has never been a “real American,” then how do we describe Trump’s lack of real Americaness?
“You think Hitler’s bad, what do you call Satan?!?! Checkmate!”
Yes, that was clearly my argument. Good reading comprehension there and not some mindless kneejerk “muh both sides” response.
lmao his family “suffered” because his father was a fraudster that tried to get rich on scamming the US government during the war. The stories about his blue-collar roots are as real as Kim Jong Un inventing pizza.
Holy shit the propaganda is real.
And I’m going to listen to your baseless accusation and ignore Bernie Sander’s crystal clarity? lmfao.
Bernie Sanders: Trump is the most corrupt president in our lifetimes
You know what my main problem with Joe Biden is?
He’s not Putin’s choice? He gave billionaires a tax increase instead of tax cut?
Joe Biden doesn’t know the first fucking thing about being an American because he hasn’t ever actually done it.
You mean despite being the only US Senator who rode the bus to work every day?
Joe Biden knows way more about being an American than you seem to.
[Remarks by President Biden on Democracy and Freedom | Normandy, France]
Too many of the laws outright don’t apply to them
Which specific law does not apply to Joe Biden? You simply made that up. His son was just found guilty on a charge that almost no other person in America would even be charged with.
Biden has done so much fucking shit for the average american (which is saying something thanks to the Do Nothing fascists)
First US president to join the union workers ON THE PICKET LINE In many ways we have handled this world-wide inflation shit better than any other in the G7 nations Unemployment numbers are at record lows, .01 lower than any other time in the past 10 years at one point in january and april of last year and since then has only risen around 0.3-4 points, removed healthcare related debt from credit scores
I could go on and on, but instead, others have already done so for me (and these aren’t even super recent):
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-opinion-biden-accomplishment-data/
Biden is fucking awesome. The more progressive president since LBJ if not FDR.
Him joining a picket line for a photo op is kinda cancelled out by signing that bill that blocked the rail workers from striking.
Cancelled out? I remember when I was 14 and everything seemed simple.
Only reason he won the primary in 2020. Idealists don’t do well against fascists but moderates are inoffensive enough to
It’s a dangerous game, as Biden’s not bringing anything to the table on his own. Hillary lost in 2016 with a 10-pt plunge in support, because of the Comey October Surprise. Biden could easily suffer the same fate, if his lackluster supporters get spooked a few weeks before the general election.
Biden’s not bringing anything to the table on his own.
You mean, besides besides being the most progressive president since LBJ?
That’s a low bar. LBJ was racist,
“During his first 20 years in Congress,” Obama said, “he opposed every civil rights bill that came up for a vote, once calling the push for federal legislation a farce and a shame.”
LBJ was the president who got the most important civil right bill passed. Biden was the most progressive president since LBJ and FDR.
The Emancipation Proclamation was kinda important.
Yes it was. Did you not realize that Lincoln came before FDR?
Logical thought is essentially a process of figuring things out step by step. Think of it like putting together a puzzle where each piece must fit perfectly with the others to form a complete picture. It’s a way of thinking that helps connect ideas in a rational, sensible order. It starts with simple truths, builds on them, and leads to a solid conclusion, just like following a set of directions to get to a particular place. source
does repeating this lie help you believe it?
does repeating this lie help you believe it?
LMFAO. I believe that Biden was the most progressive president since LBJ because I have been paying attention to politics since Nixon was in office. I can remember the end of the Vietnam War, and the minute details of every administration since. Which particular president do you think was better than Biden?
I can remember the end of the Vietnam War
how do you not remember biden’s anti-gay votes or his anti-gay, anti-me2, pro-studentloandebt, or pro-isreal advocacy; like most boomers do?
was it because none of that affects you or is it because you’re willfully ignoring the last few decades to make his presidency look better in your eyes?
or is it simply because trump is so bad that the alternative is automatically good enough?
How did you not know that Biden has done way more to nullify student loan debt than every other president?
How did you not know that Biden got a Gaza cease fire passed by the US security council?
biden’s anti-gay votes
The president does not vote against anything. I said Biden is the most progressive PRESIDENT.
How can you not know that Biden has been more progressive on me2 or lgbtq THAN ANY OTHER PRESIDENT?
or is it simply because trump is so bad that the alternative is automatically good enough?
Well we know that Convicted Sec Offender Treason Trump was ranked worst of all presidents by historians. So a house plant would be better than Treason Trump. But doesn’t change the fact that Biden has been the most progressive president in the last 50 years.
he literally use to brag about getting the bill that created our student loan debt problem passed the senate.
also: he’s been in federal politics for over 50 years; but we can only judge him for 3 of them?
ysk that cherry picked 3 years has been hit and miss at best.
