With the recent WWDC apple made some bold claims about privacy when it comes to so called Apple Intelligence. This makes me wonder if they did something to what Microsoft did with Recall feature, would people be less concerned and to an extend praise their effort?
Do you trust apple with their claims?
I don’t think Apple is planning that. For now they’re trying the approach to expose metadata like email headers to their AI, but that such data has been already accessible to the search functionality anyway.
It’s very different from Recall, which dumps screen capture of webpages and passwords into a database file that’s only protected by access rights.
They already did, Spotlight is Machiavelli behind the “walled garden”
You’re saying this like Micro$hit isn’t just going to revert back to recall being opt-out (or non-removable) in a few weeks after the outrage dies down
People.would be okay by getting fucked to death with a splintery rake if apple charged $999.99 for it.
Apple fanboys would… other people I don’t think so…
That brings me to a recent discovery:
I got a text via matrix, my notifications dont show content, yet the „places“ app suggested a route to an address given in the message.
I checked and had no appointment or other text which the app could have read it from.
This suggests to me two things: apple is reading our screens already, our governments do as well.
Can someone confirm or deny?
Can’t neither but it’s sooo easy to achieve with telemetry.
Your friend searched for the place. Your friend send you (any) message. Anyone and their mother know you are affiliated with your friend. Said place is now connected with you.
That’s why telemetry doesn’t need to read your screen
It’s weird to assume that OS doesn’t “read” the notification content, because how else would it categorize them by priority, and provide smart replies and stuff.
That’s the whole reason why I disabled the notifications for Lemmy app.
Its like Apple runs the notification servers or something
Thanks for offering your opinion. I find it weird to assume the worst at all times yet here we are.
My point is that it makes zero sense to use encryption on iOS devices at all if they read your stuff anyway, no?
Not really, it can make sense. By “reading” your messages/notifications they could just perform semantic search/categorization, or now, run a local LLM. It doesn’t necessarily mean they send that data to servers or make people actually read it.
Encryption just means the data stored on your device is not saved in plaintext. So if somebody gets their hands on your phone, they won’t be able to hot-wire the memory chip and directly read all the data.We have a misunderstanding here. I know that encryption as a whole will do that. But using anything else than imessage for example or whatsapp makes no sense if they can read it anyway. No point in using matrix, threema, signal and whatever. I need to get rid of this phone.
If it’s the encrypted transfer protocols that you’re talking about, then it’s just for the transfer of data. It was never meant to make things secure on the endpoints. Encrypting your whatsapps, signals and so on just ensures the ISPs and mobile operators can’t read your messages. Also prevents an occasional MITM attack. Once the data reaches your device it’s not encrypted anymore, as you can read it and copy it.
I know. You do get that the normal person does not think their phone manufacturer listens in on the stuff they have on their phone, yes? That is what I‘m talking about.
I don’t follow. No I don’t think that most people think that Apple and Samsung are spying on them. But a lot of people are concerned about NSA and the likes having access through the cellular service. Which is what the encryption is for.
Apple has been trying to be the next advertising giant. They’ve been growing their advertising revenue and plan on doubling it this year. They went from $4b ad revenue to $7.5 2022/2023. And if you remember correctly, that was right when you started seeing all their “apple cares about your privacy!” ads and got into it with Facebook. They’re not out here to protect our privacy. They’re trying to take the advertising revenue from the other ad giants and corner that market for themselves.
Think about it. They have gotten people locked into their OS/ecosystem. They basically hold the advertising golden ticket. They’re not here to make your digital life more private. They’re here to get your data for themselves, locking out the competition. They aim to bring more people into the gate and shut it behind them while extracting all of our advertising milk with their more advanced data udder sucking machine. The pasture looks nice, but when those gates close, the skies darken and the farmer corners you with that look in his eye.
I don’t know where that metaphor came from. But that’s how I see it in my head. The moo cow with the pretty eyelashes and the shiny bell around her neck is pulled into a false sense of security by the smiling farmer at the gate, but that shit turns dark real quick when she’s locked in.
No
.
Recall in principal is a cool idea. It is also one that M$ has not earned the trust for. I think Apple would be better received. I’m not sure I would like Apple’s recall, but they have done more to foster trust than M$.
And Apple has earned any trust? Jesus christ people, like less than 2 months ago they were caught restoring “deleted” photos from iCloud to user devices hahahahaha. Of course fans were excusing them talking about disk sectors like that has anything to do with cloud storage being available accidentally hahahaha.
But yeah, Apple cult followers will find a way to justify surrendering even more freedom to Apple with this BS for sure. And they will be paying top dollar for the pleasure hahahaha.
I am curious why you’d think that is a good idea. I find it absolutely useless, as anything that I’d like stored… We can already easily store. But recording EVERYTHING that happens in my computer??? What kind of data hoarding obsession is this?
That is a small vulnerability away of being the biggest mistake of your life, IMO.
Same reason file manager has a recents. It helps you return to previous work. Asking it if it remembers which paper had which conclusion or graph would make being a grad students easier. Perhaps it reminds you about some deliverable you promised in an email is due is three days. I see it as a good tool to organize productivity with. Like I said no one has earned the trust this software would require.
Yes! “Recents” works fine and doesn’t even need to record everything you’ve done and consume AI resources!
For asking about papers and so… You can do that with an AI crawler on your files!! No need to store a screenshot of everything you’ve ever done!
The deliverable thing, again, it can be done by directly looking up your files.
But no, somehow they went full spy instead. Companies will love to put this feature in their employee’s computers.
Wanna fire someone? Let’s see if they used their computer once for an unrelated-to-work task…
Now if someone gains access to your computer they’ll get everything that you didn’t think you even had! So great!!
Yeah but recent only considers local files and you can’t ask it which one said this or that if you don’t remember. Its a good tool to keep track of a lot of things. As a student I would like that.
Once you find out we’ve had fuzzy finders for 40 years your mind is going to be blown.
I am not saying AI is not useful. It will be an amazing use case to sprinkle some AI into fuzzyfinders, but don’t let it have everything that has ever been played on screen… Passwords, private windows, one-time messages… You must be very young if you don’t see the problems with that.
There is a reason why we have password protected folders and files, or how we keep some stuff locked online, or how we use private browser windows. And you want to feed all that to an AI.
I know about the fuzzy finders and regular expressions. The Q was why I think it is helpful and I answered that. You’re just hitting me with some dogma. You could also just know where your stuff is at and not need search tools either. Recall is a neat idea, but I don’t have confidence in M$ execution or privacy.
Not your keys, not safe encryption. As simple as that
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In my opinion the problem is not who would agree/disagree with it, its more like the fanbase and marketing is on another level and most people would just not care as long as they have the latest iPhone with the latest buzzword functions and features.
I feel people are more forgiving towards apple. I dont have any study or anything to back it up, just can’t see why the die-hard userbase of the most isolated and curated ecosystem would care about anything.
Do you trust apple with their claims?
No. I inherently distrust trillion dolllar tech companies in poorly regulated economies. They are able to get away with a lot of crap and they know it. That’s how the Cult of Apple works. I would not be surprised when they violate their own privacy policy knowingly and structurally.
Apple’s PR is better. With Microsoft all news titles were like “OMG Windows will take screenshots of all you do and send it to AI”, and with Apple it’s more like “Apple is carefully adding AI to their products, respecting user privacy as they always have been”.
Of course, when one looks into technical details they would find that MS Recall is strictly local and runs only on special hardware that people don’t even have yet.
Apple Intelligence does send your data to cloud and scans everything you have in Apple ecosystem, not just screenshots. Of course they say it’s done in very privacy respecting ways, and provide a lot of technical information to back this claim. But at the end it’s closed source and is subject to change at any time.
Having said that, Apple users are used to and value that Apple magically takes care of everything, so they are happy to pay premium for Apple’s products whatever the company does.
As far as we know, apple’s system does not take screenshots automatically, storing them unencrypted, likely revealing secrets to other programs.
Recall doesn’t either… it’s encrypted with Windows Hello Auth
But once a process is running its trivial to get weeks of extremely detailed history and lots of secrets you thought were ephemeral
Makes a lot of sense until the closed source affirmation. The source code of the OS they develop is closed source, but a lot of what they do is open source and independantly audited by experts, so there’s that in the balance.
Windows is just a pile of trash.
I guess there is a chance to see some of code, but I doubt about it being properly open sourced.
While we’re publishing the binary images of every production PCC build, to further aid research we will periodically also publish a subset of the security-critical PCC source code.
Source: https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/
What that Apple does is Open Source? This is the first time I’ve read this.
Darwin. Their BSD and the foundation of MacOS and therefore all the current OSes they produce.
I have heard of Darwin, and went back to read up on it to refresh my memory. While it is considered open source, it is also useless unless it is used for Apple’s closed source operating systems, as can be appreciated in this explanation:
In the beginning, Apple used to make Darwin available as a separate OS, including compiled binaries, installers, ISOs, etc. that you could install on Apple hardware. However, for many years now, Apple only provides a source code dump, every time a new release of macOS comes out. It isn’t even possible to compile this source code, because it depends on Apple’s internal build tools and build pipeline. There have been some projects trying to patch Darwin to compile it with publicly available tools, but those projects have all died from lack of interest.
Open Source should be compilable and able to be used, at least that’s my perspective, and I just may be wrong.
Here’s the article this came from on StackExchange:
https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/401832/why-is-macos-often-referred-to-as-darwin
Yeah, but that’s just the kernel. Anything above that (window manager, the utilities that they didn’t outright copy from BSD, apps, …) is basically closed source.
Yes
Swift, Webkit, Researchkit, Carekit, FoundationDB, CUPS, Darwin, LLVM and Clang, SwiftNIO, Turi Create, Homekit ADK,
Its one thing to be against a product but its essential to be well informed and not base our perceptions on biased informations.
Yup, that’s why I asked. I still hate Crapple and everything they stand for, but this is good data to start doing some in-depth research. Thanks.
Damn hating a product. You are damaged man.
Who says I am a man? Just kidding, I am. I do hate Apple, Google, Microsoft, Meta and every other company out there that operate business on a predatory model. Am I damaged? Absolutely, at so many levels it’s hard to count them. But that makes me just human, as you will find there is not 1 single human out there that is not damaged at some or other. On the brighter side, I am doing what I can to heal.
I’m not familiar with all of them, but I know several of them are tools. Isn’t it in apple’s best interest to open source the tools if people use and improve them, and subsequently it means they get more money from the app store? And if these are the only things they open source, they still have a tight fist on the vast majority of their code base.
While on the subject of apple and FOSS. They may open source some tools, but do they give back to other projects? I.e. does apple push upstream? Substantially less than google and ms. And I would go so far to say almost never.
You’re diverging from the main subject from what is open source to what you find acceptable behaviour from a corporation, which i do not involve in.
