France
Just make sure to avoid Brussels. Belgian myself and I hate the place.
Common tourist places during tourist season are usually the worst. I took a 10 day trip to Paris one summer and it was a mix of the most popular tourist places (Louvre, Eiffel tower, etc) and some underground shit my sister found.
Every tourist place was jam packed with annoying tourists, costly and had tons of scammers surrounding it. Every less known place was really awesome, aside from one sketchy neighborhood we had to walk through where we were followed for a while.
I’d also say that Northern Europe has generally been much more pleasant to travel through, for me.
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Sweden is actually pretty nice, if you stay away from bigger cities
Yeah, I visited sweden once, where I camped in nature. The cities were meh, but the nature was very nice.
They have a “no go” zone in the city where I live. I went there. It is nice. The people are poor by Swedish standards but if you’re not from here you would not bat an eye. The only way you believe this is if you have never been to Sweden, or at least not a “no go” zone and/or you get all your news from racist right wing fuckwits who desperately try to convince you that Arabs are destroying European society.
OP Sweden is nice, even Stockholm and Gothenburg, just a bit expensive
Swedes told me that Malmö is a rough and ugly city before I went there. And honestly it was a fairly average coastal city that did not seem rough at all. Also had some beautiful spots.
Ah yes, the famously war torn Sweden.
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Ah yes, the famous “no go” zones of Sweden.
There are no ‘no go zones’ in Sweden. It’s just an intentional misunderstanding by the far right party to fan hatred on immigrants. But nonetheless, there are areas which are for the worse socially and economically.
Almost every reason given sounds like a description of my home of Florida.
Andorra. Full of motor bozos, duty free shops, terrible cities in the valleys. A tax haven joke country. Nice mountains i guess.
That’s the same in San Marino. It’s nice but come on, it’s full of duty free shops and shops that sell arms that are illegal in Italy
What’s a motor bozo?
Paris, it’s the WORST city in all of France.
Done. I’ve been on vacation in France many times, visited many regions and provinces. Never been to Paris.
Correct, it’s the worst most popular place
I really liked Paris 🥲 I did go during the end of October though, so that might’ve have been a factor. People still didn’t want to talk to me in French, but they weren’t rude about it.
My favourite place to visit in France was La Rochelle, I feel like I got most of the benefits of visiting Coastal France but without the Marseille/Toulon/Monaco crowds (yes I know, Monaco is not France).
I also liked Paris and I’ve been there twice in summer. People weren’t actively going out of their way to be unfriendly to us, so this was great compared to the rest of france.
Everyone we asked for help did their best to help us, though we have 0 french knowledge. I had very different experiences elsewhere in France (we quickly learned to only speak to arab people outside Paris, if we needed help, worked fine).
We skipped most touristy places and just had a few relaxing days there both times. So that might also be, why we had a pleasant time in Paris.
I’ve been to Paris 3 times, I’m from BC in Canada. April, May and October I went. Had an amazing time every time, people, food, places. It’s one of my favorite cities.
“Nobody goes there, it’s too crowded”
Not to hijack a thread, but what does lemmy consider the BEST place in France? I’d like suggestions.
Bretagne
La Rochelle, Nantes are both nice from my experience.
Most places in the south
If you want to stay in Germany and hop across the border, Strasbourg and Colmar are both nice towns. Has German influence but you get the benefits of being near the black forest for a 2 for 1 trip.
Toulouse is a pretty laid back larger city that is beautiful without being overly touristy
Please don’t hate me: Paris, really.
the south, I’m told.
Lyon. 3rd sized city. Best food of France. 2 rivers. centre of France so close to anything. should have been the capital of France if the kid of one king didn’t die there for some reason, or whatever
Lyon is pretty great. Depending on the vibe you’re going for, Marseille is also pretty awesome. I’d avoid it in the middle of the summer, but shoulder season down south is amazing. The weather is great, the people are friendly (if you avoid the worst parts of town, like anywhere) and the food is a nice mix of traditional French and Mediterranean cuisine. And make sure to get a flight of Ricard.
Yes, please don’t come to Paris. It’s crowded enough as it is. Also we’re all very rude.
I once had a French co-worker tell me that the rest of France would divorce you if they could.
Paris is 80% people from the rest of the country. Which their former neighbours promply hate as soon as they move there.
It’s traditional.
From what my former Parisian grad school housemate told me, I concur. He once said in reply to a friend (named Roger) asking him why people in Paris were mean to him and hate Americans, my housemate replied, “Oh Rogers, zhee French do not hate Americans, zhey hate EVERYONE, especially zhee other French”. My experience in Paris was that the Parisians were surprisingly friendly. But I speak a little French and say Bonjour and Merci when warranted.
My experiences in Rocket League can confirm. People being toxic in chat? Tell them something in chat back – get the “tg” to confirm French. Every goddamn time, always the French that are so rude.
Why? Why are they having such a bad day every day? Play a game to have fun ffs.
Don’t come to Greece, over tourism is a huge problem here…
But Im planning a Honeymoon and want to enijoy your history. Can I go if I dont use airbnb?
I don’t think there is any way right now to come without negatively affecting the locals. Essentially, the tourists to locals ratio is out of hand. A few of the problems we are facing:
- Everything is overcrowded. Our public infrastructure is barely equipped to handle the population of 10M, on top of that add the 36M visitors we saw in 2023. It may be fun and exciting if you are here for a couple of days, but living through that all year long is exhausting.
- Everything is overpriced. Most people coming to Greece have expendable income we don’t have, along with overcrowding, this sets prices we cannot afford. Airbnb has definitely exaggerated the housing crisis, but it’s not the only issue. When you are eating, drinking, visiting historical sights, or doing any activity, you are contributing to that.
- Our economy is over-reliant on tourism. As someone else commented, no other type of industry can compete with tourism, every year more places lose their identity as they adapt to the ever-growing needs of the tourism industry.
- Our history is being erased. Visiting a historical sight may a wonderful experience for you, but every step you make, every photo you take, every trash you throw, impacts the place you are visiting, destroying little by little thousands of years of history.
As a personal note, my income is a few times the national average, and yet I cannot afford to go on vacations this year…
As a (not) fun challenge you can try to limit your budget to around 30 eur per day per person. You will fail, probably won’t even find living accommodations within that budget, but it will give you an insight on our struggles.
I feel you lol. I wish less people came to Portugal, especially Lisbon and Porto. It’s a bit ridiculous sometimes. The culture people come looking for is slowly dying or becoming a fake version of itself because legit stuff is being pushed out of historical centers, in favor or tourist attracting alternatives. The issue of overpricing (because all the English, German, French, etc, visiting Portugal earn way better than us here in average) is ludicrous, it’s becoming harder to enjoy the places we used to go 15 or 20 years ago.
sighThat’s really sad, because one day I wanted to go and learn Jogo do Pão. I hear it’s a dying art but they’re trying to keep it alive.
lol
I believe “jogo da bolacha” is a more common name here X)Lmao I was confused but I think I see where I got it wrong. I said “bread game” instead of “stick game”. XD
Apologies for butchering the language. :)
…Lol the machine translation of “jogo do pau” appears to be…Less than polite? Hahaha.
So, clarification: I think rural stick fighting from Portugal would be really cool to learn. :) lol
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- laughs naughty in Portuguese *
Actually, the traditional Jogo da Bolacha is also a thing. If you’re in Portugal and someone asks for you to join, YOU JOIN. It’s extremely rude for foreigners to refuse the Jogo da Bolacha. Specially if the inviter winks at you. It’s also good manners to announce you’ll loose the first few times, while you learn. If people are surprised by this just smile, lick your lips and say you’re the Cookie Monster. You’ll be accepted among us very quickly.
Okay. You. You’re a sneaky sneaky one, you. LOL That comment made me laugh so hard.
So, sadly, with my internet-ruined mind, I kinda guessed this when someone said “cookie game.” Over here in NA it’s called “limp biscuit” (like the band), and knowledge of the concept alone is enough to hope it’s just an urban-legend joke and nobody’s actually played it. 😂
“I am the Cookie Monster” ROFLMAO!!!
Messed up, but really damn funny. XD
Aaaaaah, that makes much more sense lmao
The “jogo do pão”/“jogo da bolacha” is silly and dirty kids “game”, I was quite confused how you even knew about it x)
But yeah, jogo do pau is pretty cool, though I know little about it. It’s another slowly dying bit of our culture.
This was a hilarious case of language misunderstanding. XD
I’m still laughing at how accidentally switching two similar words meant that comment must have sounded REALLY freaking weird to you LOL. I learned a valuable lesson here.
Yeah, in NA this is called “limp biscuit”…there was a popular band named after the concept. Gross. 🤢
XD I was caught very off-guard, ngl
Yeah, in NA this is called “limp biscuit”…there was a popular band named after the concept. Gross. 🤢
Nice to know x)
Oh, you’re a feisty one, aren’t you!
It really is sad. For more than 25 years I’ve been visiting Portugal (so yes, I’m part of the problem…) and every year it gets a bit worse: endless new hotels destroying the beautiful views of the cliffs, villages mostly catering the needs of tourists, …
I just wish I hadn’t told everyone how amazing it is in Portugal 🥲
It is, the the fault isn’t entirely on the tourists (specially if they’re respecting and give two fucks about the places they’re visiting); the governments have been pushing tons of pro-tourism stuff everywhere for years, hence why we grew that industry so much, often without thinking of long term consequences and economic balance. So now, we have an economy overly dependent on tourism (with all the good but mostly bad stuff that brings), which, in addition to other shitty decisions like massive roadway investment instead of railway (we have one of the best road network in Europe, but a shitty railway one, significantly shrinked down in the last 40 years), have led to lots of serious issues preventing good development of a lot of other industry we could have and once had. The classic example is Algarve (the southernmost region) is so dependent on tourist they had a very hard time during COVID. Outside of Lisbon’s (<2M) and Porto’s (>1M) metro areas, every other city has less than 500k people, and the vast majority less than 100k, which presents obvious issues.
Anyway, sorry for the shit dump 😅
Thanks for the insight! I just hope that Porto and Lisbon don’t turn into another Paris or Rome…
Yeah, for sure 🙏
Was about to say the same for Spain. Fuck you, tourists. Stay at home.
I got dragged to Málaga against my will (family stuff) and it was horrible. More pubs than tapas places to cater to the British crowds…
ΝΑΙ ΓΑΜΩ. Even though my family works in the tourism industry (because my island literally only has that. Any sort of local economy was eradicated and everything is incredibly overpriced and imported), I have felt the negative effects deep in my soul, so much so I wish it would just dissolve even if that means they need to find another way to make a living. I’ll be damned if I ever willingly work for traditional tourism (ecotourism I will consider)
I was disappointed with Paris in my last visit. It’s filthy, dirty and disgusting.
Aah, Paris 🥰
Compared to NYC, Paris is downright spotless.
NYC was also disgusting.
CDG airport. I hate that place so much.
Heathrow, Schiphol and Frankfurt are all so much easier to navigate.On a serious note though: I’ve never bern anywhere in Europe that I straight up disliked. Sanremo was probably the «least friendly» with locals all pushing us towards the casino at every oportunity. The city was also surprisingly worn down.
The local market was awesome though.
Sanremo is a joke town, the only thing keeping it alive is the yearly Italian music festival (the one that inspired the Eurovision Song Contest). Also, don’t go there in February because that’s when the festival is taking place.
If you go to Naples and the Amalfi coast, everything is expensive. That’s expected, but do not for any reason use the trains. Gangs will rob you, possibly worse.
But do go. Sorrento is lovely but very commercial. Find the small towns where the Italians go.
And visit Pompeii, it’s extraordinary.
EDIT - I may be wrong about the trains, please see the further comments in the thread.
Bullshit
Really? I took the circumvesuvian railway a couple of years ago and it was just a regular commuter train.
I was warned off by locals and they did look very dodgy. It’s entirely possible they were referring to a different, more specific line, but I didn’t get that impression and I wasn’t about to find out for myself.
Apologies if I’m wrong, I’ll edit my comment.
Those trains sure look dodgy, in a post-apocalyptic kind of way. Sometimes people jump to conclusions that it must be full of crime
Public transit seemed relatively safe to me, when I was there 2 years ago. The Amalfi coast is no that great though. Rather go to Naples, use a day for small boat trip to either Capri or Ischia, one day to take the commuter train to Herculaneum. After that take the train from Naples to Salerno, which is a good bit less touristy and ceaper than the real Amalfi coast. Perhaps take a boat from Salerno to look at the Amalfi coast from the sea (more beautiful that way anyway) or enjoye some of the beaches that are reachable with public transit nearby. In Salerno you can also take a train or Bus to Paestum, which is a UNESCO world heritage site has some greek temples from 600 BC.
Avoid coming, because i hate you
avoid Malta at all costs.
Why?
aside from the weather (which is nicer in Sicily), it’s an archipelago that pretends at all costs to have a relevant European history while offering no way of exploring that history whatsoever. The rampant touristisation of La Valletta has turned it into what’s basically an all-ecompassing sprawl of luxury hotels and discos where prices are inflated. I did not have a nice time there and would not go back even if I had the chance.
I wouldn’t say at all cost, but Montenegro isn’t fun. Russians have built massive hotel resorts on the beaches there, the locals are unhappy that they’re there so they don’t like tourists. They’ll try to fight you on the beach because you’re not local. Get hassled by the cops because you’re not local, but you’ll be able to buy your way out of your problem if you’re lucky. People don’t want to talk to you, everyone is pretty cold and borderline rude. Go to a bar for a drink and you get a glass nominally washed/rinsed in tubs of soapy water behind the bar that the previous 100 glasses went through and hasn’t been changed out. The landscape is beautiful in a hostile sort of way, but there’s just not much reason to visit. It’s not even particularly inexpensive. The hotels will try to charge you for everything, including a scuff on the wall that you didn’t do, a chip on a planter on the balcony, etc. ridiculous money grabs.
idk about the process in montenegro, but it’s pretty normal in america for bars to use a three compartment sink with a christmas tree scrub brush stuck to the bottom of the first sink, which is filled about half full with soapy water, a rinse water mixture in the next one and a sanitizer water mixture in the last one.
it’s a fast and safe way to do dishes by hand, especially glassware if you always inspect for chips afterward (which you should be doing anyway!).
I understand there’s a right way to do it, but allow me to assure that the two murky trays behind this bar were not acceptable by any means. I didn’t want to get too graphic, but glasses went from the customer hand, a quick slosh and a rub in liquids that would make any civilized health department shriek, wiped “dry” with a filthy rag that had just wiped the bar top, filled with the next drink and handed to the next customer.
This is the kind of stuff where you see it in a movie like so: the scoundrel hero walks into a dive bar in the spaceport, orders a drink, the camera makes sure you see the pustulent, greasy alien clean the vessel using the above process. The alien pours a questionable liquid into it, and slides it to the observing hero who has been keeping a stone-faced expression but for a hint of discomposure as he receives the drink. After the briefest pause in frame to let you know he questions what he is about to do, he downs the beverage. You can’t help but cringe along with the hero and think licking the alien might have been safer.
(Am not comparing or suggesting Montenegrins are in any way shape or form like the hypothetical alien)
Places where you only order highballs due to health concerns ftw.
That gave such Space Quest vibes and I’m here for it. Just needs the narrator: “Don’t lick that! It doesn’t know where you’ve been!” Lol
As others said Switzerland. It’s beautiful and all but really expensive. It really took away a big part of fun when I went there. But not only that, I thought the swiss people seemed sometimes kinda "rude"or maybe a better word for it “cold” and a little annoyed if it came to tourists. I get it, it’s a small county and a lot of people are visiting each year, but it still wasn’t fun for me to be there and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone to go there.
And North France near the German border like Strasbourg. The city and the region is beautiful as well, but the people are often like the cliché everybody knows and that sucks if you’re a tourist. But the south of France like Marseille and the Provence is always worth a visit. The people are chill, enjoying life in the typical mediterranean way and are often friendlier (and often speak English at least in the bigger cities/tourist areas).
cold
This is my experience with Europeans in general tbh
Then you should visit south europe. Europe is divided by the alps in a lot of things, like potato or tomato as main ingredient in meals. But also in culture itself. Everything north of the alps is kinda cold and seems unhappy/angry and stressed all the time and south of it people seem chill, happy and friendly.
So knowing that European consider Swiss people cold, imagine how cold they are.
They are stone cold to foreigners - so many English speaking wealthy people live there and they are not welcomed into the local communities. It can take a decade to make local Swiss friends.
As an Anglophone who lives in France, I agree. Although where I live (east / south-east) English is not very widely spoken, even in bigger cities, but the people are generally very friendly.
I thought the swiss people seemed sometimes kinda "rude"or maybe a better word for it “cold” and a little annoyed
I have some Swiss-American relatives, and I think this is cultural. They just have a different set of indicators, they’re not going to be grinning and hugging.
…but it all goes wrong again at the south coast. Even the locals leave for the summer.
As a counter example, I managed to make friends with a Swiss person while elsewhere in Europe, and then later in my travels got to visit them in Switzerland for a few days. My time there was truly one of the most breathtaking and memorable experiences of my trip.
Maybe it’s expensive, maybe Europeans are “cold” personality wise, but God damn they have got some incredible scenery.
