• @ZzyzxRoad@lemm.ee
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    422 years ago

    So where are all of the conservative “if Biden actually wanted to cancel student loan debt he would just do it” people now

  • Flying Squid
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    1582 years ago

    These greedy motherfuckers don’t want anyone to be helped unless they profit somehow.

    • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
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      2 years ago

      I think it’d be more accurate these authoritarian motherfuckers don’t want anyone to be anything other than their slaves.

      Cato Institute was cited in the article, and, being a fervent right-wing think tank hater, they don’t talk about profit. Instead, they’ll argue for some shit like short term limited duration insurance because they’re less regulated than other health insurance plans. This falls in line with their “De-regulate Everything” argumentative scheme. In other words, it’s perfectly a-okay if companies can rip people off without federal oversight.

      But for programs that in any way help other people…well…they’re unconstitutional or an abuse of executive power.

      It’s interesting (except not at all, because they’re all hypocrites) how they haven’t said anything against DeSantis’s use of executive power in Florida. Somehow, everything he does is constitutional and within the reach of executive power.

  • @iamnotdave@lemmy.world
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    312 years ago

    I just want to say I was surprised and so fucking happy when I got a notification that a payment did not go through for my student loan and logged into my loans website and seeing that the 7100 I had left was suddenly paid off.

  • @Saneless@lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    Sounds good, I’ll keep voting for the party that hates US citizens

    -Fucking dipshits who think they’re doing anything other than volunteer work for billionaires

  • @caveman@lemmy.ml
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    11 year ago

    39 billions is money which could be going to Israel to support their genocide.

    Taking it from them and giving it to American education is anti semitic! /s /ADL

  • @OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee
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    72 years ago

    From what I’ve read this is on much firmer legal ground than the last one. But you gotta get through lawsuits for everything.

    • Flying Squid
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      132 years ago

      Why should people have to pay back their student loans when corporations didn’t have to pay back their much bigger PPP loans?

        • Flying Squid
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          122 years ago

          Sorry, your answer is “because they said it was okay that time and not okay the other time?”

          • @orangebussycat@lemmy.world
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            22 years ago

            Without PPP loans half the country would be unemployed and the economy would be a disaster. Meanwhile, a college education increases your lifetime earnings by $1.2 million, so you’re just being greedy and asking for a bailout.

            • Flying Squid
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              52 years ago

              Meanwhile, a college education increases your lifetime earnings by $1.2 million

              How much of that $1.2 million goes to paying back loans with interest?

              • @orangebussycat@lemmy.world
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                22 years ago

                The average federal student loan debt is $37k. If you can’t afford 37k over the span of several years you need to reexamine your financial decisions.

                • Flying Squid
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                  72 years ago

                  Sure, if you ignore interest, it’s easy to pay off that $37k. Too bad there’s interest and people are paying more on that than their original loan was worth. People with good jobs. How are you unaware of this?

  • @foggy@lemmy.world
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    52 years ago

    Okay so for starters I am for cancelling this debt.

    But this thread is full of people in this thread making false equivalencies with regard to why people might oppose this. Things I’ve seen:

    “Fuck you I got mine”

    “My dad died of cancer so it’d be wrong if them to continue cancer research”

    “Just evil”

    “A bunch of people who don’t have debt”

    Etc.

    And for all of you this applies to I offer this: What is the plan for preventing it from continuing after the current orders of debt are cancelled? Is there anything? I genuinely haven’t heard it if it exists. If there isn’t a plan on stifling the lending rates forever more, then the issue will just resurface, likely worse. I’m all for cancelling the debt but is there a plan for preventing the debt?

    • scmstr
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      2 years ago

      That’s literally always been the goal, and conservatives have pounded their chests and dragged their feet, and now liberals have had to back up to doing subtle payment plans and exclusive relief measures that require a person to be in debt for decades.

      I’m sorry, but what a bad take.

    • Roboticide
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      32 years ago

      Same. I paid off my loans but I’d love it if my friends and wife had an easier time. To say nothing of the millions being dragged down by over a trillion in debt.

      But I get why people who may have invested in Student Loan asset backed securities might not want student loans forgiven. SLABS may be part of 401Ks or pension plans. I think debt shouldn’t be something people can even invest in, but for those who did, I get why they oppose it. It could even potentially harm a student paying back a loan who also has a retirement account that invested in SLABS.

      And this absolutely is just a band aid on a gaping wound. It doesn’t actually resolve the problem, and with no attempt to remedy it in the future, I can see it just making college access even more difficult for the less fortunate.

      Biden should do everything he can to push it forward, but that is just a first step, and the people opposed to it may have some valid concerns.

  • They just need to make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy. High earners who can afford their student loans will be dismissed like any bankruptcy court applicant who makes enough money to pay their debts, and the people who are actually struggling will get relief at the penalty of 7 years very bad credit.
    Bankruptcy works for every other kind of debt, it was written into the Constitution by the founding fathers, and it’s the perfect system designed exactly for problems like the student loan crisis.

    • @Mamertine@lemmy.world
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      112 years ago

      Student loans are intentionally excluded from bankruptcy because law students used to declare bankruptcy immediately upon graduating.

      They had tons of debt and no or very low income. The court usually discharged The debts.

      It wasn’t limited to lawyers. It’s just that the law students knew how to file fos bankruptcy, since bankruptcy law was part of law school.

      The banks lobbied Congress change the bankruptcy laws to prevent that from happening.

    • FuglyDuck
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      192 years ago

      Because either they got theirs and fuck everyone else. Or, they never got theirs and fuck everyone who might get theirs.

    • @LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world
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      182 years ago

      Because Ronnie RayGun said it is dangerous for government to help people. Totally cool for government to help those poor billionaires though.

      • @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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        12 years ago

        Totally cool for government to help those poor billionaires though.

        Well, Elorn bought Twatter and can’t afford to pay rent (or severance, or server fees, or lawyers), so it seems right that he should get a handout. How’s the guy even gonna pay for his next lunch?!

        Meanwhile, my grandmother can’t afford insulin. That bitch better figure it out!

    • cassetti
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      192 years ago

      They’ve become so focused on political “points” and afraid of the other “team” scoring a “point” that they’re willing to do anything, regardless of the optics.

      Because they don’t stop and look at the bigger picture - it’s just political capital they can push around or dangle as a carrot in front of voters for future elections.

    • Kbin_space_program
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      152 years ago

      Because the corporations that own the private colleges and universities that overcharge on tuition also are the ones that hand out student loans.

      They stand to lose billions of dollars in predatory profit if they can’t collect interest on student loans.

      • @tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works
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        12 years ago

        Yeah I see a lot of “cruelty is the point” comments here, which might not be entirely false, but if they sue it mostly means someone is pissed off about losing revenue.

        • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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          12 years ago

          The cruelty isn’t the only point behind every conservative position, but it’s the only point of enough of them to make me suspect it’s part of the motivation for all of them.

            • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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              22 years ago

              Really? Not for anti-trans laws, anti-immigrant laws, and laws that specifically target medically necessary abortions? Of course it’s the point. If looking at the laws they vote for isn’t good enough, all you have to do is talk to a few conservatives to figure out they’re hateful, cruel people.

              • @merc@sh.itjust.works
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                12 years ago

                You may see them as hateful and cruel people, but that’s not how they see themselves. They would have to see themselves as cruel for cruelty to be the point. The fact that you think it’s the point means that you’re unwilling or unable to actually understand their point of view.

                You may disagree with it, but it’s not about “cruelty”, and pretending it is just shows your personal limitations.

                • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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                  12 years ago

                  If course they don’t see themselves as hateful. But they have no qualms about using cruelty to enforce their idea of the proper social order. If you want to be very literal, the cruelty is the means to an end and not an end in itself, but when they use cruelty as a first resort to enforce rules to designed to keep undesirable people in their place, I see it as a distinction without a difference.

      • @WindyRebel@lemmy.world
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        42 years ago

        If only there were some loopholes to close and a way to take a little cash from assets that never ever get sold…

    • @Vlhacs@reddthat.com
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      102 years ago

      Simple answer I think is GOP don’t want anyone in their base to think any form of government assistance is good and will always label it as hand outs. More government assistance/social safety nets means their capitalist overlords gets to maintain and build their control over citizens and money will flow to them instead. Also “liberals bad!”

    • @bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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      2012 years ago

      conservatives view social hierarchy as a necessity which must be enforced. if you’re at the bottom, you deserve to be there, and if you’re there, you suffer because you deserve it, and because you’re at the bottom, you deserve to suffer. cruelty is the point, and without it, there can’t be the joy of their success.

      anything else, to them, is profane and must be fought/destroyed. anyone who tries to climb above their position must be punished.

      relevant videos:

      The Alt-Right Playbook: Always a Bigger Fish

      Endnote 3: The Origins of Conservatism

          • Orphie Baby
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            2 years ago

            I’m not a Christian, but no. And screw your upvoters.

            Edit: Just in case you need an explanation (though if you did, you probably wouldn’t accept it anyway), a person who says they’re a Christian but doesn’t read/learn, understand, or follow any Christian principles except incidentally is not a Christian. It’s like a person saying they’re a pacifist, but they go out beating up and killing homeless people at night. That doesn’t make pacifists assholes, that makes the person a liar. Your brain cells barely need to function for you to understand this principle, so stop with the religiophobic bullshit.

      • Impleader
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        382 years ago

        The only thing baffling about any of this is that somehow, millions of ordinary, working/middle-class Americans believe that this system benefits them more than the alternative.

        • @Invisinak@lemmy.world
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          192 years ago

          it’s not baffling at all. the American dream is literally everyone is a millionaire or will be one day. conservatives are the only ones buying into that dream still so they’re trying to live like a millionaire now so that when the money finally shows up they’ve done their part to help their new millionaire friends along the way.

          The problem is they don’t understand that the likelihood of them becoming even moderately wealthy is pretty slim and they’re too blind to see that voting to hurt the poor is voting to hurt themselves in their current situation.

          • Flying Squid
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            2 years ago

            When I was growing up, at least the way I was taught (and I was only born in 1977), the American Dream was a steady paycheck, a house and a car. Did that change at some point or was I taught something other than what people actually believed?

            • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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              22 years ago

              As someone also born in '77 I generally heard the same things and the same sentiment. Though I think that might have more to do with family and the general class you grew up in. Because it isn’t Universal unfortunately. Nor can capitalism deliver on it.

        • @eran_morad@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Nah, they’re just pissed and want to believe they’ve been wronged by some “other”. Ironically, they’re 100% correct, but have identified the wrong “other”. Baffling, indeed.

        • @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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          32 years ago

          But voting another way will result in my children being accosted by drag queens who will turn them gay / trans and my freedoms will be co-opted by shitty beer companies who don’t believe in Christ. Then my enemies will take my guns and my elderly parents will be shipped off to a commie gulag and murdered to make room for more whatever whatever whatever… I ran out of tropes. Hopefully, you don’t need me to punctuate that this is sarcasm.

          These are the things that they think about obsessively. They aren’t thinking about how to make the world a better place. They’re thinking about the things they hate and fear.

        • @bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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          142 years ago

          the whole “Playbook” is pretty great, bit this one is excellent for explaining exactly why conservatives see things the way they do

    • @IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world
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      152 years ago

      Wilholt’s law, “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

      Aka, “you’re not hurting the right people”

      • @Blackmist@feddit.uk
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        142 years ago

        “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

        ― John Kenneth Galbraith

          • @Blackmist@feddit.uk
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            52 years ago

            Two sides of the same coin these days.

            Conservatives seem to mostly be libertarians that have realised they can use single-issue voter, crazy church shit to get themselves elected.

            • @Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works
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              2 years ago

              They’re libertarians when it comes to them being able to do whatever they want, and they’re fascists when it comes to things they don’t want to do. Has actually nothing to do with political philosophy, it’s just naked short-term self interest. (They don’t even care if something will be bad for them in a few years.)

    • @Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world
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      442 years ago

      Along with the usual “the cruelty is the point” responses, I’d like to remind people that this is a direct strategy championed by Mitch McConnell, who has been championing this strategy long before Biden came along.

      First, McConnell believes that the GOP should not have any policy positions on anything at all. If you have a policy position, that position is subject to criticism. Rather than champion policies that he fully admits would be unpopular with the voters, McConnell believes in simply pointing to the Democrat policies, pointing out the flaws in those policies, and just making vague promises that the GOP can do better without actually defining how. Ever seen the meme of the guy tapping his own head while saying something profoundly stupid? That’s exactly what this is. Picture McConnell doing that while saying “Can’t be criticized for your terrible ideas if you just don’t have any ideas at all!”

      The other part, also championed by McConnell and others, is that no matter what it is, if it originally was a Democrat idea, then a Republican must be against it at all costs. Not only must they be against it, they must treat every Democrat policy as a threat to American society as we know it. Take a look at Romneycare in Massachusetts. A healthcare bill created by a Republican that was considered widely successful and basically the cornerstone to Obamacare. But the second a Democrat suggesting nationalizing the program, it was suddenly the worst program in the world that would collapse our healthcare system and lead to death panels.

      And sad to say, but it’s been a very effective strategy for them. It’s easy for the GOP to get their voters to blame Democrats for problems because deflecting blame is easy, and people are always looking for someone to blame for whatever problems they have in life. People tend not to do their own research or critical thinking and often just prefer to be “told” what the “right” answer is, especially if what they’re told jives with their own personal worldview. If voters want to believe that Democrats are the root of all evil, and their elected leaders are saying that Democrats are the root of all evil, it’s not much of a stretch to get them to believe that anything or any ideas associated with Democrats are also evil and must be eradicated.

      It’s all about maintaining political power through obstruction. Doesn’t matter how bad your own policies are just as long as you continue to make sure voters believe that the alternative is even worse.

    • Flying Squid
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      662 years ago

      “I’m not getting debt relief, so why should they” is their only argument. They’re just greedy.

      • cassetti
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        172 years ago

        I don’t need student debt relief, it won’t affect me. But I am extremely for it - it’s called wanting a better life for your fellow human being.

        Compassion - it’s not a difficult concept if you’re not a narcissistic a$$hole.

        And as an added bonus, the money currently going to banks would actually get better distributed to businesses (both big and small) and act as a net gain to our economy. But screw that - we don’t want some bank stocks to dip and affect some wealthy pension plans! /s

        • @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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          12 years ago

          I hadn’t ever considered it, but my desire for student debt relief also won’t affect me. I’ve been harping on this thing that I want for the last couple of years. I never stopped for a second to consider that I’m not in that group. I just want a better life for my fellow humans. Thanks for bringing that to my front of mind.

          These people are truly assholes.

        • @eran_morad@lemmy.world
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          42 years ago

          My family is financially secure and has no student debt. I, too, am for student debt relief, in part because it benefits me directly. When my neighbor has an extra $100 in his pocket to spend at the local shop, that benefits me, too. “Conservatives” (just what in the fuck do they conserve?) are too stupid to see this.

          • I was blessed with my parents saving a lot and saving early for my college, and I fully support student debt relief. I honestly don’t understand how it’s possible for someone to be lucky, see the vast majority of people to be unlucky, and not want all of them to be helped out.

      • Bizarroland
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        442 years ago

        And many of them got covid bailouts and never had to pay a penny back and do not think even for a moment that their actions are hypocritical

      • @RojoSanIchiban@lemmy.world
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        282 years ago

        And we literally have congress critters that lived on welfare debt relief programs and want to tell others to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

      • @TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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        2 years ago

        If you think your brother is a dumbass for simply going to college, you may be the dumbass in the family. If he is a dumbass for other reasons carry on.

        Some people don’t want to work a job that they hate even if it pays well, so they go to school to specialize in something that they like. Not everybody wants to work a trade job, or be a salesman or whatever.

        But yea debt relief would be nice. Anybody who wants to further their education shouldn’t have to go into debt to do it.

          • @Goblin_Mode@ttrpg.network
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            52 years ago

            I mean if he actually got into med school then he must have some interest. Med school is hard as fuck to get into, you either have to be really fucking smart or super dedicated. So your brother clearly has something going for him.

            Hell even if he failed out he still got in and that’s impressive. Maybe cut the guy some slack?

  • AutoTL;DRB
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    302 years ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    Two conservative groups are asking a federal court to block the Biden administration’s plan to cancel $39 billion in student loans for more than 800,000 borrowers.

    In a lawsuit filed Friday in Michigan, the groups argue that the administration overstepped its power when it announced the forgiveness in July, just weeks after the Supreme Court struck down a broader cancellation plan pushed by President Joe Biden.

    The Education Department called the suit “a desperate attempt from right wing special interests to keep hundreds of thousands of borrowers in debt.”

    It’s part of a wave of legal challenges Republicans have leveled at the Biden administration’s efforts to reduce or eliminate student debt for millions of Americans.

    Under the one-time fix, past periods in forbearance were also counted as progress toward Public Service Loan Forgiveness, a program that offers cancellation after 10 years of payments while working in a government or nonprofit job.

    Biden’s action was illegal, the lawsuit says, because it wasn’t authorized by Congress and didn’t go through a federal rulemaking process that invites public feedback.


    I’m a bot and I’m open source!