Today 10 years ago I went to Poland to buy a Phone with pre installed #Firefox OS on. The Phone was a Alcatel One, so very shitty. Two years later I installed Firefox OS on my Nexus 5 instead.
It was a very good concept, but sadly rolled out on too shitty hardware so it never caught on.
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today there are comparable projects with like postmarketos and ubuntu touch for specific phones, among other linux mobile projects
Also Sailfish OS (though it’s not fully open source), which I use.
I sincerely hoped Jolla would at least continue to make one technology demonstrator hardware model available for purchase by enthusiasts. The current situation where I have to buy a phone and then buy OS separately is not feasible for me.
I mean, the license cost me $50 (maybe €50, not sure). It’s not that much, just pretend the phone cost $50/€50 more.
Jolla can also be purchased and used in very few countries. 4 according to their list. I don’t mind paying for an OS and a phone, but their phone support is also only for very expensive Sony Xperia phones. So I can see why it is not feasible for a lot of people
If you mean the OS, it can be purchased in all of European Union plus some other countries. With VPN you can purchase it everywhere. Though I read that the Xperia phones don’t have the necessary bands for USA.
I really wish they had opened all of the system.
I mean: what is it they can still lose? I’m pretty sure a few licenses are not making them break even. Do they fear some third parties would copy the OS and release phones with it? Would that not be a sign that other companies trust in the OS and help them land bigger contracts?
/e/ managed to get a business off with a full opensource stack, without building the phones themselves. What prevents Jolla to try the same approach?
They could have been the main developers of the true Linux opensource phone OS. Instead, they’re going to get passed by Plasma Mobile, and then they’ll have nothing left to offer.
I think they can’t open the Android part because of aome 3rd party licensing, but yeah, the rest should be open source.
Ubuntu Touch has been pretty decent, and because of how it’s built, device support is a lot more widespread. Although it’s in this perpetually broken state now, because of the transition to the Focal base.
No luck at all with Postmarket though, on any of my devices. One is marked as bootable but unusable, but I can’t even install it fully
Ahh, my appraisal might be the opposite, PMOS seemed to have better software and support for things like the Pinephone and I thought it ran on more devices, but I am happy to see both projects and it’s nice to see both designs
On a device that supports PM, it will without a doubt have better software support. Current UbPorts runs on Ubuntu 16.04 base, so it basically can’t run anything new until they fully migrate to at least 20.04
Imo that’s what caused Firefox to lose market share to Chrome. They focused too much on Firefox OS and deprioritized browser development. In one example, it took them a long time to implement FIDO when it was already functional in Chrome.
Chrome won the browser war because they were lightweight, had better plugins support and it was easy to integrate with you google accounts, which were basically standard.
Firefox at the time was plagued by memory leaks and it was worse with plug-ins installed.
Ironically I switched back to Firefox years ago because Chrome was having those same issues that Firefox was had.
Considering how dominant the mobile OS has become, this wasn’t a terrible gamble. Like they lost and it looks bad in hindsight, but you can’t blame them for trying. If it had succeeded, we’d be living in a very different world of technology right now.
They timed it right so that they fucked up both ways, in the browser and in the low end web-connected phone market. They are clowns.
My recollection was that the game was already down to just iOS or Android by the time this came out. Windows Phone still existed, but it was already being ignored by popular apps like Snapchat.
Plus the people who even knew about this (tech people) didn’t like the “everything is a web app” idea when Chrome OS did it, much less a smartphone.
This perfectly explains the demise of BlackBerry phones too.
They tried to focus on lower end devices and that’s not inherently stupid. If you only need half the ram and CPU of a low end Android phone, you can undercut Android’s marketshare - in theory at least.
focus on lower end devices and that’s not inherently stupid.
It is. Phones are an aspirational market, it’s the top end that sets market trends. It’s been the case since 2007 at the very least, and arguably well before that. Focusing on the low end was a huge mistake from Mozilla leadership, and it’s sad that nobody seems to have paid a price for it (beyond the FFOS team, which was eventually disbanded). FFOS almost killed Mozilla.
No. You’re way too euro/us-centric. There’s a huge market for low end phones in Africa, South America and large parts of Asia.
If the FFOS team would have managed to get, say, a Nigerian carrier on board and produce a viable smartphone at 40$ or so, that would have absolutely dominated the market there, especially in the early days of smartphones.
The needs of the poorer 4 billion of this planet are not met by 500+$ phones that break every six months and have a battery life of about 5 minutes.
KaiOS, a FirefoxOS fork, is used in the JioPhone in India. It is a feature phone with some internet capability, and is reasonably popular among lower middle-class users.
You can probably have much larger profit margins on that $500+ phone, and if it breaks quickly (and if consumers are OK with that trend which they seem to be), then you get even more money.
That said, it hasn’t been my personal experience that smart phones break easily. At least not the few I’ve had that have all lasted me 5+ years each. I’ve been using my Pixel 6 with no case, and I swear this thing tries to commit suicide constantly. If a surface isn’t completely flat that thing will slowly slide until it falls and hits the floor. I’ve had it been literally 10 minutes after setting my phone down, the thing will seemingly fly off the desk out of nowhere. It’s wild.
Anyway, this thing is built like a tank. Still works great.
You can probably have much larger profit margins on that $500+ phone
Cool, then go ahead and sell the 500$ phone to a nigerian farmer.
Getting a foot into the high end market is almost impossible, the barrier to (successful) entry is gigantic. Tackling the underserved low-end market is a much more viable strategy. And now comes the kicker: Not being able to enter a market is (and this will shock you) even less profitable than entering a low-margin market.
I really don’t intend that as an insult, but you’re looking at this from a very western, rich, profit-oriented standpoint. Mozilla never was about profit and the world is larger than our western rich kid bubble. 500$ is enough to feed a person for an entire year (or more) in some countries.
But they didn’t manage to - nobody will, not writing an OS from scratch. To support that level of development you need high per-device margins that only high-end devices can command. The low-end is restricted to low-margin new devices and secondhand high-end models - because, despite your preconceptions, high-quality models can work for a decade when not abused. The poor Nigerian will buy a secondhand flagship today and, if they get wealthier, a new one tomorrow; they know the market as much as anyone and will not buy something that simply makes them look poor.
The view that the developing markets will eat shit simply because it’s cheap, is an out-of-touch colonial mindset that dooms a lot of companies.
User experience beats everything else. It sounds like some essential components were never finished
Fxos was just android + a custom launcher, it was not a huge investment since it was just a launcher in the end. They focused on low prices, a camera to create video reports and a usable mobile browser.
This is incorrect, it was also Linux-based but completely unrelated to Android.
It was android 5 (or maybe 6 with its 2.6 versione) and the launcher was gaia
I think what destroyed Firefox market share was a RAM leak that took them like a year or two to fix. It consumed all of your available RAM and would bog your computer down. I know that’s what drove me away. It took like 10 years for me to come back.
Once Firefox lost session manager and downthemall, it was dead to me.
Nowadays I use edge. All the benefits of chrome plus it’s leaner.
I use kiwi browser on phones for the addons, and because it’s faster than Firefox
I use Tab Session Manager and Session Sync add-ons with Firefox and I’m quite happy with them.
I haven’t looked into those specifically, but I’m pretty sure there are alternatives that do the exact same things for FF
If you are still interesting in Linux phone, consider looking at PinePhone Pro. I would recommend it only for experience users and the phone experience is far from Android, but software is catching up. Check @linuxphones
P.S. writing this comment from PPP :)
I know about the PinePhone Pro and I am quite experienced.
But even hardcore hairy dude like Drew Devault disavowed it (source).It seems that the main complaint is calls and SMS. I use different distro (Arch, btw) with FOSS firmware for the modem and calls / SMS work fine for me.
How is PinePhone Pro now? It’s been over a year since its release and reading on reddit a few months ago it still seemed behind the original PinePhone. I would like to upgrade to the Pro version, but I’m worried it will be another year for it to be stable.
I think its on par with the original PP now. I also own PP and I would recommend to upgrade, performance is way better.
But if you do, I would recommend to use megi’s u-boot fork to improve your battery life.
That’s cool! So there aren’t any issues with phone calls anymore? I think people complained about audio quality, but I guess my PinePhone also has some issues like that.
But if you do, I would recommend to use megi’s u-boot fork to improve your battery life.
Doesn’t everything use Tow-Boot now?
No call issues at all, I daily drive it.
Doesn’t everything use Tow-Boot now?
Yes, but it’s a distribution of U-Boot and it some releases behind. Megi recently implemented many cool features for U-Boot for PPP and it will take time until they appear in Tow-Boot. So I would recommend to use provided binaries from Megi for now, see his blog for more details: https://xnux.eu/log/091.html.
Didn’t know about this, thanks!
bad link ?
Sorry, forgot that I need to use exclamation mark: !linuxphones@lemmy.ml
:)
Nah. just not properly linked instance.
Or SailfishOS! Has Android layer where apps can run seamlessly (without some hardware stuff support, like fingerprint etc.).
Want to mention that on GNU/Linux we also have Waydroid that provides Android app support :)
I know about that, but from my experience nothing really compares to the ease of use of the SFOS AlienDalvik. Though something may have changed since I last checked (1.5 years ago).
I mostly wrote it for other readers.
Also used both, I would say they are similar. But Waydroid can’t forward notifications to the main OS as in Sailfish. Sad that AlienDalvik is not FOSS :(
Are there any foss options for non-tech people?
If you mean GNU/Linux - no. But you can buy a phone that supports Lineage OS. It’s Android distribution, so you will have everything you used to have on your phone and the OS will be fully FOSS.
Thank you. This seems to be the best option at the moment. Right now I’m stuck on iPhone which I bought without realizing how restrictive their OS was. However I don’t have the budget or interest in buying a new device currently, so I’m just keeping an eye on my options.
Jealous. That always looked cool. Sad it never caught on.
OS aside, the Nexus 5 was boss.
I remember when Ubuntu for phones was hyped so big, then it fell flat…
can you still get that
Yep https://ubuntu-touch.io/ . Rolling out LTS 20.04 for their supported phones at the moment.
That home button is really cute. Reminds me of the iPod Nano 7
FFOS was an html mess. The GUI didn’t have much to offer. You couldn’t organize your apps since they were only accessible through the cluttered app drawer.
The HTML was not the problem, the never finished OS was one yes.
I still liked it because of how easy it was to develop apps for it like I did with my https://jeena.net/feedmonkey
Indeed, there were advantages when It came to app development. There was for example, the Unity web exporter. Embedding web apps for the OS worked out of the box. On the flip side, there was an impact on performance. Like there was no multithreading possible. At least not for the Unity Web export.
What is this? A phone for ants?
I remember a time when all of the companies were striving to make cell phones as small as possible. But as soon as touch screens came out that trend reversed.
When we realized we could watch porn on them.
Reminds me of the original 3.5” iPhone. Absolutely tiny by todays standards.
The nexus 5 was peak size for a phone imo, it’s a nightmare trying to find a decent 5" phone nowadays.
Iphone mini apparently is pretty good.
That size is discontinued
decent 5" android phone
People have been praising some smallish Asus thing lately
I got a oneplus one, that was good too
I want to see something like this but without the bezels
Nexus 5 was just peak EVERYTHING for that time. Badass hardware, badass display, size, design, everything about it was amazing even if it had no fingerprint sensor until the Nexus 5X and 6P.
God I miss when they made phones with love.
I usually buy last year’s pixel model when they go on sale around end of year. prefer to use my desktop as eyes aren’t great at skimming tiny text. on a 6a which should last until next year. could get by with much less
The 6A is the worst phone I’ve ever had. It never gets a good signal and barely lasts a day of battery. I bought it new.
I always thought those were really cool! I used to have the launcher they made for Android on my old Droid Turbo, and it was pretty cool! Then it stopped working when I got a new phone with a newer version of Android.
I remember this, we had one phone in our country with it, but it was such a terrible phone. And now FirefoxOS is KaiOS…
I have a KaiOS phone made by Nokia. As a functional phone, it’s ok only if you just make calls or texts.
I also have a KaiOS phone, to have a dumb phone with Whatsapp. Did you come from the /r/dumbphones community too? ;-)
Nope. I bought it years ago as my spare phone for emergency use.
Oh man, I wanted one of those so bad back in the day, how was it?
It was quite slow because of the hardware, it sometimes wouldn’t recognize touches, and the software had so many bugs like that when you got a call, you couldn’t take it because there would be some overlay over the button to take the call which would steal the touch most of the time, etc.
Yh boi
I miss my nexus 6 shamu. I think that phone was the best that Google ever made even to this day.
My Nexus 6 was the worst phone I’ve ever had. It aged like milk. It was so bad I jumped off Google phones and never went back. Getting the OnePlus 3T was like breathing fresh air again.
Edit: had the Nexus S and Nexus 4 before the 6, loved those phones… So jumping off Nexus was no small matter.
I’ve had android phones since the G1. The Nexus One was pretty freaking sweet, but my favorite phone of all time was either the Nexus S or the Nexus 5x. The curved screen on the S was great and it fit into the back pocket of my pants “like a glove”.
I still have mine in a drawer. Sure newer phones are taller but that thing was fucken WIDE. It felt more like a small tablet. I don’t know if it’s right to say that Google made it though; really it was made by Motorola
Same here; I’ve got mine in a box along with my Pixel XL, Nexus 5, and Moto X (which feels like a tiny Nexus 6). I tried the Nexus 6 for a few hours about a year ago, and it was still surprisingly snappy. I have a Note 20 Ultra for my daily driver, and it still feels small compared to the girth of the Nexus 6. I feel like I could possibly use it today, which is one of the reasons I keep it around, in case of an emergency.
