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I don’t consider myself a Republican or a Democrat, although unless things change drastically in American politics, I can’t see myself ever voting Republican by the time I’m dead and gone. With that said, I mentioned to someone yesterday that if I didn’t have the experience of living through Trump’s time in office, this debate would make me seriously consider voting for him.
I really don’t believe that this debate is going to sway many undecided voters toward Biden. If you compare their performance at face value, Trump was unusually well-spoken, and Biden seemed like he belonged in a nursing home. Half of what Trump said was complete bullshit, but how many undecided voters are actually reading articles that show how full of it he really is?
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.
I don’t dislike Biden, but my personal opinion is that the best thing he could do for the country is step aside and let a different Democrat take the nomination. Geriatrics like Trump and Biden need to retire, do whatever they feel like in their golden years, and let someone else take the reins. A competent politician in his 50s or 60s would absolutely destroy Trump, and that’s exactly what we need right now.
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.
to be fair to Biden, he wasn’t all there. I mean, he had a cold, and if that doesn’t fog things up, the medications would.
But, I feel like somebody on his Campaign programing team should have pointed out that if the win-conditions for a successful debate is literally staying alive (see John Olliver rant,) that there wasn’t really much to be gained by it in the first place. it’s not like we don’t know their positions. we’ve already had 4 years of these guys. (well, 3.5 for biden. close enough for politics.)
Polls are all trash, but this focus group we believe.
This one affirms our convictions so it must be true
Democratic party would crush it if only they replaced Biden with a younger candidate. I’m telling you, even republicans might switch over and vote democrat if this happens.
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris. So it’s either him or her.
Still certain Democrats would crush it without Biden?
Will someone please come out and say what the problem with Kamala Harris is? I see people hinting about it all the time, but I have no idea what it’s all about.
Her record as DA is problematic for a lot of people. She was labeling herself as a progressive, but then behaved as a conservative. Fought to keep a lot of people in prison for minor offenses, fought to keep the death penalty, etc. While doing that, she had a book out about criminal justice reform… and went against her own advice. Pretty much a lap-dog for conservative criminal justice policy. Overall, blatantly hypocritical to anyone that was paying attention.
Thanks for explaining.
It’s because she’s a woman. They’re scared.
It’s certainly true that women who rise to the top of national politics get relentlessly, negatively caricatured (Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi). With Kamala Harris it’s different because a lot of the murmuring comes from Democrats and they never say why.
I have a problem with many of her past decisions but, the same goes for Biden. Both are still a significantly better choice than Trump.
Is she pro genocide? My only problem with Biden is his age and Israel policy, and I have no idea what hers are.
Unfortunately, anyone who has any real chance of being president isn’t going to do anything meaningful to stop what is happening in Gaza.
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They aren’t required. But Biden/Harris delegates aren’t chosen randomly, they are Democrats who have demonstrated loyalty towards Biden and Harris and have personally pledged to support them.
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Fair point. I think they would absolutely go with Harris. Partly out of deference, partly because she would remain in control of the Biden/Harris $100 million warchest and ground operations org, partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states, and partly because Democrats need to campaign on women’s rights and it would look awful to pass over a Black woman.
I also think that Newsom/Whitmer/Beshear/Pritzker et al are not interested in replacing Biden. They will inherit chaos, are very likely to lose in the general, and that will be the end of their presidential aspirations.
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As you suggest it’s a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.
There was a similar issue in Alabama, but it looks like they just moved their deadline after the convention.
Lol, have you seen a Republican recently?
Yes, have you?? I actually happen to live amongst them, which may sound exotic to some Lemmings.
“I hate Trump, but Joe is a walking corpse” is not an uncommon sentiment.
Are they aware that even an almost-corpse could follow their advisors and therefore end up having an effective presidency? As long as Biden doesn’t start doing random senile shit (and be realistic, he’s far from that)
To a lot of these voters it’s not about having a logical cabinet nor even policy. It’s the individual as a character representing our nation, and to them Trump is better spoken than Biden even if what most of he says has little basis in reality.
This is why Obama had such a good time with swing voters, it’s not really about the policies from what I see. I’m shocked no party since 2008 has tried running a younger candidate. I’d love to see someone younger debate Trump. Like Pete Buttigieg for example. Like ya he’s still a career politician, but I suspect he’d do much better at making the insane stuff Trump says sound insane.
If they haven’t changed their minds yet, then they aren’t going to. It’s time to try someone different.
Besides, you’re not even needing Republican votes. You just need undecided votes and to energize democratic voters who hate both candidates with age being a big factor.
I actually happen to live amongst them
I do too, which is why I know that you are wrong.
The presidency needs to be reframed. It’s not some position of ultimate power. Presidents have far less control than the general public thinks, or the media would have you believe.
To get anything lasting done you need all three branches working together and with this court, and congress…
No one who saw that debate was inspired by Biden, no one. Ok maybe 1 out of 100, maybe. But 99 of them were not. Gaslighting won’t help, the goose is cooked.
It’s like you didn’t even read the article or what they said and are trying to pretend they said something else. Amazing that you would pull the term “gaslighting” out, it’s almost as if you know what you are doing.
To reiterate he article, they were turned off by Trump’s lies and repeating the same things and avoiding the questions. None says they were inspired by Biden.
Lol did you? It literally cites a single voter and a poll showing Trump trending better among Latinos than previous electoral performances for that demographic. Nothing in this article actually warranted the headline and meta polls show Trump still ahead. Delusion will only hand us another 4 years of Trump
You fighting to sow discord against the only viable alternative is working to get Trump, pointing out that regular people found reason to prefer his responses over Trump and highlighting what they are is useful in helping people highlight the many advantages of Biden.
Yes he’s not as energetic as a lunatic, probably because he’s a sensible human that’s been working hard on his lifelong goal of improving the society he lives in and pushing through sensible and practical reforms that actually help real people and put the nation on track to deal with the many challenges it faces going forward.
So nice job of not addressing the fact that you didn’t read the article and nothing I said indicated that I’m trying to sow discord. I will vote for Biden and argue that others should as well
But pretending that the debate helped that cause is worthless. We are losing and pretending we are not doesn’t help. Stop fighting with people pointing out reality and be more vocal on why to vote for Biden.
Criticizing Biden right now is not “working to get Trump”. Biden could easily step down and get behind an alternative candidate. These things aren’t black and white when we’re still like 4-5 months out from the election.
Did you read the article? Here’s a quote:
The clip shows a group of about a dozen people and one of them being interviewed by a journalist.
So you think this can be applied broadly to undecided voter sentiment in general?
FR FR
One of those “Vote for me because I’m not my opponent” moments.
No, but Trump blatantly lying about everything, and refusing to admit that he was convicted possibly did turn some “undecided” voters away from him. This election isn’t so much voting for Biden, as it is against Trump. Or for Trump for the idiots that vote for the felon.
yeah but I bet they were suddenly worried
I supported Biden before the debate, I support him now after the debate. But now it’s more of a “Ah fuck, look at this mess I’m going to be voting for, ah fuck what the fuck America aaaaaaah.” Than it was before.
Do you feel like it’s a mess now? I’m not voting for Biden because i think he is a good debater, I’m voting for him because hes done a perfectly fine job as president during some tough times. He’s smart enough to let the systems that have held together for decades continue to function and to take advice from experts.
Trump wants to dismantle the government and fill it with trump loyalists, which adds even more incentive to make sure Biden wins.
Agreed. How about the other guy? Was anybody inspired by him?
I’m really sad that it’s come to this. It’s how I feel when my coworkers vote to go out to a sushi restaurant. I don’t like fish and I’m allergic to shellfish, so I eat my pile of steamed rice and bite my tongue when they want to split the bill equally.
What was I talking about again?
I was thinking the debate rules actually saved Trump from his worst impulses. Biden was allowed to speak at full length and Trump gets to appear like he can participate in a civilized conversation while Biden would sometimes go off the rails while trying to fill his time. A lot of his embarrassments started in a decent place, but pivoted badly in the middle.
Trump confidently lied repeatedly without consequences, and so long as someone is unaware that it’s lies, I could imagine them finding Trump’s rhetoric credible that night.
You have a very interesting point about the muted mics actually being in Trump’s favor while simultaneously allowing Biden to ramble like Grandpa Simpson.
Trump’s lies were more obvious than normal. So there’s that, I guess.
Maybe they just related to someone having trouble keeping up with a yelling idiot liar?
His lies seemed more artful and effortless to me, and he stayed calm and lucid the entire time.
I’ll agree, but he was at the same time more bold, like saying everyone wanted to overturn Roe v Wade. Confident and competent lying can get you far, but if you lie about how the people watching would feel, you undermine all your other lying.
There are few things more maddening than claiming you know how someone feels more than they themselves do. A very credible liar can be undone if they lie that well on a matter the audience personally knows better. Suddenly all the benefit of the doubt purchased by the confidence is erased.
Very capable delusions
The best fictionary
Make all the throwaway jokes you want but a low information voter would probably perceive him the way I described and wouldn’t catch the lies. Trump may be older than in 2016/2020 but he appeared present and even reassuring to uninformed or on-the-fence previous Trump supporter eyes.
Yeah that’s what propaganda does. I could absolutely see that MAGA and uninformed people would fall for this tripe.
BIDEN: I supported Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters.
First time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor – I mean, it’d be between the woman and the state.
The idea that the politicians – that the founders wanted the politicians to be the ones making decisions about a woman’s health is ridiculous. That’s the last – no politician should be making that decision. A doctor should be making those decisions. That’s how it should be run. That’s what you’re going to do.
And if I’m elected, I’m going to restore Roe v. Wade.
TRUMP: So that means he can take the life of the baby in the ninth month and even after birth, because some states, Democrat-run, take it after birth. Again, the governor – former governor of Virginia: put the baby down, then we decide what to do with it.
So he’s in – he’s willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby.
Nobody wants that to happen. Democrat or Republican, nobody wants it to happen.
I think a big part of the problem is Biden is a good politician, he’s generally honest and forthright which is what everyone claims to want.
But we’re all so lost in marvel movie logic and cinema tropes that people don’t respond to it, they just want a showman - meanwhile politics is boiled down to robot voice tiktoks and reddit posts that barely scratch the headline so again people don’t respond to reality they need a hyper targeted exaggeration coated in catchy idealism and easily retweetable slogans.
Biden says exactly the right things, minis the sort of speech error we all make occasionally, and his record backs up his ability to actually get things done - often in a way that doesn’t draw massive attention but incrementally makes things better.
Trump is a liar and an actual idiot, like genuinely stupid and uninformed - but he says anything that will sound good at the time so it makes it seem to people that aren’t paying attention or follow complex arguments that he’s the one who’ll get things done
You’re not wrong, but the people you describe aren’t the ones this article is about.
The problem is the only people saying this are people who have been saying the same things for the whole time and are desperate for it to ve true so it’s hard to believe them, it’s not coming from my friends that weren’t yelling about Biden every excuse they got.
It’s like thuderfoots recent starliner stream, he predicted it would fail and spent the whole time saying ‘oh shit, here it goes… looks like it’s going to explode…’ even when both bits were returned safely he was calling the spaceX staff morons for celebrating because he was so desperate to be right.
People wanted Biden to fail because then they could push their brand of politics but he’s doing great based on actual metrics, so they try to make him fail using opion and tone setting behavior - the exact way Trump beat Hillary, memed that she was bad until no one went to vote.
What? I wanted Biden to succeed. And he wasn’t doing good in the metrics, his approval ratings were bad, being other dems who are way ahead of him in polls. He was tied with Trump, which is insane given how bad of a candidate Trump is. Most all voters (65% I think) thought he was too old before the debate and wanted another choice.
What will they think now?
I learned absolutely nothing new from the debate. Trump is a habitual liar and Biden is a doddering old man. Out of our two wonderful choices I’ll be voting Democrat but I still wouldn’t trust either of them to drive a car I’m in let alone run the country.
Perhaps, but I think there’s a lot of people overstating the impact Biden’s performance will have on the end result.
November is a long way off. There’s plenty of time for either party to fuck things up.
Trump’s legal stuff still has a way to run between now and November which I think will have a far bigger impact.
As a decided Joe Biden voter I am confused but I thank you.
This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth.
War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.
And to add something with more substance than straight eye rolling sarcasm, amazing that the non-english speakers loved his performance.
Lets get one of those translators on the ballot.
Old Joe Biden in the only politician to ever beat Donald Trump in an election, and he’s going to do it again, and that’s the fact Jack
Fun fact, Trump ran for the Reform Party nomination, which eventually went to Pat Buchanan, back in 2000.
I was gonna respond directly, but then I saw the lineage of this post.
It is literally a hall of fame battle of people I blocked on kbin.social (you included you boomer boot licking fascist with the audacity to have the immortal Johnny Ramone as your profile pic) vs people I loved on kbin.social (who sometimes get a little tied up in the weeds, but are thorough and actually put effort into processing new information).
Low key crushing on you all… and getting my block button fired up for half yall.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Tell us again how you’re not MAGA? Nearly everything you post is the same repetitive anti-Biden rhetoric. Yet never offering any realistic suggestions to overcome the problem. Nothing but negativity and pointing out flaws.
That essentially the definition of propaganda.
“Everyone to my left must be maga!” - centrists who want to discredit anyone to their left and only their left by lying about them.
Says the guy who magically arrives to defend the MAGA bots any time someone so much as looks at them.
You lied about blocking me, and the only “evidence” you ever have about someone being a “maga bot” is that they don’t agree with you.
Did I?
Or did you not read what I said about blocking you? Maybe go back and reread my words. Then come back here and apologize for accusing me of what seems to be your singular purpose here.
Downvoted for literally an accurate 1984 reference with no other commentary.
It just seemed to fit so perfectly. Bluster is not going to see the Democrats through this election.
Bluster is all they have left, so let’s blow the left half of America’s mind and have a Bernie/Khanna ticket.
How rad would that be?
Bet it could beat Trump.
After Biden gets kicked for age? I don’t think it would fly. We need someone in the goldilocks zone if we’re doing this at all.
So… Khanna?
I’m laughing that I submit 2 different focus groups of undecided voters saying the opposite and it’s down-voted into oblivion.
But this copium is upvoted…
what matters
…really? Hey, I’ll take it!
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/28/joe-biden-replace-us-elections-2024
All undecided voters in a U.S. swing states focus group hosted by pollster Frank Luntz said President Biden should be replaced as the Democratic nominee after watching his first presidential debate against former President Trump.
Newsweek is tabloid-adjacent.
Biden is underperforming his 2020 run by pretty much every metric. It’s time to try something different while we still have time.
Lol. There is no time. Replacing an incumbent at the last minute is a death sentence for a political campaign. It would be the most foolish option. Even if Biden came out and said he’s stepping back and letting Kamala Harris take the spot, you’d be fighting an uphill battle for people who haven’t been paying attention to her work as VP, which the uninformed thinks does nothing.
That’s not even taking into account all the sexist and racist shitheads who have been doing all the fear mongering and hand-wringing about the prospect of Harris becoming president by simply being VP. We have a bunch of really shitty people in this country…
Man its already a death sentance. They can’t hurt it any more than than that debate did.
As literally every single outlet has already pointed out, plenty of other candidates have had the same issue, and come right back from it. Y’all need to chill out.
You cannott undo dementia or Alzheimers the mans brain is going. With how few press conferences and speeches he has done without a teleprompter its fairly clear that this is NOT new.
He needs to grow a pair and gracefully step down, or he is just handing this to Trump on a silver platter.
That is complete and utter bullshit and smarter minds than me are already advising it, including one of the biggest analysts in the industry, Nate Silver. Here, let me walk you through it:
I’ve thought this through for quite some time and I think you’re missing the opportunity for Democrats to seize the narrative.
- “We listened to voters who were unsatisfied with either candidate, a large majority who said age is a real concern for them.”
- “Joe Biden stepped down for the American People to let a younger generation lead.”
- FREE VIRAL MEDIA TIME for months on end about the fresh face of the Democratic party.
- A complete lack of developed right-wing talking-points to disseminate.
It doesn’t have to – nor should it be – Harris. I can think of half a dozen other candidates with semi-national profiles who could easily surge in polling with such viral media attention following a Biden resignation.
All we know is what doesn’t work, and what doesn’t work was shown last night. It has been showing in poll after poll after poll despite people burying their heads in the sand: a President with approval ratings in the 30s, and a Presidential candidate who is FAR behind in every data-point compared to where he was in 2020. Need I remind you that Biden took this debate out of pure desperation to begin with, and now he’s now 2 full steps further back than where he needs to be as my link on battle-ground undecided voters proves.
I’ve listened to Jon Stewart, Katie Couric, 2 different NYT podcasts, post-PBS analysis, Pod Save America (former Obama/VP Biden staffers), Washington Week roundtable – and they are all echoing the same fucking thing:
It is time to try something different.
Given the timing that nearly all the primaries are done, his replacement would necessarily be someone no one even has the chance to vote on. This is a tremendous risk.
However, if he announced someone like “announcing my new chief of staff: Obama”…
That would be interesting and I’m frankly open to it.
I don’t think people not voting is a big deal because frankly we didn’t have a legitimate primary season this cycle anyway. More importantly, if Biden himself voluntarily stepped down and endorsed someone else, then that at least channels those votes through Biden.
I’m laughing my ass off that you even try to source Nate Silver. Member when he was right those two times a long ass time ago? 🙄
You checked his accuracy rate, friend? It’s not good. He makes prediction models, buddy. Well, then after they aren’t very good, he writes a ton about how they were actually great and everyone misunderstood what the data REALLY was saying.
I’m laughing you don’t seem to understand how statistics and probability work. But please, DO tell how he was wrong – I’m going to enjoy this.
But hey, excellent attempt to cop-out of the myriad of other points in my comment, buddy. Can only respond to maybe 10% of a comment but want to try to take down a leading statistician? Okie-dokie!
If Biden is the head of the ticket he’s going to lose. Full stop.
Absolutely. And given his rate of decline, how fucked are we if he suffers a medical emergency one month out?
What’s more important liberals? The United States of America or the Democratic party?
Which one would you let go of first?
Ranked Choice voting or barbarism. Take your pick. I couldn’t give a shit less what you pick to be honest. I didn’t have kids. The pain ends with me.
Pick.
wtf are you talking about?
I think he wants us to vote Trump to justify his doomerism? If things go well then he has to think about the future and act on plans, he’d rather screw up the dems than see things continue to improve under Biden. Seems to be the thinking of most the ‘I’m above politics because I’m unflinchingly negative about everything’
maybe, I mean it tracks with enlightened centrism people speaking utter nonsense while trying to sound deep and thought provoking… but it still bothers me. what does it mean to let go of the democratic party or the united states…
If you want democrats to win, you shouldn’t delude yourself with this stupid article that takes the opinion of one undecided voter (asked out of a group of about a dozen people) and pretend this is something that applies to undecided voters at large. This is copium on the level of 2016 and we’d all be better off if we didn’t huff this bullshit. We should be taking steps to improve our chances, not gaslighting ourselves.
Yeah sure!!
Dark Brandon has seen your comment and is most disappointed, he believes in us, our our country, the other guy wants to wipe his ass with it, again. Easy choice.
This is not surprising, because everyone knows Latinos are avid golfers. Why wouldn’t they support the candidate with a 6, uh, I meant 8, handicap?
At least 2 previously undecided voters now support Biden so I suppose this headline is technically correct, it’s just completely meaningless and insignificant statistically.
This comment says it better than I could. The debate was a disaster for Biden. Which sucks.
