Reason number * I’m glad I don’t live I’m america
How can you teach Bible? Which historical happening in Israel influenced what part, which pagan deity Beelzebub was, etc?
Can that head of schools lose his license for demanding this bullshit that only leads into the next dark age?
What’s the difference here between teaching the bible and teaching history? I recall getting through Hon and AP US History and Civics with and understanding of protestantism conflicts, Calvinism, and Deism. The law and mandate is bullshit, but what is the actual curriculum requirements. If you are teaching the historical content of the Bible that means you can also teach about atheists that took issue with it. Is there a lot of room for malicious compliance?
History is based on historical facts and the Bible is not.
The existence of the Bible is historical fact and artifact. There is historical merit in studying the various religious beliefs of historical peoples that factored into their values and thinking. Protestantism is factually a thing. Different colonies and denominational belief is a thing and a topic in American history. What made Quakers Quakers and how did that impact the Pennsylvania.
There’s a difference between teaching the bible, teaching theology, and teaching histories of religion. There’s definitely questions of what we are teaching and what is appropriate in public primary and secondary schools and in what subject, but I don’t think there is anything in and of itself bad if the historical religious beliefs and impact on historical civic life are discussed.
Malicious compliance is still compliance. If you concede this hill, the next one will be a requirement to teach the Bible as historical truth. And then it will be to prevent teaching actual science.
Well I think the Unions and government need to push back on this (the AG already is). I 100% believe that this should be reveresed. But reading the article it states that losing your teaching license is possible punishment. It’s really easy to be high and mighty when it’s not your livelihood and job on the line. If you need to wait it out while the courts settle it what do teachers need to do to protect their jobs, stay in compliance, and avoid retaliation until this gets settled? How many teachers already are in compliance just by teaching regular US history curriculum that says “yeah, protestants read the bible and disputes on interpretation of the bible with catholics is part of the history of America.” I think it’s important to note that the Gutenberg press published the first printed bible. With the increase of education and literacy lay people no longer had to get teachings directly from the literate Orthodoxy. This allowed to different interpretation and rise of different religions which led to conflict, etc…
Oh I completely agree with you, and I don’t begrudge anyone who’s willing to do what they have to do to keep their jobs. My point is just that fascists don’t play fair. They won’t put their hands on their hips and smirk disapprovingly at malicious compliance. They will keep stepping on your neck until you do exactly what they want without question. You know that when they say the Bible, they of course mean their interpretation of their version of a Bible of their choosing. They aren’t going to permit debate on the topic.
Cool. Sorry, I’m accustomed to being flamed on this thread for not being as liberal as the base here. Sorry if I came off super defensive. I can’t tell if the superintendent is just posturing or not. Without any curriculum definition, what does “teaching the bible” even mean. I agree his objective is probably hoping to teach christian fundametalism, but you can’t make that happen with some batshit memo by itself. I actually wish schools could teach religion in a balanced way. In a pluralistic multicultural society, it probably helps to have some background to understand basics of other religions.
No worries about coming off as defensive, I completely understand how you would read my comment as an attack. It wasn’t how I meant it, but I recognize that I was fired up about it.
The superintendent is absolutely posturing, and I don’t think he believes he will win in court. But I believe there is a chance he wins in court, especially given the number of activist conservative justices we have on the bench.
I don’t have any doubt about what he meant by “teaching the Bible,” and I am certain it had nothing to do with providing a rounded and thorough depiction of various religious and cultural practices of a pluralistic multicultural society. The guy is a christo-fascist and a bigot. He belongs in prison for trying to abuse his position in government to subjugate his constituents.
School teachers, complying with letter of the law: “Bible says there was flood. Science shows there wasn’t. Bible says diseases appeared as result of sin. Science shows diseases existed long before humans.”
I am sorry no. I don’t want this garbage taught in schools.
I’d love to see parents flabbergasted by their children refusing the shellfish daddy worked hard to buy, and making sure their clothes don’t use mixed fabrics.
when the federal government makes everything a state’s rights issue we get fifty states doing whatever the hell they want
obvious at this point Biden has either lost the reins or is intentionally letting the nation slip
very coincidental that we lost women’s rights and we have a huge surge of religious oppression at the same time a prolife religious right leaning conservative democrat gets at the helm
You’re going to blame Biden for the stance of conservatives? This is totally wrong. Right wing religious conservatives have been wanting to bring christianity back into schools for over 50 years and they have finally forced it to happen through state laws. Republicans want this and are making it happen.
I don’t know that there is much Biden can do. The Federal government can’t just tell a state no, they have to take them to court and prove that they are violating federal law. And we now have gerrymandered-to-hell legislatures violating federal law right and left and there’s only so much time and so many resources.
I’m not going to tout Biden as the greatest president ever or anything, but I can’t blame him for this. He’s not responsible for putting Ryan Walters in his position and he doesn’t have the power to get rid of him.
Biden has been a career politician longer than been alive or you perhaps
definitely blame him and all Democrats and Republicans
don’t wake up one day and magically become progressive
he always has been right leaning and his party could have been at least shouting to the rooftops about the injustices but instead just deafening silence
did he even mention this at the debates last night? how about cop city? or anything relevant?
Good Ol’ Silent Joe
This news story broke yesterday and it’s the weekend. Give him a few minutes before you denounce him for what he hasn’t done.
We have such a ridiculous instant gratification culture.
when the place you reside in is currently being threatened as is your way of life do expect the leader and chief of said place to put in an effort to say something on any platform he could as if he is our side in all this
Yes, again, I understand that you want Biden to say something the second you learned about that something, but it’s the weekend. That’s just not how things work. If Biden doesn’t say something next week, sure, criticize him. But expecting him to put out a press release or hold a press conference about a non-urgent issue over the weekend is silly.
Lol he’s been in politics for 50 years. He built this house. He helped steer the ship. He flipped the blinker and shouted shift into 5th gear.
I have no idea what on Earth you’re talking about or why that means Biden needs to make a comment on this new policy before Monday.
The guy responsible for killing Roe v Wade literally took credit for it on TV yesterday.
That kind of attitude lingers dangerously close to the everything-is-a-conspiracy-by-the-shadowy-cabal line of reasoning. Biden’s a Catholic, but it’s certainly not “obvious” that he’s “intentionally letting the nation slip”. You can scroll down barely a page on whitehouse.gov and watch the president commit to restoring the standard of Roe v Wade. It’s under the statements in favor of Pride, committing to combating gun deaths, lowering housing costs, and protecting pensions. Joe Biden’s executive orders have been the most progressive executive action since Roosevelt.
Here’s something a lot of non-religious folks might not know: the evangelical right? They hate Catholics. The MAGAs hate them ideologically, but the ones running the show hate them because the Catholic Church is their competition when it comes to running private schools and otherwise lucrative community support institutions. Biden is absolutely not on their side, theologically or otherwise.
the Catholic Church is their competition when it comes to running private schools and otherwise lucrative community support institutions
I generally agree with what you’ve written, but I think you’re assuming more pragmatism here than is actually present. Bitter hostility between Protestants and Catholics is as old as Protestantism (and much older than the institutions you mention).
Also, as a side note, there are plenty of Catholic Republicans. (37% vs 44% that identify as Democrats, according to Pew.)
his idea of committing is asking for donations and promising to look into that once the money hits a certain amount
living in the US either way feels like living in a Church fucking awful
I live in Louisiana. It’s not Joe Biden who is making this shit happen. It’s Jeff Landry and the rubber stamp legislature that are making the place into a little Iranian theocracy.
Exactly! In many parts of the country Joe Biden and the federal government in general is the only thing standing between the people and Supply-side Jesus flavored fascist autocracy.
What does Iran have to do with things?
4
Iran is an example of a theocratic state.
After reading the rest of your comments, you could’ve just saved a lot of time by saying you don’t know how the government works. And if anyone else happens to read this and think, “Hey that’s a good point,” no, it isn’t. It’s ignorant at best, actively malicious at worst. Sounds a whole lot like many of the comments trying to get people not to vote.
… religious right leaning conservative democrat …
Um, no. Biden is pretty solidly in the center, his record is a mix of left and right positions, and his positions have evolved as he’s aged. I do believe he’s religious, but he is not trying to force his religious beliefs on us like some states are currently doing with the 10 commandments bullshit.
The goal is, here, to have an accurate view of American history
By teaching bronze age fairy tales set in the Middle East.
Surely this could backfire in so many hilarious ways?
- Teach the parts that conservatives don’t do, and teach your class to call out injustice everywhere.
- Teach the bible in Aramaic or Ancient Hebrew, and give the kids 30 mins of study time to learn whatever they want from it.
- Use it as an exercise to teach that many parts were written thousands of years ago, and doesn’t have current medical or societal advancements, so that many parts might be up to interpretation.
- Compare it to Islam, Judaism, and other sects of Christianity - and teach that they’re basically the same thing and that everyone should get along.
- Reference that the pope said years ago that even nonbelievers that led a good life would be offered a seat in heaven, so be nice and it’ll all be fine.
You forgot “this is what hard-core Christians believe, this is where it contradicts itself, here are the 10 commandments including love thy neighbor and don’t worship false idols”.
You’ll get de-licensed for teaching that, too
Oh I don’t know that I would make the claim that major world religions are all about people getting along. I’d say we can find some parts that are much less friendly than that.
Why don’t we go back to Genesis. Lot is an exciting character, and tells us a lot about God’s character. And then it gets creepy too.
Also you should explain to your child students what is a prostitute
Tell them about all the fun stuff going on in sodom and gomorrah
Time for malicious compliance: "Kids, today we’re talking about two girls got their dad drunk and raped him to get pregnant.
They’ll have to be more creative, because the demand is for teachers to tell kids about the Bible’s place in U.S. history.
So I think teaching them about this might be more appropriate: https://www.npr.org/2018/12/09/674995075/slave-bible-from-the-1800s-omitted-key-passages-that-could-incite-rebellion
They might also teach about this man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin
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They might also teach about this man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin
Wow, that was an interesting read there! It seems like he may have been an influence on the character “Brother Justin” in the Carnivàle show on HBO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_Carnivàle#Brother_Justin_Crowe
He absolutely was.
Or how about how the bible was used as an excuse to try to keep Americans dumb and ignorant. An excellent example of exactly where the Bible fits into American history.
Unfortunately, these people don’t believe in evolution either.
That’s just how religions works. Our flavour just happens to be “Christian”
You say “was” like it’s not ongoing.
You should hit the erotic poetry section of the Bible, just to be sure you get all the good parts in.
Then you have to explain how her bum was like a mountain goat, and ain’t nobody want to do that.
So I have friends in Texas who have lost their license for one reason or another. This has a wider range of effect than most realize. When applying for ANY other state licensing, in any other industry, the fact that your teaching license was revoked, no matter what the reason was (it won’t say why on reports) it’s a mark against you when applying for others. All they see is oh this person HAD a state license and it got revoked so, maybe we shouldn’t grant this other one.
It’s plainly illegal, and I’m sure the goal is for SCOTUS to take it up and make it legal.
It’s plainly illegal
SCOTUS will just ignore any precedents and give the states the right to do what they want.
We’ve already seen this playbook in action.
We’ve been fools for relying on precedent.
We’ve been fools for relying on precedent.
Mullahs rule as they please, Congress can step up any time though…
It does feel like we are being held hostage at this point.
That is certainly their hope. And there is no question it will happen if Trump gets back in.
I think people are more afraid that this will function as successful brainwashing than they should be. As someone who went to grade school in OK, there is not a doubt in my mind that the kids won’t stand for this. I fully expect those per-classroom bibles to be systematically stolen and destroyed on a daily basis. I’m honestly a little envious that this didn’t happen while I was in school. It will be interesting to see the outcome, for sure. Don’t underestimate a high-schooler’s penchance for civil disobedience.
You don’t rely on logic and decency. You require them, and you sanction those who act harmfully because they ignore them.
We must stop tolerating intolerance.
they’d face the same consequences as one who refuses to teach about the Civil War
Now I’m really afraid to find out what this includes
Which is a hilarious Freudian slip on their part. Who is it that they think don’t want to teach about the Civil War? Could it be the ones who instead refer to it as the “war of northern aggression” and try to erase the context of slavery by saying it was about “states rights”?
Any of you remember Kitzmiller v. Dover? It was a case that essentially ruled that teaching ID/creationism was a theological doctrine and thus couldn’t be included in the biology curriculum of schools across the country. While the issues here at not the same (teaching creationsim vs mandatory bible studies), they have the same ideological underpinnings. Unless we’re talking about Sunday school*, schools must remain secular institutions where discussions of religions are from a neutral perspective in regards to the humanities. As to regards to a hypothetical Supreme Court case: considering how ultra-conservative the Supreme Court has become in recent years, I fear that they might side the theocrats.
*Are those still a thing?
Every time Democrats have an opportunity to increase the number of seats on the SCOTUS, they punt.
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Or begin federally indicting Justices, but I find that even less likely
I wonder if the thinking is that once the proverbial seal on that lid is broken, the next administration would just Uno-reverse it by adding more of its preferred justices?
And, it’s not like (aside from the first two damn years when it should have been done) they had a trifecta; although you could be assured Manchin or Senema(?) would have fucked them over.
I think the reason the Democrats haven’t tried to add members is the same reason that they didn’t mean to coin to handle the debt ceiling and they didn’t bother to either use or destroy the filibuster.
Many entrenched Democrats in Washington are happy to be the second worst party. That’s their identity. And it makes sense if you consider their funding source. Big money comes from big companies, and they give it to people who will represent their interests.
Setting aside the fact that this would require a Senate majority, that’s not even the worst outcome.
A broader spectrum of conservative judges means they need to triangulate across their generational and niche personal views. There is legit some amount of political space between Gorduch, Roberts, ACB, Judge Likes Beer, Uncle Thomas, and Discount Scalia.
Adding three more of them to match three more liberal judges means even more dissonance.
And who knows? Maybe we even start getting judges who didn’t fall directly out of the Harvard pipeline.
Sunday school is not a public institution, which is why it gets a pass. Similarly private schools are free to do this all week long.
I think even this supreme Court would rule the correct way. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were even unanimous, but at worst I’d expect the 6/3 split with Thomas, Goraych, and Alito. There’s only so far they can go when the Constitution was very blatantly clear on this matter.
And we should let it get a pass. Sunday School is the place to teach kids about the Bible. That’s what it’s for. That’s not what public school should be for. If parents want to indoctrinate their kids into religion, there’s no really effective way to stop it. But at least we can tamper it by keeping it out of our schools.
Agreed, and further to point out they even have private schools if they feel so compelled to indoctrinate every day of the week, we let them do that too and even allow them to claim equal credentials to a publicly regulated institution.
Can I teach ANY part of the bible?
Do the Song of Solomon.
I’m waiting for the malicious compliance stories. Any Oklahoma teachers reading, maybe reach out to The Satanic Temple for ideas.
