The reason I don’t play pvp anymore isn’t because my interest in pvp has changed. It’s because what modern pvp with its mtx/fomo is. I don’t want to play dress up or roleplay. I don’t want to have fidget spinner style idle animations. I don’t want to walk across huge maps only to get sniped and have to wait 10 minutes for a respawn. I don’t want edgy/try hard “character” dialog for the classes.
Yep. I hate saying this, but 2004-2009 World of Warcraft was almost the perfect game. The PvP was imbalanced, but battlegrounds were usually pretty fun. Die? Just wait 30 seconds.
We also got to play WITH other people, not against them, and we all played in this really great world with a fantastic story.
It’s a shame WoW decided to go the way of tokens and a story written by a rich kid, edgy teenage theater club. Would have kept playing it to this day.
Come to FFXIV! We have decent stories, a voluntary PvP arena with multiple modes, and cat girls!
I played FF14 for a while, and it was fun. My issue is previous expansions should be allowed to be abridged or full. I have several classes at level cap and just started Shadowbringers, and it’s a thousand “kill 10 boar” quests, and then a ridiculously good story.
Just let us play the story parts.
Yeah, the side quests are rather unimaginative in their tasks. For the most part they’re not worth doing unless you want a bit more of a dive into the world lore. (A few give unique rewards, though.) Even some story quests are “player does menial chores for good karma with the locals because the devs need to pad things out a bit.”
Shadowbringers is worth it, though. It’s my personal favorite story arc. Endwalker, the one after, is my second favorite.
Good to know, I might give it another shot. I bought it and Endwalker when it was in prerelease and played it a few hours a night sporadically during the week. Didn’t realize I needed to play through four Final Fantasy games to get to the “Endgame”
I figured it was like WoW where once you got to level cap you just kind of walked into the endgame scenario and went for it.
Interesting take. I’m Gen X, and when online play came about it was amazing after so many years of singleplayer games, or games that your opponent had to be physically present to play on another controller next to you. So to reject online play to me seems…odd.
That said, I think online and always-online have done a lot of damage to gaming, from DRM to loss of physical ownership to loss of good singleplayer storylines in triple-A games.
That, and your total lack of ownership of online-only games. The constant treadmill of, “Oh, did you have fond memories of playing Game X? Want to play it again? Too bad, Microsoft/Blizzard/EA/Activision/whoever turned off the servers so now your disc is tantamount to a coaster.”
An old man yelling at clouds I may be, but you know what? I stick a cartridge into my Nintendo and the fucker just plays. Every time.
I love couch co op and single player. Online is great im sure but I despise that it has taken over gaming, ruined GTA
Yep. The preference for online-only games like PUBG, Apex, or others where it has removed fun, deep, single player campaigns like GTAV that used to be the hallmark of a good game has definitely done serious damage to the gaming we used to know.
Best games I have played across the last few gens have been god of war, hitman, lotr shadow games, Jedi games and when I enjoy a game like fall guy all I want is to play locally with my wife.
The main issue for me is that the amount of time I would have to put into a game to get good enough to not get shit on in pvp kills the enjoyment. I played a ton of destiny 2 and was still solidly mediocre at pvp. My first 2 games of Squad I don’t think I got a single kill. Pubg was just miserable starting out. Never gonna touch warthunder.
You’re absolutely right. If you don’t have time to invest in getting good at multiplayer, pvp can be frustrating at best. I’ve got thousands of hours invested in my preferred game and I’m pretty damn good, I’m very competitive, but even I quit a game occasionally because of other players.
Despite the gaming community’s constant rhetoric that “nobody cheats, git gud kid, learn how to aim”, cheating is rampant. From players that abuse aim assist with devices like the chronos max to just good old-fashioned aimbots, they can ruin anyone’s game, even mine. And even I quit games when players are so obviously using artificial aim assists that it’s just not fun, and popular FPS shooters are the prime targets for cheaters. Even if you are good, there’s more than enough people willing to wreck your game.
I much prefer co-op multiplayer to pvp and co-op in a game I’m interested in is rare.
So yeah mostly singleplayer.
I always enjoy co-op when I actually do it, but nowadays I just can’t commit to the long gaming sessions like i used to.
Worse, I feel kind of beholden to help the other players have a good time. Which can be fun, but but when my introvert battery is low, that is the last thing I want out of my game.
It’s not a great feeling when you want to leave, but you’re sticking around because you don’t want to quit mid chapter or whatever.
Probably not healthy to want to get out of innocuous little social situations all the time hahaha oh well
I’m roughly on the same boat. A format I’ve come to enjoy is streaming a pausable strategy game with a group of friends and taking decisions collectively (so if the game is Frostpunk, we’re basically the oligarchy that’s deciding how much is the working class going to slave away and how many deaths are acceptable), but it’s hard to find stable friend groups that like it.
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PVP is only fun when I’m good at it and that takes time. The last PVP game I was heavily into, it took me a year just to get decent. It wasn’t until the third year when I felt like I was above average.
I don’t get this.
I was playing PVP games in 1993. On the Internet.
I played my first offline video game in 1983.
Most video games I play today are offline on my phone, with a few PVP games in the browser on my computer.
What does being a millennial have to do with any of that?
OP seems to imply they’re unfamiliar with the idea of playing games with other people at all, as if multiplayer games weren’t a thing before the internet.
Earliest game I played over the net was probably Diablo followed by an addiction to Ultima Online. Still ended up on WoW for a year and then swore off MMOs ever since
I still play pvp games mixed in regularly with single player. Chivalry 2 is cathartic and some CoD from time to time.
For single player I like paradox stuff and open world survival crafts. Satisfactory and automatic are also like crack.
Thanks for listening to my Ted talk that no one asked for.
I swore off after ultima online, summer 99 and thankfully never picked up WoW. Then only very very casual console gaming into the millennium and nothing else until 5 or so years back when I started playing multi-player Civ V with group of friends. Now I probably have played more hours of Civ V than any game since Diablo 1 but I’m also 40 and have 3 kids lol. Time is a circle apparently.
he doesn’t want to play with you george
I also think he’s wrong but he is talking about young millennials. I’m a young millennial. I was born in 1993. This post is not about you.
That’s my point. The post could easily apply to me and I’m not a young millennial, or a millennial at all. There’s no correlation.
Ah gotcha. Honestly I think what the poster is referring to is comparing himself the boomers/alphas… fortnight, Roblox etc etc being so wildly popular
To be fair, Millennials tend to forget us Gen-Xers exist almost as much as the Boomers do. The crazy thing these days though is that outspoken millennials still think of Boomers as being anyone over the age of 40. The youngest boomer is 60 this year. The youngest millennial is 40.
[edit]. I thought “surely I couldn’t have written ’youngest millennial’ — and there it is. Oldest. Oldest millennial.”
Gen x is known as the lost generation for a reason.
The youngest millenial is not 40 … there are millennials in their late 20s. That would be maybe youngest gen X? Did you forget about Gen X?
No, I wrote youngest instead of oldest. And you’re the first person to both catch it and comment. Added an edit :)
I kind of figured but it was really funny given the context 😂😂
Well younger kids do seem to be more obsessed with multi-player. I can’t get any of my kids to play single player games.
And that’s how the publishers want it because there’s a lot more money to be made in online
Don’t act like a d-bag. Most kids before 1998 didn’t even have internet at home, and most kids in the 90’s were console gamers. Not PC.
Also, no, I’m not full of shit. US census data shows 18% of households had the internet in 1997, and if you don’t remember that most kids and teens around were gaming on consoles then you either lived under a rock, or you’re on here right now lying about your age.
Quake 2 and warcraft 2!
Connected by serial cables and hoping you got the IRQs correct!
We did Warcraft 2 and duke nukem with some Doom mixed in
Actually, the first PVP game I played was NetTrek in 1990 — forgot about that one. We generally didn’t start calling them PVP games until 1993-ish.
I spent a lot of time on MUDs in the 90s too…. They generally had mobkill and PVP zones.
Pong came earlier
Lots of things came earlier. I’m just trying to figure out what being a “young millennial” has to do with a preference for vs computer games. We gen-x-ers were playing PVP games before young millennials were born. Atari was a staple of our childhood. Nintendo multitap was a thing in 1985.
same bro.
i tried league of legends in 2012 and it was ass. i left and never looked back. every time i hear about people having a miserable time in league, i laugh, because i dodged a massive bullet.
I have never heard someone who plays league a lot talk about it as an enjoyable experience, but the sunk cost fallacy keeps them there.
Dude I’m 53 and this is exactly me (so mid gen-x?). I’ve been playing video games since I was 8 (of course back then it was pong and an Atari 2600). I hate the toxicity of any online play.
The problem I have with pvp games is they are very shallow compared to single player games. Most pvp games also tend to be shooters which by definition are shallow in gameplay.
I usually get bored of the gameplay loops of pvp games long before I get tired of the pvp aspects themselves. Just take a look at counter strike, Valorant, Fortnite, etc. Not much variance in the gameplay loop. I get bored of that shit really quick.
On the other hand a single player game like rimworld, factorio, battle brothers……Their gameplay loops are complex and still bring be varied interesting gameplay even 1000 hours later.
It’s because the developers rely on the players to make the content. You either end up with a shallow experience like looter shooters, or a dystopian hellscape like Eve Online where only the people playing the longest with the most sociopathic traits end up controlling the entire game board.
Either way, it’s not a fun experience. They act like you matter, that your choices mean something, but they don’t have any impact at all. It’s even less than a PvE game like BG3 where your choices dictate the playthrough.
Eve online is a good example of a good pvp system. At least your fighting has meaningful outcomes. A 5v5 in an arena game like CS has zero meaningful outcome.
If you pay attention the landscape is always changing in Eve. Big empires are constantly being challenged and the chess board is constantly changing.
Say what you want about Eve online. I don’t play it anymore. I don’t have the time for it. But I wish more developers were interested in making games like this instead of going for the esports trend. Clearly the money is in esports. I guess that’s what people prefer. I don’t tho. I think it’s boring.
The last big thing that happened was that WWB2 and then CCP changing the rules through the whole war to make sure Goons survived. Eve Online is a fucking joke.
I get what you are saying, it would be neat if more devs went this way with a player driven landscape portion of the game along with a PvE area. There just isn’t money in it like CS skins.
Can confirm. I spent over 15 years in EvE, and only had PvP forced on me 7 or 8 times in that entire period. No rollercoaster or race track has given me an adrenaline rush like having my Rorquals dropped on by some stealth bombers and interceptors.
I still get twitchy if I hear the words, “Check check.”
Oh yeah, the other thing that I just don’t understand is that people say that EvE players are toxic. Yes they want to kill you, but they are the friendliest bunch of murderous assholes ever. In my experience, if they kill a newbee, and the newbee doesn’t become horribly toxic about it, they’ll normally end up reimbursing you for your loss, sometimes several times over.
RIP Vile Rat o7
The variance is the PvP itself. No 2 players are exactly the same. I’m not a fan of PvP any more but as someone who’s put hours into PvP focused games, calling them shallow and unvaried is the exact opposite of true. Most of them have crazy high skill ceilings, which is why they can be competitive in the first place
The variance is the PvP itself.
Exactly. To me that gets repetitive and it isn’t all that interesting if that is all there is to it. PvP for the sole purpose to pvp is only so fun for so long. For me anyway. That goes triple for shooters where there is no meaningful outcome to winning or losing. Grinding rank in a competitive game isn’t interesting at all when the game play loop is simple. I’m talking games like counter strike.
I don’t have the time for it because the time investment is MASSIVE but the most interesting and fun pvp game for me was Eve online.
Lots and lots of pvp with huge losses. But the purpose and outcome of the pvp had devastating effects to the economical and geopolitical atmosphere in the region you were fighting in.
You weren’t fighting just to fight. Don’t get me wrong there was plenty of skirmishing. Lots of pointless and meaningless fights. Although they weren’t completely meaningless as every loss was a resource dump for the loser. Enough of those and an opponent might flee the region putting the war on hold to rebuild resources. War is real. There was something bigger in the game that was affected by your fighting.
I wish there were more games like Eve online. I want the pvp I engage in to be meaningful and have lasting effect on the overall game. That’s what keeps me engaged and striving.
The problem to me is that the vast majority of games have meaningless pvp. It’s an esports thing I guess. I don’t care for esports. I want engaging pvp. Esports isn’t it.
The problem I have with pvp games is they are very shallow compared to single player games. Most pvp games also tend to be shooters which by definition are shallow in gameplay.
That’s another thing I dislike about most PVP games. I like games for the story, even if I have to build it myself. I play shooters on the lowest difficulty so that I can enjoy the story. But PVP doesn’t have that.
After MW2 (the new one) I realized that I don’t have fun anymore with online PvP with strangers. Back in the day on Black Ops 2 I did voice impressions and shenanigans. I remember on PSN I would cut up with strangers and they would just randomly add me. After the PS4 and Xbox One, everyone plays in their own parties and the only ones in voice chat are eating too loud, neglecting their children, playing shitty music, or are try hards about to blow a blood vessel.
most publishers PvP games are a live service now and want you to treat it like a second job and play nothing else or you get left behind. I’m not about that life anymore I guess.
i don’t think I’m a younger millennial but I’m the same. always played videogames, just not mp.
Generally millennials born after 1989 would fall into the “younger millennial” catagory.
The difference between old millennial and young millennial is how much of the 90s you actually remember because you were old enough to form memories, and not just the kind of made up memories you invent from looking back on old photos and trying to imagine the stories your parents told you about your childhood.
so I’m definitely not a younger millennial. still works for me, though.
I’m firmly Gen X, but I feel the same. The only PvP system that I ever liked was EvE Online
that makes more sense the younger you are the more likely you should be to enjoy multiplayer games.
Did you just call me young?
no. i meant you’re older than me so it makes sense that you don’t really like mp games. the younger you are the more likely you’ll grow up with mp games. i didn’t grow up with them so most of them are pointless to me. i have enjoyed overwatch a lot though in the last 8 years.
I mean the first online MP game I played was Descent when I was 14. Then Neverwinter Nights when I was 14 or 15? I had been playing multiplayer games against my brothers and friends since I could form memories.
I don’t think it’s just because of my age, I fundamentally find a lot of the online MP game loops unrewarding, and always have. Co-op MP has always been more my jam. There’s something extremely satisfying about seeing someone try to attack me, and being able to call my friends in as a hammer to just fuck their day entirely, while I just keep mining like nothing is happening.
I am a geriatric millennial (thanks to whoever coined that term btw) and I am also like this.
A real millennial would call it an STD
Yeah, when did this change?
I think about 10-15 years ago, I first heard about it. I think it was changed because they realized some things that were STDs were not actually diseases but infections. More of a pedantic difference I guess. I could not tell you what the difference is between a disease and infection.
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I relate to this so much.
My joints hurt too much for competitive gameplay anyway.
Every competitive game today is a sweatfest (I’d be part of that if I was decent).
I don’t have the natural skill to be good right off the bat, and I don’t have the time to make up for that skill gap, and I have a tendency to get hooked on competition.
So there isn’t anything good that can come of it for me.
You mean the wrist on your dominant hand?
For me is the shoulder. No more counter strike for this old man :(
It was a “you masturbate so much, you ruined your wrist” type of joke
Do most people masturbate with their dominant hand? I don’t, but I think that is because my left hand is my fine motor skills hand, and my right hand is my gross motor skills hand. I.E. I can write, and eat with my left hand but not my right hand, but I catch, and throw things with my right hand.
Non-dominant hand only on Sundays and holidays.
These old knees just can’t handle banging around in Rocket League like they used to.
