Shocker, few can relate to an octogenarian running for office.
When faced with fascism, the relatability of the alternative is important. Gotcha.
Decisions are made on the margins.
Unfortunately, in part, it does
That’s how voters are. Democrats love to stomp their feet and say, "But voters should vote the way we tell them to, because we’re right!"
Okay, maybe you are right, but if you want those votes, you have to give people what they want. And one of the things they want is a candidate who can speak.
Lots of people have a problem accepting that what’s “right” and “should happen” doesn’t mean jack shit. Just because your point is correct doesn’t mean others have to acknowledge or give a fuck
Politics is like a pendulum. The further it swings one way the further back the correction is after the results are realized.
I don’t think the US can become a fascist nation. The business oligarchs have too much power and would quickly remove anyone who would be anything more than a puppet to control.
I mean, a core component in fascism is massive overlap between control of the government and the control of private interest, in return for politically backing fascists. Lobbying accompanied by mass privatization, basically. I think Mussolini is most infamous for this, but it also happened with Hitler. So, I dunno if that’s really a limiting factor.
How well have they done controlling donnie?
Also, I keep seeing the kind of politicians we get going further and further right, even though most Americans poll progressive on the issues, so I think money has a lot of power to consistently distort things and put the thumb on the scales such that it favors the radical right.
It has nothing to do with his age. His brain is on vacation. Bernie Sanders is older than Biden, but if he were the nominee we’d see the same enthusiasm as we’re seeing for Harris.
This is the way. Age is just a number. Until it isn’t. Biden could probably, with all the team around him, finish out a second term. But the demands of looking sharp in situations like debates (which are not really great tests for doing the job, but it’s part of the performative bullshit clown show we put on for the low information voters and they will decide elections in our stupid system) was going to sink any chance of him winning this fall.
And Bernie apparently has all his faculties and has the EQ to understand the plight of many Americans. Counting someone like Bernie out only because of the number of times they went around the sun? Impossibly stupid. And, as I keep emphasizing, more and more likely to become entirely irrelevant as things like age reversal come online.
I wanted Bernie in 2016 but the dem party leadership decided no on him. I think he would have crushed dumpy. I can totally see him showing up dumpy on the debate floor in place of Biden, but I don’t think he should run in 2024. Wish he was the pick in 2020.
Less meh?
You mean they are showing less voter apathy
You mean they are showing less voter apathy
No, it means they are demonstrating a decrease in emotional detachment from the civil and democratic process of advocating for leadership.
emotional detachment from the civil and democratic process
Now I am curious how you define voter apathy
Who could’ve told
Don’t believe the hype, FUCKING VOTE!!! Volunteer to give rides for those that can’t make it to vote otherwise.
Yes, I was like “Oh, thank christ” when i saw this headline, but also fear this is right propaganda to relax voters. VOTE!
Believe this hype; You can make a difference.
I lived in Florida in 2000. If I had recruited a couple friends, and I knew people who would have been down, and we drove vans back and forth to the polls all day…
512 votes would have made a difference.
Awesome job!
What I mean by don’t believe the hype is people tend to not vote when they think they’re going to win in a landslide. Which of course, they would IF they vote. We ended up with Dementia Don the racist rapist with 34 felonies that can’t complete a coherent sentence because Hillary was kicking his ass in the polls so voter turnout was lower.
Regardless, VOTE
On a side note: Just the fucking fact that people would need a ride to vote also shows that
a) Voting is too damn hard in the US. I know that the Republican party has been working (and keeps working) hard on making voting nearly impossible, because less votes is better for them, but seriously: make voting easier.
b) The US is extremely over dependent on cars. In the Netherlands almost nobody would drive their car to go vote, you use a bike. Why? Because the cities in the country are designed for people first, not for cars first. Start modifying your cities to not require cars. Add bicycle roads, actually invest in public transportation, add pedestrian walk ways. The US sucks for human beings, it’s awesome for cars.
Voting is too damn hard in the US.
It’s too damn hard in certain states.
I’m in California, and am signed up for vote by mail, which anyone can do. Ballot gets mailed to me well in advance, I can take my time filling it out and researching down ballot issues, and plop it in a mailbox when I’m done.
It’s criminal to me that this isn’t the norm.
I live in Colorado, and I feel the same way about this. I love the way voting works here. This should be the norm. It should be REQUIRED at the federal level that this is an offering in every state in the land.
Any state that is not doing this does not care at all about the democratic process, IMHO, given there are outstanding examples of states that do.
There are loads of states that don’t want democracy, they want a theocratic republican dictatorship and if they can’t get that through voting they’ll get it through cheating, just like Jesus taught them.
Voting is bullshit here, thanks to the republikkklowns. I’m hoping when the VP becomes president, we can remedy some of that.
Your point on the cars. Your example country is 237 times smaller than ours. .42%. We have 342 million people compared to their almost 19 million. What works there won’t work here. It would be great to step up public transportation but that’s not the end all answer.
Nonsense. India’s population is far greater than the US, and they can do better elections than the US. Saying that you can’t do bicycle roads in the US because what works in the Netherlands doesn’t work in bigger countries is, again, nonsense. Mexico is adding bicycle roads. Canada is. Why can’t the US?
Where the hell are you? My city just added a bunch of bike roads, but that’s going to work great in the country isn’t it? Nothing like riding a bike twenty miles to town to grab some groceries and ride back in the rain or snow.
The vast majority of the population lives in small, medium, and large cities where you can easily commute the < 1.5kilometer / 1 mile walking, or the < 10 kilometers / < 6 miles on a bike Whether you go to work, a store, whatever, that’s easy for the vast majority of people world wide. If done well, public transportation would be a great option for larger distances.
I’m not advocating banning cars outright, I’m advocating pushing sustainable transportation, we can reduce traffic by 70-80%, it’s a huge chunk of CO2
This is what I did for the 2018 midterms. Some of my friends didn’t really get why I was so adamant, but I dropped their assess at the church and let them vote. It do work.
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Still trying to find something that sticks, huh?
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This is a refreshing change of pace. Usually I get called a shill for not being on board with Bidenyahu’s genocide.
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It’s hilarious watching Trumpists flail because they weren’t prepared for Biden to step down.
It’s sad watching how easily money can
influencecontrol public opinion.Can’t overtly call me a shill, so you’re obliquely calling me a shill.
Keep flailing for some attack that will land. It’s hilarious.
Removed, see the new civility addendum.
They can “meh” all they want, no vote—no voice.
It’s that smug attitude that got us Biden. Democrats win or lose by convincing the meh people that it’s worth their time to go vote. If they don’t go vote trump wins so they literally can’t go meh all they want if Democrats wants to win.
They need to be more invested in their primary, mid-term, and local elections. That is the time for people to decide for better than “meh” choices. Too many people sit out of such a large part of the process. That said, I am also for throwing out first past the post too.
People of all ages have a lot to do and very little extra time to devote to things like understanding political issues or learning about candidates. What America needs is “democracy day off.”
I think every Monday should be a demoncracy day: like the Sabbath, we keep it holy and do no work that makes a person or company money. Instead, everyone is required to pick one of a few available activities: meeting with local councils to discuss issues and vote, reading up on laws and candidates and issues (hopefully to report to a council about it), or civic improvements like park cleanup or elder care. This isn’t comprehensive, just trying to give the flavor of it.
Maybe if Americans finally learned how to do actual freedom we could let people choose their democracy day to spread it out through the week. The core idea is simply that we need to mandate and regulate that so many hours per person per month will be devoted exclusively to the project of maintaining our society.
Hell, once a month alone would be super helpful too. Curious about how many people would take advantage though. I get that many people have busy lives, but if we could even get the people who only vote every 4 years to vote in every election possible, that would be a huge uptick in participation.
I could compromise and start with 1 day a month. And yeah, obviously election days are extra democracy days that everyone gets paid time off from work to vote.
What kind of unserious country would force people to work slave’s hours to make ends meet and would then hold elections during the work week at times where millions of poor laborers would be unable to vote? That sounds like a fake democracy.
You’re not going to win by saying “the actual election is your obligation, if you had policies you were interested in you should have tried to get a different person in the primary”. The whole reason candidates change after the primary (often diving to the center) is to get votes from people that didn’t vote for them. That applies to primary voters for other candidates and people who don’t make politics a priority in their lives.
Pretty sure I just said they need to vote.
Would you like to break down your comment and point to the part where you said that?
No vote, no voice.
If you want to have your voice heard—which they do—you have to vote. Even if the options aren’t amazing, you have to help guide it in the right direction. They right wing loves it when their competition is “meh”
In case you missed it, the “You will take what we give you and pretend to like it” approach failed.
Did anyone else credible run in this primary or submit their names to the convention for nomination? Why do you think no one submitted their names?
And yet, we were on track to losing until the party listened to people who were upset at the shit choice we had before us.
I’m glad your shit candidate stepped down and we got a better one.
Well, Biden got elected so I’ll say it didn’t fail. What we need is a better voting system, and until that happens we have to understand that’s the world we live in, and work with what we’ve got.
This election cycle has been like “no, you’re not getting a real primary, vote as your told and like it.”
Until it became so clear that it was a losing strategy that even Democrats abandoned it.
“No vote no voice” implies that voters have a voice. Until Biden stepped down, they functionally didn’t.
You may have liked him, but I’m glad we have someone who stands a chance of winning instead of the guy party leadership wants.
The meh people are the ones doing this.
I remember when I was young and dumb.
Right, now you are just dumb. Go ahead and vote for a convicted rapist who was best friends with a child sex trafficker.
We are not going to forget this time period. You guys are digging your heels in the sand after finding out what he is. You guys will literally support a felon before you wake up from the cult’s haze. We will remember this. You will not get to simply forget that this ever happened like all the people who said we should be going to Iraq. You will be ridiculed, rightfully
You will be on a list as a supporter of fascism so employers can weed you guys out. You will be second class citizens for your attempt at installing a dictatorship in the United States of Americ
Consider that getting off easy
Former President Donald TRUMP:
“And again, Christians, get out and vote!” he said to a cheering audience. “Just this time. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years. You know what? It’ll be fixed! It’ll be fine! You won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians. I love you, Christians! I’m a Christian. I love you. Get out. You gotta get out and vote. In four years, you don’t have to vote again.”
I am willing to die to prevent fascism from taking hold in this nation.
Does a word that is recognized in the dictionary need quotes?
Does a question about whether or not a word recognized by the dictionary needs quotes need to be asked?
Maybe it indicates that that is what those people would have said about voting previously
Am I the only one sad because a “serious” publication allows a headline with “meh” instead of apathetic?
I certainly hope you are.
It’s in quotes, so I think they made it clear they were quoting something the young people might say.
I don’t know if they’re right that the 18-35s use that word very often, but I think that’s what they’re going for.
30yo here, I usually only use it to answer questions where I’m apathetic about the choices
What are you feeling for dinner? Meh🤷
Do 18 y/o’s actually say that though? I think the journalist might be taking into the trap of trying to be relevant to kids by saying shit we said when we were kids.
18? Yeah I doubt it
You’re not alone, there are hundreds of Lemmy users who hold equally vocal opinions over details irrelevant to the point.
Seriousness is a plague.
She should just pick Clooney as VP so we can be done with it already.
Keanu Reeves
ACT 1, The GOP kills his puppy…
That would just be unfair to the Republicans, so definitely the best choice
It would be hard to attack Keanu without looking like a douche
Amal Clooney, preferably. That lady is a major badass.
Though I think putting two women on the ticket would be a death knell unfortunately.
Mostly joking, I don’t think she’s an American citizen.
Though I think putting two women on the ticket would be a death knell unfortunately.
doubtful; harris/whitmer would be great; but whitmer has already ruled it out
Would be a great team, absolutely. But this is the United States. Getting one woman elected at that level is difficult enough. Unfortunately there are lots of people who would stay home if it’s an all-woman ticket.
Sucks but it’s true.
If you felt “meh” about doing the utmost to avoid Trump, you might just be an idiot,
Young people are not renowned for their wisdom.
Their elders have done such a bang up job, eh. So much wisdom and here we all are blaming and knocking young people having to inherit all this bullshit.
speak for yourself
Yeah, kids are allowed to vote (and go off to war, and get themselves into crippling debt) at 18 but their decision making doesn’t mature until after they’re 25. Maybe adulthood should start a little later.
Something, something, rent a car. I definitely had something for this. Come back to me.
I can imagine it. I probably have made the same argument.
Neither are boomers, but we’ve spent the past 4 decades doing every last thing those shitheels want.
not really.
Then who have we been listening to? The party has been gleefully ignoring anyone who didn’t watch the moon landing live.
Until just recently when Biden stepped aside.
Voting is not your utmost. It’s the bare minimum.
To whoever downvoted this: You won’t make it in life.
Yes, but. Let’s not circle the firing squad.
Not before they have voted.
Remember, if they’re voting in their first election this year, there’s a decent chance they were under ten before Trump emerged on the scene as a politician. They don’t remember what it used to be like. They think this is normal.
Shit, you’re absolutely right but I never thought about it that way.
Jesus, we’ve let these kids down. This is all they’ve known through their adolescence…
Jesus, we’ve let these kids down.
Yes, and people call them idiots for wanting better than a Hobson’s choice between “genocide” and “more genocide.”
Just look at what happened when someone listened to them.
but but “gene o’side” LMAO
Thank you for the illustration of my point. Biden isn’t running anymore. You can abandon your support for genocide. If you want to.
You mean real genocide or tankie illusional genocide? Because I’ll never support real muthafuckin’ G, but always point out the delusions of American antisemites like yourself.
You are glad that Netanyahu is committing genocide.
Like all centrists.
There will be an entire branch of psychology opened up for kids who were born between 2006-2021. War, climate change, Trump, COVID, more war, more war? On its own, the fact that they’re not spending every waking hour in ceaseless screaming is worth writing a few papers on.
aka the dumbest take.
I mean…lots of kids have had to deal with worse…my main frustration is that we could have given them so much better with relative ease.
My grandparents were born in the 30s, growing up in the Great Depression (all but one, who had the awful luck to be born in the Philippines, and instead of the depression, got to experience brutal Japanese occupation). That’s far worse than what American kids as a demographic are growing up with now, but that was entirely out of the hands of their parents to avoid.
I feel like for today’s teens, it’s not that bad, but it’s bad because of selfishness and greed rather than huge national or global tragedy.
I don’t know that the two events are particularly comparable. The misery level might be higher for people like your grandparents, but the fact that some of what’s going on now is happening inside the house during Thanksgiving dinner and another good chunk of it is being shown and talked about on YouTube as it happens, and a lot of people who are supposed to be protecting them aren’t… The circumstances, access, and response is worse, even if the misery itself isn’t as bad.
Still, I guess that illuminates how the “suffering Olympics” isn’t super helpful to these discussions. Every generation has something, and just because another generation also suffered doesn’t mean that this generation’s suffering is invalid.
maybe your worldview is a liiiitle bit too US-centric, or at least too 1st-world centric? Ah, don’t worry your mediocre little head about it!
We’re literally talking about young US voters. This thread is about US politics. I recognize that Americans’ americentrism online runs the gamut from annoying to problematic to outright jingoistic, but in this case I’m pretty sure I accurately recognized the topic at hand. Surely well enough not to merit an ad hominem.
Fucking yikes. That’s terrifying.
Biden wasn’t the utmost to avoid Trump.
Absolutely doing my part, id love to see him fail again & the Republican party get cold feet supporting him next time around as a two time failure
Oh, some good news. Finally!
Kinda. In the two-party first-past-the-post system, they were still not convinced they should vote which could actively make their futures worse. Knowing why that alone wasn’t a motivating factor (unless this is all people who want to vote AGAINST Harris (which I highly doubt)) is definitely worth exploring.
In the two-party first-past-the-post system, they were still not convinced they should vote which could actively make their futures worse.
Who knew that regarding them with undisguised contempt wasn’t convincing?
That’s true, but it doesn’t stop this from being good news
… and the following 4 years the young voters will learn that votes would be forbidden, if they changed anything. :-P
Harris would not be where she is w/o support from the elite, even if she wanted, she cannot change the system.
Anyway, hope she gets elected, so I don’t have to suffer Trump news every single day (like now). It’s worth it for that alone, so go and vote, citizens!
(Edited for clarity)
Fundamentally I agree that only we can change the system.
But she doesn’t seem nearly as pro Israel as Biden and Trump. That makes a huge difference. I can hold my nose to vote for a corporate servant, but I won’t compromise on genocide. There will eventually be no one left to speak out for us.
Wtf… So you would prefer trump over Biden because Biden is too pro Israel in your eyes? What is wrong with you ?
No, I prefer anyone with less than the full throated Israel support that Trump and Biden offered.
Well, Biden is out but the point still stands. Saying you wouldn’t vote Biden is akin to saying you want trump, you genocide loving asshats.
Sorry, my initial comment was unclear so I revised it. I’m against the genocide, and will now vote Democrat because Harris is against it.
You think they are equal?
No
I hope she picks a good VP and not wet blanket like democratic establishment would want.
Tim waltz seems like a good pick. Seems to have a bit of the Bernie, no-bullshit, authenticity that plays well with independents.
Walz is a great governor. I don’t want to lose him as one, but I do think he’d be a great pick
We get Peggy Flanagan as a replacement. She rocks. Bonus points for getting a native American female governor as well
I think Tim Waltz would be a great pick. Full authenticity. A no nonsense and non flashy Midwestern white democrat from a rural district who lead a surprisingly progressive agenda. Count me in
Timmy has been a great governor for our state.
That’s actually why I don’t want her to pick him. He’s been a great governor and I want him to stay here.
So great
My preference is as follows:
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Mark Kelly - Pros: Astronaut/Navy Combat Pilot; will pull veterans and people voting for novelty. He generally has moderate policies and won a national race in a battleground state. His Senate seat is safe because Gov. Hobbs (D) can appoint another Dem to fill it.
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Pete Buttigieg - Also a veteran, oxford/rhodes scholar; one of the best debaters in D.C. Coming from a Cabinet position so does not risk any loss.
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Whitmer - Contrary to some, I like the idea of doubling-down on women in this post-Roe, MeToo era. She brings a lot to the table, but she’s no longer in the running as she (a) both publicly and privately declined, and (b) she like Shapiro would be better off carrying their respective battleground states without either state feeling like they’ve been abandoned.
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Jon Stewart - He won’t do it, but hear me out: Viral excitement; strong debater; cross-over appeal to veterans & first-responders thanks to his decades of helping them. The Zelenskyy of our nation. Counter lies and half-truths with satire and mockery.
I DON’T think Harris should pick Cooper, Beshear, Walz, or especially Newsom.
Mark Kelly was one of the people giving standing ovations and clapping away at Bibi’s speech to Congress. That really made my stomach churn.
… Ah yeah, that is kind of a bummer.
It’s fucking so obvious that it boggles my mind that people are still gunning for him and buttigieg and shapiro. They are all power-hungry neoliberal freaks, I don’t understand how this is really in contention at this point. Basically the only thing she can do on the campaign trail is talk, and appoint a rather meaningless VP slot to show her allegiance to some kind of politics that actually gets people out and voting. If she chooses some moderate scumbag because they’re in a swing state, that’s like the fastest way for her to piss away all the good will she’s built up so far. It’s crazy, I don’t understand it.
Mark Kelly looks good on paper, but his pro genocide and lukewarm stance towards unions is a wet blanket. Do people find him genuine?
People, no. Democratic bots, yes.
lol I love that I have both these accounts tagged as suss tankies.
Lol, I’m an anarchist.
Love when y’all tell on yourselves though.
Ah yes, how reassuring. Thanks, I’ll update my tag.
This is a good list.
Mark Kelly is my favorite option too. If nothing else he is cool as hell and has that “great to have a beer with” quality. He’s also very white. None of these things should matter but he’s a great balancing choice for her presidency.
I like your list. I think Mark Kelly is the obvious best choice and I hope she lands on him. Novelty factor is strong, it would be foolish to underestimate the astronaut card. He balances the ticket well and might also help win Arizona.
Jon Stewart would be absolutely hilarious, though. If nothing else than for a potential VP debate with alleged couch fornicator Vance.
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Bernie Stewart 2028! Or Stewart Colbert 2028?
AOC Stewart 2028
John Stewart would be history’s ultimate press secretary.
Thank you for not including Shapiro and not risking a swing state getting a Republican governor
That guy has such an unfortunate name. I hear Shapiro and I immediately think of the right-wing pseudo-intellectual professional troll Ben Shapiro and wonder why the fuck would anybody want him on a ticket. I’m learning to not have such a visceral reaction to the name, but association is a bitch to overcome.
Mark Kelly is a great choice. Kamala needs someone who can win over the vets. Apparently Captain Bone Spurs still holds some sway with them.
Veterans are now a critical voting block for the Democrats? Not “young people” or “Hispanic voters”? Veterans?
I wouldn’t call them critical, no, but every vote matters. Especially in a demographic like former armed services. They represent a collective of voters across all 50 states and their voting trends are pretty unified in solidarity for candidates that recognize them and cater to their issues and interests. Sure, some are party hardliners and will vote D or R no matter what, that’s true of any homogeneous group of people.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/118684/military-veterans-ages-tend-republican.aspx
Every vote matters, but every voting bloc isn’t equally valuable to pursue. Whenever I’ve been on a military base with a TV running, there’s a 90%+ chance it’s playing Fox News. Trump called John McCain a loser for being captured and they voted for him anyway. If a veteran VP was going to turn the tides, there are already dynamics that would have a much greater impact.
Especially when he’s like the exact opposite of Benny boy. Maybe it would work in the opposite direction, though: People think it’s actually Ben Shapiro and vote for Harris because they think there’s some conspiracy to take over the presidency.
Honestly, I’d change my name.
Yeah I like all the battleground state governors, but I think for that reason, and for letting them continue to successfully run these states helps carry them. You also don’t want state residents to feel abandoned or used with them leaving for VP. They’re instrumental right where they are.
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It appears she’s looking at people who could swing a purple state, so that probably won’t excite anyone hoping for a progressive ticket.
Almost as if you need to win before you can do anything at all.
Like it or not, the reality of the electoral college.
You can win in multiple different ways, not simply picking a purple state moderate. The whole reason there’s a story about “more youth voters like Harris” is because more youth voters could help her win. And the youths notably live in every swing state.
Smoke and mirrors. Right now we need the clearest path to victory, not a path. The Right has their strengths and one of them is throwing wrenches into things. Can’t throw a stick into my spokes if my bike doesn’t have any.
And youths are also notorious for not turning out too.
And yet, they seem motivated to vote for Harris because the party stopped lecturing and listened instead.
I feel like i heard those same people say she was too moderate before.
Funny how that changes.
And yet they rallied behind her. Guess the centrist narrative about progressives wanting absolute perfection and purity testing everything to death was horseshit from the very beginning, and that progressives are willing to accept a reasonable compromise candidate when the party isn’t too stubborn and arrogant to listen.
Now since we’re talking about things people said before Biden dropped out, where’s all the chaos that Biden stans were predicting?
The youth are not historically known for showing up to vote.
That’s what the media says, but kids these days are showing up more than their parents were at their age.
I just hope it’s enough.
“The youth are notorious for low turnout. That’s why Kamala Harris (and possibly her VP) increasing their turnout isn’t important.”
More like being popular with a demographic who doesn’t show up to vote hasn’t historically been a good way to win elections.
If they actually show up this time, awesome.
Biden literally won in 2020 with strong youth turnout while Clinton lost in 2016 with a weak one. Historically, youth turnout is extremely important for Democrats, and people continually dismissing their value will only harm that effort.
https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016
And yet they’re excited right now because the party was responsive to their concerns.
Let’s hope they stay excited.
Let’s hope the party remains responsive, then.
There’s an increasing trend, though. The last couple elections have been pivotal. Sucks we didn’t turn out in 2016, but we’re learning. Young women telling young men you ain’t getting laid while abortion is illegal. LGBT+ saying you won’t take our healthcare. New parents saying we need universal childcare, college students saying debt forgiveness is essential.
I don’t know if it’ll be enough, but I know I’ll never miss an election again, at least
It’s so frustrating people don’t get this. Progressive politics is stringing together election victories. The US system is designed to require longer term horizons to enact significant change. And we saw precisely why when we survived Trump’s term.
