I’m an ex incel myself, but I’ve been seeing a few users here exhibiting the tell tale signs. “I’m not attractive enough”, “I don’t socialize correctly”, “I’ll never find a woman” - all extremely unhealthy attitudes.
Personally I burned through many friendships and ruined a lot of chances with women because I was in the incel community. The community warped my view of women so much that I made it even harder to meet women, I became my own worst enemy. I lost friends because all I could think of was how horrible it was that they had girlfriends.
I have a friend who helped me out of it. She was the one who started calling out my bad behavior for what it was, and I started on the long uphill path out of it. I’m now married and stable for well over a decade, but I still think back to those days, and it depresses me seeing other people causing this themselves and not being aware of it.
So, Lemmy, for those who have clawed out of it, what’s your story?
Any introverts here? or ex introverts that would like to do an AMA come on over to https://lemmy.world/c/amarequests
I’m too old to be an incel™; I was going through it back when the term incel was coined as a neutral descriptor. I’d like to think that I wouldn’t have gone down that rabbit hole, because critical thinking comes very naturally to me, and the idea that it was women’s fault didn’t ever quite sit right with me. Women aren’t a monolith; they don’t get together and scheme. But if the incel phenomenon had been around, well, who knows? The camaraderie and validation of a group is incredibly beguiling.
Anyway, I was dealing with depression, which brought along a lot of other problems that caused me to be deeply angry and unsatisfied with life. One thing that really woke me up, oddly, was the song Toledo by Dan Bern. Specifically, the lyrics, “Maybe all the things you thought you got coming to you / Ain’t coming to you / Not in this life / And maybe all of the promises you thought were broken / Were never really made” In short, where was I getting the idea that life was fair, or that the universe owed me, well, anything? Not quite out of my posterior, because many cultural messages tell you that. But those messages are wrong.
So I decided to make the best of what life gives me, work on my own issues, and to have fun and do interesting things solo. And wouldn’t you know it, a year later…
…I was still single. What, do you buy into that trash about how you find “the one” when you stop looking? I’m still single years and years later. BUT! That’s okay, because “giving up looking” isn’t some fancy, new way of low-key actually-looking. The benefit has been being more satisfied with life, and doing fun and interesting things.
I thought to myself “no cap this kinda mid fr fr on… ratio” and pussy appeared.
Took a flight overseas.
Thailand? Japan?
Missouri 🤣
So you’re saying he has cousins there?
'Nam.
I was like that for a long time. I think I solved my problem by mostly thinking about my situation and the reasons for it and managed to separate fact from fiction. Something that also played a role was to - for a while - literally giving up. For a while I thought I would stay alone forever. For a while I was able to relax a little and not be that desparate, stressed guy who thought his time was running out. Who had to always think about opportunities to meet someone. I could just be myself. Desparation isn’t a very attractive trait. I realized that there actually where quite a few women who seemed to show interest in me, but I never was able to see it, because I felt so beneath them. Them showing interest in me was unbelievable. In times where I didn’t try to desparately meet women or get them to be interested in me I was much better at talking and being interested.
I think I was lucky in having a rather rational way of thinking about problems. That’s how i was able to understand myself and find a way out of this whole. What were the things that (I think) got me out of it:
- I was able to think of women as just other humans.
- They are not automatically miles above me and i would have to hope to get their attention out of luck
- They sometimes are as desparate or unsure of themselves as I was. They were actually pretty glad if I was showing interest in them (previously I never dared to talk to them just for the sake of it, because I feared they would be annoyed as they would always be talked to by idiots like me).
- I remembered something someone said to me as a teenager: " You will make 10 times as many friends in the time you try to get people to be interested in you If you instead show interest in other people". I realized that for a long while I had the mindset of “please pick me!” when i thought about women. I was the low being who would have to hope to be chosen. I was thinking about wearing interesting shirts, or doing interesting things so that someone of the “upper class” would find me worthy enough and talk to me. Only late in life I realized that other people - especially women - weren’t some higher level being - some mythical alien creatures. They were a lot like myself, yearning to be recognized by other human beings. And that I wasn’t that low as well and a lot of other people - especially ( again:) women - were quite happy if I showed interest in them. So for anyone reading this: It might be strange to ask other people their name or from where they are, what they do, what they like. what problems they have. But after a while your thinking changes. Then you might actually genuinely be interested in them. And a lot of them greatly appreaciates it. So: try to be for other people what you want them to be to you. And don’t only talk to people who you want to get into bed. Just expand your perspective. talk to people.
It’s mostly just the mindset. If you’re thinking your worthless and other people are unreachable, then your behavior will mirror this thinking.
Another thing: I am quite glad that when I had this phase in my life “incel” culture wasn’t a thing. At least there were no dark corners in the Internet offering me easy explanations for my problems. I came from a strange place, believing that women where heavenly creatures miles above my sorry existence, so maybe not that typical incel-vibe, but I am still not 100% sure that these women-hating incel-idiots would have turned me against 50% of the population.
I was never full-on incel, but I was definitely headed down that path. I was a late-20’s fat guy with severe acne all over my upper body, and I’d obviously never had a girlfriend. I looked ahead in life and just saw it going further and further downhill. I tried dieting, working out, etc, but none of my attempts at making a change ever lasted.
One day I saw a facebook post that one of my old highschool classmates had gotten married. The guy looked a lot like me, and at first I was mad - I had that classic incel thought of “why is he successful and not me?” But after sitting in that dark place for awhile, I realized that the answer to that question is that I can be successful! I realized that I’d never tried to put myself out there because I always viewed myself as not being worthy - I needed to be fitter, more attractive, better at talking to people, etc - but did I really? I wanted to find out, so I made an online dating account, cleaned myself up, got a friend to take some nice pictures of me doing things I enjoyed, and put myself out there.
I made a goal for myself to never start a conversation with “Hey” or something similar - I went through every profile I found and picked something specific to talk about. It took a while, and I missed a lot of opportunities by being awkward, but eventually I got good enough at holding a conversation to secure a few dates, and in only a few months of that, I found the woman who is now my wife!
I’m still fat, but having someone to look good for was at least enough for me to shower more regularly, which cleared up a lot of my acne. I’m still pretty awkward, but so is my wife, and we both find it endearing. Life’s not perfect - there are still issues - but I’m no longer looking ahead at my life and seeing only downhill trajectory; I have a sense of optimism I didn’t have before, and it mostly came from me accepting myself. I’m not sure if other incels are the same as I was - not realizing that the one they actually hate is themselves - but I hope that if they are, they eventually come to the same realization that I did: that they are worthy.
I made a goal for myself to never start a conversation with “Hey” or something similar - I went through every profile I found and picked something specific to talk about.
This is a good strategy. It’s surprising how many people (of all genders) match on dating apps and think “hey” is a strong opener.
Also surprising is how many people think a longer message they send to every match (eg: “what do you think defines art?”) is a good move.
Asking people about their profile stuff is the way to go. People like talking about themselves. People are (hopefully) putting things on their profile their way to talk about.
what do you think defines art?
Ah yes, always begin conversations with a philosophy lesson
Just another thing. Working out, not to look good but to build some muscle (whether it’s seen or not), makes a great improvement in the bedroom!
In my very limited experience, the one characteristic that seems pretty universal to incels is the inability to have casual, no pressure small talk with anyone, especially with those of the opposite gender (or whatever gender you like).
Small talk is a skill like anything else. It must be practiced and honed. The easiest way to do this is just by being interested in what the person is saying. You don’t have to be funny or quippy. Just be curious about their life and you’ll find that most of small talk is just being able to go back and forth about a topic.
The best advice I’ve heard along those lines is: “It’s more important to be interested than interesting”
Ironically, I reckon the more interested you are in people and things, the more interesting you become, because you learn and gain a more diverse understanding of the world, and then you are able to interact with more depth with more people.
Small talk is a skill like anything else. It must be practiced and honed. The easiest way to do this is just by being interested in what the person is saying. You don’t have to be funny or quippy. Just be curious about their life and you’ll find that most of small talk is just being able to go back and forth about a topic.
Key here is that anyone can do small talk. You have to have ZERO knowledge about the subject matter. You can just ask questions. Anyone interested in a topic will usually be happy to answer them. This works on anything from sports to cooking to blacksmithing topics. The wonderful thing you find out is: PEOPLE ARE INTERESTING!
Admit your ignorance on the subject and have them walk through explanations. Engage in the conversation by connecting it to any tangential knowledge you have on the subject.
“Ocean kayaking? I’ve never done that. That sounds exhilarating. The closest thing I’ve ever done to that was a canoe on a river when I was 12. I’m sure its different but how different is it?”
“How did you get into that hobby?”
“Where in the world have you done it?”
“Any close calls?”
“How important is the right gear/boat?”
“Where would you like to do that in the future?”
See? Zero knowledge about ocean kayaking, but infinite conversation that the other person is engaged with you in. Congratulations you’re small talking!
Key here is that anyone can do small talk. You have to have ZERO knowledge about the subject matter. You can just ask questions. Anyone interested in a topic will usually be happy to answer them
Fucking hell. I needed that. I’ve somehow never put that all together by this point
The tips here for small conversation here are spot on. Most people want to talk about themselves and stuff they enjoy, I know I do (but I’m also aware not everything I want to say is what people want to listen to, I love history but it’s rare for me to find “openings” to share some of it and people often try to change topics soon after). Give them a bit of room and, if it’s something you really want to know more about, ask further.
It is also okay not to be good a “small talk”. I quite frankly hate it and for the most part i tend to overwhelm people in conversations. Now i am happily married and we still sometimes end up just talking all night, because we engage in conversations we both find meaningful.
Weirdly enough and quite annoyingly now that i am married and built some confidence, a lot of women are hitting on me, and seemingly unfazed by me stating the fact that i am married. Had to cut out a few people from my life because of that.
It seems like incels, or at least Tate-holes, treat every conversation as a challenge with the reward being sex.
Just be friends with people. Who fucking cares if you end up in a romantic relationship, allow yourself to form close intimate friendships that aren’t physical.
Perfect way to put it - this is how I’ve felt about Tate, etc, but couldn’t describe it. This is so spot on.
Awesome! I scored 6 conversation points, I can redeem my punch card for sex now!
Oh you didn’t hear about the pricing update… Sex costs 15 now, but you can redeem 6 for a hug if you ask nicely.
What if you don’t want to be friends with people though?
Any sexual relationship will rely on a foundation of some amount of friendship. A human connection, if you will. There’s a reason the terms are “fuckbuddy” and “friends with benefits” and not just “sex toy”
If you want a sex toy just go buy a sex toy from the shop
My father and mother weren’t friends.
Mine weren’t either. Unbearably miserable for everyone until they got divorced, then it was just regular miserable. Would not recommend.
What about hookups though? I’d say there isn’t much human connection there, and certainly not friendship.
Realistically, in order to hook up you need the social skills that come from forming and maintaining human connections in order to not immediately make your perspective partner run for the hills the moment you open your mouth. Sure one might be able to get lucky in spite of a lack of any social experience, but that’s about as likely as winning it big in lottery
I thought you meant friendship with the sexual partner, not as a skill / attitude with anyone. Nevermind then
Can’t tell if trolling, quipping, or honestly asking…
I feel like some people who don’t want friends are often people with low self esteem who have decided their hypothetical future friends will abandon them, or not like them, or whatever, and so they convince themselves that they “don’t want that anyway” as a way of protecting themselves from future pain or embarrassment. In those cases, dating aside, the person should work on their self esteem.
If it’s not that, one could try casual hookup apps. These rely on a certain amount of work, and there’s no guarantee, especially if one lives in a less populated area, but it’s possible.
And the third option for someone who doesn’t want anything social and just wants sex, is sex work. This is exactly what it can be for! The only trouble is that in most places it’s illegal, which pushes it underground, making it both difficult to find and potentially dangerous… but this is the niche it’s meant to occupy.
But honestly… at least consider that it may be the first case, and see if you can search your feelings to figure out “why”.
A good relationship is founded on friendship in one way or another.
This is a great story. I’m so happy for you and your wife!
I don’t think any incel would comment here since they might not know that they are incel.
That is why they ask ex-incels
They know they were incels.
I’m on a different level, I didn’t know the term incel, I had to look it up. Whether I am (an?) incel is debatable (EDIT: The term is more specific than I thought so the answer is no) but this thread definitely goes straight to mt collection. This is the type of content that makes me love Lemmy.
I’m an incel. I can tell you how I clawed to became one.
Go on
While I studied the blade, he studied the 4chan.
I’ve been living without having any kind of communication with women (except for my mother and sister) for 6 years, because I was in a boy’s school. That completely changed my view of women, in a bad way. Now I can’t talk with them because I’m afraid they’re gonna curse me, or feel bad because of me. I look bad, smells bad and can’t make someone happy.
And I hate couples. I somehow feel really bad seeing them, but I’m sure I’m not jealous. They’re kinda scary instead.
I met practically a femcel who’s very sweet and we were very respectful with each other and clicked with one another which changed my view on women.
How are people who hate each other based on their gender end up meeting & being respectful to each other?
I answered in the other comment
Can you elaborate? I thought incels and femcels are arch nemeses.
So it’s not that we identified as femcel and incel to each other, just later on we began talking about ourselves more openly. I made a post to talk to people while doing an activity together and she’s one of the first to message me (I didn’t even know she was female until I heard her voice). We were both very respectful to each other anyway, as I think we both took it as an opportunity to get away from our own loneliness.
Also we’re not the usual type of “incels” (we’re both attractive), it’s more like the circumstances we’re in, what we went through, and our personalities that led to that
Men: Stop fixating on the need to “get a woman”. Procreation is not how to win at life. No one virtuous is keeping score like that. All that “alpha/omega” stuff is trash. Stop everything you’re doing, trying and striving for. Spend some time genuinely at rest, not fixating on sex or work or entertainment or fitness, and think about yourself.
Really examine the person that you are. Think about the good that you’ve done. Think about the harm that you’ve caused. Think of how you can nudge yourself towards being a better person; someone who is considerate to others feelings, someone who can help without expecting reciprocation. Start doing that stuff. Your reward for this work is inner peace, not babes and money and success.
Self-reflection leaning towards kindness, forgiveness and genuine curiosity about yourself is the key to being the best you that you can be.
It will take a long time. When you get frustrated, ask yourself what kind of reward you’re expecting. If that reward is anything besides “being a happier, more satisfied me”, work on refocusing yourself.
Living like this will catch people’s attention. A word of warning: some will be emotional vampires who want to take advantage of you, and you’ll unfortunately have to live through a few relationships with those before you recognize them. But other people, more well-adjusted folks, will notice as well. Those are the kinds of people who can become life-long friends. And, in my experience, that’s where loving relationships start.
Who knows? You might uncover some really important things about yourself along the way that you never realized were there before.
Well said, thank you.
Self reflection can be a hard road. It’s not easy to admit that you aren’t the person you think you are, or worse that people think of you differently than you think they should - but if you embrace that and tackle it head on, truly wanting to be better, you can end up in a much better place.
Some people like just negated into that way of thinking. I’m anti social and aware that I’m not a good person. That doesn’t mean that I wanna change. There’s a lot of way more awful and disgusting people out there getting laid, why not me?
The fact of life is that some people are just cursed to be alone.
A pithy way to say this is: “chase girls and they’ll run away. Chase your dreams and the girls will chase you.”
Taking martial arts classes (specifically for me, Brazilian jiu jitsu). Coincidentally i met my current girlfriend there, but you shouldn’t expect to meet women there. Rather, it’s a way to stop thinking about women for two hours. I realized that back then my mind was constantly thinking non-stop if i’m attractive to women, what women like, how i can get one, etc. It’s those thought loops that make interaction so painful.
Literally anything that can get your mind off of women. Hot take; I wouldn’t advise going to a gym though, because still then you’re thinking about how to become more attractive by becoming fit. The goal is to work out to take your mind off things. Martial arts is perfect for this: you physically work out, and your mind is focused on your opponent.
I’ve never been an incel but I’ve always sympathised because I feel like I easily could have become one. Seeing a therapist and learning the basics of Cognitive Bias Therapy is what I attribute to helping me out of a lot of those ‘thought loops’.
It’s nice hearing stories about people who’ve escaped it.
You should strength your muscles before doing martial arts anyway
You do not need to pre train to join a martial arts gym as a rookie/white belt
Why did my muscle get hurt then?
What’s wrong with your muscles hurting?
Or do you.mean an actual injury…
When I trained TKD I would still get DOMS from intense training, even as a black belt. Obviously faster recovery than when I was a rookie, but muscles “hurting” is ok
Yes sorry it was an actual injury/lesion on the muscles
Probably went too hard too soon, and you didn’t have time to get used to the activity- it takes months for your body to get significantly stronger. I tore my bicep tendon, I believe I just wasn’t ready for the level of exertion. Similarly I would recommend warming up each session and starting with low effort / low exertion movements.
Your muscles can get hurt working out too, you just gotta learn to preform in your own capabilities, or you were hurt by an asshole.
I am not a current or ex incel—I came from the front page out of curiosity—but I feel the need to weigh in on this.
I have a black belt in a mixed martial art, I’ve been active in it for many years as a student and as a teacher, and I strongly feel that martial arts can offer a positive improvement to just about every person.
I joined martial arts because I was severely depressed going through a divorce and custody battle; I was going from work to the bar and then home. My life felt meaningless and I very literally woke up one day and realized that if I didn’t change something I was going to kill myself. I joined a local dojo that day.
Martial arts is special. It certainly gives you a place to vent out some frustrations in a safe, productive way… but if you find yourself a good dojo it can be so much more.
Martial arts boosted my confidence massively; it made me feel better about myself and who I am by giving me regular positive interactions with many other people. Belts are earned from hard work, and the experience of being handed that next rank provides a measurable improvement to guide you.
Eventually you start to be the upper belt and get to guide newer people through the same benefits you’ve seen, which feels great. If you go as far as me you may get to stand in front of the class as an expert and feel the healthy respect of a group of people, earned through dedication and the relationships you have formed with them.
Martial arts made me a better person, and better man, a better father, and helped me live a more well rounded and happy life.
Normally I end this little rant there, but if you are an incel and you are looking to get out I will add one more benefit: women go to class too, and if you want positive role model women to help break you out of a cycle of negativity I can think of no better example than an upper-belt woman who you can interact with in a structured environment. Most people in a dojo are pretty chill and happy to help, they also tend to have high confidence in the upper ranks and aren’t looking to prove anything anymore. It’s a pretty fantastic way to form new friendships that will challenge everything the incel community has convinced you is true.
Not a martial artist here, but I would think the fact that everyone is in a basic uniform in many martial arts also makes it less intimidating for someone with body image issues who feels them especially strongly in front of women. No one is dressed attractively or provocatively in the sort of outfits people wear when doing martial arts. They’re not designed to look sexy. They’re a pretty good gender equalizer in terms of appearance.
Yo, just want to say: good on you and good advice. I think you nail the problem with the constant thoughts thing, and that also explains why so many people will talk about how they met someone after they “stopped looking”.
The bird will never land on your ship if you constantly stand guard to catch it; instead improve your ship and sail into warmer waters, the bird will land while you are not looking.
-cgp grey
but l’ve been seeing a few users here exhibiting the tell tale signs. “I’m not attractive enough”, “I don’t socialize correctly”,
Oh god you’re talking about me aren’t you
I feel like I always had that “I don’t socialize correctly” vibes, always feeling like I’m out of context and weird and not cool.
But then I realized something.
Cool people are literally the same. They don’t do some special “cool” things, they just better fit the given community with their traits. I can be cool too, I just need a room of nerds!..and apparently YES, that’s all it took. Now I am cool in my circle, respected by my friends and they actually invite me to spend time with them and are happy when I can turn up. And I also have a girlfriend who adores me and is happy to spend every bit of time with me, too!
Also, all the culture, all the behaviors are all interconnected. You can absolutely have someone into national dances or writing books suddenly turn to hard rock and be completely integral with it! Behaviors, art forms, forms of expression constantly reappear in society, and a lot of what we see today we’ve seen centuries or millennia ago.
So whichever way you socialize, you are not doing it wrong. You are not weird or out of place - society always had people like you, society has them now, and your best bet is to find your people. You are not outdated or ahead of time - modern culture is not fundamentally different from anything that has been before or will be after. You are a real integral part of society, in whatever form you exist, and you create and form it.
If this helps: I’ve been married for decades and still feel like I’m not attractive and don’t socialize correctly.
I’ve recently lost a ton of weight (not for good reasons) and everyone I know is telling me how great I look and I still feel like I’m not attractive.
I think that’s just a common human thing, not necessarily an incel thing.
I took estrogen.
I was like fuck them they are so pretty 😭 Now I am pretty yayI feel that “I’m not pretty” stuff too!
But wary of taking estrogen and going with transitioning for social reasons and also because I kinda want to remain sexually active and keep a solid dick lol
So, crossdressing and some makeup it is!
I’d kill myself sooner than see myself in the mirror as an old man one day. It’s pretty easy indicator. Old woman - yeah whatever could be nice, old man - no fucking way brr
And social things, yeah well this is admittedly something that is problematic but I am a firm believer that if you are confident enough, you can get away with just about anything.
I am just me, Emmie, hello. Nothing less or more and the rest anyone can make up in their heads as they see fit. Not my business
Cool!
In any case, I admire your bravery and the firm dedication to be yourself. I wish you the best of luck!
Hell yeah! Be pretty!
No but seriously I was kinda incel once. I barely can remember that time but it involved lots of substances, clubs and things that were supposed to make you manly. Other people enjoyed them, me? I only wanted these things to make me more manly. I thought it can be learned or acquired with enough cigarettes, beer and calling people names and doing stupid ‘acts of masculinity’. I mistook antisocial for masculine I think in this pursuit.
When I felt empathy? again at 27 years old it was amazing. Like a blind person who has seen colours first time since losing them at the young age.It’s truly amazing that we are capable of caring and this deep connection as humans and I don’t think there’s anything more worthwhile.
I read the last line in Mysticats voice lol
I volunteered. So, no longer involuntary.
Not exactly answering the question here but I am wondering about whether or not this counts as inceldom.
So here’s the deal with me. I am an ugly person who is only attracted to attractive women. I have tried dating women who were, for a lack of better term, “looks-matched”. But even though we actually connected really well I just couldn’t develop any romantic feelings for them because of their looks.
Now this has left me in a situation where I am certain I will never get a girlfriend. My beauty standards are just too high. But I do not blame women for this. It’s perfectly reasonable for attractive people to want attractive partners. Hell, that’s pretty much my standard as well when it comes to dating (except I’m not physically attractive). So whadaya gonna do?
One thing you could try, if you haven’t, is dating someone you connect with, and have a fun time with, even without “romantic spark”. Attraction can be important in a relationship, but in a long term relationship spark often doesn’t last anyway, and it’s other things that actually keep people together. Getting along well, working well together, handling stress in complementary ways, etc, are all more valuable long term.
So just as an experiment you could try dating someone for something “long”, but not actually that long in the grand scheme of things. Maybe 3 months, roughly one season. Even if you’re not physically attracted to them, try dating them anyway. If it doesn’t work, you haven’t actually lost anything. Just a bit of time. And you will have officially “had a girlfriend”, and gained some amount of relationship experience, even if it wasn’t the best.
And if it just so happens that you’re just not an “early term” guy, buf you’re actually a pretty good “mid-term” guy, then that’s great! Keep going! You haven’t got a lot to lose, in a sense, so you’re available for experimentation.
Basically what you seem to be saying is that as long as you can connect in some way like shared interests and desires, they could be a good partner. They don’t have to be a superstar model for you to have a connection and also enjoy being intimate with them, which could easily be a strong enough motivation to spend the rest of your lives together or even end up starting a family. You could definitely fall in love with them.
Yeah basically! There’s a reason most romantic comedies end with them starting to date. It’s because that’s the zany exciting bit. After that part, the next 40 years or whatever is a roommate who lives in your home with you, and you do taxes together, and you eat dinner together, and you go to your shared friend’s homes to hang out, and maybe you teach weird little gremlins how to be humans, and you talk after work about how your day went, and what you’re planning to do in the future.
And that stuff can be great! But looking like a model doesn’t make that stuff much better. Even people who live with models probably “get over it” pretty quick. You can’t be in awe 18 hours a day every day for 15 years. But, having a shared foundation of experiences and mutual respect does make those things easier. Liking each other’s friends does too.
You can learn to love someone, and you can learn to find an attractive person unattractive through interaction.
Well I would say for a start that while you say you’re ugly someone will think you’re pretty. The thing is one of those people should be you. Anyways, I wouldn’t call it inceldom, if anything just a mild lack of self-esteem, that’s fixable, how depends on you tbh, I personally recommend going to the gym because it worked for me, even without much gains it helps a lot with confidence, especially if you compare yourseld only with your past self and not others. Of course it may or may not work for you. Once you figure out why you feel ugly and work through it, giving yourself time to adjust and not being too harsh on yourself while trying to still maintain some discipline, you will probably realize you aren’t as ugly as you think you are and maybe one day find someone you like. Or not, well at least not for a while, but at least you’ll be happy even if single
Yeah, it’s clearly important to make sure you’re clean and you cut your hair how you like it and dress how you want. Even if you’re a morbidly obese sweatlord, you’ll be a lot happier about how you look in the mirror when you’re doing those kinds of things.
First of all, most people are their own worst enemies, because you have to live with yourself, and you know exactly where your weakest points are to emotionally punch. So chances are you’re more attractive than you’re giving yourself credit for.
Secondly, your body is not static. You can really be whatever you want to be, and if your body isn’t in shape now you can get it into better shape, and probably into better shape than it ever was before in your lifetime. There is certainly a genetic and birth lottery for how easy your goals are to achieve, but they do remain ultimately achievable. I personally felt like as a nerd I couldn’t choose to be physically active, that I had to pidgeonhole myself into a stereotype, which is very not true.
Thirdly, whether or not you’re super hot in reality, getting your body moving is freaking amazing for your mental and physical health, and once you can start hitting milestones your past self never could have its incredible. I literally could never do a pullup when I was younger, but now I can do pullups. And that took literally 2 months of 20 minute workouts. So pickup even a basic 5 day at home workout regiment, or bike every evening or run every morning. Seriously the healthier feeling from actually moving vs. being a lump is amazing
Finally, the bar is so freaking low for dudes. If you can be confident and not a douchenozzle and have decent lifeskills I guaren-fucking-tee you there is a woman out there who is perfect for you and far more interested in that criteria than simply finding someone who’s conventionally attractive with social traits that they can put up with.
I fell down an incel-adjacent rabbithole when I was a teenager and young adult and while I was physically isolated (lived with my parents in the suburbs but my parents hadn’t bothered to teach me to drive, so getting around was a royal pain in the butt. Realistically I could’ve done more but youth truly is wasted on the young) I then for “reasons” socially isolated myself by avoiding online communities where i could have met people. I had really bad acne that brought my self-esteem to zero (in hindsight the acne was about the 5th least attractive thing about me at that time) and was struggling to complete a college degree in the wrong field while also failing to work enough to be able to afford to move out (again, hindsight 20/20 I had things I could have done but didn’t)
Because I didn’t interact with anyone outside of my household, my social skills never grew and probably deteriorated. I was depressed and felt trapped, I believed myself to be “too autistic” to do things that could help, and it was all around a pretty unhappy time in my life.
I happened to meet my now-wife on an online dating site, and we’ve both reflected and determined we were both in similarly bad but different places at that time. She had gained a bunch of weight (I seem to have a wider attractive range for weight than most people so this wasn’t a problem for me) and was moving on from her nth abusive boyfriend. Honestly my lack of social skills at the time made it so there were times where I flat out said something incredibly hurtful without realizing it. She’s since told me that she put up with that because “at least I wasn’t physically abusive” (single dudes, the bar you need to meet is so, so low)
Anyways we both have since grown a lot as people and have both grown into fairly functioning adults. We both have more to grow (we both really need to get our respective executive dysfunctions under control), and sometimes we’ve grown apart, but we’ve kept growing back together.
