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Functional design is the only proper design.
I drove pickup trucks for years. Most people probably don’t realize is how much higher the operating cost is compared to smaller vehicles, even if they know that it’s generally higher. The first hybrid I bought was a Prius about a decade ago and when I finally looked at the difference in the cost of fuel and maintenance, it was not insignificant.
There’s plenty of legit reasons to need a pickup but outside of that, you’re just throwing your money away. Nowadays our Sienna Hybrid minivan has a hitch receiver on it so I can hook the trailer up to it if I need to haul something big. I haven’t needed a truck in a long time.
I think you’re making up crap. Or at least you’re comparing an old vehicle to a new one.
My truck costs the exact same to maintain as all of the other vehicles I’ve owned. Gas usage is worse than a Prius, but pretty much inline with most SUV.
There’s really not anything that’s materially more expensive to maintain in a truck than any other car.
The is no way your parts and materials for maintaince are the same cost as a smaller average car. The shocks are bigger, the brake parts are bigger, the tires are bigger, the engine has a higher oil capacity, the vehicle is probably more valuable so the insurance premium is probably higher.
Oil change costs the same in my truck as every other vehicle.
None of the other parts are materially different in cost over the life of a vehicle. The size difference is trivial compared to the cost of manufacturing, distributing, and selling. If you’re paying for labor, the price difference is even proportionally smaller.
These are all items you change 2 or 3 times over the life of a vehicle. The truck part being 20% more expensive doesn’t add up to a drastic difference in overall cost of ownership.
You can think whatevever you want. A conventional gas job requires 2 to 3 oil changes to every 1 on a hybrid, depending on if you’re changing it every 3k or 5k miles. Plugs and wires, brake pads, coolant, etc. also require more frequent replacement on conventional vehicles. I would know and I’ve got the financial records to back it up.
I would also know. I’m driving a hybrid truck right now.
I truly think you’re comparing an old car to a modern one. None of the stuff you listed needed changing with any regularity, one any modern car.
Could changed happen every 9k miles, brake pads are entirely usage based (going 80k+ miles on original), coolants might get changed once in the 200k lifetime of the truck, etc, etc, etc.
If you got a newer car, all those things would still last just as long but be cheaper to maintain and replace because the parts would usually be smaller and require less materials.
Put the parts are within, like 10% of each other.
“Size” really isn’t a major factor in pricing of most products.
As someone whos owned and worked on many cars and trucks, my wallet would disagree
fuck both of them anyway
I mean I’m all for hating cars, but why the small one? That one seems reasonable at least.
Like it or not, some kind of truck or work vehicle will have to exist for landscapers and such. Id much rather see the smaller truck everywhere than the larger. The streets would be safer for anyone not in a metal box.
Yes exactly.
it’s not like having 4 wheels and a cab is somehow magically evil, the problem with cars is that they’re too big and go too fast, and that people expect them to always get priority.
Here in sweden a lot of landlord companies have started using what is effectively more robust golf carts as work vehicles, and they don’t even really feel that out of place on a combined pedestrian/bicycle path.
Even just removing the massive bulge at the front of a standard car helps a lot, that suddenly brings the driver closer to everything and means their natural instincts to be careful engage more.
The pp size is inversely proportional to the truck size.
I prefer walking, and use a bicycle when it’s possible. So sadly doesn’t check out.
Bicycle size isn’t zero, you you pp size isn’t infinity. It does check out.
that’s why I ride a bike.
I could get away with a unicycle if it weren’t for my MASSIVE SCHLONG requiring support and it’s easier that way than getting two unis.
I’m picturing the two unicycle method illustrated in the style of Dr Seuss
I suppose you are using a lady bike then so there’s more space for the schlong?
What is lady bike?
Traditionally bikes for women had the horizontal stabilizing bar much lower probably to account for dresses and the like, but the differences has been slightly washed out over the years.
The top bike is referred to as the “lady bike”, as you’ve said, but for any external viewers, the top bike is probably a better choice for city bike in general. There’s the point about not having to swing your leg around when mounting and dismounting the bike, true, but the bike also promotes an upright seating position as opposed to a totally horizontal, leaned down, motorcycle like position, which will be more comfortable for long ride periods for most riders, at the cost of aerodynamics. The bottom bike is extreme overkill for most uses, but it’s also the bike you’re going to probably see most often in the US outside of mountain bikes, since nobody tends to commute on bike here.
No I have a sheat for the schlong on the horizontal bar of the frame
This guy bikes.
Ironically with a woman’s bike IRL
But the one on the left wouldn’t pass US fuel economy standards, which are based on vehicle footprint since 2012.
That’s the reason the Ranger etc were discontinued for a while, and when they returned were bigger than the old F-150s.
It’s so the reason the small cargo vans (Nissan NV200, Ford Transit Connect, and Ram Promaster City) were all discontinued in the last 2 years. CAFE standards increase over time, and it’s easier to just make bigger cars.
But the one on the left wouldn’t pass US fuel economy standards, which are based on vehicle footprint since 2012.
Bigger cars consume more fuel.
Yes, but the regulation is a “amount of fuel per weight of vehicle”. In absolute terms it’s more.
It’s like when you’re buying produce. $10 for 10 strawberries ($1.00 per berry) and $15 for 20 strawberries ($0.75 per berry). The $15 option is “only” $0.75 per berry, but it’s also just more money in total.
It’s moronic to define fuel economy per pound of vehicle.
Agreed.
Unintended consequences, the plague on governments through history.
When a consequence is so blatantly predictable can it be unintended?
Can it truly be considered intended when Congress just signs the bills ALEC pays them to sign? I guess ALEC intends it.
If the purpose is to sell more expensive trucks and SUVs then the bill has been wildly successful.
Its also in my opinion, a complete failure of the EPA and a disconnect from what it’s true goals should be. The marketing trends show that bigger vehicles (which have more leneient standards and can guzzle more fuel) have been sold more and more since these standards, all to the benefit of oil companies selling gas to fill the bigger tanks and the benefit of auto makers enjoying higher price margins on bigger vehicles. Once again the hand of capitalism and the “free market” prioritizing profits over everything.
Its also in my opinion, a complete failure of the EPA and a disconnect from what it’s true goals should be. … Once again the hand of capitalism and the “free market” prioritizing profits over everything.
I see a contradiction here.
Somebody designed a regulation without using their brain (or using to wrong ends), but apparently capitalism is to blame.
Would you prefer we blame you, comrade?
I’ve tried to immerse myself into commie stuff at some point, didn’t work.
Everyone blames EPA while forgetting two things.
The manufacturers chose to do this; no regulations prevent them from making a vehicle like the one on the left that meets the new standards. They’re just evading the standards.
Politicians of all walks allow regulatory capture, so almost all regulations are influenced by the people that should be regulated, making them useless or easy to evade.
It was a misguided reaction to the last round of CAFE fuckery.
The manufacturers started putting hatchback options as the standard kit on a bunch of models so they could classify them as lite trucks. So instead of basing standards on vehicle classification, the EPA changed it to vehicle footprint.
What that resulted was the subcompact trucks and cargo vans being held to the same efficiency standards as small cars, which really isn’t fair.
Yeah, Ford now sells a small truck with a hybrid engine and a 4-ft bed, but it has a towing capacity of 2,000 pounds as opposed to the old Ranger’s 6,000.
Yeah, it does 40 instead of 27 mpg, but the smallest truck that can actually haul plywood or tow a trailer big enough to be useful now has 23mpg. It’s a net loss in fuel economy because small vehicles are required to be designed around hauling passengers, not cargo.
But you can still legally buy older Kei trucks in the U.S.
And they’re affordable.
https://boekiusa.com/inventory/new-jersey/paterson/all-vehicles/available
Not too many dealers specialize though.
Me coming back from Home Depot
I guess cities didn’t exist before cars.
Are you proposing horses and wagons as the alternative to those flatbed trucks?
We can find some safe and slow moving vehicle cart like vehicle to do the job.
That’s what the kei truck in the front is for.
With a severe speed limiter, perhaps.
Putting a bunch of lumber or cement in the back of a sub 100hp Kei truck is a hell of speed limiter.
Me, paying 1/10th of a truck’s monthly payment in wood delivery fees:
I once saw a madlad bring a fridge on a dolly onto the subway.
3 teenagers with a couch
If it’s an actual work truck, that backseat is filled with tools that you can’t have out on the bed. I do doubt it’s a work truck though.
Hence why most smart labourers and contractors use a cargo van. No pesky seats blocking access and taking up space. Lots of customizeable room in the back for storage and shelves. Tall vans you can even walk inside and use a workbench. Many vans also have a decent towing capacity. Bed height is typically lower on a van, making heavier items easier to load. A lot of the same items people typically fit in truck beds can fit in the back of the van with the added benefits of being out of sight of thieves, being protected from weather and dirt, possibly even being heated or cooled if required.
Stop using logic, can’t you see how great muh cyber truk is?!¿‽
Cargo van: UAZ Loaf
A truck bed is way better for transporting potential dangerous vapors, like gasoline or welding gases.
You don’t want that stuff venting off in the interior space of a van.
That could be solved with an adequate partitiion installed (partition seperates the cab from the cargo). Many places require a work van to have a partition to prevent tools from entering the cab area when driving. The partition could be made to be comepletely air tight blocking fumes from the back. A sparkless ventilation system could even be installed if required.
This all may sound like an expensive upfront cost but it sounds worth it to keep expensive welders and such dry from rain and clean from road dirt.
two trucks by lemon demon???
Kei trucks feel like they’d be a perfect alternative to a gator. They appear to be cheaper too even considering importation.
Gators are probably way better off-road, but otherwise you’re totally correct
I see your Gator and I raise you a Kei truck with tank tracks.
That is amazing and I need one. Unfortunately I don’t think threads are great for paved roads, so I doubt the government will let me drive one to the DIY store.
Unfortunately I don’t think threads are great for paved roads,
It depends on the type of tread, some are made to run on roads, some really aren’t, or just kind of tear up roads. It’s the same principle as running chains or studs on your tires when you’re not in the winter or not in the mud. If you have rubber pads for contact on your tread, it could probably be better considering the load is spread out much more compared to the relatively small contact patch of a tire. The problem is that you’re gonna outweigh that gain with the larger amount of emissions it’s gonna take you to go anywhere on account of your treads not being as efficient.
Testicular cancer is not a game
A tax on vehicle axle weight proportional to the damage done to roads (which goes up exponentially with weight).
Happens many places in Europe already.
Vehicle fee based on some combination of size, weight, and miles driven would be the fairest.
Miles driven is just taken care of in fuel taxes. Sales tax on size, yearly tax based on weightwould be perfect I think.
Yes, something that attempts to assess cost proportional to impact
EVs break this.
If I had to buy a pickup truck I’d buy a Suzuki Carry and call it a day
But only one of them won’t have you seated in direct eyeline of all the super-high beams that everyone else is driving.
You can always install your own super-high beams on the small one and then you don’t have to drive around in a car that shouts tiny pp.
just install a military grade laser
I love the little guy, but your legs are also the crumple zone.
The comparison is kinda unfair. The big truck has a wider bed, bigger tires and more power. It also seats more people. So it is able to get more load through more difficult terrain. However we can be quite sure it won’t be used in that way.
Yeah.
Sure, most people with a big truck don’t need one.
That said, the capabilities of the bigger truck far exceed that of the Suzuki.
How did society even function without these big ass trucks. They are so capable and essenti.
The majority of trucks i see are driven by a guy in a perfectly clean dress shirt, carries a fancy bag for papers and they work an office job. Their justification is often something along a couple potholes on their rural road just outside of town (so they dont have to pay as much property taxes to fit potholes). They moved a fridge once for their kid 5 years ago so that paid for the truck in their mind.
The majority of these things are ego boosts. Hence why they tailgate, rollcoal, have loud exhausts and can be covered in sexist/racist/religious stickers. Its all about look at me for most of these trucks.
Amazing.
I’m not defending any of these people.
My point is, the two vehicles pictured have dramatically different capabilities.
I have yet to see a big truck carrying more than a ton of things, and I’m near home depot often. These trucks are capable of 800lb which should be fine for most people. I’d love a vehicle where if I found something I liked I could pick it up while still being a viable economical daily driver.
Do you live in an urban area?
I did say most people don’t need one.
I’ve never seen one with wear and tear and/or dirt that would indicate difficult terrain. Those only leave the city in advertisements.
that only happens when actual working people buy it used, maybe a decade down the line, to do actual work.
A lot of people wash them shortly after going off road to avoid rust and corrosion.
unless the owner does a full handwash, clay, compound, and wax every time, there is no way the trucks I’m seeing in my region are washed off road vehicles.
There’s a few in the country around here. The ones with dirt on them are almost exclusively the Toyota Hilux, though
up to but not including 7th gen hilux is more in line with what I would consider a reasonable truck design. I’d give them a pass before 2004 or so. The bulbous round ones, if people actually use them off the streets then it probably won’t offend me to see them on the road but personally I’d just have a small car for day to day and only use the truck for what I bought it for, storage insurance when I don’t need it. I’m still too scared of having my bike stolen to commit to no car it turns out. Some places are just too sketchy.
The tonneau cover is usually there because A) they do mostly highway mikes and want the improved mileage resulting from reduced drag, and B) they rarely use the bed, as those covers are a PITA unless you only remove it once in a great while.
I live in Central America where its mostly little trucks owned by workers, and they often drive on mud roads and hard terrain. The only people with trucks like the black one in the picture are US expats with …particular political leanings.
Nearly every tonneau cover folds or rolls up. Outright removal is a pain, but using the bed isn’t.
The factory standard cover rolls up in about 30 seconds.
Are you around forestry, oil drilling, or similar sites? Obv most are fleet stock simple (with decent tires), but the 4 door, white truck with a V8 is ubiquitous when you need 4 grouchy dudes to effectively live out of it for a whole day, plus all their equipment and food. It’s hilarious how much shit these trucks hold and get anywhere with a 2 track
That truck isn’t this truck though. That truck is dirty, dinged and always in use. The part of this truck that gets used the most is the entertainment system.
Well of course not this one with all the candy. But same frame, same class of engine, same door configuration, etc.
My brother in law has a truck like the one on the right. That backseat area is huge. You could stop and have a picnic back there during a road trip.
I can’t imagine owing it. It looks dumb to me and it’s far too big for normal use. But he’s a cross country hauler, so it’s not a big truck to him.
And they have three kids, so I doubt he gives af about pp showmanship.
Lol that almost done like a chindogu ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chindōgu )
In a way I almost prefer that to the blatant posers I see driving around with huge lifts and offroad tires looking spotless in our muddy season out here. I was at the combo laundromat/carwash the other day watching one of them wash an already clean truck while I was thinking about the massive mud puddle I’d be driving through to get home.
The small truck will have very little towing capacity due to its low weight. While many owners of these size trucks don’t tow anything with them, they do serve a necessary purpose beyond bed size. Boats, horses, trailers full of gravel, etc require much heavier vehicles when towing for safety.
You absolutely don’t need anything this big to tow most of that stuff, most farmers I know do fine with a ute half as tall. The only case I can think of where one of these gigantic US-sized SUVs could be necessary is with an equally gigantic caravan.
My brother’s Ford Ranger got pancaked because he was pulling his new boat that was too big for the truck and couldn’t stop in time at a traffic light before ramming the car in front of him.
That’s just irresponsible. Trailer brakes are absolutely necessary. The electric brakes on my previous boat trailer could stop the whole rig, if I hit the button on the controller.
Yes, a tiny 15 HP tractor from the 1950’s can tow a big trailer around a farm no problem. What it can’t do is tow it at much more than 2 mph. Owners of these trucks can tow a 20 foot boat down the freeway at 80 mph. Now whether or not they use them for loads like that (they rarely do) is another issue.
They aren’t talking about tractors. Ute is what Australians and New Zealanders call pickups.
So smaller pickups can do much of the same as the large.
Yep, that’s exactly it.
So smaller pickups can do much of the same as the large.
LOL. Have you ever tried to haul 6000 lb of manure in a 4 cylinder Toyota tacoma?
