Banking apps seem to be a motif among things that don’t play well with privacy ROMs. My bank’s website does everything I could want out of it. I think I might be ignorant to something.
- What about banking apps is especially compelling?
- How often do banks put must-have features behind an app?
- And should I be concerned that banks might move away from offering services through browsers?
I don’t run an OS on my phone or laptop that could run a proprietary banking app in the first place. Can’t be inconvenienced if you don’t know what convenience feels like in the first place.
I don’t like smartphone and won’t use apps for anything important.
Could you elaborate? What kind of phone do you have and do you use a free messaging application like Whatsapp?
i have an android for work and I just have the work stuff on it. personally I use google voice.
I think your largest banks like your Wells Fargo’s and Chase and Discover, etc. are going to take quite a long time to move to app only stuff if ever. However, newer entrants such as chime do lock functionality behind their app and make their websites really terrible. So I would avoid those.
I don’t use them. Web banking works completely fine for me. Back when I did use them, though, I always used them on privacy ROMs/GOS specifically. Went through 4 different banks and all their apps worked fine for me on GrapheneOS. No Google Play services either.
Website here is awful. Paste is disabled, it’s not optimized for mobile, it’s a PitA to use, & there is literally code to check if the user is running Netscape Navigator 4. The site has a weird encoding that doesn’t allow English punctuation, & to change your email or phone number requires physical documents, ID, & a wait period. The app is poorly coded & doesn’t work if you have root, are running a custom ROM, (& likely if you don’t have Google services)—so I do just use the site. …But if we are being real, I actually always keep cash on me & cash is preferred so while the problem is still relevant, needing the app/site isn’t dire.
What is really missing for my country on the site is QR code scanning for bank-to-bank transfers that a lot of vendors use & to do some bill payment. For instance, while I could set up the electric bill to auto-debit, my internet bill only has QR scan without a physical bank number I could transfer to (& the short list of utilities doesn’t include my net)—so I take a 25-minute bike ride in the heat once a month to pay that bill but I reward myself by getting to swing by the nearby-ish Hong Kong pie bakery to get a treat & a latte to make out-of-the-way trip feel worth it.
When I do have to use the site & since there is no QR code scanning, the workflow is:
- Login (I have a script to block their paste-blocker to use my password manager)
- Create a new recipient which requires a unique name, the account number + their banking service provider, phone or email, and 12-digit SMS 2FA code (no TOTP or FIDO2 option); this process is done on a desktop-only site which is hard to work with
- Confirm that with email
- Go to transfers, select my from account (despite me only having one account & no default preference option), find that user I created, fill in an amount, do another 12-digit 2FA
- Then they want to take a picture of my phone after the transfer for whatever reason reason
This process due to bad UX can take up to 10 minutes if they are not ready. So the tl;dr is to carry cash or hope an ATM is nearby.
I had discussed it with a local & he said there has been more push towards cashless brought on by businesses/government wanting to track everything & tourists demanding their privacy-invasive ‘comforts’ like $BIG_TECH_PAY & $CREDIT_CARD options despite most folks being fine with cash. Cryptocurrency is basically never accepted either.
If the day comes where I don’t have a choice, I will start carrying a second device with nothing but banking & similar nonsense that prevents my freedom to do what I want with the device I own. OP knows the website experience matter since it not only gets ported to platforms outside the mobile monopoly but sandboxes the banks for spying on your device & asking questions that aren’t their business like if I run an unGoogled ROM. Good thing there was a mass of pushback against Google trying to add attestestion to Chromium ore we’d enjoy the same nonsense on the web too where I’m sure Linux would be block by these goobers.
Notifications and Mobile Deposit are the 2 features from banking apps that I find compelling.
Can’t do anything about mobile deposits, but for notifications, you could get the notifications emailed to you and your email app has push notifications.
I mean, they could offer it through the browser. All modern browsers have more than enough hooks and permissions control to do something as simple as take a couple pictures and make a basic request to a back end.
Though making nice things costs money, so…
i worked on someone’s laptop recently that was set up for mobile deposits via web browser. they also had a bank-provided scanner, too, that worked with it. so it is possible, and it is being done.
Oh, of course they could do so, but they won’t do it because they want you to use their app. They want you to use their app because they control it and can mine data from it more so than on a web browser. Take Cime, for example. It has all kinds of Google trackers in it.
Bold of you to assume my email app has push notifications
- A sad Proton user using a de-Googled device
Actually, I am in that exact same situation, so I know exactly what you’re talking about.
Depends on the bank and what kind of notifications you want.
Some banks only allow certain types of notifications to occur through the app.Yeah, that is a good point.
I wouldn’t want bank notifications emailed to me. Maybe a notification that I have a notification, but no real content. Email is incredibly insecure.
Yeah, that’s a good point. Although I don’t know of many banks that would send the actual notification through email, just a message that you have a notification.
- 2FA
- Some banks I use require I aprove transactions on my phone when I am paying this online
- One bank I use has tap to pay on the app instead of relying on Google Wallet
I don’t use them and haven’t missed them. I see one of my local branches has ripped out its outdoor ATM’s though. Wonder if that’s related to moving stuff to apps.
NFC payments
Works fine on lineage os
In Finland, extremely.
The banks here provide digital ID verification online. You use it to log into tax services, the national health-care database, to apply for schools, other education-related stuff, apply for welfare, register trade names… etc. The list goes on and on.
Stuff you’d otherwise have to personally visit or mail documents to offices of various government institutions for, can be done extremely smoothly online.
With my bank, the app is used for one of the verification steps. When verifying your identity online, you need to authorize the login from the app by entering a PIN from memory when prompted. There are alternatives but this is by far the most convenient.
The same banking app also notifies me the second any money comes into or leaves any of my accounts. No transactions can occur without my knowing. It lets me know when I receive my pay, or when an electronic invoice comes in (power, phone bills, etc. come right into the app), gets automatically paid, or when explicit authorization is needed due to one being irregular.
Most of the services my bank provides can be accessed via browser, but the stuff above is the kind you can’t achieve in a browser.
Honestly OP Pohjolas app is so feature-rich I’ve been able to pretty much set it up to run my finances for me. All I do is keep an eye on my accounts to make sure things are going right.
Can confirm. On top of all that, the app is way more intuitive to use than the website.
I remember when I got here it was a nightmare for the first few months when I didn’t have strong auth. It took several months to open a bank account and you basically can’t do anything without that stuff
Pretty much. Helping my grandmother deal with misplacing or forgetting her login details has been hell a couple times.
It’s extremely convenient when just go about your life with it already on hand, but for obvious reasons the security measures are extreme and it’s a pain to set up or recover your id.
I haven’t had any issues with banking apps on GrapheneOS with play services installed
Seconded and I DO NOT use Google services. So I consider it atleast for banking unnecessary. Apps say they require it. But its usually for Push notifications. Mine work just fine without it. YMMV.
Depends on the country. I’m teaching in Thailand and here you can’t do any banking through a browser. You can only use the bank’s official app and you don’t even have a login/password for it, you have to go to the bank and activate the app in person as a foreigner (I think Thai citizens can do it online but foreigners have to do it in person). Nobody takes actual cards for the payment and you pay everywhere by scanning QR codes which has to be done through the app. If you buy a new phone you have to activate the app again at the bank’s office. It’s really annoying and the reason I probably can’t go with GrapheneOS or any other custom roms because the bank app is absolutely essential.
Oh yes this QR code bullshit drives me nuts back home too
Is using cash impossible in daily life instead? It is hard to imagine for me that a smartphone may be outright required for daily life…
It’s possible, just very inconvenient. You end up getting massive amounts of change that you have to lug around to spend.
Ah, nice to know. I personally consider this a fair tradeoff for freedom and lack of financial surveillance.
Things you can’t do with the website:
- Login with biometrics. Wants password and 2fa each time. As it should, but it gets tedious, especially when I want to confirm online payments (which need to be confirmed inside the interface after you login).
- No contactless payments. You can enroll a card into Google Pay but fuck Google, I don’t want them seeing what I buy.
- No notifications, hope the bank is willing to send SMS instead.
- Bit more tedious to send money to someone because the website can’t look up contacts by name, have to look them up separately and copy the phone number over.
Usually not worth it, the website usually has everything.
I’ve been surprised by how many banking apps I’ve seen that don’t require safteynet or google services (I thought basically all of them would require it). Some banks websites don’t work very well on mobile, so that’s some peoples reasoning.
My bank doesn’t have a website and it makes me want to kill them.
It’s crazy that it’s even legal to only have an app
