cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/18475086
I’m not against those who work for sex, but the idea to earn for a living doesn’t seem nice. IMO, sex should be for 2 people (or more for others who prefer polyamory) who wants to be intimate/romantic with each other. My point is money should not be the purpose.
Not really. I’ve never paid for a prostitute, I’ve never gone to a single strip club in my life or anything. I’ve only read the horror stories of what porn actors had gone through and it’s really not a sustainable way of living.
Sex should be treated as just a consenting activity between two or more people where nobody has to be hurt or wronged in any way for doing.
There’s a lot of variables and unchecked liabilities involved when it comes to treating sex as like a job.
Its been said in this thread better than I can - but I wish the people who argue sex work is immoral because you’re “selling your body” would apply that same logic to labor.
For most of us, our body is the only capital we have and we’re taught to devalue that capital into oblivion so those who deplete that capital the most make the smallest possible piece of the pie.
People who argue such things from a “morality” standpoint (translation in this context = religious), they don’t really employ logic or reason. They’re obliged to follow a thousands-year-old book, which tells them it’s a sin and filthy and so they’re miserable, and so why should anyone else have any enjoyment.
People break their bodies doing other kinds of work and people don’t seem too upset about that.
Some sex work isn’t even very physically involved. Take some pictures in the shower. Video yourself rubbing one out. It’s not all walking a dark, rainy, street in your underwear.
All workers should be unionized. Or maybe be in a worked owned cooperative. Capitalism will ruin everything eventually.
Everyone should have access to health care and basic needs.
Laws should be written with input what those they would bind and those they affect. Do sex workers want certain requirements? What do medical professionals think is safest? Laws should not be written to appease the nervous stomach of uninvolved parties.
But this is all fired from the hip because I haven’t done any real research. My gut feel is that most arguments against it are inconsistent (eg: “it’s degrading! But nevermind the job where they literally clean shit off the floor”) or personal nonsense (eg: “it’s a sin! But I don’t care that your worldview doesn’t say so”)
IMO, sex should be for 2 people (or more for others who prefer polyamory) who wants to be intimate/romantic with each other. My point is money should not be the purpose.
This is your personal opinion and really doesn’t justify laws backing it. It’s not founded on anything. Also I’ve got bad news about how a lot of sex isn’t intimate nor romantic.
I can’t fathom any reluctance coming from the left with respect to unionizing and providing necessary health services to any worker. If people do need to resort to sex work to make a living, then what are they supposed to do when they get older? Do you have to do a “respectable” job just to have the right to …retire? I feel some arguments come from a cruel place.
We can do a lot better than the Nordic Model, by the way!
The “legalize everything” response to the ineffeciveness of crackdowns at eliminating the root cause of social problems - like drug abuse and prostitution - is just libertarianism.
So it’s no wonder a bunch of nerdy guys groomed on reddit would be defending this.
Actually the left’s arguments come from information from the pornographers involved with digital pyramid schemes that also launder human trafficking by people like Andrew Tate.
Nobody in this thread has even heard of the Nordic Model, which helps get women out of the trade without criminalizing their activities, instead going after pimps. Employing former prostitutes as social workers.
There’s no need to rehabilitate women who are just entertaining the prostitution pyramid schemes or in the top brackets (essentially participating as e-madams). It’s practically just sharing nudes for pocket change for 99% of those involved.
The real purpose it to set up a wider market for dubiously sourced videos from human traffickers/kidnappers like Andrew Tate with better monetization than video streaming sites. The people jerking off in the shower are just helping provide cover by moving their nude sharing and cosplay activities into a human trafficking monetization pyramid scheme.
The best money is in the most violent and degrading acts available online. People purchasing sex acts through these platforms do it because the manipulation itself is valuable to them. They enjoy forcing people to do very uncomfortable things I’d rather not describe.
I’m getting all of this from actual sociologists by the way, before I get accused of having the same taste! They do studies on the german prostitution forum posts where they complain about the girls having sore holes and broken backs like it’s the wrong sauce on a schnitzel sandwich they ordered. The disgusting behavior is all public and cataloged, but ignored by the sexually desperate men in this thread
Many of you are underselling the exploitative and degrading nature of prostitution by referencing the people drawn into pyramid schemes just sharing their nudes for pocket change
Yep. There is definitely a strong market for it. And i firmly believe it alleviates tensions enough to prevent a lot of assaults
If only there were some way to judge if the pornographization of society had led to more assaults and trafficking 🤔
Very cool to steal the arguments pedophiles use to justify what’s on their hard drives.
Always a great question to ask software nerds. Great thread idea dude!
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Pretty bold talk for someone who setup a snitch line lol. But it’s a good phrase to follow. Unfortunately lots of people use it when they’re engaging in felonious levels of criminal behavior on a corporate and government level. Hating regulation, wanting small small small government - it’s all because they want to engage in exploitative, unethical, toxic and criminal business practices and they want the government to fuck off about it.
But I digress lol :-)
it should be decriminalized and it shouldn’t be financially compulsory for the desperate
Sex work wouldnt exist in an ideal world, as its usually not mentally healthy for the sex worker in the long term.
But since we dont live in an ideal world I would rather legalise it and create laws that protect sex workers instead of criminalising them.
Its the same with all drugs (including cigarettes and alcohol).
What are the long term risks associated with being a sex worker? Is that any different than being a long term call center worker or secretary, or construction worker?
I think it is because having sex is such an inimate thing and as a sex worker you have to do it even with people you are not intimate with and at times when you dont want to be intimate. The sheer number of sex partners probably also doesnt help.
And then there are the assholes who will straight up step over boundaries and directly create trauma.
I live in Germany where sex work legal btw (and I think it should be kept that way).
Comparing the risks to other work is hard, as the risks vary from person to person and from workplace to workplace in each job.
But I would consider doing sex work if I would have to work in a callcenter otherwise lol
Or coal miner, or electrician, or soldier or cop, or park ranger, etc etc etc.
I think the opposite. I think sex work as it exists mostly now, wouldn’t be like this in an ideal world. But in an ideal world everything is perfect. So let’s say a world that has ideal economics, people don’t have to resort to this as an act of desperation. But even in such a world, surely there are lonely people? Or people who are just extremely unlucky in love? Or those who don’t have a lifestyle that fits with a long-term relationship? Or those who would like but aren’t ready? The list goes on. One constant that remains in 99.99% of us is one of the most fundamental primal instincts we have - to procreate. This is why food and sex are so enjoyable. Because evolution has led to these things being so great since the genes responsible for that enjoyment have thrived the most and allowed our species to thrive as a whole.
So I think in a world with ideal economics, where everyone can survive and live in health regardless of their luck or opportunities, there will still always be those individuals who crave intimacy and deserve it just as much as anyone. That is where sex workers would be vital.
Literally not different from any kind of therapeutic practitioner.
In an ideal world people who just want casual sex would find each other. And people who want love as well. In an ideal world everyone would also have someone they are an ideal match to.
The only way I see people getting paid to have sex in an ideal world is if they get paid because their sex is so good, like top athletes.
Well I was trying to talk about reality and not fantasy.
We will never live in an ideal world, we can only approach it.
So, yeah, I wasnt referring to reality.
My take is this.
I will guarantee universal basic job & income for everyone.
Once that’s guarantee I’ll see if anyone is willingly becoming a sex worker.
Without performing that “experiment” I cannot really respond.
A very interesting take. I like that we’re questioning the root cause here.
I think you’ll find that there’s still quite a crowd that would. UBI for sure would help curb the those on the street scene just trying to pay to survive. But there’s a huge group of only fans models that do things not to survive, but rather to become ultra wealthy
Add universal heath care including addiction treatment. This might or might not include de-penalization of addiction, depending on the jurisdiction. Breakdown this more to make clear what I mean. Besides the obvious complementarity between UBI and universal health care, people get to do this because they are also addicted, not just poor. Some are also manipulated by means of being addicted. The current approach that punishes the addicted instead of treating them only makes this worse. Countries that have made addiction a healthcare issue rather than a criminal one have seen results.
Let’s take the opposite approach: look at all the top echelons of all past societies, assume that this subset of people was the most free to live in any way that they so desired, then count how many of these people did sex work. I think that we can safely assume that the amount of people that willingly engage in sex work is zero.
I’ll just respond to your take:
The idea to earn for a living doesn’t seem nice.
For you it doesn’t. For others, mind your own business.
sex should be for 2 people (or more for others who prefer polyamory) who wants to be intimate/romantic with each other.
For you it should. For others, mind your own business.
money should not be the purpose.
For you it shouldn’t. For others, mind your own business.
If you have any desire at all to weigh in or or take a position on the consensual sex lives of other adults, you’re just revealing how little you respect the freedom and autonomy of other people. You’re just revealing your desire to control others.
Pretty much perfect answer right here. This is downright encyclopedic.
Why not? People have less and less other jobs to do. From stories of courtesans realise that life forced them to do it. So that we understand each other - if you are “bitching”, do it not on the side, but officially - because then the other party suffers - in false version.
I disapprove of other people’s choices only when it negatively impacts the life of others. If sex work is legal and regulated and taxed and there is a robust social safety net, then all that’s left to disapprove of is the sex itself, which is for religious zealots, not normal people. Sex is a drive honed over hundreds of millions of years, there is literally nothing more normal.
If it has been made illegal, then I may disapprove of the laws which make it illegal (ie: we don’t disapprove of anti-trafficking laws), but if such laws are in place, I cannot approve of the illegal work, because unsavory shit comes along with it that negatively impacts other people.
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Yes and no. I generally don’t care what consenting adults do between each other no matter if there is money involved.
BUT: I have also seen the ugly side of sex work due to working as paramedic in some not so nice areas. Very often sex work is not really consensual and very often people are forced into it one way or another. We have to definitely handle this situation as a society. This includes more accessible social welfare (and yet we are miles ahead of the US here), very rigid surveillance of the situation and prosecution of people exploiting sex workers.
Funnily enough I think porn by now is far worse than sex work - while someone can get past sex work somewhat easily (I know a consultant doctor who is a former sex worker) by simply changing the environment it is almost impossible with porn. The internet does not forget and while you can always deny doing sex work for porn there is physical evidence that people did that. Add the upcoming AI fakes and it becomes even more of a problem.
Tbh,I have no idea how we should tackle that problem.
I watched a fairly recent youtube video podcast with a traditional porn actor and an onlyfans performer. The actor (cherie deville) talked about all the control she had, regular testing, and overall safety. The OF performer had none of that and basically described her last on camera act that devolved into SA and extortion. From that, I got the impression there is still some ethical porn out there and a lot that’s not since just anyone can create and push content now.
hey look reactionary content from .world! Shocked
Sex work is work.
