I’ve got two F710s and they’re reliable enough. I wouldn’t trust them in pro gaming though.
If I got in the sub and saw one of these used to steer it, I’d be very concerned. I know they’re not really blaming Logitech; just taking one of these out of the plastic packaging and saying ‘OK, now we’ve got steering and propulsion!’ is not really a safety culture to get behind.
Oh yeah, the controller is clearly the one a fault here…
I mean, they clearly made this for an submersible, one made of carbon fibre specifically.
That controller is known for just forgetting it’s tethered to anything or suddenly veering off for no reason. I know because I have had one for years.
Just taking a guess here but the controller was probably brought up as evidence for how much they were cutting corners and disregarding safety and good sense, not as the cause of the failure
I wouldn’t use a wireless controller playing subnautica. This is on the company for using sub par tech. Next time use first party wired!
sub par tech
Nice pun
I own 3 of those. They are not for PS or XBox but for mostly for PC gaming. They are not Bluetooth, they come with their dedicated USB nano receiver. I don’t even trust them to win a championship in “F1 race stars”, the arcade F1 game. The wireless is not reliable enough. They eat AA batteries like candy.
Absolutely agreed and I’ve had to replace the shoulder bumpers on mine twice now. ALSO the trigger traverse is RIDICULOUSLY LONG! Like I can fire an actual semi pistol faster and those have a five lb draw.
But man do they feel nice in the hand. No controller since the ps2 has felt like this to me.
Question. Who are they actually suing? Didn’t the bozo die along with everyone else? So who would hold responsibility?
It appears they are suing OceanGate, the company that made the submarine. The use of cheap, consumer grade hardware for critical functions (literally controlling the sub) is one of their criticisms.
I don’t see why the controller is a problem.
If you go out and custom-make a controller, it’s not likely going to be more reliable than anything that Logitech makes.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military-xbox-360-controller
US Army used to spend $38,000 per controller until they found out Xbox controllers were better
Now if the controls break, “I can go to any video game store and procure an Xbox controller anywhere in the world, so it makes a very easy replacement,” Senior Chief Mark Eichenlaub told The Virginian-Pilot
That sounds like a great way to get malware!
Do you regularly get malware from xbox controllers?
Bad USB is ABSOLUTELY a vector for state sponsored hacking. As has USB sticks (or devices) sold in sketchy shops.
https://smartermsp.com/tech-time-warp-the-usb-drive-that-changed-military-cybersecurity/
The virus in question was agent.btz, a piece of “autorun” malware. In 2008, agent.btz infected U.S. Central Command, which was running the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
See also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BadUSB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
Pretty nuts to see I got downvoted for this. This is cybersecurity 101 shit. Don’t plug untrusted USB devices into sensitive infrastructure. I’m not saying using an Xbox controller is a bad idea. I’m saying plugging an Xbox controller bought in a port side sketchy electronics shop into a freaking nuclear sub is. If they are sourcing it from Microsoft I am have no issues with it.
Even if it is the best built controller ever. It was wireless and should not have been used. In terms of safety it’s not something you want to solely rely on. As the article says: “every sub in the world has hardwired controls for a reason”. Logitech is not blamed for anything. It’s about OceanGate using this controller among many other questionable choices.
iirc they mentioned the f710 constantly disconnected.
Sounds about right from my experience with the F710.
Yeah, but if you’re going to use a wireless controller, don’t fucking skimp and get some cheapo device, at least buy a goddamned 1st party controller. Not that MS/Sony don’t have lemons too, but Logitech controllers are like a half step from the crappy MadKatz controllers from my childhood.
This had to be a project costing somewhere in the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, and they’re trying to save $30 on an aftermarket controller?!? That’s the literal embodiment of Penny Wise, pound foolish.
Actually that specific model of controller has been around for like 15-20 years and is pretty solid, especially the wired version the f310.
When I was in high-school our FRC team used them, and I remember the analog sticks usually lasted for quite a while considering they where getting hammered every night during practice season, and abused during competition. They got shipped, thrown, tossed around, and even got a little percussive maintenance once and a while.
Try that shit with a genuine Nintendo Joycon and get back to me.
The reason its cheap is the same reason it works so well. It really hasn’t changed all that much since they introduced the design like 20 years ago. Its basically a ps2 controller with Xbox face-button glyphs, analog triggers, and a USB cable.
Honestly I think the only reason they updated it in 2010 was for xinput compatibility.
That’s only assuming the sub was running windows, where Xbox controllers work out of the box. On Linux there are no first party drivers, and Bluetooth support on the 1/S controllers simply didn’t exist at the time this happened. If it was an embedded system there would be no support whatsoever.
Huh what? Dual Shock 4 controllers are supported OOTB. With additional support via Userland software. In fact Sony published drivers for DS5. XBox original controllers just work. Therws plenty of first party support.
I haven’t used dual shock so I can’t speak to that, but as far as Xbox 1/S controllers, there is no 1st party support - literally all the drivers are from some non-MS affiliated GitHub page. 360 controllers required the xpad driver as well - that isn’t 1st party support. Yes they work out of the box with steam if you are using a wired connection, but that’s because it’s going through steaminput (not 1st party either), and making the controls of the submarine dependent on being launched through steam is even more absurd. Gen 2 series 1/S controllers didn’t work via Bluetooth for a long time after they (silently) launched on most LTS Linux OSs due to the kernel missing requisite BLE functionality
Logitech… the company whose 150 dollar mouse have double click issues months into the purchase?
Estate, insurance companies
The company itself (oceangate) still exists. The estate of Stockton Rush is also named in the suit.
The classic little brother defence flipped as prosecution. It was the controller all along.
Logitech has great lawyers. It’s almost guaranteed that there a “this controller’s intended use is only for ____” in their purchase agreement paperwork.
No way is this lawsuit going anywhere
They are not suing Logitech. They’re suing OceanGate and using the controller as an example of poor design and decision making.
This is what happens from only reading the title and making assumptions…
IMO that argument weakens their case. The controller was one of the least problematic things they did. Mechanical controls would have compromised the hull even more, so it was always going to be controlled electronically. I hope the complaint at least offers examples of better options and how those would have had any effect at all on hull integrity.
but it seems likely that the Logitech controller—along with the five people on the sub—is gone forever.
Love it
What a stupid waste of time and resources.
Pretty sure the fly by wire system isn’t why the beer can imploded.
The vast majority of the cause of the 3 mile island nuclear meltdown was a moisture soaked compressor pump completely unrelated to any of the safety or emergency systems. With complicated failures, the actual fault is not always easy to detect.
It’s reasonable to think that the controller might have contributed to unexpected descent past safety levels, or prevented them from recovering when warnings appeared.
Three mile island did not have a meltdown, ffs. Not even close.
Three mile island did not have a meltdown, ffs. Not even close.
“The Three Mile Island accident was a partial nuclear meltdown”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident
You are technically correct, and that is the best kind of correct. I spoke from frustration, having grown up there. What i should have said was that there was no danger to the public, it was fully contained behind multiple redundant safety containments. Its frustrating because i feel like that incident stalled nuclear energy in this country since then.
I wouldn’t say no danger, but the danger was averted. It did even release radioactive material, but not enough to be dangerous.
It could have gone much worse, but it didn’t.
Is it because everything else on the sub was ordered from aliexpress and pieced together? This was the only part from a legitimate manufacturer?
Could be worse. Could have used a left Joy-con.
Srsly, it’s clear these guys didnt play video games with controllers growing up. Could you imagine getting left drift down there!?
They should have had an entirely redundant system on there; the controller being the first item on the list and from there to the motors.
You joke, but watch this:
https://archive.org/details/take-me-to-titanic
from 29 minutes in. A last-minute adjustment before launch plugged in a thruster backwards; no protocol to check the behaviour prelaunch. They doscovered it when they got to the bottom.
Jebus, I cant believe the engineers would allow them to be plugged wrong. It’s so easy to design that mistake away
At this point filing a multi-million dollar lawsuit against OceanGate will be like trying to extract blood from a stone.
What tangible assets do OceanGate really have left to pay Nargeolet’s estate? Their CEO (the maverick aerospace engineer who thought he was ‘revolutionizing’ the submarine industry by cutting corners) is dead, their only active submersible imploded, their reputation has been tainted by the fact that they’ve been selling billionaires what is effectively a carbon fiber coffin waiting to implode, and any angel investors have probably pulled out harder than a porn star on the verge of climax.
Even then, they may not even have a case. IANAL but in an age where every single tech and gaming company has been pushing through class action waivers and forced arbitration clauses in their Terms of Service, I get the feeling that any attempts at suing OceanGate will be thrown out of court by the waivers each passenger had to sign.
There is a sense of irony in people celebrating this disaster on social media because it means “five less billionaires in the world.” No, this is potentially a massive L for us commoners, because it shows just how much corporate greed can destroy lives. If the rich can be screwed this badly by an unregulated corporation, imagine what corporate giants can do to people who can’t afford lawyers.
Movie pitch - to pay all its lawsuits, OceanGate launches one final desperate mission to the wreck of the San José.
I’ve owned this controller for years. Can confirm it sucks.
This controller kept me in rocket league gold for months. I put it on eBay and some shmuck said they need it in a submarine but are on a budget so max can do is three fiddy. I just wanted to get rid of the thing
Goddamn Loch Ness monster!
