Everybody here is saying it’s feminism or metoo. But if she’s been dating for long enough to notice these differences, then she might just be getting older.
Teenagers will spend a lot of time wooing the person they want. Middle-aged people have no time and will simply move on to the next person who’s not playing games.
Teenagers will spend a lot of time wooing the person they want. Middle-aged people have no time and will simply move on to the next person who’s not playing games.
Bingo. Adults have no time for stupid games. Kids do.
The question of adulthood is not determined by age though. Particularly when it comes to relationships (including non romantic ones)
“No means no” means “no means no.” You don’t get to have it both ways!
Look, lady, we went through decades of the women’s lib movement to finally get guys to respect your wishes and quit harassing you with unwanted advances. But now you expect us to be clairvoyant or some shit when you say “no” but don’t really mean it?!
Fuck that! You get respected whether you like it or not.
IMO, a lot of this “lady’s” complaint is a result of equality, and the “me too” movement (and related concepts). None of which is bad. I’ll make that clear. This is not a bad thing.
Guys are respecting me, and leaving me alone when I say so? Omg, what a fucking shocker. Something that should have always been the case is happening and she’s… What? Upset about it?
Does she want to date rapists? People who would physically and emotionally force themselves on their victims? That’s the exact behavior we’re trying to eliminate. WTF?
Lady, as a guy, I want to inform you that, we’re not the problem here.
If you like someone, and they ask you on a date, say yes. It’s that simple.
There’s a weird hyper-romanticized idea of men sweeping women off their feet with grand gestures and soul moving ballads.
But these tend to be storybook romances that imply the woman is pinning for the man and just looking for an excuse to say yes.
What’s Prince Charming supposed to do when you say you’re not interested? Just stare at you like a whipped dog and making whimpering sounds until you come around?
Idk, lady. If hitting on people is so easy, why don’t you try it?
Saw a girl post a video talking about “Men aren’t persistent anymore. My father asked out my mother and she said no, she was a waitress and he kept asking until she agreed to go out with him. My uncle did the same thing with my aunt, she was a cruise director and he was in the band on the ship, and he kept on asking what will it take for you to go out with me?”
Miss, your father and uncle grew up in a time when you could pay your college tuition working at Steak & Shake, get a white collar breadwinning job by looking the manager in the eye and giving him a firm handshake, buy a house for $20,000 and ask out a coworker without being fired. Here in 2024 saying “Hey do you want to go out for coffee sometime” is a career ending move. Asking out a waitress is how you signal the manager to ask you to leave the bar or restaurant. Compared to the 80’s or 90’s women in the United States handle being asked out very badly. “The worst she can say is no” is very much no longer the case. So if he even bothers to shoot his shot at all anymore “persistence” isn’t even in his head.
Here in 2024 saying “Hey do you want to go out for coffee sometime” is a career ending move.
That’s simply not true. Not unless you’re asking it persistently, to the point where people find it annoying.
And I think that’s the hitch people get caught on. They don’t realize when they’re being annoying, so they’re either too brash or too shy.
Yeah everyone has their own limit before it becomes a problem. There are some women out there who are taking to Tiktok asking “why don’t men approach me at work anymore?” She’s outright open to it. There are women out there who will overlook an unwanted advance or two if it isn’t a recurring problem. And there are some women out there whose limit is “any attention at all whatsoever. Catcalling should be a felony #metoo.” There are men who report being disciplined or fired for so much as saying “I like that outfit.” How many mines do you have to plant in a field before you start calling it a minefield?
In any case it certainly makes “being persistent” sound like a very bad strategy, doesn’t it? I think we can label that strategy well and truly dead.
There are men who report being disciplined or fired for so much as saying “I like that outfit.”
bull. shit.
There are men who report being disciplined or fired for so much as saying “I like that outfit.”
I work in this area, and in my experience, there is way more going on than just a compliment about an outfit whenever someone is getting disciplined. Employees who claim that usually have no ability to self-reflect about the extent or appropriateness of their behaviour.
One of my favorite things to witness (usually via video) is someone being persistent, to the point of annoyance, bring told “no” every time, with varying degrees of profanity mixed in… Then when something happens that makes the annoying person who is persistent finally stop (usually involving physical violence), they say “all you had to do was say no!”
Aaaahahahaha. You were an annoying little shit and wouldn’t take no for an answer despite being told no repeatedly. You deserved what you got, you dumb fuck.
Hahha bullshit.
I say bring back the good old days of sexual harassment and fifty layers of meaning wrapped in a frilly bodice.
cracks knuckles Let’s piss some people off tonight.
This is sound mating strategy for homo sapiens.
Take yourself out of generational context. Forget religion, social mores and written history. Think back 100,000 years. Think game theory. Think only in terms of selfish genes.
A promiscuous female is a loss for the male. Whose kid is he raising? Massive waste for the male if it’s not his genes.
(Insert note regarding the hypothesis as to why our dicks are shovel shaped. Add observations of male mammals killing their rival’s offspring and note how we see this in modern men.)
A child requires an extraordinary output of time and energy, for both parties, far more than other mammals. Childbirth is also extraordinarily dangerous for big-brained primate females; big heads, helpless infancy and so forth.
The female needs her mate to stick around and care for her and her child during pregnancy through early child rearing. After all, she’s going to be the very definition of handicapped for a couple of years. (Insert note regarding the hypothesis that grandmothers partially fill this role and why women live longer.) If she hasn’t been picky and chosen a solid mate, her and her child may well die.
Now the male has to push back against this resistance. If he’s not the type to push, he doesn’t make babies, pass on his genes. To put a finer point on it, if he’s not attracted enough to effort the chase, he may be a slut who will run off. Refer to previous paragraph.
tl;dr: Evolution selected for hard-to-get females and pushy males.
I give this one a 2/10, too obvious with the crack knuckles
Now imagine this: Every now and again a species makes a great evolutionary leap. Men respecting women’s decisions and women being honest about what they want could be the next stage of human evolution.
We can change and history and genetics show that our cultural choices really do influence our evolution.
What you’re essentially describing here is evolutionary psychology. Now, I won’t go as far as some have to say that it’s an entirely bunk field of study, primarily because I’m nowhere near qualified to make those claims. But I will say that it’s a field that has received a lot of criticism for being full of poor science and “just-so” stories without a basis in good science, and that even if some aspects of the field are valid, it has frequently been misapplied in popscience to promote incel/alt-right worldviews.
The bunk part is the overconfidence in the conclusion, not necessarily the ponderance.
Because people are more than someone else’s summation and over-simplification of their evolutionary history.
If they weren’t, then social evolution wouldn’t exist. Hence, the alt-right adoption.
That’s the bunk, that, and they were being a total dildo.
The thing that makes me chuckle is how these evolutionary psychology little stories always forget the most basic thing: humans are social animals that live in clans.
Others have hammered on how incorrect this is but I do want to point one thing out
the female needs her mate to stick around and care for her and her child during pregnancy through early child rearing
This is assuming a 1950s style atomic family unit which is an extremely new concept. Evidence suggests our shared pre-agriculture ancestors lived in small hunter gatherer groups. These groups would share responsibilities, like a family, but not necessarily all be closely related. “it takes a village to raise a child” and everything.
I know you’re trying to make an argument, but your word choice and way of presenting the arguments is giving off major incel vibes.
I expected this response because I frequently used the word “female”. This is a biology discussion, not a sociological one. I tried to take care to set and keep the tone scientific and not “in common parlance”. And perhaps I failed.
As to “incel”, I’ve had 50+ lovers in this life, the very opposite of involuntarily celibacy. What this says about my psychological needs, well, I’ve been thinking on that lately, not liking my own reflection. Thank god I’m with my wife and those days seem at a close.
As to the science of my post, I welcome challenges! Challenges to my ideas are how I learn.
I expected this response because I frequently used the word “female”. This is a biology discussion, not a sociological one.
This is a shitpost on lemmy, stop pretending that you’re an acclaimed professor presenting at a conference or something lol.
Add observations of male mammals killing their rival’s offspring and note how we see this in modern men.
No, we don’t see this. Men do not routinely kill their rivals’ offspring and, if they did, the mother would want them locked up.
Most of your logic implicitly assumes that males and females pair up. The game theory is quite different otherwise. What makes you think that our ancestors 100,000 years ago did this, when you’re explicitly comparing them to mammal species that don’t?
You succeeded at line 1, I’ll give you that.
Yeah, this is some evolutionary psychology shit. A subject that is pure bullshit, we simply do not know enough about a biological history, or how the brain developed, and works, to truly, accurately, ascribe psychological phenomenon directly to evolutionary considerations.
Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/775/
The lack of evidence is one thing, but his argument contradicts itself.
He says that:
- the heavy investment that women make in their offspring means that they go to great lengths to make sure that their partners are committed
- we observe modern men killing their (the women’s) offspring in the expectation that those women will turn around and have children with them instead.
Apparently, the women failed to select fathers who would stick around to defend their offspring, and they’re happy to mate with men who kill the children that they have invested so much in. This strategy is clearly bad, so evolution would select against it.
Imagine being gay. Lol
Did Andrew Tate watch a nature documentary about Lucy, or something?
Lady, if you can’t keep up, you’re gonna get left behind. Adapt or fail.
My money’s on fail
I don’t play mind games. If you said no, I just trust you are being honest. I move on. If you weren’t being honest, shame on you for one, and two, you definitely don’t have the character I’m looking for in a partner.
I like to take out a weapon and ask them to reconsider
A gun to the head makes a pretty good point
Take them out in a boat and then they won’t say no… because of the implications.
What do we need a mattress for?
You either send strong incel vibes or forgot to add “/s” after your message.
I hope it’s the latter.
I’m sorry but I would not sully my perfect sarcasm with a tone indicator.
We shouldn’t have to add
/severy time because sarcasm can just be obvious every once in a while.Yes please. Don’t be robots who need syntax to understand a joke
do note that a lot of autistic people specifically relate to robot characters in media and rather depend on explicit markings to have a chance of knowing when people are sarcastic or joking.
I just assume everyone is always joking. It never goes wrong.
I’m in that spectrum too, and talking about pulling out weapons can’t be serious. Easy marker there
Why play these games? Why waste my time? I am not 15, if you do this shit, I don’t care about you anymore and I’ll just find someone else
Women like to be chased. It’s an ego boost for them, they like the attention.
Women also hate indicating consent. They like consent, but they hate indicating it. Because if she never says yes she can have you arrested for sexual assault/rape/whatever. Women LOVE hurting people if they have bad feelings and that’s a great way to hurt people, they won’t give that up for ANYTHING.
They want to be chased, so they don’t say yes because that would end the chase. They don’t want to imply consent to continue to chase, so they don’t say things like “not yet” or “you’ll have to do better than that.” That would give up their “ruin this man’s life on a whim for free” card. So they say no. Man says “okay have a nice night” and walks away forever. Woman posts video on Tiktok asking where all the good men have gone.
There’s a clue to the problem with your analysis:
Women like
Women also
They like
They want
They hate
They don’t
Do you see it? You’re referring to roughly half our entire species, 3-4 billion people, as though they are all a single unit with singular preferences. Try seeing humans as humans, it’s pretty wild your first time out.
I’ve been fed that line a lot. “Every single woman is a completely unique snowflake that cannot be compared to any other person, place or thing.”
Sure. /s it is completely invalid to address tendencies in women’s collective behavior. /s. It’s not like women are massively effected by trends or peer pressure to conform to their in-group or anything. /s. This line totally isn’t an intellectually dishonest non-argument designed to shut down any discussion you don’t like without valid rebuttal. /s
So if I find one woman who disagrees with your claim (“women hate indicating consent”), you’ll concede your argument is faulty? Because I’ve known several.
If you modify your argument to “Some women…” then that’s slightly more defensible , but not really meaningful because there’s all sorts of people. You could probably find someone who believes anything.
If you want to say “most women” then you’re going to need to show your work.
No I don’t because only the Sith deal in absolutes. You obviously have nothing of value to say other than pedantic bitching about your own inability to grasp generalizations. Goodbye.
Well you certainly lived up to your name.
And storming off is certainly one way to deal with people questioning if your generalizations have any validity, but I don’t think it’s the best way.
You’re insufferable.
your own inability to grasp generalizations
You are the one incapable of grasping generalizations and their meaning apparently. Maybe don’t use them if you don’t understand them?
Oh, I see! You don’t understand yet that everyone else is an individual just like you are. Don’t worry little buddy, you’ll get there - just a few hundred million more years of evolution. I’m rooting for you!
Condescension, attacks on my person, I still haven’t heard any actual rebuttal. Other than “You said ‘women’ plural so nothing you ever say can possibly be correct” do you have anything to say about what I’ve said?
Would you read a book or two? There’s “Delusions for Gender” by Cordelia Fine and “Sex, Lies, and Bran Scans”, both of which talk about gender, sex, and brains and how humans in general all think alike. We are more alike than we are different.
Doesn’t sound worth my time.
The fuck are you talking about?
Quoting the image in the original post, apparently made by a person with a woman’s picture as their avatar:
Do you notice that men are no longer persuasive? Once they ask you out on a date and you say No. That’s it 😑
This implies she wants men to continue persuing her after she’s said no. This is not a unique sentiment from women; I have seen many women making Tiktok videos saying basically this. “Why aren’t men approaching women anymore?” “Where have all the men gone?” “Why am I not being asked out?” “Why did he take me seriously when I said no?” Why do you think they’re like this?
Do you see any issue with your extrapolation of this sample N=1 to ca 4B people?
- I specifically said this isn’t the first or only time I’ve seen this sentiment expressed so I’m not extrapolating from a sample size of one, you are a dishonest person, and
- You’re not the only person this hour to pull this “AHA! You said ‘women’, plural, which means nothing you ever say can be correct, QED” bullshit. Do they teach that in gender studies class or something?
It makes sense you’d have to ask what they teach in a gender studies class. You definitely strike me as someone who hasn’t seen a college campus. Too many women there, right? And as the queen pickme, you’d feel too inadequate.
I went to college for five years majoring in Aeronautics and Aviation Maintenance. We had actual things to study.
What a weird thing to say.
Harris-Walz 2024
Bro is having a paranoid episode. lol. Went from “Society has changed” to some incel-level shit real fast. XD
uh, no means no lol. have a good one if you’re not going to suggest a different time date and just flat out “no”.
If I had a dollar for every girl that found me unattractive, girls would find me attractive.
Oh man that’s a good paradox.
This is where “no means no” got you, lady.
It got you to “You have to say yes now. With your entire mouth.”
I went home with a lady friend, who invited me into her bed, then said that we’re not going to do anything. So, I didn’t even try, and we just talked and cuddled. FF to two years later, and we start dating, and she questioned why I didn’t try anything that night. Like, duh. A lady says no, it means no. That is what I’ve had drilled into me as a male since I was a very young age. I’m so damn scared of being called for sexual harassment.
I’m so damn scared of being called for sexual harassment.
So, you aren’t worried about sexually assaulting somebody? You’re just worried about being caught?
They clearly said they didn’t sexually assault her
And they clearly said the reason why they didn’t do it was because they didn’t want to be “called for sexual harassment”. Not because they respect women and consent, but because they didn’t want to be caught.
Can I introduce you to multivariate motivation?
Dude you’re being purposefully obtuse and pedantic. It’s super lame. Nobody enjoys a conversation with someone who purposefully misunderstands you then starts arguing about it.
Don’t feed the trolls
Oh fuck off, you not only knew what they meant, you’re being awfully dismissive of what even a claim of sexual assault can do to a person.
you’re being awfully dismissive of what even a claim of sexual assault can do to a person.
What do you think being sexually assaulted can do to a person?
What are you doing? There’s no need for playing these games. You know exactly what people are saying and you’re still instigating.
Don’t feed the trolls
I was gonna say. Thanks.
You should be a basketball player if you can reach like that
What you said is a bit childish. No, definitely not scared of this because it will never happen. I’m not going to do this because I’ll ensure there is consent first. Please read and understand what I said… (edit: grammar)
You did the right thing. She fumbled you.
I’m so damn scared of being called for sexual harassment.
OK, if all you people over there are like this, and you still do have functional relationships, maybe I’m really just unlikable and don’t constantly fail at reading the signs.
Or somehow only likable for the particular kind of women who communicate with signs only. There definitely, confidently were such cases, but!
Really hard to believe it’s a cultural thing.
I’m not scared. For me, that’s like being afraid of being accused of murder.
Quite right. No one is going to accuse me of murder because I have never, and would never murder anyone. Same is true if sexual harassment or assault.
No one will ever misconstrue my actions as sexual harassment or assault because…surprise…I don’t do those things. All sexual contact I have with people is wholly consensual, and consent is acquired with no pressure on the other party(-ies), in a sober state, and in advance.
The only way I’m ever going to be accused of any wrongdoing toward another human…harassment, assault, murder, or otherwise…is if someone has a vendetta against me because I chose to not tolerate their bullshit for whatever reason. In which case, I have a wealth of friends and exes who would be very happy to serve as character references.
In short: If you are worrying about being accused of sexual harassment or assault, then you are approaching relationships wrong.
So, fun story. My ex-wife, when we were dating, told me that she was raped by her dad after her parents were divorced. She said that this was why sexual intimacy was difficult for her. (I urged her to go into couples therapy wth me. She refused.) When we were going to get married, she invited her dad to the wedding, and I asked her about that; she said that it was actually her mom’s boyfriend that had raped her, not her dad. But she very, very definitely said her dad did it, and it was clear from the context surrounding the conversation at the time that she knew I was interpreting her statement as being about her biological father.
So there are a few possibilities here. First, both her mom’s boyfriend and her dad raped her when she was a pre-teen. It’s not impossible, but it seems improbable. And also, why invite one of her her rapists to her wedding, and why try to re-build a relationship with him? And why lie to me when I said WTF? Second, her father really did rape her, and the boyfriend didn’t. Cool, now she’s falsely accused her mom’s ex- of rape, and is trying to build a relationship with her rapist. Third, the boyfriend raped her; but why did she tell me her father had? Why drag him through the mud? Why not say that it was her mom’s BF in the first place? Fourth–and this is the one I lean towards–she was not raped by either, and it was a convenient excuse to give me to explain why she wasn’t interested in sex with me without saying she didn’t like sex. Given that the decade we were married was nearly sexless, and that she eventually claimed to be asexual (which I doubt, since I know for certain that her sex life once we split was far, far busier than it had been when we were dating or married), that’s the one that seems most probable.
I am a big nerd when it comes to relationship theory. I heavily advocate for purposeful relationships in which each party makes it well-known what their wants, needs, dealbreakers, boundaries, STI status, etc. are well before clothes come off.
I regularly hear people reply, “Lol no, you start talking like that and she’s gonna nope out because she’s not gonna find that sexy at all.” To which I reply, “Then maybe you’re dating the wrong people.” The people in my circles…men, women, and enbies alike…highly value consent, so when a potential partner starts this discussion, it is very, very sexy. It shows that they value our safety, sexual health, informed consent and bodily autonomy, and people like that are the only people for whom I will ever take my clothes off.
Yup, I’m a professional dominatrix and having these open conversations is a must. If done correctly, it invites deeper intimacy and helps the relationship grow - it doesn’t drive people away. The only reason honesty would drive someone away, is exactly the reason you should be honest - so they can have informed consent about what’s taking place and say no if they want to. If someone isn’t allowed to say “no” in the first place, then whether they say yes is irrelevant. Can’t consent if you can’t dissent.
Not into much BDSM myself but I am polyam and date a lot of kinksters, so much love and respect to you. 😊
I have never, and would never murder anyone.
But this is exactly what a murderer would say
It was a joke and you missed it
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It was a joke that spoke well to a serious issue, and you missed that.
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Oh, certainly not!
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I’m very curious how that conversation continued after you said no means no.
She was surprised at my answer, because it wasn’t what other guys would have done. I guess ultimately she respected it because we dated for a few years.
You did the right thing.
Honestly, this weird dichotomy of “playing hard to get” and expecting the guy to make a move after being told no is in the process of dying, but it could go faster.
I often wonder how much slut shaming has to do with women who expect/want this sort of behavior from men. Does it make them feel like they aren’t “responsible” for the sexual encounter if the guy is pushy, therefore they aren’t a slut?
I’ve always wondered about it since I hated pushy dudes when I was still dating. My husband had excellent manners and etiquette, that’s what initially attracted me to him, so this one is a mystery.
Maybe one day someone can figure it out and explain it to me.
I often wonder how much slut shaming has to do with women who expect/want this sort of behavior from men.
Honestly, probably a lot. Women are every bit as horny as men are in their late teens and 20s, but there’s a ton of social pressure on women to be both virgins and whores; not have sex, but be sexually desirable. (Meanwhile, men mostly get told that they’re supposed to be ready to go all the time.) The old Christmas song, “Baby It’s Cold Outside” relies on this whole trope; she wants to say yes, but she can’t just say yes; she needs to have some excuse. And he knows that, so he’s trying to give her the excuse she wants. But to our ears now it ends up sounding very rape-y.
I often wonder how much slut shaming has to do with women who expect/want this sort of behavior from men. Does it make them feel like they aren’t “responsible” for the sexual encounter if the guy is pushy, therefore they aren’t a slut?
this is 99% of it. It’s about plausible deniability if things don’t go well. it’s all about pushing all the responsibility onto the man.
When have you ever met a woman admit to being bad at sex?
My husband and I met at a friend’s house and both ended up staying the night. The friend went up to his room, my husband set up the pull out couch for me to lay on… and then went to go sleep on the recliner. It was fucking adorable and I’m pretty sure that right there was the moment I decided he needed to be mine. I laughed at him and told him he needed to get his ass over to the bed because there was no way we weren’t going to at least cuddle after making eyes at each other for 6 hours straight, lol.
Respect is fucking hot. I don’t understand guys who don’t get that, or women who don’t think the same way.
I understand it. They think respect and consent is weak and pathetic. They want ‘strong’ people who violate others boundaries.
You did the right thing. I helped a lady friend move out from her husband’s when they split. She didn’t want to stay in a new apartment all alone, so I offered to spend the night on her couch. Well come time to bed down, she wanted me in her bed. Then she wanted to snuggle. Then she started rubbing her backside against my front.
Well I read the signs and we had sex. It was fine. Wind up dating for a bit. Like 3 weeks later we were talking about something and she lays on me, “I never said we could have sex so technically you raped me.”
You do not fucking accuse someone of technically rape as playful banter. Things went awkward and downhill after that. Not solely because of that. She was not ready for a relationship that soon after splitting from her husband, but I was young and horny and too inexperienced to possess the level of maturity necessary to understand that.
Anyway, maybe if I had made sure to give her more time it would’ve gone better. Probably not. But I damn sure wouldn’t have gotten accused of rape.
Technically she raped you too…
I’m not that technical. I was trying really hard to be a good guy but I definitely wanted to fuck her. That whole façade of maturity crumbled at my first opportunity.
It was all bullshit, technically and otherwise. But there’s something about a woman looking at you and saying you raped her that undoes you. There was probably a time in my life after that when I was in danger of going full incel. But I didn’t and here we are. We were both young and dumb and I’m sure she could never have known how deeply that cut.
Yeah… Puuh. That’s not a normal thing to say. If it’s dark humor, and said with irony, it might be perfectly fine, and even funny. Because then, they don’t actually mean it. But, if they do mean it? Sheesh. You dodged a poison leaded bullet.
Hard to explain exactly. I think she meant it humorously, except in a way where she kinda meant it? I think it was in the context of her ex sexually abusing her and me saying I was nothing like that.
It’s not cool to say, “my ex was a crazy bitch.” I was no paragon of maturity myself. But I do think she had some issues. She was about 22 (I think that’s how old I was) and that had been her second marriage, and there were issues with how we treated one another that spoke to both of our immaturities.
I think the whole thing lasted about 3 months, so it wasn’t like it was so bad that I instantly left. But it sticks in my craw nearly thirty years later. On some level, she meant that. And she probably told her next partner I was part of the pattern of abuses she suffered—waving her damage around like a broken wing looking for… something.
She’s probably grown up by now. Most of us do. Those are some really awkward years for a lot of us.
ETA: Thinking on it, the thing is she was trying to bring me down to her ex’s level. She was joking that I shouldn’t hold myself above the guy who abused her. That’s just not funny even in a playful way. No matter how tee hee you say it, that’s toxic as fuck.
Playing hard to get is a big fucking red flag. It shows a lack of maturity and a lack of truthfulness. It also shows a willingness to be deceitful to your partner.
This, right here. Don’t date people who play mindgames. Start a relationship the way you mean for it to continue; with open and honest communication.
Yes, obviously flirting is about dropping hints, and that’s fine, but at the point where the hinting stops and one party says “I’m into you and I hope you’re into me too”, there should be no bullshit. If you like someone you show them the basic respect of saying what you fucking mean.
-
“playing hard to get” is a female fantasy, not a male one. She likes the idea that she’s so HIIIIIIIIIEYEIIIIGH, high above me, she’s so lovely that I’m willing to throw my family in a canyon to prove my worth to her. Boosts her delusions of grandeur.
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There is a certain kind of men who do enjoy the chase. They call themselves “pickup artists.” Normal men are either looking for something casual or something long term, and in both cases they’re interested in finding a woman who is also looking for similar terms and don’t really want that chore maximized or complicated beyond what it already is.
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Women do not know how to play hard to get. They implement “hard to get” as “flatly refuse.” I think a separate hatred of expressing consent is why they don’t say something like “You’ll have to do better than that.”
Have you ever been inside a sex club?
If you spend even 20 minutes in a sex club, you can watch and see numerous examples of how you’re wrong. It might help you understand the sexual behavior and cues of women.
Sex clubs?? What? No. Most people people learn in normal ways. Also “the sexual behavior and cues of women” is such a creepy way to put that
Sex clubs are normal. They are legal venues where you can watch people interact. Given that it’s a sex club, the interactions are usually sexual. You’d be able to see women doing things like saying no clearly and not minding that at all - that’s actually part of the culture of sex clubs and sex positive spaces.
I don’t think it’s creepy and I’m a woman. What verbiage would you prefer, since you’re a man who needs to police how women talk about other women. Tell me what would help you not feel like a victim when I discuss watching women at a sex club, who are there ostensibly to be watched in the first place.
I think it’s more that you’re scared of rejection and women having choices. You’re too much of a coward to even try to go to one and just see. You watch porn right? But irl, that’s too intimate and you might start seeing these women as people. Can’t have that.
The person you unloaded that reply on wasn’t even the one you originally replied to. Are you okay?
Before you get too affronted by my maybe not super politic words below, understand that you should imagine me in chaps, a chest harness, and a bull horns headpiece if it’s the Halloween Munch, vibing.
A sex club is to advanced empathy as differential equations are to little Timmy’s arithmetic problem, do you not realize this?
It’s a firehouse turned upon hearing someone say their mouth is a mite dry. It’s just the reality: They’re literally categorized as ‘non-mainstream’ spaces precisely because they do not easily fit the currently mainstream view on sexuality or mores, pretty much nowhere.
Not to mention, not the environment to throw in those you suspect of bigotry or misogyny jeez, they’re supposed to be spaces kept clear of that sort of baggage and drama so their purpose can remain clear, consensual, and to the point.
No organizer is going to host a “gawk at our ladies react, learn our etiquette” event, and if they did, that would only maybe help the sort of folk you’re accusing these people of being mask and pass at the Munch.
Not improve their lives long term in any way. There is a reason why you still have to get to a dedicated space to see the things you mention play out as normally as they do, where they are maximally normalized.
People generally can’t act how they do in there in any other social setting and they’re spaces where the things you learn can only translate to your life in some ways (more compassion, better lover, learn to seek and engended enthusiastic consent, etc) but even that generally requires the person going to be arriving ready to take some learning out.
I don’t care if you’ve been pegged in front of everyone at a sex club, that doesn’t make you the leading authority on them. And you certainly aren’t the leading authority on women’s comfort.
I think sex clubs are a great starter and much better than strip clubs or porn theatres. Sex clubs usually have people from all ages and backgrounds, and often have ice breaker event nights like game night, karaoke, bondage, etc. Sex Clubs and kink, like Lemmy, are full of autistic nerds. So much so that I have noticed my subs who play DnD are genuinely better at roleplay and metadiscussions compared to ones who haven’t played.
Also, his behavior isn’t a risk to others because sex clubs (not Munch) are private clubs with rules that you have to sign to enter, and people monitoring activity. He has to follow the rules which includes consent, and yes they allow new people into sex clubs no problem. Building community is one of the best ways to get someone to change their mindset. There’s plenty of misogyny in those spaces without you blaming me, a woman, for it. Yet again men try to make women responsible for their bullshit. What have you said to the poster to help him deconstruct his toxic masculinity and sex phobia? Or do you only have the energy to be shitty to the only obvious woman here?
Voyeurism is 10000000% allowed at sex clubs and it is what the majority of people there do. Most people do not get busy in front of others. And the people who do are often exhibitionists who like that. That’s literally the point of the sex club.
The reason sex clubs are a dedicated space is so people can consent to seeing sex acts happening and being around sex acts. The entire point is that it is founded in consent for those acts at the start. That is what makes it “alternative” - the consent itself, not the acts taking place per se, which are normal in a bedroom setting. That others consent to see it and treat it as a norm is where it becomes alternative. OP would get a masterclass in consent and how it works in front of his eyes. It would probably benefit him.
You are off your rocker, and dangerous to those you share a play space with, wow. I pray you’re that visibly unhinged where others can be warned before they risk their reputations, sanity, or comfort near you.
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I mean, I’m more than happy to play along for the sake of having a playful time… but come on… don’t waste weeks of my life
Ain’t nobody got time for that shit.
Can’t she try herself to ask men out?
Heresy!
If only women knew this simple trick
