For example workplace harrasment by women towards males like touching or groping being ignored because the victim is male but if it where to happen to a woman by a male the male would be fired

  • @ouRKaoS@lemmy.today
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    7211 months ago

    No one calls a woman a babysitter or says she’s “giving dad a break” when she’s somewhere with her own children.

    • @Meltrax@lemmy.world
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      4211 months ago

      I’m about 30. I have friends my age with young (toddler) daughters. They’ve had the police called on them walking with their own child. I’ve had the police called on me watching their daughter for them (these are friends I’ve had for 12 years, I’m basically her uncle).

      Men are assumed to be predators if they are near children.

      • @Brutticus@lemm.ee
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        711 months ago

        I think its the larger double standard; men are sex monsters. A woman and a man can’t be friends. A child with a man is in danger.

        This is connected to; Intimacy is feminine. Men can only be vulnerable or gentle with their partners or families, if then. Its not universal, obviously, but the callous lover and the distant father are not so uncommon so as to be unrecognizable. Intimacy between men is also considered feminine, unless in the military or team sports.

        It’s a world we created as well. Every double standard listed in this thread is a double standard. But it is also something cultivated by the Patriarchy.

      • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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        3811 months ago

        I used to take my twin daughters to the park and we would have daddy day while their mom was at work swing shifts.

        We had pizza at the park, and it worked out because changing their diapers on a shitty blanket was easier than fumbling around on a bench since no one thought to put a diaper tray in any of the men’s restrooms.

        Had the police called on me a few times. Never did they take the call seriously after showing up. One female officer told a Karen that she is annotating this as a fraud call because anyone with half a brain would realize it’s a dad eating pizza with his kids rather than a kidnapper molesting children in public.

        Mom changes a diaper? No one cares.

  • @RagnarokOnline@programming.dev
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    5511 months ago

    In dating or marriage: If a female partner criticizes on her male’s choice of outfit, it’s totally normal. If a male criticizes the choice of outfit of his female partner… a fight is imminent.

    • @iiGxC@slrpnk.net
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      3211 months ago

      Insane expectations being placed on women around beauty and appearance, and the resulting insecurities that creates, play a big role in this

      • @iiGxC@slrpnk.net
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        1811 months ago

        The whole question of double standards is in a sense, asking about common unhealthy traits

      • HubertManne
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        411 months ago

        I see this all the time and my wife can give to hoots what I wear so I have no realtionship issue, but I see it all the time. Honestly it is a realtionship thing. Anyone can criticize a males outfit without to much blowback. If asked an not in a realtionship with a women a man can criticize a womens outfit minorly. If in a relationship they have to have an especially easy going significant other. Like my wife.

  • @Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Well, for one, the ability to freely talk about issues specific to their gender without judgement by ~20% of the population

    • Five
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      11 months ago

      We had to shutter !twoxchromosomes@slrpnk.net because of persistent and vocal judgement by a large population of Lemmy users, many from Lemmy.World. So no, talking about issues specific to their gender is definitely not a double standard where men get the short end of the stick.

      This is why you get judged. Because you so nakedly put on display how much ignorance and little empathy you have for women’s issues.

      !mensliberation@lemmy.ca exists specifically for men who understand their issues in society are intersectional with women’s issues, and that solving them requires uniting to end patriarchy. Any discussion outside of that framing deserves the assumption that it’s a misogynist men’s pity party.

      • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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        2411 months ago

        Men’s Lib on lemmy is an explicitly feminist space, and all the men there are in the pathetic friendzone white knight “women can do no wrong” space.

        • @timestatic@feddit.org
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          211 months ago

          I haven’t checked it out myself but its ridiculous to think women can’t do anything that plays into traditional gender roles that is used to put down men (like men shouldn’t share their feeling for example)

        • sunzu2
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          411 months ago

          You got some examples of this or just based on vibes?

          • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            311 months ago

            You can look yourself if you like. Everything in there is all “feminism is awesome” and “men should be more like women”.

        • JackbyDev
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          711 months ago

          How do you define feminism because I wouldn’t call feminists “pathetic friend zone white knight ‘women can do no wrong’” types.

      • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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        311 months ago

        Please go back to Reddit. Seems like a much better place for misandrists. We’re trying to build a healthy community here

      • @Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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        3511 months ago

        Why is it okay for twoX to be devoted to women’s issues and actively discourage comparing them to men’s issues, but men can’t have an analogous space?

        Fwiw, if your twoX was different from previous similarly-named communities then I am sorry it closed.

        • Five
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          11 months ago

          I think you misunderstood me. I do think men should have an analogous space. I support !mensliberation@lemmy.ca 100%.

          If you didn’t misunderstand me, men don’t need a space specifically for comparing their issues negatively against women’s issues. That space is everywhere and anywhere, as evidenced by this discussion occurring in !asklemmy@lemmy.world and collecting overwhelmingly positive upvotes.

          • @Clent@lemmy.world
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            2311 months ago

            Your comments here are an example of double standard.

            You are asking for men issues to stay in groups specific to that issue. Anyone who did the same for questions about women would be called a misogynist.

            • Five
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              711 months ago

              Wow, you’re really reaching there. I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems. There’s a group of people who aren’t doing that, and if you don’t want to be called a misogynist, follow the example of that group.

              • Makhno
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                1511 months ago

                I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems.

                And yet you’re the exact type of person to blame men for women’s issues lol

                Your mental gymnastics are funny

              • Lightor
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                11 months ago

                Nah, this is textbook double standards.

                You are part of the problem that is stopping true equality. If men have everywhere to work through issues so you need a special place to do it, how does that end. You forever stay locked in that safe space because men own the public forum? Or do you try to fight for your spot in the public forum, attacking the only place you allowed men to work through issues? Or do you want a place in the public forum and your own space?

                So by your own logic women have their own communities and the general forum is for men, because of this post. So should women be told not to discuss their issues in general forums like Ask Lemmy and stick to their own communities? I mean these are for men right? Seems messed up to me.

                Why not just let everyone have a seat at every table? Be truly open and equal, instead of men deciding what women can have and women deciding what men can have. It’s not a hard concept.

                It’s people like you that make the divide bigger every time you fight for “equality”.

              • @lennybird@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                The incels are out in force.

                Ask them if they’re also supportive of White Pride and the KKK. Or if they’d endorse a “White Lives Matter” movement.

                • If they aren’t, then it reveals their cognitive dissonance.
                • If they are, then while they may be consistent, it also reveals they’re bigots and exposes the fallacious thinking.

                Maybe then the cognitive dissonance will be obvious.

  • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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    511 months ago

    Dress code at work. I work in investment banking. On a hot summer day I have to wear smart shoes, black socks, long trousers, long sleeved shirt. Women can wear whatever. It’s fucking horrible

    • @ezmac@lemmy.world
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      211 months ago

      Go get the traveler suit from suit supply and some lightweight wool /cotton shirts, NOT the “performance” ones made of plastic. I live in the Deep South and I’m a consultant. This is so much better in the hot summer.

      • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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        111 months ago

        It does not address the problem at all. Attire requirements in big office settings are typically anti-men.

        • @ezmac@lemmy.world
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          Yea, of course changing the materials of your clothes doesn’t change society as a whole. My point is that I work in an industry with a similar issue and have found a way to be comfortable, using fabrics and construction styles that breathe properly and are built to be cooler, mimicking some of the lightweight stuff that the women wear.

          It IS helpful and this isn’t an anti-men thread, it’s an asklemmy about dealing with double standards. To be honest investment bankers work such long hours I’m surprised OP sees the daylight/unairconditioned spaces at any frequency to be able to complain about this

    • MrsDoyle
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      111 months ago

      It wasn’t always this way. When I first started working in the early 70s, women weren’t allowed to wear trousers at work. Or have bare legs, even in summer. Women called bullshit, and the rule was relaxed in most places to allow us to wear trouser suits. But as late as the mid-80s I was chastised for wearing trousers at work. I had to point out that the then prime minister, a woman, wore trousers at work!

      If you want the dress code to change, then lobby for it to change. I honestly feel sorry for men locked into their own notions of what they’re “allowed” to wear. I remember a friend whining enviously about how breezy my summer skirt looked. I suggested he wear a skirt himself. “I can’t! People would think I’m gay.” Sigh.

      Also - men used to make an effort! https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5ec9401b929e439dacc2a56a/master/w_1280%2Cc_limit/Piepenbring-Codpiece02.jpg https://www.thecultureconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/404448.jpg

      • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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        211 months ago

        As someone born in 1980 in Poland I was oblivious to women struggles with attire in the not so distant past. Thank you for sharing your perspective. And I love your sense of humor, those baroque outfits are hilarious

  • @corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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    5811 months ago

    ITT about male victims of sexism-based double-standard, we see

    • stories of female victims
    • downvoting stories of male victims
    • the top-voted post about how men can’t speak up for fear of being shouted down

    Wow, Lemmy. Be better than Reddit.

    • Makhno
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      511 months ago

      This thread and ones like it just prove the point

    • Ephera
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      2111 months ago

      That is exactly why I’m downvoting many of the comments here. Not personal stories, but all the “men have it so much worse” comments, which are ultimately just toxic against women.

      Because holy fuck, that was exactly Reddit, and I do not want this place to end up the same. We already have a massive imbalance between the genders and if we men start discrediting women, they’re most fucking definitely not going to show up here.

      I do want men to be able to speak about abuse stories. That is where our patriarchical society kills men, in that it does not allow us to show weakness. But it cannot fucking devolve into a us vs. them discussion, which this whole question is locked and loaded towards. That is not helpful to anyone.

  • @Meltrax@lemmy.world
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    3611 months ago

    If you’re a dude and your older female boss forces you to have sex with her under threat of losing your job, everyone just says “that’s awesome what’s the problem?”.

    • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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      4711 months ago

      I had a professor do this to me. Was an adult going to night school, in my last year. She was about ten years older than me and we hit it off in a way I assumed was a professional student/teacher relationship. Had this with other professors as well.

      She told me to meet her at a hotel once, thought she was joking and when I didn’t show was furious. Told her it just seemed odd, and she told me she is getting another one this weekend and not to worry about it, but if I didn’t show there would be consequences.

      Through a lot of double speak she let me know if it didn’t happen, there would be no graduation for me. Not knowing what to do, bought a pack of condoms and showed up to the hotel. “No, we aren’t using those”. And that was several of my weekends until graduation. There was zero possibility of saying no, and no one to complain to. I can tell the story online and that’s about it.

        • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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          111 months ago

          Yes, I bitched on the internet. It was something that happened almost ten years ago, but it’s not like the school would have ever done anything. Let’s be honest about how this stuff plays out.

          • @timestatic@feddit.org
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            111 months ago

            I’d have went to the police if the school didn’t do shit or threaten with lawyers. I’d escalate all my options since this shit is not going down with me

  • So one thing I noticed is that women betraying their partner has become extremely normalized

    • Every “ethical non monogamous” relationship I’ve seen IRL is just a woman pressuring their long term monogamous partner into a situation where she has multiple partners and she’s struggling
    • “Monkey Branching”, where a woman starts dropping hints at one guy while still seeing another in hopes of making a seamless transition, is pretty accepted. Emotional affairs are only a thing for men apparently
    • While it’s always been acceptable to leave a guy if he can’t “provide” for you, it’s really fucking stupid in the context of modern feminism
    • Women who use OLD are often encouraged to have a “roster” of men, who they form a well beyond casual connection to.
    • There’s a large number of 30+ year old women breaking up with their long term partners to “find themselves”. I put that in quotations because this usually just involves a ton of casual sex. It’s basically the modern day equivalent of a guy leaving his wife for the secretary
    • There are a million different love triangles on TV. They are almost all two guys and a woman who is disrespectful of both. The guys get mad at each other and the women’s behavior is not portrayed as toxic.
    • Like 80 percent of holiday movies involve a woman leaving her fiance for a man she just met. This is always seen as romantic, instead of psychotic.

    In addition to all that, women are extremely reluctant to criticize other women. This stands even when another woman is behaving in an almost objectively toxic way. I moved post covid. The first year I witnessed a fuckton of toxic behavior, but when I tried to point it out I would get dirty glances from women. The second year there I ended up getting close to other women in those conversations who took it upon themselves to tell me in a smaller setting that they actually agreed with me, but they didn’t want to appear unsupportive.

    Whatever the intention there, the mentality enabled a subset of women to be shitty and probably convinced a lot of men that such behavior was something most women were okay with.

    • @TaterTurnipTulip@lemmy.world
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      2611 months ago

      It sounds like you haven’t seen any healthy ethnically non-monogamous relationships. That’s a shame. As a part of one, I’ve seen several others as well. It can work, if it’s done for the right reasons and if all partners respect each other.

    • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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      1411 months ago

      I almost never meet women like this so maybe it depends on your area. I’d love to be in a woman’s roster but they all want monogamous relationships.

      • @hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Trust me, you don’t. These women will often want the full emotional availability of a romantic partner from you, with a fraction of both the emotional and physical availability of a partner from them. They generally want a monogamous relationship, just from an emotionally unavailable guy who is very physically attractive. Above all else, they will not be honest about your “ranking”.

        Almost any woman who is halfway sane and willing to use online dating tends to get into a relationship in like three months tops. There’s also a decent number of women who are either not looking for a relationship, or would like a relationship but think the apps are super toxic.

        However around 10 to 15 percent of the women I meet are very much architects of their own misery. These women are extremely vocal, generally shitty to their potential partners, and can always find more partners due to the nature of OLD. The frustrating part is I haven’t met a single woman who calls out this behavior, and a significant amount that actually reassure these people.

        My GF insists that most women are just trying to be supportive, and that they don’t actually approve of the toxic behavior in question. My conversations with closer female friends backs this up. However in my eyes all this does is enable and normalize said behavior. It is also especially frustrating because I’m 100 percent expected to speak out if another guy does something remotely problematic.

          • Okay so what do you suggest I do. Cut out every single female friend in my life? Convince my single male friends, as a man in a relationship, to boycott online dating apps?

            The only behavior uncommon enough to actually get away from are ethically non monogamous relationships and straight up cheating. That’s 100 percent a red line for me at this point. Everything else is so ubiquitous that I’m basically forced to put up with it if I want to be social.

            • Guy Ingonito
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              211 months ago

              You just have to worry about being happy in the relationship you’re actually in and not project these feelings of disrespectful non-monogamy on to others.

        • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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          611 months ago

          These women will often want the full emotional availability of a romantic partner from you, with a fraction of both the emotional and physical availability of a partner from them.

          That’s a whole separate issue from women having a roster of men.

          Idk about emotional availability. I just want a fuck buddy. If she can’t provide that, she’s gone.

      • @Gypsyhermit123@lemmy.ca
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        211 months ago

        I’m had 2 women tell me they had this and saw one on OLD. Of them the 2 got so fed up of men and their bullshit. Started having activity buddies with benefits. One was my cousin so I knew the back story of her asshole husband. Other was a neighbour of a good friend.

        • Oh this is another thing. I know some women who are perpetually single despite heavy usage of OLD. I used to have a lot of sympathy, but at this point I’ve met many women in relationships via OLD, and the entire process took them six weeks. The second category of women weren’t “higher value” or whatever, they just had more realistic expectations and were less shallow.

    • @paddirn@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      “women are extremely reluctant to criticize other women”

      You should listen to women talk more, they’re extremely enthusiastic to talk shit about each other.

      I actually do agree with some of your points though, but on that point, I’ve rarely seen a woman reluctant to talk trash about another woman when given a chance (maybe more in he said/she said situations is what you’re referring to).

      • I’m 30 years old, and even when I was 15 I wasn’t really friends with the super mean girl gossip types. Throughout my life, I’ve been friends with women who largely identify as feminist and sort of reject those stereotypes.

        The problem is that post #metoo it became normalized to take the whole “support women” thing to such an extreme that it enabled toxic behavior. While there were women who tried to pull the whole “it’s sexist to criticize me for making poor life choices” crap, other women would get super offended for them attempting to use feminism in that way.

        It’s extremely frustrating that the 19 and 20 year old women I knew in college had better moral compasses than the 25 to 40 year old women I know now. That’s really not supposed to be how it works.

    • JackbyDev
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      511 months ago

      Hi, ethical non monogamous person here. My wife did not pressure me into this. The only other couple I know IRL that does this it was also the husband who prompted it.

  • @RBWells@lemmy.world
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    5911 months ago

    Clothes in general, I could borrow my husband’s shirt and nobody would bat an eye but I’d he borrowed mine (he can’t because I’m smaller, but assuming we were the same size-ish) would look strange.

    I don’t think groping is gonna be ignored in any workplace, in any direction.

  • @SeattleRain@lemmy.world
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    4811 months ago

    Being held culpable for the brutality some powerful men wield against women because of the “patriarchy”. But also being at fault when women with power exploit or abuse men.

    • Uriel238 [all pronouns]
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      The problem is dominance hierarchy, which expresses itself as patriarchy most of the time.

      But not always, and places on this earth exist where a matriarchic hierarchy is similarly asserted.

      Obligatorily, no war but class war.

      • @orrk@lemmy.world
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        911 months ago

        I find it hilarious when people get upset about “no war but class war” as if the sexist and racist systems we experience aren’t just symptoms of a heavily stratified society

    • Waldowal
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      9811 months ago

      This is going to be my new way to antagonize conservatives I know:

      ME: Did you know Harris has had 5 kids with 3 different partners?!

      MORON: I don’t doubt it. She’s a whore!

      ME: Oh sorry, I meant Trump.

          • Log in | Sign up
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            511 months ago

            Absolutely not. Satire of Trump supporters and Trump supporters are indistinguishable. The ear bandages, the diaper wearing. The complete and utter nonsense they swallow and spout. Being proud of “grab 'em by the pussy” and openly supporting KKK and walking the streets with actual swastikas. There’s nothing too extreme to be even remotely too absurd to be true from MAGA. So no, unless you’re putting a /s on your fake utterly stupid moronic take Republican opinion, I absolutely can’t tell that you’re ridiculing them instead of just being that stupid.

    • @Azal@pawb.social
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      311 months ago

      Oh no, instead she has step-children so was referred to as a “Childless cat lady” by checks notes the running mate of the opposing party.

      The only place to the conservative crowd for a woman to be in is in a single relationship with her own kids. Though I’m sure they’d have a way to gripe about it too.

  • @paddirn@lemmy.world
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    1411 months ago

    I work in a company that seems to have mostly women in management roles and the area I work in has mostly women in our area as well. The things I’ve heard women say about men though would get any guy shit-canned within a day if he were to say anything like that about women. Women can straight-up say things like, “I hate men” or “Men are such assholes” or “What is wrong with men?” or “Guys are so stupid!” or “My husband is such a fucking idiot” or saying blatantly sexual shit about men that they have crushes on or find attractive. It’s just a joke to them, like whatever. Meanwhile, if a guy were to say anything even remotely approaching to what I’ve heard in our office, they would be gone like nothing, there’s just no tolerance for that.

    And don’t get me wrong, I’m not offended by women saying sexist things like that or talking sexually about guys, I don’t give a shit, I’ve heard worse from other guys. That doesn’t bother me and I’m not looking to get anybody in trouble over it, I just want tolerance from both sides. What bothers me is that men aren’t afforded that same courtesy and aren’t allowed to talk the same way. Women can talk shit at work all they want about men because “Fuck the patriarchy, old white men are ruining everything, etc”, but whooo, if a guy says anything remotely out of line about women, they will be reported like that 🫰.

  • @Sarmyth@lemmy.world
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    1711 months ago

    It’s fairly broadly believed that strong male influences benefit a child greatly, but males are looked at with huge skepticism if they attempt to enter most forms of childcare as a profession.

  • @___@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    I’m kind of prude before I get to know someone. I can recall at least 5 times my friends tried to push a girl from the bar into my cab because they thought it was funny I didn’t want to take them home.

    Just imagine the reverse situation. It’s the same as women calling other women sluts. Sometimes it’s the most vocal men that make the stereotypes worse.