Dude just loves riling himself up into a frenzy, doesn’t he? I guess he was mad that Hasan was going to interview Obama, which never even happened, and now he thinks Hasan is a “genocide supporter” because a random YouTube clip he came across that said “Hasan supports Kamala’s policies”, which he never even watched and was most likely just clipped. Hasan isn’t perfect, but fuck, you think at least him going to the DNC as a journalist would be considered fair from BE. Wild.
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Remember when BE labeled himself a journalist? What happened to that?
Dialectical materialism is me wanting to shit on Hasan for being a sheepdog millionaire living in a mansion vs me wanting to shit on BadEmpanada for being a deranged sexpat gringo holed up in Argentina
The only correct take in this entire thread.
it’s funny that you agree with me but came at me so hard
I don’t fuck off
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Synthesis: they are both fine influencers…
Who?
Imagine an Empanada. Flaky, delicioys, satisfying.
But this one? It’s bad. Ultra takes, bad at research, clout chasing with internet drama.
when has he been bad at research tho
His video on Xinjiang is what a fairly lazy middle schooler could put together in a weekend.
I keep mixing up these supposedly-leftist “influencers” and the slapfights all blend together for me.
Regardless of your stance on them, none of this really matters in the real world. It’s like discussing our favorite Pokémon —mine is Totodile —which would be just as important.
I’m glad to continue not knowing much about them, then.
We live in pokemon. Whatever starter we use, pokemon will be involved. If someone makes money on gyms while helpfully radicalizing more people in the right direction, I see that as a good thing. It’s definitely worked in the opposite direction to make team rocket, and there’s no reason to give up those methods.
I unironically love Empanada drama the guy is so scrappy. Ok so he misses sometimes but and it causes problems but it’s also useful energy when he’s not missing too.
Unless you’re just some dude in the Gobi desert who doesn’t even have internet, there is zero merit to being this absolutist
Hasan seems to be one of the most divisive things on this site lol
He’s just Democracy Now with parasocial characteristics.
Maybe it’s just an artefact of the inherent tribalism in any active movement. I haven’t really made up my mind fully on this, but it does seem more and more true that “in group” fighting over differences is more vitriolic than out group?
In-group fighting can seem more intense because mutual understanding is assumed, vs outgroup. Marxists can laugh at liberals but tend to take other Marxists seriously enough to get upset, as an example
Its not in group out group fighting its indovidualism. Individuals thinking they know the way and need to attack others for not thinking that way, instead of being systematic about pushing everybody forward.
defending treatbrained streamers as your vanguard of systematic “pushing everybody forward” is actually an extremely capitalist-realist analysis. the way forwards is not twitch streamers, stop trying to make capitalist entertainment products into your friends and also the revolution.
We live in capitalism. Whatever method we use, capitalism will be involved. If someone makes money on Twitch while helpfully radicalizing more people in the right direction, I see that as a good thing. It’s definitely worked in the opposite direction to make reactionaries, and there’s no reason to give up those methods.
It’s like how electoralism won’t save us but by running and being crushed Bernie helped radicalized a lot of people. He definitely did more good doing that and introducing socialist ideas, making more future anarchists and socialists than basically every socialist I know of, than every every podcaster or reading circle I’ve seen since.
If someone makes money on Twitch while helpfully radicalizing more people in the right direction, I see that as a good thing.
I mean, the 2024 election year is very dead. You had at least Bernie Sanders sheep dogging people into the Democratic Party in 2016 and 2020. Now, there’s not even a need for a sheep dog. You’re a Trump supporter if you bring up anything. Like, I don’t really think a lot of people are radicalizing as stated. Something isn’t working as believed.
Hasan is a pipeline!
A pipeline to where?
Voting Democrat while holding one’s nose instead of doing it happily
It’s not great, especially materially, but narrative-wise things look better than when I was a kid in the 90’s: the USSR had fallen, and everyone agreed communism had failed. You couldn’t even say the word “socialist” let alone “communist” when I was younger, let alone anyone admit they were one. I think there’s just been a liberal backlash to these changes as they try to reconstitute control and power of the narrative, but there’s been progress.
The main problem as I see it is just we’re not organizing fast enough for the problems capitalism are causing, like climate change, and also foreign policy is still dog shit among most progressives. Also, I worry that this revolutionary atmosphere happened in the 60’s too and was dismantled by the police state, so I’m hoping we learned some lessons from that time somehow.
The main problem as I see it is just we’re not organizing fast enough for the problems capitalism are causing
Wonder if that has anything to do with kids sitting inside watching a guy be “radical” on their behalf and feeling like they’ve done something?
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This ain’t it
ummm actually skibbidi toilet is the communist manifesto of our time and here in this twenty part thesis i will outline why…
Dude I don’t even watch Hasan. I’ve learned more about him here on hexbear than I have anywhere else lol. But the point is that I now see more kids complain about modern imperialism and talk about other concepts I would’ve never imagined could’ve pierced the liberal media bubble who mention him than at any other time in life (since maybe peak Chapo?). You’ve got to adapt to the times and environment we have, and start somewhere.
Or you could let that whole audience get scooped up by Tim Pool, Destiny, Joe Rogan, Vaush, don’t know who else is popular on the streaming circuit but you get my point. Because, believe it or not, consumed media does make a HUGE difference. It’s half the reason this current fight is so damn hard right right now, because of manufactured consent in the media.
Even Hasan would agree with this analysis lol.
That being said, he did say in a recent stream that “you aren’t going to vote the revolution in” so I’d say he’s more then a “treatbrained streamer”.
You’re the one defending the treat brain streamer lol
again, stop lying. You are a LIAR. Stop LYING. Bad faith LIAR
It is very very clear you are defending the aussie expat here.
nope, never have and never will. you will continue to LIE about it though
Im not talking about streamers i mean on the left in general. Before there was twitter there were 400 groups writing position papers on each others position papers and getting nothing done
before twitter there was a world communist movement and revolution in over 50 countries
Yea good thing the first world had all those successful communist revolutions that definitely werent impacted by individualism to the highest degree. I dont give a fuck about any of these internet people so i dont know why ur so aggressive.
I’m aggressive because it’s frustrating having to deal with 500 eternal waves of radlib children who repeat the same dumb lib shit over and over to defend what are essentially celebrities.
Hasan is generally extremely treat-brained, and he isn’t as harsh on liberalism or as supportive of AES as us. The difference in opinion is whether he serves the purpose of radicalizing liberals, or preventing further radicalization.
I’m of the opinion that he generally works more for radicalization than against it.
IDGAF about Hasanpeople can’t criticize their parasocial friends
You’re the one in here going to bat for an aussie settler asshole who only ever punches left.
literally never happened, never have said a single good thing about BE in my life
Are you unable to read or just straight up lying?
You seem pretty invested in defending him here.
This dunk was all about him being a hypocrit and your whole screed in this thread is some weellll ackshually shit.
Don’t message me again.
You seem pretty invested in defending him here.
Honestly I’ve seen you commenting on this topic way more.
Don’t message me again.
That’s now how disengagement works.
Okay disengage
hypocrites can still have a correct point
we can all agree hes cute and that obviously makes up for his flaws, right :thonk:
not really into men but… honestly he’s not bad. You got a point there
I like Hasan for being a pipeline and I like bademp for being a poster.
I dislike both of them but I fucking HATE bad empanada for acting like the most smartest leftest boy in the room all the time while being nothing more than a streamer just like Hasan. At least Hasan is honest about what he is.
I don’t watch either but I think this is the distinction that I see as well, with the addition that I only ever really hear about BE when he’s trying to start some clout-chasing fight with somebody else. I guess maybe that’s because Hasan doesn’t need to chase clout but it’s definitely the most lame thing about BE.
Hasan chases clout by getting AOC interviews
He’s just on another higher tier of grift than BE could hope for
Hasan is just following in the footsteps of AOC where he spends some time critiquing Democratic policies but then spends every waking moment trying to get cozy with the Democratic party.
Hasan can’t have it both ways where he’s an “outsider” that gets kicked out of the Convention for saying some stuff on stream that made the DNC or Donors angry, but then also had spent all that time trying to get into the Convention in the first place so he could stream from the Convention and attract as many Democratic party hogs who wanted to watch the convention via Twitch.
You’re either outside the convention, demonstrating against it and explicitly against a genocide, or you’re just trying to keep an audience just happy enough by saying that a genocide is bad, while you try and triangulate enough in order to get into the Convention and “network”
It can’t be both, and unfortunately BadEmpenada is correct for once about something.
It’s also the case that it’s one internet personality trying to start shit with a more popular internet personality in order to get clout, but the point still stands.
Hasan is just following in the footsteps of AOC
Deeply unserious lol
Like someone on here comparing PSL to trots.
reads a multi paragraph post
Calls it deeply unserious but does not respond with any detail
I’m the unserious one?
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I’m sorry you feel that I would reply in bad faith. I don’t understand why I would come across that way and frankly it’s hurtful that you think that.
Respectfully disagree with the mods decision to delete this. Equating Hasan with AOC is an ignorant statement to make due to evidence of him being far more radical than her. Thus any attempt for me to reply to their argument in good faith, I feel, is tainted from the get-go.
#1 donor to the amazon labor union btw
bill gates is the #1 donor to alleviating Malaria and has likely saved millions of lives
are we going to adopt the Bill Gates political platform now?
surely you’re not equivocating medical colonialism and giving money to support a worker’s union that your “boss” opposes. that would be a genuinely deranged equivocation.
but you’re clearly on a real tear here and in need of some grass touching, so i’ll be blocking you if you feel the need to continue to pop off at me. you are clearly scrolling this thread for hours looking for people to try to argue with and it’s seriously neither healthy nor productive.
Equating Hasan with AOC is an ignorant statement
Your dislike of this statement does not make it ignorant
PSL does have a Trot genealogy, though is ML. Socialist Workers Party -> Workers World Party -> PSL. SWP was Trot. WWP were an OG tankie split and the origin of Marcyism, literally led by Marcy. They adopted more ML stances but didn’t shed all Trotskyist thought. So many people handing out little papers and making unrealistic proclamations about what organized labor would do in the imperisl core. Then PSL split off of that over internal organizational disputes. PSL seems to have been on the right side of that and is obviously now even cooler and more ML, and explicitly so.
But I do think see echoes of its Trotskyist parentage from time to time. For example, putting so much energy into electoral vanguardism, aping Bolshevik structures, and coming across as detached from the community when it comes to local work. To me, one of the more salient failures of Trots is in how they tend to aesthetically go through the motions of an idealized canon of What Trotsky Said To Do, which is often just what Lenin et al developed for their conditions, and generally fail to do the science of revolution. Much time spent self-congratulating, picking bad fights with others while repeating boilerplate lines, and then launching into the Next Big Thing that is Very Communist because leadership made A Great Speech. This does not describe PSL, but I do think you can see legacy bits of that kind of thinking pop up on occasion.
Hasan is just following in the footsteps of AOC where he spends some time critiquing Democratic policies but then spends every waking moment trying to get cozy with the Democratic party.
AOC supports Kamala for president, Hasan does not. Before Kamala’s speech, Hasan said “I’ll wait and see” with respect to whether he supports Kamala, but now, he is very vocal about the fact that he does not support Kamala for president.
Or maybe you meant Hasan is following in AOC’s footsteps in some other way?
Before Kamala’s speech, Hasan said “I’ll wait and see” with respect to whether he supports Kamala, but now, he is very vocal about the fact that he does not support Kamala for president.
to be fair, wait and see is a deeply unserious position on Kamala. I think it is fair to say that is triangulation. There was plenty of information on Kamala’s stances.
Or maybe you meant Hasan is following in AOC’s footsteps in some other way?
As I said, he spends some time critiquing Democratic policies but is also still trying to stay acceptable to the Democratic party overall, since that’s who his audience is. Eventually he will get co-opted just like AOC did.
Hasan can’t have it both ways where he’s an “outsider” that gets kicked out of the Convention for saying some stuff on stream that made the DNC or Donors angry, but then also had spent all that time trying to get into the Convention in the first place so he could stream from the Convention and attract as many Democratic party hogs who wanted to watch the convention via Twitch.
What is wrong with advocating for Palestinian emancipation with other protestors outside the DNC, inside the DNC, and with the Uncommitted movement outside the DNC, and then getting kicked out for it?
The statement is pretty vague, do you have a specific example of something Hasan did or said at or outside of the DNC that you take issue with?
i take issue with him setting up interviews with AOC and hanging out with the Pod Jons and hugging them and doing networking
I don’t take issue with him because he’s constantly attacking the dems, raising money for Palestine, was a guest on the Deprogram, and straight up said in a recent stream that “the revolution won’t be voted in”.
you don’t take issue with him because he’s hot and your “friend”
everything else is ad hoc
What? lol
I’m not even a rabid follower of his stuff and like I said in the OP, dude’s not perfect, but he isn’t nearly as bad as people talk about.
What is wrong with advocating for Palestinian emancipation with other protestors outside the DNC, inside the DNC, and with the Uncommitted movement outside the DNC, and then getting kicked out for it?
I didn’t say that was wrong. You are deliberately twisting what I said.
What I was trying to highlight is that you can’t hold that position, but then also try and be friendly with the Democratic Party enough that they give you a press pass (he claims they gave it to him by accident?!?). Like you have to acknowledge that can have a chilling effect on speech. Giving him access, there’s a strong temptation to self-censor in order to not upset the Convention organizers. They eventually they kicked him out over the slightest of criticism anyway.
So in the end, what serves the cause more? Trying to be on “good behavior” so you don’t get kicked out (and get kicked out anyway)? Or being on the outside and demonstrating and not self censoring?
don’t bother their analysis is purely vibes based and completely uninformed. theres a huge difference between AOC stanning for kid killer kamala and Hasan literally trying to infiltrate the DNC to provide a single pro-palestinian voice on the inside, and getting kicked out for interviewing the excluded protestors and uncommmitted movement. literally just watch a single stream or video of his, he is CONSTANTLY criticizing democrats, more often than republicans. its not just some kind of ‘’‘triangulation’‘’ thing, hasan is literally doing what a journalist is supposed to do in this situation, bringing the pro palestine anti genocide message to people who would otherwise not have heard it. idk what idiot footfaults got this opinion from because it sure as shit didn’t come from actually watching hasan.
what part of infiltrating the DNC to spread pro-palestine arguments requires him hugging the pod jons and giving AOC a platform to spew her bullshit
he explicitly says all the time that he is overly nice to people on camera even when he disagrees with them so that he can hopefully deprogram their followers. its like you don’t understand the concept of media or propaganda, or are being intentionally obtuse.
the opposite is happening, his followers are being programmed to being more complacent and OK with podjons and DNC “progressives”
also, i think there’s a fundamental disconnect from Hasan and his fans who see the DNC libs as annoying and misinformed but fundamentally OK people.
I, and other hardline communists, see the US as a fourth reich and the DNC as little Nazi genocidal fucks. When I see someone who is supposed to be “on my side” cozying up with them and hugging them, I don’t think “wow so glad he is de-radicalizing those fascists” I think “what the fuck is this rich shithead doing? Is he a traitor to our cause like all the other people who schmooze up to the nazis have been historically”
lmao bro he’s just a streamer. At least, unlike badempanada he doesn’t spend half his time being insufferable and punching left and hating on every still standing socialist government while being an expat living a cushy life in south America by pandering to self hating western anti-communists that want to also act like the smartest most ultra left children online.
fuck them both but fuck BadEmpanada more for larping like the most principled leftist ever while basically just being a whiny little twerp on the internet all the time.
lmao bro he’s just a streamer.
tell that to his defenders here, because half the comments are about how he is the vanguard of the revolution and doing heckin praxis
You want your cake and eat it too. Is Hassan a serious political subject? Then he is open for criticism for being a radlib DNC bootlicker. Is he just a silly streamer? Then why are people here making these dumbass arguments about how he is working towards communism with twitch characteristics?
half the comments are about how he is the vanguard of the revolution
what vanguard? there’s no vanguard in the anglosphere. Communism has no foothold in America. 0.000% of Communism has been built here
tell that to the users in here talking about how much epic praxis he’s doing (including you, who say he’s a “pipeline”). If he’s a “pipeline” then where that pipeline is dumping people out to is open to criticism. I don’t see the point of moving people from one radlib camp to another, it’s just celebrity parasocial shit combined with all the identitarian flavors of ideology to feel special. It’s all radlib shit and it’s actually damaging to any forming left because you have a bunch of would-be leftists in here making zionist-adjacent arguments filled with credulity like “He was on the fence about Kamala”.
Anybody who is “on the fence about Kamala” isn’t a Marxist or is lying. Anybody in here defending that shit is so attached to his dick they can’t think straight and are shrinking into a DNC progressive corncob
he radicalized my brother, so I’m just speaking from experience. Let he (on the splinter site from their subreddit) who has never listened to Chapo Trap House throw the first stone
Seek grass
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I don’t give a fuck about either of these people. It is you motherfuckers that have an unhealthy parasocial relationship with a dipshit settler streamer.
my “unhealthy relationship” is i want them to go away and for you people to shut the fuck up about them and stop posting drama about them here and stop embarrassing yourself making arguments on their behalf
I want them both to go away. You defending the one is why you are so fucking cringe. I am not defending Hasan I literally never watch him, I am begging you people to stop defending the shit stirring clout chasing settler expat. Fuck off.
Before Kamala’s speech, Hasan said “I’ll wait and see” with respect to whether he supports Kamala
Oh so he was on the fence about genocide and if she said enough nice words he would support the genocidal party? This is why people on this site hate Hassan and his defenders, it makes you say dumb ass shit like this. He cozies up to the DNC, and you cozy up to him, and by association you are now making quasi-pro-genocidal arguments. Like your parasocial attachment has made you 35% more zionist.
He was waiting to see specifically whether or not she’d change policies on genocide
then he’s stupid, and he should know better, because she was never going to do that. What she might have done, if she wanted to appeal to youth voters, is give lip service to holding Israel accountable, like Obama and Reagan other presidents have done in the past. And if she did that he would be giving her kudos and promoting her.
This level of incredulity and naivety is frustrating to deal with. You and I and Hassan should all know Democrats are never ever going to fucking stop supporting Israel. If Hassan doesn’t know that, he’s a stupid radlib. If he does, he’s a networking grifter. There’s no good world where someone smart and marxist holds out hope Kamala will become anti-imperialist randomly.
I suppose it depends on whether he had any real expectation that she would be anything other than a supporter of Zionism to the hilt. If he thought she was anything else, he was foolish. But if he just wanted to set up his lib followers for radicalizing disappointment, that is not a bad strategy for a humble Twitch streamer lol. It’s the same basic steps that netted us a bunch of new commies when Bernie (a Zionist socdem!) was ratfucked.
But if he just wanted to set up his lib followers for radicalizing disappointment, that is not a bad strategy for a humble Twitch streamer lol.
Why are you attributing this 5d chess to him? If Kamala had been tactical and instead offered lip service to ‘hold israel accountable’ or some shit he’s pitched a slowball to the DNC to hit it out of the park. They just didn’t even swing, because they don’t care about youth voters whatsoever. Hasan was trying to give the DNC the path out, telling them exactly how to sheepdog his viewers back in, and they scorned him - but if they had instead accepted his offer and given lipservice to the anti-zionists then they would have eaten it up
Why are you attributing this 5d chess to him?
I don’t think it’s 5D chess to go, “let the libs prove to my audience that they will do the bad things” instead of “I will tell my audience the libs will do bad things”. Do you think this is a complex strategy?
If you re-read my comment, you will also find that I offered two scenarios and did not attribute anything to him.
If Kamala had been tactical and instead offered lip service to ‘hold israel accountable’ or some shit he’s pitched a slowball to the DNC to hit it out of the park.
Either way he has pitched himself content to criticize. And there is no difference in that regardless of whether he would say “wait and see” vs. “they won’t oppose the genocide”.
They just didn’t even swing, because they don’t care about youth voters whatsoever. Hasan was trying to give the DNC the path out, telling them exactly how to sheepdog his viewers back in, and they scorned him - but if they had instead accepted his offer and given lipservice to the anti-zionists then they would have eaten it up
Their version of lip service is what they got. Feigned regret about death “on both sides” and then a clearly Zionist position. They said it was yime to end the “war”. It sounds like you’re imagining they bring out a Palestinian comprador to say “ceasefire” and condemn Hamas, but I don’t think that would have the result you imagine.
What she might have done, if she wanted to appeal to youth voters, is give lip service to holding Israel accountable, like Obama and Reagan other presidents have done in the past.
Reagan and Obama held Israel on a tighter leash, which would not have been an unreasonable expectation at all of Kamala. Nobody expected her to put on a Hamas headband and invade Tel Aviv, but compared to the uniquely fanatical zionist Biden it would not have surprised me to see Kamala do the bare minimum and actually take action to stop Israel’s current onslaught.
it would not have surprised me to see Kamala do the bare minimum and actually take action to stop Israel’s current onslaught.
This is what Hasan was hoping for too, so he could endorse her. She didn’t give it to him
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I want to +1 this. My expectation was that Kamala would try and triangulate on Gaza by saddling Biden with all the bad decisions, make some noise about Gaza and put Israel on a tighter leash. Do just enough to put one over on the uncommitted movement by making some symbolic gestures and reap the rewards.
But instead, no, she goes with maximalist support for Israel and the current policy.
I think that there have been plenty of times before the Convention where it was made very clear that she’s not going to change direction.
I felt this way, and for me personally it was the “I’m speaking” moment where it became clear to me. That was at least a couple weeks before the Convention.
We won’t know what he was going to do with an interview with Obama now, unfortunately, but it would have been very telling.
I have a degree of respect for journalists who curry favour to gain access in order to really press issues and do the actual job of (adversarial) journalism. There’s a fine line to walk if you want to do this because it’s extremely easy to get blacklisted, especially these days.
I think one good example of being behind enemy lines like this for the sake of journalism is Abby Martin going to Israel to interview average Israelis on the streets to get them to indict themselves via vox pop. It would be uncharitable to denounce Martin for going to Israel and speaking with Israelis given what she went there for and what she achieved.
Whether Hasan had intended a similar angle w/interviewing Obama or any other big figure in the Democratic Crime Syndicate idk but I think there’s an argument to be made that simply rubbing shoulders with them does not necessarily mean that you are a Compradorpoints-esque figure.
The other side of the argument is that he was allowing himself to be coopted and he was betraying his principles for cash and clout. This is where a conflict emerges between the more liberal-oriented model of the “objective” or politically-neutral journalist and the person who has an overtly political platform (but I don’t really buy into that paradigm personally) however what Hasan was doing was the inverse; rather than starting from the place of journalistic inquiry and becoming politically partisan, he started from the place of political partisanship and was intending to pursue a journalistic endeavour. I think this makes the issue so much more complex because we are going to view his actions as politics-first, even if he is attempting to do something journalism-first, but to stand on ground for your political beliefs only to rescind them to start pursuing journalistic endeavours does give a strong impression of reneging on your politics.
For me I absolutely cannot be fucked trawling through hours of streams in the lead up and the aftermath to glean some insight into what he had planned to do because he just isn’t that important to me. So that leaves me feeling cautious about Hasan until I get some good info shedding light on this from a trustworthy source but I personally don’t think that this alone is sufficient for me to consider him persona non grata as it stands.
Good post, thanks for sharing
Kill the streamer in your head
Locking this post due to continued, excessive hostility.
All streamers are deeply unserious people
Being a streamer is inherently obnoxious. Being a youtuber is also inherently obnoxious.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: He’s the Keemstar of leftist twitch/twitter/youtube. He basically latches onto whatever popular topic is being discussed and posts hot takes (which are sometimes good tbf) that are sure to get him views/clicks.
I once visited a bank, I’m now a capitalist.
We need to stop purity testing and seeing if people are “good” and start seeing if people are useful instead. Hasan might be a bit cuddled up with libs(bad) and is a millionaire(owns a house) but he provides a useful service and pipeline for the left, making him useful. Norman Finkelstein is a transphobe(bad), but his analysis is invaluable and is tremendously useful to the left. I don’t care if a person is good or moral. I care if they help the left. BE occasionally produces valuable content and I applaud him for that, but this is nonsensical, idealist, individualist drivel from him.
