And Linux isn’t minimal effort. It’s an operating system that demands more of you than does the commercial offerings from Microsoft and Apple. Thus, it serves as a dojo for understanding computers better. With a sensei who keeps demanding you figure problems out on your own in order to learn and level up.

That’s why I’d love to see more developers take another look at Linux. Such that they may develop better proficiency in the basic katas of the internet. Such that they aren’t scared to connect a computer to the internet without the cover of a cloud.

Related: Omakub

  • @[email protected]
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    1010 months ago

    Thank you! I’m a staunch believer that most of you don’t think about how much prior knowledge you need just to be able to use Linux, let alone not break things.

    • @[email protected]
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      1610 months ago

      When we started, none of us had any prior knowledge and quite frankly, if it broke all the time none of us would have stuck with it. It’s the same for people when they started with Windows or Mac OS

    • @[email protected]
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      1410 months ago

      At the same time I think most people don’t think about how much prior knowledge you need to just be able to use Windows or Mac. And for someone without ANY prior knowledge all of them are the same.

      Story time, my MiL is a zero when it gets to computer literacy, to the point that every week I had to solve something for her. Eventually I gave her a laptop with Linux in it to make it easier for me to do support, and to my surprise she had lots of problems the first months when setting things up and until learning the ropes, but afterwards there were almost no problems.

      The thing is that people have a lot of Windows knowledge, so when they try Linux they expect it to be Windows and get frustrated when it’s not.

  • Twitches
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    5610 months ago

    Lol IT person here, so many developers barely know how to turn there machine on

    • @[email protected]
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      5310 months ago

      As a developer, I have met developers that don’t understand file systems. They could write code and not find it. Like wtf?

      • dinckel
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        2210 months ago

        I know more than a handful of developers who religiously refuse to learn version control systems, and barely know how to operate a computer in general. It’s more of a mindset issue

    • edric
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      1310 months ago

      Not directed at you specifically, but it’s the same with IT and dev people but with security/privacy.

  • @[email protected]
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    110 months ago

    On desktop, Linux isn’t the best choice.

    People use Linux where it’s the best, servers!

  • @[email protected]
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    10 months ago
    • Doesn’t have millions to market like the alternatives.
    • More technical requirement (historically anyways)
    • Much less likely to be the default on hardware (which is what most ppl stick to)
    • blouse
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      310 months ago

      This is the answer! Most people will not ever install a new operating system.

    • @[email protected]
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      1110 months ago

      I just installed Manjaro over my windows 10 drive and the effort so far has been way easier than I thought.

      KDE Plasma reminds me a lot of WIn 10, and nearly everything I did on my windows system works under Linux without hassle. The only issue I had were certain technical things like overlooking my GPU and setting up my LED lights.

      • @[email protected]
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        10 months ago

        Yeah I didn’t find Linux install any harder than installing windows from scratch.

        Edit: the only thing was multiple choices for home filesystem, which made me do some research on why I would want ext3 or 4 of xfs, or btrfs.

      • @[email protected]
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        1410 months ago

        Those are the usual problems in Linux, they can be summed up by “Third party companies don’t support Linux”, and they are especially annoying because with time you learn that there’s no reason that thing shouldn’t work, other than because the company either purposefully figures out if you’re running Linux and crashes the program (e g. DRM, anti-cheat, etc) or because they created their own closed proprietary protocol and refuse to share the public API for it so it needs to be reverse engineered.

      • @[email protected]
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        410 months ago

        It is Linux, but the machines are low apec and depend on cloud based google stuff for storage etc. Not quite the same as Desktop or powerful laptop

  • @[email protected]
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    10 months ago

    I have never bought the idea that free/libre SW in general is just not as easy, including GNU+Linux. I’ll leave out open source initially, and come back to it later, not because it doesn’t experience the same, but because corporate wide it doesn’t suffer the same fate. And linux itself is one of the most widely used kernel if not the most, it happens similarly to openssl, and so many other open source components. So I see no issue with linux adoption, I can’t think of any kernel more adopted than linux…

    To me what has really affected free/libre SW is the monopolistic abuse of the corporations, plus their ambitions, and how in Today’s world, they have created the illusion that being a technologist is the same as being a technology consumer, which gets into the hearts of governments and education systems (more hurting, public education systems). Let me try some practical examples:

    • Educations systems translate the need to educate students about technology into making them familiar with MS different SW, like the windows OS, MS outlook, MS office, MS project, MS visio. Even on the higher levels of education, colleges and universities prefer to use matlab over octave for example, even for just matrix operations scripting. Office covers spread sheets BTW, so people specialized on accounting know excel, but no other spread sheet.
    • On public education systems, where one would be inclined to think it might get more interest on developing the expertise to not depend on proprietary SW only, it’s where corporate reach deeper offering “cheap” educational licences.
    • From the prior two keep in mind that educational licenses from proprietary SW usually means future professional and people depending on proprietary SW in general. They are meant not to educate, but rather generate the future dependent population.
    • Governments, whether local or nation wide, instead of adhering to open standards, for any kind of form submission, and even further to adhere to use of free and open source SW, to build the technical and competency expertise required to have a criteria about different technologies, about SW, infrastructure, DBs, and so, they prefer to require citizens to use non free or open source SW to create required forms, and prefer to pay for SW solutions which totally lock in the entire solution, usually coming from big corps, or other companies actually making use of SW and technologies coming from big corps.
    • In their effort to discredit free/libre SW, the idea that the fundamental principles behind free/libre SW hurt the SW industry, or that are irrelevant to Today’s world or even worse than that, there were claims that the GPLed kernel was a great threat and GPLed SW a cancer. Now that open source usage has totally overcome free/libre SW, there are no such claims, but the damage is done. There’s nothing wrong with people wanting some compensation from corps, when developing SW, and thus not using free/libre licenses like GPL-3+ or AGPL, but in the end that eventually might hurt the users rights protected by such licenses, which such corps don’t really care that much (their profit has higher priority for sure), and experience shows that just because SW is licensed open source doesn’t guarantee any compensation for the development whatsoever, so if volunteering SW, doing so as open source is not even close to get every developer a decent income out of their contributions. Well, except for the big corps backed SW, linux included, but that’s not the majority of open source SW.
    • The discredit of free/libre SW, which allowed the eventual creation of open source, is such that the banning of individuals ends up being an attack to the organizations behind it and even their principles and motivation.
    • Moving away from the free/libre SW observations, even now with open source, from the big corps, which barely compensate the open source developers, complain about the open source supply chain, campaigning against not well maintained SW and such, there’s the famous image of a complex and heavy structure depending on a weak and deficient leg. Whatever truth around that figure, it of course hides the overall picture of the developer of such leg not ever being compensated (not to mention paid) for his library or SW component, and perhaps that’s one of the reasons the project got even abandoned, but now it’s easy to blame such situation when talking about FOSS in general.

    Paid SW might be more intuitive to use at times, I can understand that. There are paid developers making the UIs more intuitive and attractive, in the end it needs to be bought or massively consumed to get earning through its use. But if you look deeper, perhaps it’s not just that free/libre or open alternatives are non intuitive at all, perhaps people gets used to that UI when attending basic or high school, or college/university. Perhaps even when exposed to mobile devices even when they can barely walk. Everything else, different in nature, will look alien to the future “technologists”…

    On a sad (lacking hope) note, I don’t think there’s any indicator of things changing. My only hope is changes in educational systems, which are nowhere happening, and not the parents, as mentioned they are already convinced that using google, ms, apple, oracle or whatever prepare their kids for the future and will make them the technologists of the future.

    On a funny note, I would answer the motivating question with: Linux is so good that it’s actually most probably the most used kernel world wide, :)

      • @[email protected]
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        810 months ago

        If talking about non proprietary kernels’ drivers, such as linux, then again, profit is what regulates it. No wonder why now nvidia finally cares about linux, being the most used kernels behind the cloud, behind servers of whatever. Meaning, it’s not profitable not to support linux now a days for Nvidia.

        The other fundamental factor is lock-in, which is abused by some big corps, such as MS.

        But the profit idea es even wrong, but it’s what we have been educated with. For an OEM, providing FOSS drivers or FOSS FW doesn’t mean to have less profit, but somehow it’s interpreted as such. And there’s also our culture, backed by corps again, that tends to make us believe that everything profitable enough has to be corporate secret, and if not, others would take advantage of you business. That way of thinking really prevents for more FOSS adoption at the OEMs level. I don’t agree with it. It might be the presence or lack of some HW features might be inferred by the drivers/FW, but it doesn’t mean your competitors will know how exactly you provide such feature, and even less how to make it with the performance you do. And usually once released, you really want to show off your features, your innovation and so on, not keep it secret. So in general, really see no issue for OEMs not to offer drivers and FW as FOSS, even as free/libre SW.

        I can imagine OEMs offering FOSS drivers and FW, but that not being as convenient for the major players in the market, since that would risk their position in the market. Just a thought…

        Remember the lock-in mechanisms by the corps that feel being threatened if open sourcing dirvers… Some of which no longer say it out loud, but still think GPLed licences are a cancer…

    • Riley
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      110 months ago

      Hey just so you know in many people’s minds SW doesn’t stand for software.

      • @[email protected]
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        110 months ago

        Sorry about that. I was not aware of other meanings. I’ll try to remember to use the complete “software” word instead of its acronym I was used to since the 90s… Hopefully under the context what I wrote doesn’t get misinterpreted. Thanks !

  • @[email protected]
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    3110 months ago

    There’s plenty of videos on YouTube of people trying Linux for the first time, and it can be painful to watch how poorly they try to fix something or unintentionally break their system.

    That’s not to say windows is any better, because they’d do the same thing there.

    But people will only switch permanently if windows really falls off hard, which may or may not happen.

    You have to think of it like how people first learned to use a mouse and double click back in the 90s. It’s not immediately intuitive for everyone, they often have to start over.

    That being said, having a big OEM ship linux would do wonders, but Microsoft fights hard to make sure that almost never happens.

    • @[email protected]
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      310 months ago

      I don’t know if Microsoft still using restrictions in their license agreement,that only one system can be installed for OEM when deliverying devices to shops.

      • @[email protected]
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        210 months ago

        iirc due to some anti trust lawsuits, they cannot do that anymore.

        But it’s still easy to coerce OEMs to run Windows because they offer stuff like quick support and standardized IT support.

        If an OEM ships Linux, they don’t want to have to make an entire department to help troubleshoot the OS for users who will inevitably call for help. Ignoring them would only result in returns and loss of sales.

        I think some thinkpads actually do ship with some distro like redhat or opensuse as an option, but that’s because thinkpads are very popular in the business space which means lots of CS people use them, so it helps save some cost from a windows license that won’t get used.

        Like I said though, if windows really dives into the deep end, I think a potential market would open and some OEM will take a chance on it.

  • @[email protected]
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    2010 months ago

    That’s why I’d love to see more developers take another look at Linux.

    I’d love to see more developers taking a look at writing portable cross-platform code.

    • @[email protected]
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      110 months ago

      Super easy to do nowadays, everything I write is cross platform just by virtue of every programming language I use being that way provided I’m somewhat mindful about it

        • @[email protected]
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          110 months ago

          Python is the gold standard for cross platform interpreted languages

          If what you meant was are they all interpreted, no C# rust and python are the main 3 I use rn and are all cross platform

  • @[email protected]
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    410 months ago

    Why don’t more people use Linux?

    Because Linux breaks randomly, in many cases without user interaction. New driver update - external monitor stops working, games break, etc. Official desktop widgets - tend to break without any reason. Apps don’t follow desktop theme.

    I’m a software engineer and I work a lot and I want to spend my free time using OS, not fixing it. After my recent issues with graphic drivers I decided to buy a Windows PC just for gaming. I will stick with Linux for my home server and work.

    • @[email protected]
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      10 months ago

      For gaming, I honestly agree. Things are better with Lutris but running programs in their native OS is always going to be a better experience. Still, I think it’s very cool that you can run any of that in Linux. Valve is making some awesome progress with that…

    • @[email protected]
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      1010 months ago

      Interesting, I have a complete reverse of this story with windows. It kept breaking randomly until I had enough of it’s shit.

    • @[email protected]
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      210 months ago

      Commercial software compatibility has always been poor. It’s a classic way of locking users in.

  • psychOdelic
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    10 months ago

    totally honest, I had MUCH more trouble with windows AND Mac.

    First off, Linux is so easy to install, while Macos and windows have all that unnecessary stuff, like iCloud and one drive (don’t even get me started on one drive, its awful, nobody wants to use it, and where do you disable it? and why did it enable itself again?) Then theres the thing where you can’t install anything on Mac without having to change about 500 permissions. And the main reason why I switched, customization. Windows has none of that, you can change the color and that’s it. even the cursors often get reset when you restart. Macos is even worse in this regard though.

    I think the main reason, why people don’t switch is because our generation of teenagers is lazy, or they’ve always been, I don’t know.

    I know from friends, that they just don’t care about privacy or functionality and think I’m a conspiracy theorist. And generally they make fun of everything I say regarding this topic and don’t take it serious AT ALL.

    • Random Dent
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      210 months ago

      When using Windows, I occasionally encounter this weird phenomena that I never experience using any other type of OS, whereby it generates a problem that’s so stupid on such a fundamental level that there’s no way to really work around it.

      Like when I recently tried out Windows 11, I made a manual restore point in case it fucked itself up doing a big update. Which it did, and then when I tried to restore it I found out that it only keeps one restore point, and that after it broke itself doing the update it overwrote my manual restore point with its own automatic restore point, ensuring that the fuckup it just did was the only thing to restore to. I tried restoring it anyway to see what would happen, and it said it couldn’t do it but didn’t explain why.

      Like when an allegedly modern OS so utterly misses the point of both system restore and basic error messages, I don’t know what to do with it really.

    • @[email protected]
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      210 months ago

      Windows is not difficult to install, it’s just tedious and full of anti privacy options most people don’t care about

      Also don’t think 90% of people will ever install an operating system in the first place anyway

      Teenagers are not lazy and are definitely installing it have you seen the hyprland discord

      • psychOdelic
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        110 months ago

        have not, have only seen dozens of actual teenagers in real life.

        • @[email protected]
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          110 months ago

          I’ve seen maybe 4 people using Linux in real life and 2 of them are friends/family

          If you’re in any of the Linux related discords for long enough to pick up on it you’ll realize there are a lot of kids there

          • psychOdelic
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            110 months ago

            the only people I know, that “use” Linux, are those Instagram hackerman type of persons.

            • @[email protected]
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              210 months ago

              Pretty sure a lot of the people here are deathly allergic to anything meta. I know a couple people irl who just get on and use it also

    • @[email protected]
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      610 months ago

      A lot of people (regardless of age) have a very fuzzy idea (if at all) of what a file or a directory is. They wouldn’t know a operating system if it sat on their face.

      The only way to get them to use Linux is to switch the system on their computers. And they’ll probably manage just fine(after a bit of initial grumpiness), since most interfaces are pretty much the same anyway.

      But they’re never going to change on their own.