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- cross-posted to:
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- [email protected]
Stumbled across this quick post recently and thought it was a really good tale and worth sharing.
A couple of weeks ago, I saw a tweet asking: “If Linux is so good, why aren’t more people using it?” And it’s a fair question! It intuitively rings true until you give it a moment’s consideration. Linux is even free, so what’s stopping mass adoption, if it’s actually better? My response:
- If exercising is so healthy, why don’t more people do it?
- If reading is so educational, why don’t more people do it?
- If junk food is so bad for you, why do so many people eat it?
The world is full of free invitations to self-improvement that are ignored by most people most of the time. Putting it crudely, it’s easier to be fat and ignorant in a world of cheap, empty calories than it is to be fit and informed. It’s hard to resist the temptation of minimal effort.
And Linux isn’t minimal effort. It’s an operating system that demands more of you than does the commercial offerings from Microsoft and Apple. Thus, it serves as a dojo for understanding computers better. With a sensei who keeps demanding you figure problems out on your own in order to learn and level up.
Now I totally understand why most computer users aren’t interested in an intellectual workout when all they want to do is browse the web or use an app. They’re not looking to become a black belt in computing fundamentals.
But programmers are different. Or ought to be different. They’re like firefighters. Fitness isn’t the purpose of firefighting, but a prerequisite. You’re a better firefighter when you have the stamina and strength to carry people out of a burning building on your shoulders than if you do not. So most firefighters work to be fit in order to serve that mission.
That’s why I’d love to see more developers take another look at Linux. Such that they may develop better proficiency in the basic katas of the internet. Such that they aren’t scared to connect a computer to the internet without the cover of a cloud.
Besides, if you’re able to figure out how to setup a modern build pipeline for JavaScript or even correctly configure IAM for AWS, you already have all the stamina you need for the Linux journey. Think about giving it another try. Not because it is easy, but because it is worth it.
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I’ve been wanting to switch to Linux for years, but it was always too intimidating for me since I’m not a computer programmer. In the end, it took a roommate who was tech savvy to help install it and answer a few questions. Took about 10 minutes of his time but I still felt like a burden
See…
The RTFM condescending, contemptuous attitude doesn’t help.
A lot of us are not teens, or 20 somethings, and have other responsibilities and duties.
We just want the shit to “Just Work.” We don’t want to research why the last version upgrade broke the graphics driver, or why our printer doesn’t work anymore, or any of that stuff.
Granted, the distros that try to fix this have advanced light years over the last actual 20 years, but it’s still not good enough.
And yes, I have my “Compiled From Scratch Arch” membership card. Never again.
Have you tried driving without learning ?
Have you tried not trying to funny? Because you are not.
Sysadmin here. I work with linux every day, live and breathe.
And both my actual workstation and my home machine are windows.
Because for tasks that aren’t inherently problem-solvey, I don’t want to have to problem-solve.
For tasks that need tools and technical skills and poking it with a stick, absolutely do them on linux. Logfiles, strace, tcpdump, your programming language of choice, all the tools in the box.
But for file/print/email/office/internet/media/video gaem, lolno fuck that. Save your creative ingenuity and mental bandwidth for the things that actually need it; you don’t want to be reinventing the wheel every morning just to make breakfast.
For the mundane shit where you only care about the content, the UX on windows (or mac, for the people used to it) is just boringly unobtrusive, and thus the better choice.
That’s why I’d love to see more developers take another look at Linux. Such that they may develop better proficiency in the basic katas of the internet. Such that they aren’t scared to connect a computer to the internet without the cover of a cloud.
I worked at a company building Unix. Later, it built a few releases of a Linux distro too. The people there were proficient documenters and app dev; build, release and support (escalation) devs; and some kernel devs so blindingly smart it made us normies’ tired just trying to keep up mentally.
Everyone used windows.
“Whot?!?” Yes, windows. Building Unix - the Unix - and a Linux distro, these super-capable black belts of the OS (borrowing your term) should be in Korn all day long.
Windows. WinAMP. VanDyke. Mozilla.
These people have the skill for it, but their preference was for windows. Because it was bad, but consistently so and presented a unified force to cope around.
I’ve worked on Linux my entire career, having used Linux since 94. But aside from a short window in 96, I’ve also done it with windows.
Windows. Spotify. Putty. SeaMonkey.
Well android uses Linux I found out.
Yes, I think the biggest hurdle for Linux is the tech crowd giving it a reputation for being difficult
Worst take ever. Outside of Desktop, Windows gets dominated by Linux. Even on Azure, Linux is the number one OS over MS’s Windows Server. Windows is free on IoT and still Linux dominates. So what makes Desktop different? 30 years of Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy. All the OEMs have to invest into Windows because they have to take the volume licensing deal from Microsoft or be priced out. This ensures Windows engineering efforts for drivers, software, and testing. Because the machines were Windows, 3rd party hardware and software had to invest into Windows as well. When there is no vendor lock-in, Linux receives the money for engineering efforts and dominates Windows. Nobody complains about having Linux on their Smart TV. Right, because the money for engineering efforts are not forced to be put toward Windows. How many people are switching their Steam Deck to Windows 80%? 50%? 10%? 1%,? more like ~0.1% switch. The money is there to make a great experience and so there is almost no reason to switch. It’s only the tech nerds that are installing OSes. Average people don’t even know what Windows or Linux is. When Microsoft loses it’s lock-in strategy, Linux will take over. Nobody is choosing Windows for Desktop. It’s just what comes on the machine at the store.
I worry that for 3rd parties to put forth any effort, there needs to be incentives… which would be in the form of demand… which isn’t there yet because they don’t put any effort into it.
MS is playing a dangerous game (for them). If they turn the screws on users hard enough then Linux might gain enough market share for there to be real demand. I’m trying to get people to switch but the lack of third party support makes it a minefield sometimes.
for 3rd parties to put forth any effort, there needs to be incentives… which would be in the form of demand
I mean this is it. That’s why Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy has kept Windows dominant on Desktop. It guarantees money will be spent on Windows first and foremost for all these OEMs. Which guarantees 3rd party support.
If they turn the screws on users hard enough then Linux might gain enough market share for there to be real demand
Regular users wont switch to Linux until the machine comes preinstalled with Linux. Microsoft can screw over their customers and the average user will just have to take it. The average users just doesn’t know any better. Ultimately, average users need to see a machine they want to buy in a brick and mortar store. As long as Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy is in affect, the average user will never see a Linux machine, from your typical OEM, even to unknowingly consider. But, if Valve releases a Steam Console, they could put that machine in a brick and mortar store. Lots of regular average users would buy it for the gaming, not realizing it’s Linux. Eventually they would learn they could use the desktop mode in a pinch (same as what happened with the Steam Deck). When they realize the desktop mode works just as well as their PC, likely, they will stop buying a PC altogether. It will be like when PlayStation sold their PS2. Lots of people just bought a PS2 because it came with a DVD player. DVD player sales declined rapidly. If something similar happens with a Steam Console, Linux would have a market share 3rd party developers could not ignore. I don’t know if that would break Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy, but I think 10M - 20M Steam Consoles sold every year would definitely get the attention of 3rd party hardware vendors and software vendors for at least the gaming market. And all that would be supported on desktop Linux too; making it even easier for the tech nerds to switch. Then you are just waiting on the network affect to take off.
We will have to see, what unfolds in the next couple years.
Regular users wont switch to Linux until the machine comes preinstalled with Linux.
I think there is a share of enthusiasts who will be willing to give Linux a shot as Microsoft continues to turn the screws. I know someone with a steam deck that has been impressed with it and even uses discord on it from the desktop mode. Maybe not many regular users but a subset of more technical users who haven’t yet been driven to try. Add in those of us willing to suggest Linux to friends and family and then support them as “regular” users when they try to adopt it. There are also a number of smaller companies who are selling and supporting devices with Linux installed from the factory. There is a chance to start to tip the scales, maybe.
100% agree.
The incentive for consumer Linux is controlling the app store.
Google leverages its control of the app store to make money on Android. Valve has invested in Linux in order to have an alternate OS in case Windows becomes hostile.
Why don’t people use Linux? Fair question. It’s because people who don’t use Linux are stupid and lazy.
Wow, galaxy brain stuff.
It’s really the egos and superiority complexes of the Linux elitists that are preventing mass adoption.
And a distro that actually lets you use a UI for everything.
Nah. Most people who use computers would never interact with those folks.
It’s not installed by default and when things go wrong you need to fix it yourself.
People just want to use computers to do STUFF. They don’t want to think about the computers themselves.
Development led me directly to installing Linux because Windows is bad for dev…
I fell into the warm embrace of KDE and GNOME environments in 2022 and have never looked back.
I started using Linux as a liberal arts major in the late '90s. Both my grandparents (RIP) and my parents (partial RIP) kept having issues with Windows on their computers. I was constantly being called to help them with crap. 20+ years ago I asked if I could try something and they didn’t care, as long as it worked. Debian and XFCE. Configured their email, hooked up the printer. Suddenly the service issues went from several times a month to once every 5+ years. And 90% of those issues just was clearing out the printer queue. I have never once understood the LiNuX iS OnlY FoR suPer TeCH NeRDS bullshit.
Everytime I’d installed Linux, I would run into having to run/copy paste random scripts here and there without any clue what I’m doing. Then after a few months it’s total carnage and I end up just logging into Windows. It might be much better now with LLM’s though. Also last time I was using my pc mostly to play CS:GO on FaceIt while chatting on Discord, which I was not able to do on linux.
You can do both of those in linux now I believe.
You’re right in that case - most “granny” users just need a browser and maybe a printer. Don’t need Windows, you could probably run that on a Raspberry.
The catch is when they want more, like their VoIP App that only hat Mac and Windows installers, or some arcane HP scanner with 32 bit Windows 7 drivers. Or they are competent and want an actual full MS Office suite including Excel formulas and functions; Calc is still not on par. Or, kicker, if they actually need to exchange Office files with others without lossy conversions.
If you have other takes then let’s discuss here!
Well yes but also no. There are quite a few distros that are “minimal effort”, they just work for the average person without any more knowledge you’d need on Windows or Mac. The last part that’s still not so “minimal effort” is gaming, most things just work out of the box, some things don’t. Btw Android is Linux.
So I don’t think that the problem is that Linux needs a little more knowledge or effort, because it mostly doesn’t, but the fact that most people who would switch see a billion different distros and don’t know what to do. Having so much choice here actually hinders people from coming to Linux. Doesn’t mean it would be better with less choices, it’s just one of several reasons why we don’t see mass adoption.
Another reason is the outdated thinking that Linux is complicated to use (and this blog fuels just that).
I often see people saying Linux is difficult to install and use, and when people ask for more details it turns out they’re describing an experience from 15-20 years ago, and they haven’t tried using it since. There are several very easy distros around now.
Yep. Linux is as easy or often easier to install than Windows. The main difference is people rarely install Windows, it’s just there, by default.
The Big issue, I think, is the tyranny of the default.
The rest of the usability issues will get fixed with greater adoption rates if they come.
But yeah, once you get over the hurdle of going against the default, the deluge of choice is overwhelming, much like why Mastodon and Lemmy didn’t see huge usage spikes when Twitter and Reddit went to shit, but Bluesky did.
The reason is that Linux usually doesn’t come preinstalled. I’m pretty sure at least 50% of the users wouldn’t even notice they have Mint Cinnamon instead of Windows on their Laptops.
I’m 💯 sure at least 99% of steamdecks run the ootb steam Linux
I’m sure I would like Bazzite on my Deck. But I don’t use it a ton and Steam OS works fine. So I’d only install Bazzite if I was bored and wanted a project.
I see no need for anything but steamOS on my deck but i put bazzite on my desktop the other week. Best thing i have done.
I know a guy running windows on a steam deck. Absolutely mad
What a pervert.
That’s like buying a Ferrari and dropping in a Lada engine.
that is
ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTANG
I don’t use Linux. I’m here from /all. I last attempted Linux probably around 2006 or so. The biggest thing I remember was driver support being awful. I guess it’s a lot better now?
My biggest hurdle to making the switch is that it takes effort. It’s not because I’m lazy; it’s because I don’t see any need to put in effort. Because I already have an OS, and it works fine. I know that to some, particularly in this community, there are a lot of things about Windows to complain about, but the vast majority of users can’t come up with a list of things that bothers them about their daily OS. If my computer already had Linux on it, I’d probably feel exactly the same way.
I just made this same basic point in response to another comment, but this is exactly right. It takes effort to learn anything new, and that effort isn’t always worth it to people. But that alone doesn’t make using Linux “hard.”
Exactly, my wife struugles with tech. She hated windows and how it did unexpected things that made no sense. I put Linux on her computer, she doesn’t bug me with complaints now since it operates the same every day.
I did the same thing for my wife. She lives almost exclusively in the browser. I put her on the same atomic OS I’m using, and for her the experience is pretty similar to her previous Chromebook.
Similar : my spouse was complaining about how slow her laptop was and that she’d probably have to buy a new one. I popped a bootable Mint USB in and she was impressed that it was “like new”.
I left her on the bootable for a week as a trial then installed it to the HD. 99% of what she does is browser based anyway.
Yeah same kind of experience, on Windows 10 her laptop would barely run, it lagged so badly because it is a 2 core Celeron. On Linux it is actually peppy and she can run her zoom meetings and excel stuff, plus browsing. It is comparable speed to my new work laptop with 20 core processor running W11…that’s how bad WindowsOS has become
@clif @BCsven are you implying that Linux is not compatible with most things on winlol? I’ve yet to find anything that I need and is winlol only, everything either has a version on Linux or has a Linux-able alternative
There are many winlol-only things but none I need
For gaming, Linux
For office use, Linux
For media, definitely Linux…Not at all. It’s more of “I’m used to windows, change is scary”
There are still some things that are win/mac only and if you’re heavily invested in them it can be hard to migrate to Linux based FOSS alternatives (or, VM/WINE/etc). But, most “normal” (non-geek) people aren’t keen on throwing away all of their experience on one specific application to learn a new, different, one… Regardless of feature parity.
I haven’t looked in several years, but noob friendly CAD is one example. I ended up using browser based ones since I couldn’t find an easy offline one. “Easy” is the key here - there are pretty great FOSS CAD suites, they just aren’t super friendly to stupid people (me).
Though, that may have changed, if you’ve got recommendations please let me know.
@clif Linux Mint is a popular migration destination because of how close its UI is to Winlol, but KDE is a close UI too to winlol’s, as for the software, if possible, one can use Wine or a VM until they get used to native Linux tools, with a little research, one can easily find a good alternative to almost anything
And that’s all most people want from a computer, yet Windows always throws a curve ball at some point.
My home computers and servers are all Linux since 2017, even my work Laptop was because the CAD/CAM software had a Linux version. I have been running W11 for work lately and it is such a terrible user experience. I will be mid productivity mode and the Office Ai.exe kicks and and reduces my brand new machine down to a crawl speed. It happened way too many times and it does nothing to improve what I’m working on. I tried deleting the ai.exe and aimgr.exe, but those get reinstalled after an update, so now I have made two empty text files and renamed them to match the two files, this (so far ) has tricked MS into not reinstalling those files.
But there are so many other janky bullshit things that W11 does that I can’t believe a company the size of MS can release this stuff
Astounding. This is why I got away from sysadmin work. Dealing with Microsoft products kills my enjoyment of computing.
Not sure if this can help. Seems like you might have it covered for now. But, just in case, If you go to the registry key
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Runyou can add a key for the name of the executable that gets run,Ai.exeand the value gets set to another program you want to run. Maybe you can set it to empty. Haven’t used Windows for over a decade, but I do remember setting that value to open an nPipe for debugging with WinDBG.Thanks for the info. I will try this if Windows clobbers what I have now.
Tbh I just care about privacy and do not want surveillance on my system. If you don’t care about that (which I can understand because life is hard and energy is limited), then Windows or Mac is maybe perfectly fine for you. All I am saying is, if Linux would be pre-installed, people wouldn’t care to make a switch to Windows, they would just live with a perfectly fine OS and go on with their lives.
I was a Windows user for around 30 years and loved it. But I got so frustrated with Windows that I switched. My computer didn’t feel like I was the one in control of it anymore, and I hated that.
I’m very happy on Linux, now.
Yeah, the issues with Windows are mostly a ton of really small things. There aren’t too many major issues that will force you to switch instantly, and no one of the small things will make you switch because it’s easier to just deal with it and move in in that moment.
I can’t even remember what it was that made me switch about two years ago. It was Windows ignoring a setting I changed before when it updated. It just got really frustrating how little they care about what I want my system to do/look like. They only care about what they want, but it’s my machine! It all eventually pushed me over the edge, but most users aren’t tracking that.
I’m pretty convinced that most users would have a better time with Linux now though. In particular, the package manager makes not dealing with individual application updates and running random executable you find online such a better experience. As long as people are using a distro that suits their requirements, and not one that requires a lot of manual effort, it functions better than Windows. It isn’t Windows though, so they get annoyed that it doesn’t function identically to that shitty system they’re used to.
My biggest hurdle to making the switch is that it takes effort.
Thats pretty understandable honestly. If my old netbook wasn’t so bogged down from Windows, there’s a chance I wouldn’t have switched to Linux. In a way, I’m glad for it, but it woulda been easier if it just came with Linux preinstalled <3
The biggest thing I remember was driver support being awful. I guess it’s a lot better now?
In my experience drivers have been pretty solid… except for NVIDIA. People seem to either have 0 issues or tons. Fingers crossed the upcoming Nova+NVK driver combo brings a more consistent and stable experience for all :)
My first experience was from back then also. It is much easier today than it was back then. It drove me crazy around 2008 or whenever I was fiddling around with it but today I would say it is easier than windows if you have an open mind.
totally this!!! Most users just need a browser and an email client at best. They couldn’t care less about the OS that’s sitting on top of. If they could go to a store and see a $1000 laptop with Windows and $800 laptop with Linux being sold side by side, majority would pick the cheaper one if they could still get online with it.
I’d crank that up to like 80% Linux users somehow always seem to overestimate how tech savvy most people are.
I’d say 50% of users can’t tell you what an operating system is. maybe more. and ya’ll expect those people to be able to CHOOSE a Linux distro and actually install it. no way. that’s way way too much to ask of the average end user.
Jorge Castro of Universal Blue (Bazzite, Bluefin, Aurora) likes to say that normal people don’t install operating systems. And he’s totally right.
What issues are you all talking about? I m a Linux user for eleven years now, the only issues you may have with them are only in the beginning when everything is not installed or sometimes not everything is perfectly installed and set up, once you finish with that you may get bored by how extremely stable they are, you just do your work and that’s it, and they stay like that forever, the only reason people are using windows is because they are pre installed, that’s the only truth.
To be fair, i installed linux on an old laptop and i just cannoy get the wifi to be reliable. I found myself reading about the minutia of intel wifi drivers and how wifi works in detail just to try tonsolve this issue.
I outright gave up on getting a printer to work.
This is an unrealistic experience for most people who just need a tool that works. Life is too short.
To be fair, i installed linux on an old laptop and i just cannoy get the wifi to be reliable. I found myself reading about the minutia of intel wifi drivers and how wifi works in detail just to try tonsolve this issue.
I had this exact experience. I tried multiple distros too. In the end I had to go back to windows because that’s the only way the wifi worked short of replacing hardware and it just wasn’t worth that.
A 5 to 15 dollar USB dongle was too much for you? There used to be a time when people understood they would need to buy compatible hardware for the OS. We’re not just talking Windows to Linux here, this same thing happens between Windows versions. Imagine switching to MacOS from Windows or to Windows from MacOS. “Guess MacOS doesn’t work on my Windows hardware. Whelp, back to Windows.”
Or he could just go back to an OS that works.
Thrse are real issues that block adoption of linux on the desktop. The answer isnt buy different hardware, its “how do we improve on things like this?”
Or he could just go back to an OS that works.
Shocking, use the OS that is compatible with your hardware. If you are on XP or Win7 and you want to go to Win10, guess what you have to do. Make sure you hardware is compatible. Same difference. If you want Win10, and your NIC isn’t compatible, you buy a new NIC. Nobody seems to complain about that. People want MacOS, they buy new hardware, no one complains about that. But for some reason, with Linux, “this free OS better work work with my cheap Chinese network card or I’m going straight to the electronics store and buying a Win11 machine”.
A USB WiFi adapter was easily $100 at the time and besides, if I wanted to use dongles to achieve basic functionality I would have just bought an apple product.
Yep, makes sense. 1500 dollar Mac or a 100 dollar USB dongle. Logic checks out.
Little guys like this one were 5 dollars over ten years ago now. I know because this is the one I would tell folks upgrading from win7 or win8, to win10, to use when their wifi nic wasn’t supported. I also used them for my crypto miners.
There are thousands of distros out there, pick another, I m sure one of them will work with WiFi just fine
See, that’s an adventure for months of late night tinkering.
Or just boot Windows and it will auto detect everything just fine. Done and done.
Not everyone is an adventurer. Most people just want to get on with it.
Lmao, yeah I love living like Indiana Jones! get real dude, we speak about a couple of hours work and that’s it
when everything is not installed or sometimes not everything is perfectly installed and set up
I guess that’d be a major blocker for most people.
Correct, and it’s the same for any OS, and figuratively every user. The average user has no clue how to install an OS nor cares to do so. Few people switch the OS on their phone. Few switch to Windows on a Steam Deck. Nobody it trying out different OSes on their SmartTV. It’s the tech nerds that install OSes, they are the ones that switch. That’s why it’s always hilarious to read them complain about Linux needing to be made easy to install for the “average” user.
the only reason people are using windows is because they are pre installed, that’s the only truth.
This couldn’t be more true.
Sysadmin here. I use Linux a lot on the job and in my homelab, but it’s true, I don’t wasn’t firefighting exercises off the clock. I just want to use my computer. Also, my systems are used by the whole family, and they sure as hell don’t want to learn Linux and become IT zealots.
good take while I love Linux I must admit it has been quite the struggle sometimes. But everything worthwhile in life takes effort. It’s not everybody’s cup of tea and I like it that way actually.
