I mean I get it but generally you don’t eat fertilized eggs
You do if you have roosters
How many people do you think own roosters compared to the number of people who eat eggs? It’s gotta be less than 1%
Does the quantity of roosters determine the validity of the argument? How many fertilized eggs must be eaten to meet your metric?
Since I said people “generally” don’t eat fertilized eggs, 50% rooster ownership among egg consumers would qualify.
Balut is a popular dish all through the Pacific Rim.
So, for the purposes of this argument, according to your metric - 50% +1 fertilized eggs would then grant unhatched eggs the distinction of being alive and thereby now meat?
Wait, why does it feel like you guys are just agreeing with each other? I thought you two were gonna fight?
0/10 very disappointed in lemmy
Sorry to disappoint. Next time I’ll be sure to throw in a couple of insults and use the phrase “burden of proof” to really stir the pot
What? No, that’s not what I was arguing. I said most people do not eat fertilized eggs. That’s true even if some people do eat fertilized eggs. The proportion of fertilized eggs to unfertilized eggs does not affect the morality of eating either kind of egg.
The whole point of the post is whether eggs are meat or not. The discussion turned hypothetically to a fertilized egg or not being meat, and the answer being an unscientific yes. Your rebuttal was that most people don’t eat fertilized eggs, so therefore = not meat. I asked you how many eggs would have to be fertilized, to which you replied half of peopel would need roosters. Therefore, to conclude this absurd conversation, if 50% rooster ownership nets half of eggs fertilized + 1 eggs, makes them meat.
I think it’s pretty clear that this was silly, but the logic flows correctly.
No I don’t think that’s how the argument was meant to work. I think the point was that since most eggs people eat aren’t fertilised, the initial comparison fails down, but if most eggs were fertilised it wouldn’t. I’m not sure that’s a convincing position myself, but w/e. tbqh I don’t think most people would eat a fertilised egg… Like, you can really tell. I forget where I was going with this. Think I’m gonna go to sleep now. Goodnight.
generally
Those ones do it on purpose and are eating balut.
Yea just like Catholics don’t consider unfertilised human eggs to be humans
The Catholics are consistent this time
They don’t support birth control because of the potential, though, last I checked. Thank God my lunatic parents at least recognized that was too far
Eggs aren’t unborn chickens. They are the discarded menstruation of chickens.
I’d really like vegans to understand that.
I think vegans care more about the fact that chickens are kept to produce eggs than anything. On the other hand, there are also many vegans who aren’t ethically vegan, but rather are vegan as a result of an Avoidant Restrictive Food Intake Disorder caused by knowing how the sausage and eggs are made and being completely horrified by the idea in the same way many wouldn’t want to eat an eyeball or various other parts of an animal.
I don’t think vegans are against eggs simply because they are an animal “product”, they’re against eggs because of the factory farming methods used to obtain them.
I mean, ymmv.
There are definitely people who say they are vegans and still eat eggs. There are people who say they are for animal welfare and still eat meat, assuming it meets some personally established ethical standard. There are people who don’t eat eggs or meat entirely for religious reasons, but couldn’t care less about the conditions of factory farms.
There’s a certain terminally online kind of person who will assert “Vegans are too stupid to understand what I’m doing is okay, actually” but have only ever met other confused teenagers trying to rationalize their own life choices. And then there’s folks who simply can’t afford to eat eggs regularly, because their food bills doubled in price since the pandemic, and don’t keep them in stock.
The important thing is to find people to be mad at. Vegans-who-are-doing-it-wrong. Catholics-who-are-doing-it-wrong. CEOs of grocery chains who are gradually pricing the retail market out of staple foods. Terminally-Online-Lemmyites-who-are-doing-it-wrong. Asshole Reply Guys. Just find someone to hate and keep your hate pure.
beavers and capybara are classified fish by the Catholic Church
Water creature moment.
Hydrologic high ground
How about ducks?
no, but alligators and puffin.
my basic understanding is that people wrote intentionally advantageous descriptions of the animals when submitting them to the Vatican for approval or something. like they just stressed how much time the animal spends in water and not much else, and the pope wrote back saying “yeah that’s okay”
Iirc the capybara thing was a special dispensation to help out indigenous tribes in south America
“God makes an exception for you and your group, specifically.”
So they are … God’s chosen people?
Witches.
How do you know ducks are witches?
Who are you, so wise in the ways of science?
TIL eating beaver is approved by the catholic church
This is a good example of brain rot content
The post itself or the mental gymnastics of some religious folk?
The post itself, obviously. Even if you think every religious person om the planet is a braindead nutjob, I hope you would hold that position on the basis of real arguments, and have the literacy to reject shallow strawmen like this post.
If you are eating eggs that are unfertilized then the “chick” would not have been conceived and would not be considered a new life, and instead just be discharged ovum, and therefore commensurate with the catholic view of “life at conception”, and if you get your eggs from the grocery store, they’re not fertilized.
What if you’re just into eating Balut?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say most people not eating meat on Fridays aren’t eating
aboutbalut on FridaysE: autocorrect
…what?
Autocorrect, my bad. Should’ve said balut, not about
Super anecdotal: I once had a Filipino Catholic coworker with whom I went to lunch, and he considered balut to be meat.
if that’s the bear from jungle book, it’s definitely meat
No, that’s Baloo. A balut is a system or occasion of secret voting.
Thats a Ballot, a balut is a large room or chamber, usually used for storage, especially an underground one.
No, that’s ballot. The balut is the person who is paid to park cars at hotels and fancy restaurants.
No, that’s a valet. A balut is that thing clowns use to make dogs and flowers at children’s parties.
No, that’s a balloon. A balut is a bar of metal.
Isn’t the church quite clear about when life begins? At first breath iirc? Stillborn kids don’t get baptized?
No, Catholics are possibly the most consistent religion in unanimously agreeing life begins at fertilization. (Which, eggs you eat aren’t fertilized anyway.)
They don’t baptize stillborn “babies” because they don’t believe in baptizing dead people, as it’s just a body at that point, no longer a complete person. Plus they believe since there was no opportunity, there is a way to heaven for them in the afterlife.
I’ve only heard the “first breath” thing in a few modern sects of Judaism.
Our views on abortion are more shaped by our politics then religion, I’m sure some extreme parts of Judaism are against abortion but I don’t believe it has too much basis in Torah.
Fair enough, then the egg metaphor is fitting.
Edit: well, technically eggs are not fertilized. So no conception.
Jesus had no bio dad?
A lot of the eggs I get are fertilized (US, California), but maybe that’s because I tend to get “free range”. Can see the tiny embryo (~1mm) in a lot of them.
I’m pretty sure it was a thing that the most devout catholics are morally opposed even to birth control…
Yikes. Someone didn’t pay attention in school. They’re having a.fantasy gotcha conversation where they’re the hero, though…
My guy have you seen Lemmy
I’d think they’d just say “in this case yes”. Not every rule is an universal one
Or alternativel: “If you start pooping your children inside eggs before they are born, we want you to abort them”
I’mma need uhhhhhhh
BONELESS EGGS
Strawman time
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Just glad to see this shit being called out
It’s what Lemmy does best
This exchange would be very interesting if the person in question is into eating balut.
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Yeah, looks like a lot of motherfuckers don’t know how eggs work. Absolutely not a gotcha.
It’s about on par with the “every sperm is sacred” idea which to some extent is part of Catholic doctrine.
Man God gets quite irate over that.
Only if one gets wasted.
Let’s face it, if gotchas ever really mattered the Catholic Church wouldn’t exist. Too easy to hand wave any real argument.
The eggs we buy in supermarkets come from hens who have never seen a cock.
It’s basically bird menstruation in a shell.
Well now I’m just hungry for an omelette.
If you make it with ostrich eggs, is it called an omel?
Omelotte
Pet peeve - chickens didn’t menstruate, they have no reason to. They do however ovulate, which is where we get the eggs from.
Oh god…I need bleach for my eyes
Next explain why you can eat fish when you aren’t allowed to eat meat. It was always about money/scarcity/greed
Seriously speaking, does someone have an answer to the land animal meat vs fish thing? I’m curious now
It was originally the Latin word “carnis”. They invented the fast from meat specifically to mean giving up the best food of, like, beef and chicken. When translated into English, “meat” was the best word they had to refer to the concept of land animal meat.
When god flooded the world for 40 days and 40 nights to cleanse it of sin, the fish were entirely unaffected and thus still full of sin. So they deserve to be eatened.
But would they let you eat fertilised eggs?
You wouldn’t want to, but if you want to, ask for balut.
I wasn’t saying I wanted to, I was just asking if the Catholic Church would let one eat them on Fridays.
Some religions outright forbid consumption of balut altogether, so perhaps they wouldn’t?
It’s not a problem as long as the eggs weren’t incubated for too long. It will take for a while before anything visible developes
And otherwise it is just more proteins
Not related to this point but also fish isn’t meat according to them.
And just like the christians, you need to suspend belief in science to see any semblance of a point here.
Can we agree eggs are meat though?
No.
I guess if jizz isn’t meat, eggs aren’t either. I never thought about it this much.
they have had 2000 years to make up their minds on when life begins but 21st century verbal gotcha == disco pope
