I have been using Logitech peripherals for years. Logitech gear always just worked.
Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased. WTF?
Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.
This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.
What are the good options?
Also, if anybody sees how these changes could be benign, please let me know.
EDIT:
By popular demand:
The keyboard I bought that started this journey: MX Keys S
The key feature that first demanded cloud access: Swithing between computers, now it is requires it to adjust the receivers. I have both a Bolt and a Unifying receiver.
Mouse (actually a trackball) that now is requesting that I use a Chrome Browser to adjust it: M570
Software:
The Logi SetPoint Settings I open from Windows now requires you to log into your Logitech account to make changes to your Unifying or 2.4 ghz usb receiver. This link takes you to a screen that says Logi Web Connect. It does not work unless you use the latest version of Chrome, Edge, & Opera, but reccomends Chrome for the best experience.
Logitech + used to require this to enable options, but I don’t see it on my Windows computer anymore. It is still on my Mac, but upon opening it to confirm for this message, it seems to be announcing that it is now able to incorporate AI into everything I type. (ugggh)
Logitech devices do not need such drivers under Linux…
Really?
My Logitech mice won’t work, at all under Linux unless I go find a third party software to make them work.
While under Windows they just work, even without the Logitech config software.
Then what you bought is not a mouse, it’s a proprietary peripheral that emulates a mouse when you install its propretary drivers.
Never encountered a Logitech mouse or keyboard that didn’t work out of the box with Linux.
I have had to set them up on a windows box and then move them over.
Short fix is to dump Logitech, long term fix is to install Linux and still dump logitech
Keyboard wise? At this point, prices have dropped enough that there is no real reason to go to one of the major manufacturers for anything that isn’t disposable. And basically “all” of the smaller batch mechanical keyboards are dependent on QMK or VIA to some degree which means you can customize them on any machine that can run chrome.
For the logitech price point/build quality? Unless you know why you don’t want one, you can’t go wrong with a Keychron (https://www.keychron.com/). The price and build quality isn’t “the best” but it is very much on par with the logitechs and razers of the world and they are perfect for someone who just wants “a keyboard that works” or someone who wants to learn what they ACTUALLY want out of a keyboard.
Mouse wise? There are an increasing number of “third parties” but… they basically all suck unless you are going to go crazy and mod them. And while I think the firmware matters less in these cases, there are an increasing number of qmk/via mice but… they mostly feel “cheap” or like they are just proving the viability. I have a friend with a ploopy but even he doesn’t really recommend it. So… you are still more or less suck with logitech and razer and the like for that. But hopefully as those companies lock their hardware down more it will lead to something in between “here is a cheap no name ergonomic mouse” and “here is a five hundred dollar mouse”.
The Keychron K2 and K6 both look solid. Starting at $70 for a Bluetooth/wired mechanical keyboard, RGB backlighting, extra keycaps for Macs / OS toggles… there’s even a hot swappable variant for $10 more (or heck, on sale for $70), option for an aluminum frame… shame they don’t run on QMK.
Oh - turns out they have several keyboards that do run QMK/VIA, like the K6 Pro.
If I used staggered keyboards for anything other than gaming, or if I didn’t already have a wireless gaming keyboard, I’d be considering one.
Yeah. Keychrons are kind of a clusterfuck because they release like five limited runs every month. But… basically all of those are the same feature sets but might have slightly different internals based on whatever they bought in bulk the previous month. It DOES make figuring out what to buy kind of annoying but… logitech and razer have been doing that for years anyway.
Keychron’s relationship with QMK is a touch fraught. If they claim a wireless board supports QMK, it only truly supports it in wired mode. In wireless mode, they’re either using a secondary MCU or an off-license fork of QMK, as the mainline doesn’t support wireless for licensing reasons.
Out of curiosity, what is your non-gaming keyboard? Lot’s of fun stuff over at [email protected]
to add to the subject of gaming, i personally do not recommend using a keychron for gaming. the latency, at least the one i’m on (keychron C1) is quite a noticeable downgrade from the logitech keyboard i switched from, though at least it feels and sounds miles better than the logitech.
as a disclaimer, i am very sensitive to that latency since i’m a modern tetris player. it’s also way less noticeable in shooters and other 3D action games, so i guess for most people it’s fine?
for a gaming keyboard from a non-shitty company, you can’t get much better than a wooting.
Independent of Logitech and other HID makers turning to shit, I’ve been eying some open source / DIY mice (like the Ploopy) for a while. Seems like a fun project that also helps me keep control of my own systems. And it’d give me something to tinker with.
This looks very cool!
Ploopy and maybe a Corne keyboard are on my TODO list this winter
“The company to which I’ve always given my money because I trusted them to make good products has started taking advantage of my trust and is producing shitty products. How do I avoid this?”
Stop buying their products the moment they stop making good ones.
I feel your frustration, but I think you already knew the answer. Any workaround or jailbreak or open source firmware update would just be avoiding the problem, not fixing it. Stop buying Logitech products.
I procure for my company I am not touching Logitech anymore.
The way forward is to stop looking at those as “features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased” and consider them as “unlockables” where you have to pay again by handing over your personal info. Then stop buying their stuff, because it’s absurd to have to pay twice.
I prefer my keyboards and mice as dumb as possible. Preferably with cables, so I never have to worry about charging them.
What are some good dumb brands yall could recommend for keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals?
Gamestop seems to be releasing competitive options right now.
Logitech.
G305 for a “standard” mouse
MX Vertical for a vertical mouse
Both are wireless with a dedicated dongle and run off AA batteries. I hope that’s acceptable.G332 or G432 for a headset with decent sound and mic (that even works well over hearing aides)
Keyboard? I dunno, I went with a Das Keyboard Ultimate 4, I love my clickity clacky but it’s not a cheap recommendation
They’ve all served me well for 6 or more years with the exception of the MX Vertical (2 years so far) and are all still spotless. None show any sign of wear or tear and do their job well.
EDIT I see OP had bad experiences specifically with this brand. I’m sorry to see that, disregard my opinions, OP.
The cherry stream has all the keys I need, presses feel good, and it just works.
Anker has a nice “vertical” mouse that has a wired variant. For keyboards I usually just check for an obscure Chinese brand
I used to love Anker, but after the performance of their MagSafe batteries and recent recall, I’m hesitant to recommend them anymore 🤷
That’s fair.
Ducky Keyboards are pretty good (but ex)
I’ve been using a Dell keyboard I got at goodwill for $4. It’s great.
I love Zowie mice because their shapes are incredible and they’re built like tanks. One of mine is 15 years old and I still use it for work.
I picked up a wireless Cooler Master mouse on impulse for $20 from a bargain bin and it’s … Actually okay. The software doesn’t even need to stay running. You open the util, change the settings, close it, and that’s it. Downside is the cable… While it is technically USBC, they’ve done that thing where the port is recessed in a specifically shaped divot that only their cable will fit.
stop looking at those as “features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased”
Seriously.
Maybe I’m an old timer but my idea of extra features on a mouse or keyboard are simply more inputs: more mouse buttons or wheels, more keys on a keyboard (like media keys). At most that just requires additional hardware, but nothing my OS can’t handle on its own.
I still have a small fleet of M570 trackballs in service, I keep having to swap out the switches but what else is my soldering iron doing, amirite? My keyboard is from Cooler Master, a Masterkeys Pro M White LEDs, and they never made bloatware for it. The lights are configurable from the keyboard itself. That’s the kind of thing I look for.
Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased.
What are you talking about? Which keyboard, which mouse, which features, and which “internet accounts” are they requiring?
Also, Logitech still distributes the older software and it still works for the mice that it used to work with. My MX Vertical works with Logitech Options or the new Logi Options+ software, for example.
Did you try using that software with your new peripherals?
You can find the list by device at https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024361233--Software assuming this isn’t from their gaming line or something. In that case, go here instead: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/categories/360001764393-Gaming
Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.
I highly doubt that the mouse and keyboard cannot be used without Chrome.
Due to security concerns, Firefox did not implement the WebSerial API that’s most likely used to configure your mouse locally. Chrome did. It’s therefore completely reasonable that you would not be able to configure your mouse from Firefox.
That API is also supported by Edge and probably by most Chromium-based browsers, like Brave, the “Ungoogled Chromium,” etc… If you have one installed and it doesn’t work, you can probably change your user agent to trick it into thinking you’re running Chrome as a workaround. Most likely they only tested with Chrome and therefore only say they support Chrome, but don’t actually use any Chrome-exclusive functionality.
This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.
That’s a bit of a leap.
If you use Firefox for browsing and only use this Chrome to run this tool to configure your keyboard and mouse, then even with cross-site cookies and so on unblocked, none of that will be visible from the other browser. So this makes you more isolated, not less. Having it in a browser app instead of a desktop app gives you more protection, not less.
If a company can provide a browser app to do everything a desktop app could, then they can speed up development without having to use something like Electron to distribute their app. And there’s even less friction than Electron because their don’t have to check for updates / require users to install the latest version manually, because they can just always serve the most recent one from the site. As a user, you can probably install the tool locally if you want (it’s likely a PWA) but you don’t have to, meaning you get less software installed on (or worse, constantly running in the background) on your machine.
I added details to the OP
Thanks for the comment. I see no legitimate reason that I am shelled out of a program running on my computer to an interface where I have to log into a cloud service to adjust ANYTHING on my mouse or keyboard.
It’s unfortunate, really, but there’s only 1 good answer: vote with your wallet.
Research before buying and be thorough. There are companies that don’t do this yet and you could build your own peripherals, there’s some nice DIY kits out there.
Just don’t buy this crap. IMO the only way this’ll change is if it hurts them where they feel it.
I recently bought a nice MX series Logitech KB and a mouse that will pair with 3 devices, also Logitech. After seeing how terrible the software is, failing so hard as to temporarily disable the keyboard, repeatedly, I returned both.
My best advice is to either try to use them entirely without the software and all its customizations or sell your hardware, buying something better.
I’m sorry friend.
I use a Logitech mouse and do not have the problems you are talking about.
It may be possible it has features you don’t know about that are only enabled with the software. I have a Logitech mouse but only download the software because there was a macro fix for a broken clicker.
Me either. I have a G502 and I have the G Hub app to control the features(DPI, button assignments, RGB), but I’ve never needed an account to use it.
My G503 started requiring the Windows app to set any other RGB than rainbow patterns.
I had it set to off, it used to store on the mouse, now I need to install and run Windows to have it not flashbang me.
I used black tape. I don’t recommend this dumb thing to anyone, anymore.
That is still an option, but there is a tradeoff. There is a button in the software to enable on-board memory mode.
You lose all your key assignment controls and fine-tuned DPI settings, but it stores on the device. If you want to have those features available, the mouse needs some software on the PC to talk to for more fine-grained control.
That’s the thing, I used to be able to set profiles, set what the buttons do as well as the DPI in each profile and their colour, and it used to store in memory.
They removed it. You need this application for it, now. Or think it makes sense all of this can’t be stored in memory. Point is still that the only colour setting without this is bright rainbow patterns.
Good recommendation.
I’d be stuck in the ASUS ROG bloatware environment with BSODs were it not for G Hub! Great app.
You need to share some context for that statement lol. What are you talking about?
G Hub is an open source controller for GPU/CPU.
My ASUS Republic of Gamers laptop constantly BSOD’d with the issue being related to Asus’s proprietary “Armoury Crate” suite of applications. These applications are terrible, buggy bloatware.
Removing all traces of “Armoury Crate” from my system and using G Hub to replace it ended the BSODs I was receiving without sacrificing any functionality.
I use my 602 (the wireless one) on linux with an open-source mouse app called Piper. Does everything GHub can do - at least as far as my needs go.
Okay lemme check this out and see if this can replace my black tape.
Good luck, my friend!
Yeah, I’d like to know the specifics, too. My Logi mouse still uses the same application (although they did update terms recently) and while they’ve added some AI shovelware to it the mouse stil remembers its shortcuts with that thing off and I haven’t noticed any changes to how the application is put together.
It’s entirely possible the application is a Chromium-based browser thing, but in any case it still doesn’t require a login (although it does support one) and it will run offline.
Don’t get me wrong, Logi’s approach to this, along with a lot of other hardware manufacturers, sucks really bad. I do appreciate Microsoft, of all people, recently starting to standardize RGB controls, at least. It’s still wonky and interacts weirdly with some third party software, but it’s a start. I don’t need twenty different apps to keep glowy lights and saved shortcuts going.
I added details to the OP
Oh, cool. My current device uses Logitech Options+, which is not the same as the old G Hub and is not the same as what you’re describing.
Which honestly, before we get into the mandatory login and everything else, begs the question… why does Logitech need three different multi-device software hubs? What the hell?
It’s not (just) that manufacturers are trying to mine all this bloatware for data, it’s that most of them are absolutely terrible at making software in the first place.
Could you remap the keys with AHK?
Woah, can you elaborate on this please? I haven’t heard of this, and we use a lot of these devices at work. Which devices are affected? What’s the software/chrome thing?
It’s probably going to a web interface for RGB and maybe mouse sensitivity instead of special software.
Not sure why it would require Chrome to do so, but that doesn’t mean it’s constantly talking to Chrome when you use it either.
It doesn’t seem like we’re getting all the information
I first noticed the requirement to make adjustments via the cloud when I bough new keyboards that could easily switch between different computers. They use the new BOLT rather than he old Unifying Receiver. I wrote it off as a lazy way to do that feature, but OK. It was not the main reason that I purchased the keyboards, but it was one of the reasons, but I can live without it.
I was using the keyboards without the account.
Then it got too cumbersome and I established the account.
Today, I tried to adjust the settings of one of my mice which still uses the unifying receiver. It took me to the account somehow. But it would not let me log into the account and make the changes because I am not using the latest version of Chrome (I was using Firefox). (Note it did not say a Chromium browser, but rather the Google owned product).
I don’t see how any of this requires communication with a cloud server.
What’s the name of the software? Is this Logic Options +?
I added details to the OP
It sounds like setpoint is a pretty old software. Can you use Logi Options+? I was able to install that one and skip the login step.
I will try this
I’ve done a lot of de-enshitification in my digital life over the past year, most recently by de-google my phone. I’m going to be honest: It’s not easy, nor convenient, and a lot of the time not cheap. You really have to go out of your way to get what you want, sacrificing at least something a long the way (features, usability, etc). It takes quite a bit of desire and determination to move away from the modern garbage that these companies shove your way, and I’m honestly not sure if it’s worth it for the average person because of the massive amount of effort that it takes.
All of the above is to say that if you really want to avoid enshitification you’re gonna have to make changes, such as buying a different set of peripherals for your pc, and that it’s not gonna be easy. The real question is: is all of that work worth it for you?
For me it 100% has been.
I think the mice and keyboard requiring “Chrome” is actually due to WebHID. WebHID is only supported in Chromium browsers. Now here’s the fun part, this thread has VIA mentioned a couple times and even though VIA/QMK/ZMK are FOSS, the usevia.app website requires a, you guessed it, WebHID capable browser.
That said, don’t use Logitech keyboards. Sell it to a sucker on local and buy any of the above compatible keyboards instead. Drop CSTM, Luminkey, Keychron, Akko, QK NEO, CK Bakaneko, there’s probably couple more that are affordable and quality. Just don’t fall for GMMK, Ducky and other pseudo-gaming crap. Also visit [email protected] and ask questions.
Not sure about your trackball problem.
If it runs QMK I would port to vial over via any day of the week, cannot stand via. Granted I need to run the app when I want to adjust the key map (and only then), but it removes the need for WebHID or any similar problems. I have been able to replace my custom mapping and macros then compiling my own custom QMK firmware and uploading it to the keyboard workflow with live editing of the map and macros.
Just here to back you up on this. All solid advice.
I’m going to assume you need to use Chrome to set up the dongle because Firefox still doesn’t support Bluetooth web APIs.
Logitech G devices with the Lightspeed dongle don’t require setup (they’re all uniquely paired from the factory) and will work without the G Hub software. The software itself, if you do want it, works offline without an account.
This is assuming you don’t want to move away from Logitech entirely of course.
